READ MORE: BD-P1000, Blu-Ray, Hands-On, Home Entertainment, Samsung, TOP
Samsung launched its BD-P1000 Blu-ray player earlier this morning and I feel I need to put my cards on the table. I?ve been watching the stars and I have a gut feeling that HD DVD is going to lose this bout, friends. It will not disappear completely, but it will be an also-ran down the line. Because the electronics market runs so quickly now?stuff disappears faster they can pump it out in Taiwan. UMD is off the shelves, Zip drives gave up the ghost, and thanks to Google, Microsoft Office might be getting consumptive pretty soon. The more things change, however?
Samsung has produced a very interesting product. The BD-P1000 is a large, healthy device with a 20 second BRD load-time and a crisp, clean picture. On a full 1080p set, the picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious. Whereas our experience with Toshiba?s offering was sub-par, the brief time that we were able to spend with the BD-P1000 proved two things: Samsung knows their shit and the BR is probably the horse to bet on.
The card reader doesn?t do very much except display still images at HD quality. It?s a nice addition, but nothing to write home about.
Feel free to flame me in a year when HD DVDs become the reigning king, but BR is backed by Samsung and Sony as well as a few other players. HD DVD gets lip service, but I don?t see much else coming out of that camp except for computer peripherals, which means HD might make a good backup medium down the line. In terms of usability and genuine content, however, BRD is probably the winner.
We?ll be getting a player next week, but until then, let?s mull over the various possibilities for the two formats and see what we, the Gizmodo quorum, feel.
1080i vs. 1080p was a wash. Much ado has been made of the fact that Blu-ray players can output 1080p resolution while first-generation HD-DVD players, namely the Toshiba HD-A1 and its ilk, can output "only" 1080i. I've said before that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p sources on a 1080p HDTV, and after the following test, I feel even more confident that 1080p output capability is overrated.
Using the same two players hooked up in the manner described above, I put a Memento Blu-ray disc in each and set one to 1080i mode and the other to 1080p. I chose one of the few scenes with a lot of motion--Leonard's final drive back from the vacant lot to the tattoo parlor--where interlaced artifacts from 1080i, such as jagged or moving lines, should be more visible. Bouncing back and forth between the 1080i and 1080p versions, I could see no differences whatsoever. From the white lines dividing the street to the buildings and the parked cars alongside the road flashing by, to close-ups of Leonard and his wife (Jorja Fox), the two looked identical. I can imagine material that might show more of a difference, such as sporting events with lots of camera movement, but it wasn't there in the scene I watched.
Those reading this thread have heard me say repeatedly that 1080i vs 1080p outputs are no different. IVTC de-interlacing ensures you get the progressive picture diplayed on your screen.
Not the bottom of the review where the load times are discussed. I've heard much ballywhooing about load times and the reality is both players are pretty close.
he picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious
doesn't mean much to anyone. I want some real reviews to start coming out. Put the thing through its paces, and give me indepth information about PQ, sound, navigation, options, etc. So far I have read one review of TFE, which was not so great, and this quazi-review-thing, saying it tasted like a fresh-baked pizza...err, I mean looked like a fresh-baked pizza (???)
Oh so those slow buttons are suddenly going to speed up when the "Official" launch date hits. Ohh gotcha..thanks for the heads up. 8)
Yeah will see who gets got.
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The sluggish buttons come from more than one person. The slow menus come from more than one person. Calling Robert's accuracy into question is silly you can neither prove nor disprove his statement.
Good, who are they?....Waiting?....Still don't see proof...
What is silly is you just proved my point that your statement regarding shipped HD DVD units was crap. Gotcha!
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Regarding TFE. Did I link to my own personal site or a 3rd party site that I have no affiliation with. Just because the results don't jive with your RDF doesn't mean they are false.
Yawn. It's always "wait for this ..wait for that" I've clearly stated the issues with the Sammy that I expect some will get fixed. You continue to make excuses and denigrate legit reviews because they don't fit in your rose tinted world.
No, no, no. I'm not denigrating any legit review from Hidefdigest. On the contrary, I really like the site as it provides good balanced reviews as we saw with TFE review. I just provided the quotes from the review that clearly went against the "BDA getting aced" spin you tried to claim. Yes, he said had some somewhat critical things to say about the Samsung which is great, that's how a product may improve on any perceived or subjective shortcomings, however what is interesting is that he predicated his main critiques with "However, make no mistake, this is a good-looking picture if you're not too critical." And herin lies the problem, your incessant jadedly critiques with anything in regards to Blu-ray that borderlines straight up hostile negativity/falsehoods. How else does "BDA gettin aced" comments supposed to be interpreted?
Overall I found the review balanced, and overall positive. The only "rose tinted world" I'm living in is one that is realistic in the fact of majority support in all facets--CE, IT, and Hollywood.
Within reason. Although HD DVD has half the studios I read a blurb that stated these studios they do have enjoy a disproportionate amount of hit moves. The combination of Warner, Paramount, Universal and New Line have created a rather larger group of popular movies.
Let's be honest while Blu-Ray gets to add a couple of notches with MGM and Lion's Gate truth is neither studio has really been a huge factor in recent years. MGM's value is basically their back catalog of stuff. If Disney comes aboard next year (and they should) I view that as more important than getting MGM or LSG.
But you laud the Playstation 3 as some sort of monumental achievement We'll see. Frankly at twice the price and %80 of the features the Sammy player falls short of expectations IMO.
Oh, it adds another notch with Disney, make now mistake. Disney is Blu-ray, and in no way HD DVD officially despite your hopes in a random statment made by Iger months ago. Now there hasn't been anything substantial in regards to this statment, has there been? Nothing coming to fruition in this regard,...what makes you think that next year Disney will all of a sudden support HD DVD with the measely number of units of hardware sold? Do a little more thinking and less hoping, and you should find the answer.
Lets be honest, Blu-ray has the majority of Hollywood studio support, not half.
I am not buying the whole Samsung slow button/menu thing. Two reviews (the TFE and the cnet one) both mention good responses compared to Toshiba. The only "negative" was in the cnet review:
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From a standby state, it took 24 seconds from the time I pressed Open/Close until the disc drawer actually opened to accept a disc
But then he goes on to say:
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Responses were livelier. While the Toshiba occasionally wouldn't respond to commands or would take a long time to provide feedback that I'd issued one, the Samsung's responses were as quick as I expect from consumer electronics devices.
I think the Samsung is winning in the usability argument. The whole load time thing is a wash thought:
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From a standby state, it took 24 seconds from the time I pressed Open/Close until the disc drawer actually opened to accept a disc. After I inserted Memento, it took 58 seconds from the time I closed the drawer for the disc's menu to appear. During much of that time, an all-too-familiar Windows or Linux-style hourglass occupied the screen, along with Samsung's load screen; happily, there was no unskippable promotional stuff on the disc. We timed the Toshiba at 90 seconds to load most discs after being turned on, but that was before a firmware upgrade that reportedly cuts load times down quite a bit.
