Yah I guess I wasn't thinking outside the box. I was trying to figure out how they would do it with the current designs and having the drives in the back / side. I really don't see apple going to a 5.25" slot in the front though... I wouldn't mind it... i could put an extra optical drive there... but they are nazis... =P.
Btw onlooker... you aren't missing much at the MW's and WWDC's. WWDC is kinda cool if you're a dev, but I think they run them at too quick of a pace. It's really only worth it to get the DVD's at the end so you can watch at your own pace. They are really more of seminars to show you cool stuff than to learn cool stuff.
I don't think we're going to be seeing large numbers of 3.5" bays in the powermac line (a la the 8600/9600's, or that PC monstrosity above) anymore.
Given the advent of 500GB+ drives means that the playing field is going to be split pretty much into two camps:
A) Needs more than 1TB (or so) of available space.
These are going to be your true power-users, the sort of people who edit full-length video professionally. Chances are (if they're an all apple shop) they'll have an XRAid or something linked to their workstation via fibrechannel or something likewise serious.
This same reasoning holds true for the need to have hotswappable drives.
Everybody else.
Apple figures (and probably rightly so) that if you need over 1TB space, you probably won't need all of it at SATA speeds, and can get by with a SAN or something (i.e. backup). Apple's not a boutique manufacturer, so they're not going to fragment their product line much beyond what we're already seeing.
Bottom line: the days of having six or more HD bays is over. Boo hoo.
I don't think we're going to be seeing large numbers of 3.5" bays in the powermac line (a la the 8600/9600's, or that PC monstrosity above) anymore.
Given the advent of 500GB+ drives means that the playing field is going to be split pretty much into two camps:
A) Needs more than 1TB (or so) of available space.
These are going to be your true power-users, the sort of people who edit full-length video professionally. Chances are (if they're an all apple shop) they'll have an XRAid or something linked to their workstation via fibrechannel or something likewise serious.
This same reasoning holds true for the need to have hotswappable drives.
Everybody else.
Apple figures (and probably rightly so) that if you need over 1TB space, you probably won't need all of it at SATA speeds, and can get by with a SAN or something (i.e. backup). Apple's not a boutique manufacturer, so they're not going to fragment their product line much beyond what we're already seeing.
Bottom line: the days of having six or more HD bays is over. Boo hoo.
Anyway, I agree that the Mac Pro will not have more HD bays, or at least probably only 3 or MAYBE 4. It would be useful for Video and audio to have 3 HD internally.
Well, looked at a few 2S Woodcrest systems and it looks like it will be very difficult for Apple to sell even mid-level (2.33 GHz or lower) quad system for less than $3000. So, Conroe systems at the low and mid-range and 2S at the high end for $3300+ might be it for the "Mac Pro".
A 2.66 GHz Woodcrest cost $700. A Greencreek workstation board is about $500. So 2 CPUs and a board would cost $2000. A decent standard graphics card at $150 and 1 GB of FB-DIMM will in the area of $200. After adding all the other stuff (hard drive, optical, case, etc), we could be sitting at $2999 for bare bones 2S 2.66 GHz Xeon 5150 system.
That's not much of an improvement of the G5 Quad; not like the iMac or laptops. I cannot see Apple selling a 2S 3 GHz Xeon 5160 (3 GHz) system for under $3500. Not even close.
So, I think Apple will have no choice but to office 2 Conroe systems at $1999 and $2500. Either that, or split the Pro desktop into two lines: a Conroe mid-range from $1299 to $1999 and a 2S Woodcrest high end starting at $2999, minimum.
The costs just are working out so that Apple could sell at 2S 2.33+ GHz Woodcrest for anything less than $3000.
Well, looked at a few 2S Woodcrest systems and it looks like it will be very difficult for Apple to sell even mid-level (2.33 GHz or lower) quad system for less than $3000. So, Conroe systems at the low and mid-range and 2S at the high end for $3300+ might be it for the "Mac Pro".
A 2.66 GHz Woodcrest cost $700. A Greencreek workstation board is about $500. So 2 CPUs and a board would cost $2000. A decent standard graphics card at $150 and 1 GB of FB-DIMM will in the area of $200. After adding all the other stuff (hard drive, optical, case, etc), we could be sitting at $2999 for bare bones 2S 2.66 GHz Xeon 5150 system.
That's not much of an improvement of the G5 Quad; not like the iMac or laptops. I cannot see Apple selling a 2S 3 GHz Xeon 5160 (3 GHz) system for under $3500. Not even close.
So, I think Apple will have no choice but to office 2 Conroe systems at $1999 and $2500. Either that, or split the Pro desktop into two lines: a Conroe mid-range from $1299 to $1999 and a 2S Woodcrest high end starting at $2999, minimum.
The costs just are working out so that Apple could sell at 2S 2.33+ GHz Woodcrest for anything less than $3000.
Nothing to do with money here but just out of curiosity THT.
Do you think Apple, and intel will use a standard intel Woodcrest chipset? I'm not sure they will. I think being that intel has a team designated to the mac Motherboard design, and to Apple themselves, they created an Apple only, unique chipset for the MacPro board. I think they would have to to keep OS X on MacPro's and MacPro's alone. Food for thought. Apple may have their own design which would give them their own naming scheme for this new MacPro. Rather than call it a G6 per-se they could name it after their unique intel/Apple designed board. Something to consider.
The intel contract with Apple's details are virtually unknown, but I'm sure they had to make some some seriously unique offers while they were courting Apple for the past 5+ years to move to intel.
Comments
Btw onlooker... you aren't missing much at the MW's and WWDC's. WWDC is kinda cool if you're a dev, but I think they run them at too quick of a pace. It's really only worth it to get the DVD's at the end so you can watch at your own pace. They are really more of seminars to show you cool stuff than to learn cool stuff.