So interesting times ahead. I look forward to some heads-on reviews of teh Toshiba (firmwared up) vs the Samsung.
Those reading this thread have heard me say repeatedly that 1080i vs 1080p outputs are no different. IVTC de-interlacing ensures you get the progressive picture diplayed on your screen.
This can be true with background processing. The video you are looking at is highly compressed so that will hide detail differences and both interlace and progressive scans are playing at similar frame rates on the television which reduce their difference.
In a pure sense interlaced and progressive do look a lot different. Which is why they came up with progressive scan video in the first place.
Its fact that interlaced will have less vertical resolution than progressive if de-interlaced at the same frame rate.
I wonder too if Toshiba could be using faster frames rates. Using the increased temporal resolution to make up for loss of vertical resolution when de-interlaced at the same frame rate as progressive.
Everything's going to suffer from first gen symptoms.
I've got a first-gen Panasonic DVD recorder deck, and that takes forever to open the draw from standby. Also, the UI on the thing was designed by a moron...
The next-generation disc formats are here--and so are hints of where the format war is going.
Melissa J. Perenson
Tuesday, June 20, 2006
A funny thing happens in a format war: At some point, the theoretical spec one-upmanship gives way to tangible reality--what the rival products are delivering, today.
After looking at the initial wave of products from both fronts, I have a few thoughts about where the format war is heading. The first products deliver on their promises of outstanding high-definition video (Toshiba's HD-A1 and HD-XA1 HD DVD players and its Qosmio G35-AV650 laptop, plus more than 25 HD DVD movies from Warner Brothers and Universal) and high-capacity, rewritable disc storage (Pioneer's BDR-101A, Sony's AR Premium VGN-AR19G notebook equipped with a Blu-ray player/burner). I'm less intrigued by the actual products than I am by what they say beneath the surface about the two warring formats.
High-Def Video: A Capacity Question?
After debuting in fits and starts, and after both formats' encountering delays due to issues surrounding the AACS (Advanced Access Content System) copy controls, HD DVD is still enjoying a slight lead to market on its rival. HD DVD came out in late April, and even though player supplies continue to be tight, new titles are steadily streaming out every week.
Meanwhile, Blu-ray has faced a few additional post-AACS setbacks--although not quite as many as I've seen inaccurately reported around the Web. Sony Pictures pushed its content launch to June 20 after Samsung announced a change in release date for its $1000 BD-P1000 player, from late May to June 25. However, both of those launches remain on schedule, the vendors claim. Jim Sanduski, Samsung's senior vice president of marketing, says, "We'll be in more than 2000 storefronts at launch, and we will have multiple units available at each of these locations. Will we sell out? I hope so. We are launching with more storefronts and more quantity than Toshiba."
Meanwhile, Pioneer shifted its planned Blu-ray player from an early summer launch to September--when the product does launch, though, it will be at $1500, $300 less than the price the company announced back in January at CES. And Sony Electronics has adjusted the expected July release of its $1000 BD-SP1 player by a few weeks. According to a company spokesperson, the move is a strategic one, to coincide with the company's August launch of 1080p televisions and its push to educate consumers about Blu-ray Disc at retail outlets nationwide.
I don't expect that we'll see dramatic, overwhelming differences in image quality between HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc movie content. I do expect it to be tough to isolate which format is superior for delivering video, given the number of variables that come into play--including choices in the video codec, bit rate, and encoder used, not to mention whether you're viewing the output over analog or HDMI, on a display capable of 1080i or 1080p.
We'll probably see subtle differences. Sony plans to encode its first generation of discs in MPEG-2, while Warner and Universal's HD DVDs are using the VC-1 or MPEG-4 AVC codec. RCA's and Toshiba's HD DVD players output at 1080i (even though the movie discs are 1080p), while the first Blu-ray players from Pioneer, Samsung, and Sony all output at 1080p.
I hope to see the same film released on both HD DVD and Blu-ray, at different bit rates and using different codecs. Only then will it be clear, visually, whether Blu-ray's greater maximum capacity of 50GB for dual-layer discs provides a tangible advantage. (HD DVD currently tops out at 30GB for a dual-layer disc; Toshiba raised the possibility of a 45GB triple-layer disc last summer, but according to the DVD Forum it has not been discussed, let alone formally added to the HD DVD spec.)
The rival media's physical storage constraints have the potential to be a greater issue in this struggle than many observers have considered up until now. Before HD DVD's launch, I had privately heard rumblings of studio concerns about HD DVD's lower capacity.
Now that I've taken a closer look at the first eight HD DVD movies I received from Warner Brothers and Universal, I can understand why. None of the eight titles could fit on a 15GB single-layer HD DVD, and half came within a mere 5GB of maxing out a 30GB dual-layer disc--even though all relied on the latest, more efficient video codecs (VC-1 and MPEG-4 AVC). The movies were The Last Samurai (which topped out at 27.3GB), Mel Brooks's Blazing Saddles (25.4GB), The Phantom of the Opera (24.8GB), Jarhead (24.7GB), The Bourne Identity (22.7GB), Serenity (19.6GB), The Fugitive (18.2GB), and Doom (16.5GB).
Granted, this is a small, random sampling, but the results nonetheless surprised me, considering that I had for so long heard HD DVD supporters say that even 15GB would be roomy for high-def content. Instead, it seems that HD DVD content is, in many cases, barely squeezing onto 30GB discs today--and the tight space leaves little breathing room for the interactive-video future that Hollywood's creative minds will dream up down the road. All of the titles I saw are first-generation; not surprisingly, their menus and level of interactivity are basic and do not reflect the complexity I expect to see from both formats in the near future. Plus, the existing extras don't take full advantage of the formats, nor were they created natively in high-definition, with high-def, wide-screen presentation in mind. And the soundtracks are more limited, typically only today's 5.1-channel sound, with just one audio commentary instead of multiple commentaries and elaborate features.
Imagine what an innovative director like Peter Jackson might have done with the on-set documentaries and featurettes for his The Lord of the Rings trilogy, had everything been filmed with HD DVD or Blu-ray Disc in mind. Something tells me that a 30GB disc wouldn't come close to being enough, and that a 45GB disc (assuming one does come to market) might get a bit snug--even if one accounts for future improvements and efficiencies in compression and disc authoring techniques.
How much space Blu-ray content will consume remains to be seen; the first titles from Sony are beginning to ship this week, and although none of them will be on 50GB dual-layer discs, other titles will ship on 50GB discs later this summer, according to Sony. But I can't help but think that this format's greater capacity will serve it well over time. That said, I'm not convinced the PlayStation 3 will be Blu-ray's trump card. Sony said nothing at the E3 Expo in May that makes me think it is truly positioning the PS3 for home-theater buffs who want a Blu-ray Disc player that's cheaper than a stand-alone box. And for those consumers who do invest $599 in the premium PlayStation 3 with HDMI output, the machine's primary purpose will likely be for playing Gran Turismo HD and other launch game titles, not for watching Hitch in high-def.
Recording
The advantage in recording is, for now, clearly with Blu-ray: Vendors in this camp are first to market with disc burners for PCs, as well as first to release mobile burners for notebooks--and the format has the higher maximum capacity. PC Blu-ray burners are shipping from Pioneer and I-O Data, with others soon to come; this month Sony is shipping its aforementioned AR Premium Blu-ray laptop, as well as its VAIO RC series of burner-equipped desktops starting at just $2150--not overly outrageous considering that a stand-alone PC burner is priced at $1000.
Officially, the HD DVD camp remains mum on the status of PC burners. Since media was introduced at Computex in Taiwan last week, and since RiData just announced that its HD DVD-R media will ship in July, one might think a burner isn't far behind. The only news from the show, however, consisted of Toshiba's display of a slimline burner for notebooks, the SD-L902A; the company offered little there in the way of specs, pricing, or timing, let alone a demonstration of the drive's readiness (and it hasn't revealed anything since). From the get-go, the HD DVD camp's stated focus has been on the home theater playback experience (with PC movie playback coming in second, and recording not even on the road map). The lack of recording capabilities restricts HD DVD to prepackaged Hollywood content; no aspiring Spielbergs can edit their own high-def films and burn them to disc. It also limits HD DVD's viability as a data storage medium.
Price
No question: HD DVD has the edge in price. RCA's and Toshiba's players start at a highly accessible $499--if you can find them.
The cheapest stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player will be Samsung's $1000 BD-P1000, due out this month. Sony's BDP-S1 will also be $1000 when it ships in August, and Pioneer's Elite BDP-HD1 will be $1500 when it debuts in September. Sony's $499 Sony PlayStation 3, due in November, will be the least expensive player of them all; however, that model won't have an HDMI output, so you won't be able to display all-digital 1080p content. The $599 version will have HDMI, at least. Nonetheless, PlayStation 3's impact as a Blu-ray Disc player may not be as far-reaching as some observers might think; I found it curious that at E3 Sony made no mention of what kind of remote control it will offer with the PS3, and I'm not fully sold on how well the PS3 will serve as a multipurpose entertainment device.
Of course, in this nascent market, one might argue that the early adopters shopping for high-def players won't be dissuaded by a $1000 price tag. But I think that Blu-ray Disc's higher cost could hurt it, unless Blu-ray player manufacturers can adequately convey to consumers that their devices deliver enough value to justify being at least twice as much as HD DVD players.
The AACS Wild Card
Forget that Blu-ray has PlayStation 3 on its side, and that Intel and Microsoft have thrown their collective weight behind HD DVD. Forget that high-definition televisions are still gaining traction, albeit with increasing speed, among consumers. Forget that HD DVD and Blu-ray are both, really, formats in their infancy, both trying to claw their way to dominance to succeed DVD--and to avoid the sad fate of their digital audio format cousins, SACD and DVD-Audio.
For now, both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD are hampered by the fact that AACS has yet to finalize its managed copy component, the most critical aspect of the spec that remains unfinished. Without a final AACS spec, living-room high-def recorders can't proceed to market, and neither can devices that are designed to take advantage of legally copying and moving content from one disc to another--or to another device, for that matter. Original estimates put AACS's final spec as coming out in May; we're already well into June, and still there are no updates.
Until players can be manufactured to take advantage of everything from media servers to copying content, the first high-def video players from either camp should have limited appeal. I have no doubt that these players, be they Blu-ray or HD DVD, will deliver enticing high-def images. If all they do is play back content, however, they're missing a core part of the innovation that Blu-ray and HD DVD have the potential to deliver.
This is a well researched and written article. I myself will own both Blu-Ray and HD DVD. I champion HD DVD though because I believe it
offers the best legacy support and meets the needs of consumers and producers alike.
One interesting thing about the article. While I normally would be concerned with the 30GB capacity of HD DVD I don?t worry about that and that?s because HD DVD uses the newer high efficienty codecs I expect that the size of movies will decrease and their quality will increase. Case in point Serenity is a new movie thus it was filmed on the latest technology. This film is often lauded to be the best quality HD DVD that you can buy now and it was one of the smallest films on your list. Thus we know that proportionally size does not equate to quality on a linear scale. We must take into account the Master and then the prowess of the encoding engineers.
30GB will never allow producers to be lazy but it will be enough for those producers who desire interactive content and copious extras to reach their creative apex. Love to read more from you about the subject. Regards.
Universal Studios Home Entertainment seems to be pulling no stops with respect to its support for HD DVD format, with new titles added to the September HD DVD release slate.
Words can barely describe how ugly things have been over at AVS since the Sammy BD player has been announced. I think Sony has majorly screwed up by going with MPEG2 on SL discs.
This is an error that they better rectify quicly. Samsung is taking returns because people are unhappy with the movie quality.
Well... I've had my first experience with Blu-ray Disc, and Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. For the record, I have four titles on hand... The Fifth Element and The Terminator (from Sony and MGM) and Lord of War and Crash (from Lionsgate).
You know how I keep saying that these formats are being rushed to market about a year before they're ready? And you recall how hard I was on the HD-DVD camp for their klutzy launch and buggy hardware? And you know how I said that Blu-ray Disc looked like the superior format, at least on paper? Well... unfortunately, the Blu-ray camp has dropped a dud with their big launch too. Every bit as klutzy as HD-DVD. Think Clark Kent klutzy, or Gerald Ford klutzy, or Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford klutzy.
Let's start with the Samsung player. Nice box, nice packaging. You pull the BD-P1000 out of said packaging and it looks pretty badass. Love the lines. It's a much nicer looking player than Toshiba's HD-A1, though it's lighter and feels a little less solid. The BD-P1000's remote is nicer too... not backlit unfortunately, but it feels better in your hand and the buttons are laid out more conveniently.
Connection via HDMI is pretty easy. You fire the BD-P1000 up and the first thing you notice is a sexy blue glow from the various openings on the player. Nice... except I have yet to find a dimmer. And it's just a little too bright, you know? Anyway... the player fires up very quickly. You get a welcome screen within about 5 seconds of power-on. BIG improvement over the Tosh HD-DVD player. You can load a disc after less then 30 seconds, also an improvement over the Tosh. I also like that when it's loading or thinking, you get a little onscreen icon to let you know, rather than just nothing. At least you feel like the thing is doing something. For whatever reason, the player defaults to 720p output via HDMI... you have to go into the setup menu to select 1080i. Okay, so that's what I did.
Now it's time to look at my first Blu-ray Disc. Naturally, my hand swerved towards The Fifth Element. The title was an amazing bit of reference work on standard DVD, and that Superbit version was awesome. Obvious choice, right? Should look amazing in HD. Yeah... it should. But it doesn't. In fact... I'm not going to come out and say it looks like crap, but it is easily the worst looking high-definition title I've seen yet, and I've seen 30+ titles now. The image is muddy looking, lacking in crisp, clean detail. The colors don't quite pop off the screen like they should. Just a mess. Okay... I will say it. It looks like crap. Sony should never have released this title like this. In fact, they should be embarrassed about this disc. Seriously, if you compare the upscaled Superbit standard-definition DVD to this, the Blu-ray Disc looks only marginally better. This should have been a reference title in high-def and it's not even in the ball park. My brow furrowed in troubled surprise at this point. Wow... and not the good kind.