Originally posted by mwswami
Functionally, I like this SuperMicro full-tower system with support for dual Woodcrests and 8 hot-pluggable SAS/SATA discs.
Yeah - typical Apple design
Given the advent of 500GB+ drives means that the playing field is going to be split pretty much into two camps:
A) Needs more than 1TB (or so) of available space.
These are going to be your true power-users, the sort of people who edit full-length video professionally. Chances are (if they're an all apple shop) they'll have an XRAid or something linked to their workstation via fibrechannel or something likewise serious.
This same reasoning holds true for the need to have hotswappable drives.
Apple figures (and probably rightly so) that if you need over 1TB space, you probably won't need all of it at SATA speeds, and can get by with a SAN or something (i.e. backup). Apple's not a boutique manufacturer, so they're not going to fragment their product line much beyond what we're already seeing.
Bottom line: the days of having six or more HD bays is over. Boo hoo.
Originally posted by benzene
I don't think we're going to be seeing large numbers of 3.5" bays in the powermac line (a la the 8600/9600's, or that PC monstrosity above) anymore.
Given the advent of 500GB+ drives means that the playing field is going to be split pretty much into two camps:
A) Needs more than 1TB (or so) of available space.
These are going to be your true power-users, the sort of people who edit full-length video professionally. Chances are (if they're an all apple shop) they'll have an XRAid or something linked to their workstation via fibrechannel or something likewise serious.
This same reasoning holds true for the need to have hotswappable drives.
Apple figures (and probably rightly so) that if you need over 1TB space, you probably won't need all of it at SATA speeds, and can get by with a SAN or something (i.e. backup). Apple's not a boutique manufacturer, so they're not going to fragment their product line much beyond what we're already seeing.
Bottom line: the days of having six or more HD bays is over. Boo hoo.
QFT.
Originally posted by smalM
Yeah - typical Apple design
Don't make me go into mockup mode.
Anyway, I agree that the Mac Pro will not have more HD bays, or at least probably only 3 or MAYBE 4. It would be useful for Video and audio to have 3 HD internally.
A 2.66 GHz Woodcrest cost $700. A Greencreek workstation board is about $500. So 2 CPUs and a board would cost $2000. A decent standard graphics card at $150 and 1 GB of FB-DIMM will in the area of $200. After adding all the other stuff (hard drive, optical, case, etc), we could be sitting at $2999 for bare bones 2S 2.66 GHz Xeon 5150 system.
That's not much of an improvement of the G5 Quad; not like the iMac or laptops. I cannot see Apple selling a 2S 3 GHz Xeon 5160 (3 GHz) system for under $3500. Not even close.
So, I think Apple will have no choice but to office 2 Conroe systems at $1999 and $2500. Either that, or split the Pro desktop into two lines: a Conroe mid-range from $1299 to $1999 and a 2S Woodcrest high end starting at $2999, minimum.
The costs just are working out so that Apple could sell at 2S 2.33+ GHz Woodcrest for anything less than $3000.
kkthx?
Originally posted by THT
Well, looked at a few 2S Woodcrest systems and it looks like it will be very difficult for Apple to sell even mid-level (2.33 GHz or lower) quad system for less than $3000. So, Conroe systems at the low and mid-range and 2S at the high end for $3300+ might be it for the "Mac Pro".
A 2.66 GHz Woodcrest cost $700. A Greencreek workstation board is about $500. So 2 CPUs and a board would cost $2000. A decent standard graphics card at $150 and 1 GB of FB-DIMM will in the area of $200. After adding all the other stuff (hard drive, optical, case, etc), we could be sitting at $2999 for bare bones 2S 2.66 GHz Xeon 5150 system.
That's not much of an improvement of the G5 Quad; not like the iMac or laptops. I cannot see Apple selling a 2S 3 GHz Xeon 5160 (3 GHz) system for under $3500. Not even close.
So, I think Apple will have no choice but to office 2 Conroe systems at $1999 and $2500. Either that, or split the Pro desktop into two lines: a Conroe mid-range from $1299 to $1999 and a 2S Woodcrest high end starting at $2999, minimum.
The costs just are working out so that Apple could sell at 2S 2.33+ GHz Woodcrest for anything less than $3000.
Nothing to do with money here but just out of curiosity THT.
Do you think Apple, and intel will use a standard intel Woodcrest chipset? I'm not sure they will. I think being that intel has a team designated to the mac Motherboard design, and to Apple themselves, they created an Apple only, unique chipset for the MacPro board. I think they would have to to keep OS X on MacPro's and MacPro's alone. Food for thought. Apple may have their own design which would give them their own naming scheme for this new MacPro. Rather than call it a G6 per-se they could name it after their unique intel/Apple designed board. Something to consider.
The intel contract with Apple's details are virtually unknown, but I'm sure they had to make some some seriously unique offers while they were courting Apple for the past 5+ years to move to intel.
Originally posted by onlooker
Nothing to do with money here but just out of curiosity THT.
Do you think Apple, and intel will use a standard intel Woodcrest chipset?
Yes, but, of course with EFI.
Originally posted by melgross
Yes, but, of course with EFI.
The chipset has little to do with the firmware.
Originally posted by Chucker
The chipset has little to do with the firmware.
I know that. But it's also not standard as yet, which is why I mentioned it.
Originally posted by melgross
I know that. But it's also not standard as yet, which is why I mentioned it.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by Chucker
Fair enough.
That's true. Sometimes it's easy to forget that not everyone here is a regular.
Originally posted by onlooker
Other than EFI I think there will be something unique on Apples motherboard. Call it a hunch.
Any thoughts as to what?
Originally posted by melgross
Any thoughts as to what?
none what so ever.