Next, I tried The Terminator. A big improvement. This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used. The disc is very good looking, but not blow-you-away good. In any case, this is probably not the best title to test the video quality of Blu-ray Disc, so let's move on.
Now these two Lionsgate titles... they're much better looking. Crash and Lord of War have significantly improved clarity, crisp yet clean detail, vibrant color... they're much more like what I expected Blu-ray Disc would look like. Both have a more film-like image. And yet...
There are some problems I'm seeing right away with all of the Blu-ray Disc titles on the BD-P1000. First, when I switch to 1080i, I'm noticing some very obvious scaling issues that I don't see when the player is set to 720p. I also don't see anything like this on the Toshiba HD-A1 at any resolution, so this is specific to THIS player, which may be why Samsung ships it with 720p set by default. Second, I'm noticing a very slight "studdering" problem. About once a second, or maybe once every few seconds, the video seems to hesitate for just a instant - a tiny fraction of a second. You notice it most when the images on screen are moving quickly, or when the camera is panning. It may be that this issue is related to the first. Still trying to figure out what I'm seeing here. Lionsgate's Lord of War was the title where I noticed it first, and I'll have to check them all before knowing whether it's just this title or all of the discs. Again, it's not something I've seen on any HD-DVD titles thus far.
By the way, I haven't tested the Samsung's standard DVD upconversion capability to any real degree yet. Just FYI.
If I had to compare my initial impressions of Blu-ray Disc to those of HD-DVD... well, I certainly need to see more Blu-ray titles and spend more time with the player. I'm really just giving you my initial, off-the-cuff comments, based on less than 10 hours of viewing time with the Samsung. It's worth noting that we've only seen one player for each format, so it's hard to say what issues are specifically related to the players, and what are format related. But right now... I think I may end up giving Round One of this format war to HD-DVD, and that surprises the hell out of me. Sure, that Tosh HD-DVD player was a lemon until the firmware upgrade, but it's worked like a charm since. And the first 25 or so HD-DVD discs I've viewed just look better overall than the first 4 Blu-ray Discs I've seen. The HD-DVDs also have a LOT more extra features than the Blu-ray Discs (even if you consider that most of the extras are recycled from standard DVD). For the record, Terminator on Blu-ray has 7 deleted scenes and 2 featurettes, recycled from standard DVD. Fifth Element has a pop-up trivia track, again from the standard DVD. The Lionsgate titles have nothing. I keep hearing these comments (both official and unofficial) from Blu-ray execs saying that they're leaving off the extras so they can give all the extra disc space over to the best video quality possible. Which tells me that Blu-ray is having major disc space problems. I've heard from more than a few industry sources that Blu-ray is having trouble getting the dual-layered BD media to work, which means that discs with lots of extras and good video quality aren't an option now. It also means that longer movies aren't an option now either. Both are problems for this format that don't seem to be troubling HD-DVD at the moment - at least not at first glance, based on the initial title offering.
What all of this goes to prove, of course, is just what I've been saying all along: These formats are being rushed to market before they're ready. And it also proves that the best option for the vast majority of you out there is just to save your money. Don't even bother with Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD for at least a year, because there are significant bugs to be worked out yet. Wait until better hardware and software is available at a better price, and the early adopter types have dealt with the problems and getting the manufacturers and studios to fix them. Anyway, I'll have more to say about Blu-ray Disc and the Samsung player in the next few days, as I spend a little more time with it. But so far, I'm less than impressed.
I think Sony has majorly screwed up by going with MPEG2 on SL discs.
I didn't understand why they would stay with MPEG 2 either. I've heard that cable operators are looking at moving on to MPEG 4 and VC-1.
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This is an error that they better rectify quicly. Samsung is taking returns because people are unhappy with the movie quality.
I guess this is why Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic have pushed back their BD players.
Toshiba and Samusung have likely released their players too quickly. Both likely know they are filled with bugs. I suppose the plan is to get the product out there to early adopters and patch it as they go.
Fine by me I'm not buying either for awhile.
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This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used.
Its not necessarily the film stock itself. The Godfather was shot on even older film stock and its a beautiful film. The softness could be from a number of things.
Back then visual effects were basically copied onto the live action image. So by the time you had a final image it may have been produced from several copies. Which added grain and softened the image.
But today much of that can be cleaned up with a proper restoration.
amsung Electronics will consider later this year if it will launch a high-definition movie player compatible with both the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats, it said Tuesday.
Samsung is a supporter of the Blu-ray Disc format, and its first player will go on sale in the United States in the next few days. The BD-P1000 is the first consumer Blu-ray Disc player from any manufacturer, and its launch will kick off full competition between the rival formats. Toshiba, which is the main backer of the HD DVD format, started player sales in March.
There are only a few technical differences between the formats, but they?re big enough to make them mutually incompatible. That?s a headache for consumers because most Hollywood studios have initially committed to releasing movies on one or the other disc format but not both.
Samsung is already working on a drive that handles both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, said Kim Du-Hyon, an assistant manager in Samsung?s home-platform product planning division, in a briefing with reporters at the company?s headquarters in Suwon, South Korea.
"We don?t have a plan to make an HD DVD-only player but are considering a universal player," he said. "We are preparing HD DVD [support] now, and if we launch a universal player, it will be the end of this year or early next year."
Kim underlined Samsung?s belief that Blu-ray Disc will beat HD DVD in the commercial marketplace, but said Samsung will consider a universal player should HD DVD prove as successful as Blu-ray Disc.
Samsung is not alone in working on drives that support both formats, according to industry sources.
While LG Electronics has publicly declared its plans to make drives for both formats, many of the leading Blu-ray Disc backers are also members of the DVD Forum and so have access to HD DVD technology and specifications.
In addition, some companies on each side of the battle have optical disc production joint ventures. Samsung is partnered with Toshiba in Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology and Sony and NEC, which back Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, respectively, formed Sony NEC Optiarc in April this year.
That would be smart Samsung. I think you'll find that HD DVD does VERY well.
They peg Toshiba units sold at 10,000. Not going to garner anyone supremacy in the HD market. We are still clearly in an early adoption market and will be well into next year. So don't get to excited there Murch.
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http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...yer-180950.php
Hands-On: Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Player
READ MORE: BD-P1000, Blu-Ray, Hands-On, Home Entertainment, Samsung, TOP
Samsung launched its BD-P1000 Blu-ray player earlier this morning and I feel I need to put my cards on the table. I?ve been watching the stars and I have a gut feeling that HD DVD is going to lose this bout, friends. It will not disappear completely, but it will be an also-ran down the line. Because the electronics market runs so quickly now?stuff disappears faster they can pump it out in Taiwan. UMD is off the shelves, Zip drives gave up the ghost, and thanks to Google, Microsoft Office might be getting consumptive pretty soon. The more things change, however?
Samsung has produced a very interesting product. The BD-P1000 is a large, healthy device with a 20 second BRD load-time and a crisp, clean picture. On a full 1080p set, the picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious. Whereas our experience with Toshiba?s offering was sub-par, the brief time that we were able to spend with the BD-P1000 proved two things: Samsung knows their shit and the BR is probably the horse to bet on.
The card reader doesn?t do very much except display still images at HD quality. It?s a nice addition, but nothing to write home about.
Feel free to flame me in a year when HD DVDs become the reigning king, but BR is backed by Samsung and Sony as well as a few other players. HD DVD gets lip service, but I don?t see much else coming out of that camp except for computer peripherals, which means HD might make a good backup medium down the line. In terms of usability and genuine content, however, BRD is probably the winner.
We?ll be getting a player next week, but until then, let?s mull over the various possibilities for the two formats and see what we, the Gizmodo quorum, feel.
I don't normally trumpet CNET reviews but this one seems right. No editorialzing about who's going to win. Just cold hard experience.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4532-10921_7...s&keywords=TVs
Notice this
1080i vs. 1080p was a wash. Much ado has been made of the fact that Blu-ray players can output 1080p resolution while first-generation HD-DVD players, namely the Toshiba HD-A1 and its ilk, can output "only" 1080i. I've said before that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p sources on a 1080p HDTV, and after the following test, I feel even more confident that 1080p output capability is overrated.
Using the same two players hooked up in the manner described above, I put a Memento Blu-ray disc in each and set one to 1080i mode and the other to 1080p. I chose one of the few scenes with a lot of motion--Leonard's final drive back from the vacant lot to the tattoo parlor--where interlaced artifacts from 1080i, such as jagged or moving lines, should be more visible. Bouncing back and forth between the 1080i and 1080p versions, I could see no differences whatsoever. From the white lines dividing the street to the buildings and the parked cars alongside the road flashing by, to close-ups of Leonard and his wife (Jorja Fox), the two looked identical. I can imagine material that might show more of a difference, such as sporting events with lots of camera movement, but it wasn't there in the scene I watched.
Those reading this thread have heard me say repeatedly that 1080i vs 1080p outputs are no different. IVTC de-interlacing ensures you get the progressive picture diplayed on your screen.
Not the bottom of the review where the load times are discussed. I've heard much ballywhooing about load times and the reality is both players are pretty close.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Some info regarding initial impression of Samsung player...
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...yer-180950.php
Pretty lacking review, and saying things like:
he picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious
doesn't mean much to anyone. I want some real reviews to start coming out. Put the thing through its paces, and give me indepth information about PQ, sound, navigation, options, etc. So far I have read one review of TFE, which was not so great, and this quazi-review-thing, saying it tasted like a fresh-baked pizza...err, I mean looked like a fresh-baked pizza (???)
Originally posted by hmurchison
[B]Marzetta7
Oh so those slow buttons are suddenly going to speed up when the "Official" launch date hits. Ohh gotcha..thanks for the heads up. 8)
Yeah will see who gets got.
The sluggish buttons come from more than one person. The slow menus come from more than one person. Calling Robert's accuracy into question is silly you can neither prove nor disprove his statement.
Good, who are they?....Waiting?....Still don't see proof...
What is silly is you just proved my point that your statement regarding shipped HD DVD units was crap. Gotcha!
Regarding TFE. Did I link to my own personal site or a 3rd party site that I have no affiliation with. Just because the results don't jive with your RDF doesn't mean they are false.
Yawn. It's always "wait for this ..wait for that" I've clearly stated the issues with the Sammy that I expect some will get fixed. You continue to make excuses and denigrate legit reviews because they don't fit in your rose tinted world.
No, no, no. I'm not denigrating any legit review from Hidefdigest. On the contrary, I really like the site as it provides good balanced reviews as we saw with TFE review. I just provided the quotes from the review that clearly went against the "BDA getting aced" spin you tried to claim. Yes, he said had some somewhat critical things to say about the Samsung which is great, that's how a product may improve on any perceived or subjective shortcomings, however what is interesting is that he predicated his main critiques with "However, make no mistake, this is a good-looking picture if you're not too critical." And herin lies the problem, your incessant jadedly critiques with anything in regards to Blu-ray that borderlines straight up hostile negativity/falsehoods. How else does "BDA gettin aced" comments supposed to be interpreted?
Overall I found the review balanced, and overall positive. The only "rose tinted world" I'm living in is one that is realistic in the fact of majority support in all facets--CE, IT, and Hollywood.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Within reason. Although HD DVD has half the studios I read a blurb that stated these studios they do have enjoy a disproportionate amount of hit moves. The combination of Warner, Paramount, Universal and New Line have created a rather larger group of popular movies.
Let's be honest while Blu-Ray gets to add a couple of notches with MGM and Lion's Gate truth is neither studio has really been a huge factor in recent years. MGM's value is basically their back catalog of stuff. If Disney comes aboard next year (and they should) I view that as more important than getting MGM or LSG.
But you laud the Playstation 3 as some sort of monumental achievement
Oh, it adds another notch with Disney, make now mistake. Disney is Blu-ray, and in no way HD DVD officially despite your hopes in a random statment made by Iger months ago. Now there hasn't been anything substantial in regards to this statment, has there been? Nothing coming to fruition in this regard,...what makes you think that next year Disney will all of a sudden support HD DVD with the measely number of units of hardware sold? Do a little more thinking and less hoping, and you should find the answer.
Lets be honest, Blu-ray has the majority of Hollywood studio support, not half.
From a standby state, it took 24 seconds from the time I pressed Open/Close until the disc drawer actually opened to accept a disc
But then he goes on to say:
Responses were livelier. While the Toshiba occasionally wouldn't respond to commands or would take a long time to provide feedback that I'd issued one, the Samsung's responses were as quick as I expect from consumer electronics devices.
I think the Samsung is winning in the usability argument. The whole load time thing is a wash thought:
From a standby state, it took 24 seconds from the time I pressed Open/Close until the disc drawer actually opened to accept a disc. After I inserted Memento, it took 58 seconds from the time I closed the drawer for the disc's menu to appear. During much of that time, an all-too-familiar Windows or Linux-style hourglass occupied the screen, along with Samsung's load screen; happily, there was no unskippable promotional stuff on the disc. We timed the Toshiba at 90 seconds to load most discs after being turned on, but that was before a firmware upgrade that reportedly cuts load times down quite a bit.
So interesting times ahead. I look forward to some heads-on reviews of teh Toshiba (firmwared up) vs the Samsung.
References to sluggishness
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7841347
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7846518
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7846758
Looks like 3 people are experiencing this. At any rate it's not a large issue.
Those reading this thread have heard me say repeatedly that 1080i vs 1080p outputs are no different. IVTC de-interlacing ensures you get the progressive picture diplayed on your screen.
This can be true with background processing. The video you are looking at is highly compressed so that will hide detail differences and both interlace and progressive scans are playing at similar frame rates on the television which reduce their difference.
In a pure sense interlaced and progressive do look a lot different. Which is why they came up with progressive scan video in the first place.
I wonder too if Toshiba could be using faster frames rates. Using the increased temporal resolution to make up for loss of vertical resolution when de-interlaced at the same frame rate as progressive.
I've got a first-gen Panasonic DVD recorder deck, and that takes forever to open the draw from standby. Also, the UI on the thing was designed by a moron...
David
Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Which Has the Early Edge?
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,126112,00.asp
The next-generation disc formats are here--and so are hints of where the format war is going.
Melissa J. Perenson
Tuesday, June 20, 2006
A funny thing happens in a format war: At some point, the theoretical spec one-upmanship gives way to tangible reality--what the rival products are delivering, today.
After looking at the initial wave of products from both fronts, I have a few thoughts about where the format war is heading. The first products deliver on their promises of outstanding high-definition video (Toshiba's HD-A1 and HD-XA1 HD DVD players and its Qosmio G35-AV650 laptop, plus more than 25 HD DVD movies from Warner Brothers and Universal) and high-capacity, rewritable disc storage (Pioneer's BDR-101A, Sony's AR Premium VGN-AR19G notebook equipped with a Blu-ray player/burner). I'm less intrigued by the actual products than I am by what they say beneath the surface about the two warring formats.
High-Def Video: A Capacity Question?
After debuting in fits and starts, and after both formats' encountering delays due to issues surrounding the AACS (Advanced Access Content System) copy controls, HD DVD is still enjoying a slight lead to market on its rival. HD DVD came out in late April, and even though player supplies continue to be tight, new titles are steadily streaming out every week.
Meanwhile, Blu-ray has faced a few additional post-AACS setbacks--although not quite as many as I've seen inaccurately reported around the Web. Sony Pictures pushed its content launch to June 20 after Samsung announced a change in release date for its $1000 BD-P1000 player, from late May to June 25. However, both of those launches remain on schedule, the vendors claim. Jim Sanduski, Samsung's senior vice president of marketing, says, "We'll be in more than 2000 storefronts at launch, and we will have multiple units available at each of these locations. Will we sell out? I hope so. We are launching with more storefronts and more quantity than Toshiba."
Meanwhile, Pioneer shifted its planned Blu-ray player from an early summer launch to September--when the product does launch, though, it will be at $1500, $300 less than the price the company announced back in January at CES. And Sony Electronics has adjusted the expected July release of its $1000 BD-SP1 player by a few weeks. According to a company spokesperson, the move is a strategic one, to coincide with the company's August launch of 1080p televisions and its push to educate consumers about Blu-ray Disc at retail outlets nationwide.
I don't expect that we'll see dramatic, overwhelming differences in image quality between HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc movie content. I do expect it to be tough to isolate which format is superior for delivering video, given the number of variables that come into play--including choices in the video codec, bit rate, and encoder used, not to mention whether you're viewing the output over analog or HDMI, on a display capable of 1080i or 1080p.
We'll probably see subtle differences. Sony plans to encode its first generation of discs in MPEG-2, while Warner and Universal's HD DVDs are using the VC-1 or MPEG-4 AVC codec. RCA's and Toshiba's HD DVD players output at 1080i (even though the movie discs are 1080p), while the first Blu-ray players from Pioneer, Samsung, and Sony all output at 1080p.
I hope to see the same film released on both HD DVD and Blu-ray, at different bit rates and using different codecs. Only then will it be clear, visually, whether Blu-ray's greater maximum capacity of 50GB for dual-layer discs provides a tangible advantage. (HD DVD currently tops out at 30GB for a dual-layer disc; Toshiba raised the possibility of a 45GB triple-layer disc last summer, but according to the DVD Forum it has not been discussed, let alone formally added to the HD DVD spec.)
The rival media's physical storage constraints have the potential to be a greater issue in this struggle than many observers have considered up until now. Before HD DVD's launch, I had privately heard rumblings of studio concerns about HD DVD's lower capacity.
Now that I've taken a closer look at the first eight HD DVD movies I received from Warner Brothers and Universal, I can understand why. None of the eight titles could fit on a 15GB single-layer HD DVD, and half came within a mere 5GB of maxing out a 30GB dual-layer disc--even though all relied on the latest, more efficient video codecs (VC-1 and MPEG-4 AVC). The movies were The Last Samurai (which topped out at 27.3GB), Mel Brooks's Blazing Saddles (25.4GB), The Phantom of the Opera (24.8GB), Jarhead (24.7GB), The Bourne Identity (22.7GB), Serenity (19.6GB), The Fugitive (18.2GB), and Doom (16.5GB).
Granted, this is a small, random sampling, but the results nonetheless surprised me, considering that I had for so long heard HD DVD supporters say that even 15GB would be roomy for high-def content. Instead, it seems that HD DVD content is, in many cases, barely squeezing onto 30GB discs today--and the tight space leaves little breathing room for the interactive-video future that Hollywood's creative minds will dream up down the road. All of the titles I saw are first-generation; not surprisingly, their menus and level of interactivity are basic and do not reflect the complexity I expect to see from both formats in the near future. Plus, the existing extras don't take full advantage of the formats, nor were they created natively in high-definition, with high-def, wide-screen presentation in mind. And the soundtracks are more limited, typically only today's 5.1-channel sound, with just one audio commentary instead of multiple commentaries and elaborate features.
Imagine what an innovative director like Peter Jackson might have done with the on-set documentaries and featurettes for his The Lord of the Rings trilogy, had everything been filmed with HD DVD or Blu-ray Disc in mind. Something tells me that a 30GB disc wouldn't come close to being enough, and that a 45GB disc (assuming one does come to market) might get a bit snug--even if one accounts for future improvements and efficiencies in compression and disc authoring techniques.
How much space Blu-ray content will consume remains to be seen; the first titles from Sony are beginning to ship this week, and although none of them will be on 50GB dual-layer discs, other titles will ship on 50GB discs later this summer, according to Sony. But I can't help but think that this format's greater capacity will serve it well over time. That said, I'm not convinced the PlayStation 3 will be Blu-ray's trump card. Sony said nothing at the E3 Expo in May that makes me think it is truly positioning the PS3 for home-theater buffs who want a Blu-ray Disc player that's cheaper than a stand-alone box. And for those consumers who do invest $599 in the premium PlayStation 3 with HDMI output, the machine's primary purpose will likely be for playing Gran Turismo HD and other launch game titles, not for watching Hitch in high-def.
Recording
The advantage in recording is, for now, clearly with Blu-ray: Vendors in this camp are first to market with disc burners for PCs, as well as first to release mobile burners for notebooks--and the format has the higher maximum capacity. PC Blu-ray burners are shipping from Pioneer and I-O Data, with others soon to come; this month Sony is shipping its aforementioned AR Premium Blu-ray laptop, as well as its VAIO RC series of burner-equipped desktops starting at just $2150--not overly outrageous considering that a stand-alone PC burner is priced at $1000.
Officially, the HD DVD camp remains mum on the status of PC burners. Since media was introduced at Computex in Taiwan last week, and since RiData just announced that its HD DVD-R media will ship in July, one might think a burner isn't far behind. The only news from the show, however, consisted of Toshiba's display of a slimline burner for notebooks, the SD-L902A; the company offered little there in the way of specs, pricing, or timing, let alone a demonstration of the drive's readiness (and it hasn't revealed anything since). From the get-go, the HD DVD camp's stated focus has been on the home theater playback experience (with PC movie playback coming in second, and recording not even on the road map). The lack of recording capabilities restricts HD DVD to prepackaged Hollywood content; no aspiring Spielbergs can edit their own high-def films and burn them to disc. It also limits HD DVD's viability as a data storage medium.
Price
No question: HD DVD has the edge in price. RCA's and Toshiba's players start at a highly accessible $499--if you can find them.
The cheapest stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player will be Samsung's $1000 BD-P1000, due out this month. Sony's BDP-S1 will also be $1000 when it ships in August, and Pioneer's Elite BDP-HD1 will be $1500 when it debuts in September. Sony's $499 Sony PlayStation 3, due in November, will be the least expensive player of them all; however, that model won't have an HDMI output, so you won't be able to display all-digital 1080p content. The $599 version will have HDMI, at least. Nonetheless, PlayStation 3's impact as a Blu-ray Disc player may not be as far-reaching as some observers might think; I found it curious that at E3 Sony made no mention of what kind of remote control it will offer with the PS3, and I'm not fully sold on how well the PS3 will serve as a multipurpose entertainment device.
Of course, in this nascent market, one might argue that the early adopters shopping for high-def players won't be dissuaded by a $1000 price tag. But I think that Blu-ray Disc's higher cost could hurt it, unless Blu-ray player manufacturers can adequately convey to consumers that their devices deliver enough value to justify being at least twice as much as HD DVD players.
The AACS Wild Card
Forget that Blu-ray has PlayStation 3 on its side, and that Intel and Microsoft have thrown their collective weight behind HD DVD. Forget that high-definition televisions are still gaining traction, albeit with increasing speed, among consumers. Forget that HD DVD and Blu-ray are both, really, formats in their infancy, both trying to claw their way to dominance to succeed DVD--and to avoid the sad fate of their digital audio format cousins, SACD and DVD-Audio.
For now, both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD are hampered by the fact that AACS has yet to finalize its managed copy component, the most critical aspect of the spec that remains unfinished. Without a final AACS spec, living-room high-def recorders can't proceed to market, and neither can devices that are designed to take advantage of legally copying and moving content from one disc to another--or to another device, for that matter. Original estimates put AACS's final spec as coming out in May; we're already well into June, and still there are no updates.
Until players can be manufactured to take advantage of everything from media servers to copying content, the first high-def video players from either camp should have limited appeal. I have no doubt that these players, be they Blu-ray or HD DVD, will deliver enticing high-def images. If all they do is play back content, however, they're missing a core part of the innovation that Blu-ray and HD DVD have the potential to deliver.
Bravo!,
This is a well researched and written article. I myself will own both Blu-Ray and HD DVD. I champion HD DVD though because I believe it
offers the best legacy support and meets the needs of consumers and producers alike.
One interesting thing about the article. While I normally would be concerned with the 30GB capacity of HD DVD I don?t worry about that and that?s because HD DVD uses the newer high efficienty codecs I expect that the size of movies will decrease and their quality will increase. Case in point Serenity is a new movie thus it was filmed on the latest technology. This film is often lauded to be the best quality HD DVD that you can buy now and it was one of the smallest films on your list. Thus we know that proportionally size does not equate to quality on a linear scale. We must take into account the Master and then the prowess of the encoding engineers.
30GB will never allow producers to be lazy but it will be enough for those producers who desire interactive content and copious extras to reach their creative apex. Love to read more from you about the subject. Regards.
More HD DVD news!!
http://hddvdformat.blogspot.com
Universal Studios Home Entertainment seems to be pulling no stops with respect to its support for HD DVD format, with new titles added to the September HD DVD release slate.
September 12:
>> Backdraft
>> Traffic
>> Seabiscuit
>> Red Dragon
September 19:
>> Dazed & Confused
>> End of Days
>> Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
>> George A. Romero?s Land of the Dead
Words can barely describe how ugly things have been over at AVS since the Sammy BD player has been announced. I think Sony has majorly screwed up by going with MPEG2 on SL discs.
This is an error that they better rectify quicly. Samsung is taking returns because people are unhappy with the movie quality.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
Well... I've had my first experience with Blu-ray Disc, and Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. For the record, I have four titles on hand... The Fifth Element and The Terminator (from Sony and MGM) and Lord of War and Crash (from Lionsgate).
You know how I keep saying that these formats are being rushed to market about a year before they're ready? And you recall how hard I was on the HD-DVD camp for their klutzy launch and buggy hardware? And you know how I said that Blu-ray Disc looked like the superior format, at least on paper? Well... unfortunately, the Blu-ray camp has dropped a dud with their big launch too. Every bit as klutzy as HD-DVD. Think Clark Kent klutzy, or Gerald Ford klutzy, or Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford klutzy.
Let's start with the Samsung player. Nice box, nice packaging. You pull the BD-P1000 out of said packaging and it looks pretty badass. Love the lines. It's a much nicer looking player than Toshiba's HD-A1, though it's lighter and feels a little less solid. The BD-P1000's remote is nicer too... not backlit unfortunately, but it feels better in your hand and the buttons are laid out more conveniently.
Connection via HDMI is pretty easy. You fire the BD-P1000 up and the first thing you notice is a sexy blue glow from the various openings on the player. Nice... except I have yet to find a dimmer. And it's just a little too bright, you know? Anyway... the player fires up very quickly. You get a welcome screen within about 5 seconds of power-on. BIG improvement over the Tosh HD-DVD player. You can load a disc after less then 30 seconds, also an improvement over the Tosh. I also like that when it's loading or thinking, you get a little onscreen icon to let you know, rather than just nothing. At least you feel like the thing is doing something. For whatever reason, the player defaults to 720p output via HDMI... you have to go into the setup menu to select 1080i. Okay, so that's what I did.
Now it's time to look at my first Blu-ray Disc. Naturally, my hand swerved towards The Fifth Element. The title was an amazing bit of reference work on standard DVD, and that Superbit version was awesome. Obvious choice, right? Should look amazing in HD. Yeah... it should. But it doesn't. In fact... I'm not going to come out and say it looks like crap, but it is easily the worst looking high-definition title I've seen yet, and I've seen 30+ titles now. The image is muddy looking, lacking in crisp, clean detail. The colors don't quite pop off the screen like they should. Just a mess. Okay... I will say it. It looks like crap. Sony should never have released this title like this. In fact, they should be embarrassed about this disc. Seriously, if you compare the upscaled Superbit standard-definition DVD to this, the Blu-ray Disc looks only marginally better. This should have been a reference title in high-def and it's not even in the ball park. My brow furrowed in troubled surprise at this point. Wow... and not the good kind.
Next, I tried The Terminator. A big improvement. This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used. The disc is very good looking, but not blow-you-away good. In any case, this is probably not the best title to test the video quality of Blu-ray Disc, so let's move on.
Now these two Lionsgate titles... they're much better looking. Crash and Lord of War have significantly improved clarity, crisp yet clean detail, vibrant color... they're much more like what I expected Blu-ray Disc would look like. Both have a more film-like image. And yet...
There are some problems I'm seeing right away with all of the Blu-ray Disc titles on the BD-P1000. First, when I switch to 1080i, I'm noticing some very obvious scaling issues that I don't see when the player is set to 720p. I also don't see anything like this on the Toshiba HD-A1 at any resolution, so this is specific to THIS player, which may be why Samsung ships it with 720p set by default. Second, I'm noticing a very slight "studdering" problem. About once a second, or maybe once every few seconds, the video seems to hesitate for just a instant - a tiny fraction of a second. You notice it most when the images on screen are moving quickly, or when the camera is panning. It may be that this issue is related to the first. Still trying to figure out what I'm seeing here. Lionsgate's Lord of War was the title where I noticed it first, and I'll have to check them all before knowing whether it's just this title or all of the discs. Again, it's not something I've seen on any HD-DVD titles thus far.
By the way, I haven't tested the Samsung's standard DVD upconversion capability to any real degree yet. Just FYI.
If I had to compare my initial impressions of Blu-ray Disc to those of HD-DVD... well, I certainly need to see more Blu-ray titles and spend more time with the player. I'm really just giving you my initial, off-the-cuff comments, based on less than 10 hours of viewing time with the Samsung. It's worth noting that we've only seen one player for each format, so it's hard to say what issues are specifically related to the players, and what are format related. But right now... I think I may end up giving Round One of this format war to HD-DVD, and that surprises the hell out of me. Sure, that Tosh HD-DVD player was a lemon until the firmware upgrade, but it's worked like a charm since. And the first 25 or so HD-DVD discs I've viewed just look better overall than the first 4 Blu-ray Discs I've seen. The HD-DVDs also have a LOT more extra features than the Blu-ray Discs (even if you consider that most of the extras are recycled from standard DVD). For the record, Terminator on Blu-ray has 7 deleted scenes and 2 featurettes, recycled from standard DVD. Fifth Element has a pop-up trivia track, again from the standard DVD. The Lionsgate titles have nothing. I keep hearing these comments (both official and unofficial) from Blu-ray execs saying that they're leaving off the extras so they can give all the extra disc space over to the best video quality possible. Which tells me that Blu-ray is having major disc space problems. I've heard from more than a few industry sources that Blu-ray is having trouble getting the dual-layered BD media to work, which means that discs with lots of extras and good video quality aren't an option now. It also means that longer movies aren't an option now either. Both are problems for this format that don't seem to be troubling HD-DVD at the moment - at least not at first glance, based on the initial title offering.
What all of this goes to prove, of course, is just what I've been saying all along: These formats are being rushed to market before they're ready. And it also proves that the best option for the vast majority of you out there is just to save your money. Don't even bother with Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD for at least a year, because there are significant bugs to be worked out yet. Wait until better hardware and software is available at a better price, and the early adopter types have dealt with the problems and getting the manufacturers and studios to fix them. Anyway, I'll have more to say about Blu-ray Disc and the Samsung player in the next few days, as I spend a little more time with it. But so far, I'm less than impressed.
hmurchison wins Round 1
I think Sony has majorly screwed up by going with MPEG2 on SL discs.
I didn't understand why they would stay with MPEG 2 either. I've heard that cable operators are looking at moving on to MPEG 4 and VC-1.
This is an error that they better rectify quicly. Samsung is taking returns because people are unhappy with the movie quality.
I guess this is why Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic have pushed back their BD players.
Toshiba and Samusung have likely released their players too quickly. Both likely know they are filled with bugs. I suppose the plan is to get the product out there to early adopters and patch it as they go.
Fine by me I'm not buying either for awhile.
This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used.
Its not necessarily the film stock itself. The Godfather was shot on even older film stock and its a beautiful film. The softness could be from a number of things.
Back then visual effects were basically copied onto the live action image. So by the time you had a final image it may have been produced from several copies. Which added grain and softened the image.
But today much of that can be cleaned up with a proper restoration.
in what fashion are you connected to movie or video production?
amsung Electronics will consider later this year if it will launch a high-definition movie player compatible with both the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats, it said Tuesday.
Samsung is a supporter of the Blu-ray Disc format, and its first player will go on sale in the United States in the next few days. The BD-P1000 is the first consumer Blu-ray Disc player from any manufacturer, and its launch will kick off full competition between the rival formats. Toshiba, which is the main backer of the HD DVD format, started player sales in March.
There are only a few technical differences between the formats, but they?re big enough to make them mutually incompatible. That?s a headache for consumers because most Hollywood studios have initially committed to releasing movies on one or the other disc format but not both.
Samsung is already working on a drive that handles both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, said Kim Du-Hyon, an assistant manager in Samsung?s home-platform product planning division, in a briefing with reporters at the company?s headquarters in Suwon, South Korea.
"We don?t have a plan to make an HD DVD-only player but are considering a universal player," he said. "We are preparing HD DVD [support] now, and if we launch a universal player, it will be the end of this year or early next year."
Kim underlined Samsung?s belief that Blu-ray Disc will beat HD DVD in the commercial marketplace, but said Samsung will consider a universal player should HD DVD prove as successful as Blu-ray Disc.
Samsung is not alone in working on drives that support both formats, according to industry sources.
While LG Electronics has publicly declared its plans to make drives for both formats, many of the leading Blu-ray Disc backers are also members of the DVD Forum and so have access to HD DVD technology and specifications.
In addition, some companies on each side of the battle have optical disc production joint ventures. Samsung is partnered with Toshiba in Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology and Sony and NEC, which back Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, respectively, formed Sony NEC Optiarc in April this year.
That would be smart Samsung. I think you'll find that HD DVD does VERY well.
My oh my what a turn of events. Toshiba's going to get quit a lead by the time BD players are shipping in quantity.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Get this. Sony's BD player delayed until late Oct!!
My oh my what a turn of events. Toshiba's going to get quit a lead by the time BD players are shipping in quantity.
Not to much of a lead if they only sell 10,000-12,000 units. See this article...
http://news.com.com/Blu-ray+Disc+rea...3-6084661.html
They peg Toshiba units sold at 10,000. Not going to garner anyone supremacy in the HD market. We are still clearly in an early adoption market and will be well into next year. So don't get to excited there Murch.