He didn't have a choice of what apps to run? That's ridiculous. I still see your point, but he could've tried other stuff as well. That kind of heat isn't normal.
I meant the typical user will be running non-UB apps on a fairly regular basis (namely Office), so I don't see anything wrong with measuring the heat while running apps like that, since that is a fairly representative sample. Now of course this particular user could have tried running only UB apps, but that's akin to looking at micro-benchmarks: I'll take real-world tests over those any day.
The average user? Not necessarily. I use?_let's see, ONE non-UB app, because there are either nice alternatives to to those apps that aren't UB or they're ones that were UB before I got my MacBook.
Averaged over all the MacBook was about two degrees hotter than the Dell Latitude but a lot of the heat was in one part of the laptop. Basically over all they were the same for heat dissipation.
sorry, I hadn't noticed you'd already posted this. Interestingly though, you had a very different reading of it than what I had: the average temperature might only be a couple degrees more on the MB side, but the temperature on the upper left side (top and bottom) gets dramatically higher on the MacBook than on the Dell (10-15 degrees difference!). That's enough to tell me there clearly is a design problem. Granted, the Dell is probably a bit thicker than the MacBook, but that just shows that Apple has different priorities, as outlined by earlier posters. Great that somebody finally took actual measurements.
Makes you wonder why that guy didn't spec the two to be the same; 1 GB and 80 GB hard drive.
Come on now, that's lame... you seriously think that would make any difference? For playing a DVD?? Let's not nitpick for the sake of nitpicking here. If anything, I take my hats off to this guy for even doing this: he's the first on the block, so I certainly don't fault him if his testing isn't entirely scientific.
Come on now, that's lame... you seriously think that would make any difference? For playing a DVD??
Yes, especially the RAM. Do note that of the 512 MB, 80 are going off to the graphics chip. That's about a sixth. 432 MB of memory is a very low-end configuration for Tiger, and causes lots of swapping. 1 GB will make a huge difference in that regard.
I don't think I'd mind the heat given that the processors are so fast. I'd probably just sit my sausage rolls on the left of my trackpad (they'll fit on the widescreen size) to keep them warm for lunch time. Of course the grease might affect the Macbook.
Maybe this would explain the discoloration some white MB users are seeing.
That's enough to tell me there clearly is a design problem. Granted, the Dell is probably a bit thicker than the MacBook, but that just shows that Apple has different priorities, as outlined by earlier posters.
I don't think its so much of a design problem but a difference in design. I guess you can look at the glass as half empty or half full.
But for nothing else this test clearly shows the Macbook over all is no hotter than the Dell with the same processor.
I don't think its so much of a design problem but a difference in design. I guess you can look at the glass as half empty or half full.
But for nothing else this test clearly shows the Macbook over all is no hotter than the Dell with the same processor.
I think the only question that really matters to you and me, end users, should be whether the level of heat of the computer (or any part of it) is high enough to be bothersome and override other benefits. To me, seeing how I already find my iBook G3 too hot to put on my laps at times, such temperatures would clearly be problematic. So I would disagree with your attempt at making the difference seem insignificant based solely on the average temperature (which btw is still a couple of degrees higher on the Mac side). As we all know, averages alone are virtually meaningless (standard deviation from that average is equally important to get the full picture).
Threw out my back the other day. It's impossible for me to use my PB on my lap. Not discomfort but pain. Here is a nice screenshot of my heavy-duty internet browsing. And yes, that's 1.5 GB RAM and I have 24 GB free on the HD.
I'm on my back with a 1" pressed wood board between me and the machine. I can feel the heat through the board after about 20 minutes.
...the average temperature might only be a couple degrees more on the MB side, but the temperature on the upper left side (top and bottom) gets dramatically higher on the MacBook than on the Dell (10-15 degrees difference!). That's enough to tell me there clearly is a design problem. Granted, the Dell is probably a bit thicker than the MacBook, but that just shows that Apple has different priorities, as outlined by earlier posters. Great that somebody finally took actual measurements.
That would be the difference between having the whir of fans, as they distribute the heat around the laptop more evenly, or having a silent computer.
Apple probably made the right call. Temperature is opnly important when you have your computer sitting on your lap. Most notebooks spend most of their life on a desk. That said, as noted elsewhere, a control panel setting to force the fan on when you DO want to put the thing on your lap would be a very welcome addition to the system software. Leopard anyone?
When can we expect Apple to get its acts together on the Intel portable computers front? I am so tired of reading about all these stories of burning/exploding/egg-frying/discoloring/overheating/skin-blistering/whining/you-name-it-they-are-it Intel Apple notebooks! I've been dying to get a new portable Mac to replace my aging G3 iBook but I simply can't get myself to right now, due to all the incredible quality problems Apple's notebook line seems to be suffering right now, and has been for the last half-year! Educated guesses as to when Apple can turn their notebooks (meh) back into proper laptops are definitely welcome! Considering that other - almost equally slick and thin - Core Duo notebooks (Dell, ThinkPad) don't get anywhere as warm as Apple's MB/MBP, and the fact that the whole reason Apple switched to Intel is because they can make cooler-running processors with better performance, Apple's argument that the whole industry is moving toward hotter-running notebooks sounds lamer and lamer by the day.
And they have a broader range of notebooks, from ultra portables to top of the line Core Duo's. (It looks like the Pentium 4 desktop based notebooks are gone from both Sony and Dell. The old top of the line heat kings).
A more complete line-up is what Apple is missing. Both the MB and MBP are on the upper range of performance for Intel Portables. A low performance, lower wattage offering for 'laptop' users is still needed in the lineup. Where is the ULV core processor?
Earlier in this thread DCQ made a point about variability in heat from a batch of Dell laptops at his school. I will guess that we still live in this world where there is manufacturing variability and the chips and the thermal paste provide some variability in MB's. I like my MacBook and it gets warm but it hasn't blistered it hasn't fried eggs, and it doesn't chirp.
The forums and the internet will have a natural bias towards the negative. I won't say that there isn't a problem with many MacBooks but I will say that it can be difficult to judge the extent of the problem from posts in forums. They are biased towards complaints.
And they have a broader range of notebooks, from ultra portables to top of the line Core Duo's. (It looks like the Pentium 4 desktop based notebooks are gone from both Sony and Dell. The old top of the line heat kings).
A more complete line-up is what Apple is missing. Both the MB and MBP are on the upper range of performance for Intel Portables. A low performance, lower wattage offering for 'laptop' users is still needed in the lineup. Where is the ULV core processor?
Earlier in this thread DCQ made a point about variability in heat from a batch of Dell laptops at his school. I will guess that we still live in this world where there is manufacturing variability and the chips and the thermal paste provide some variability in MB's. I like my MacBook and it gets warm but it hasn't blistered it hasn't fried eggs, and it doesn't chirp.
The forums and the internet will have a natural bias towards the negative. I won't say that there isn't a problem with many MacBooks but I will say that it can be difficult to judge the extent of the problem from posts in forums. They are biased towards complaints.
Comments
Originally posted by Mackilroy
He didn't have a choice of what apps to run? That's ridiculous. I still see your point, but he could've tried other stuff as well. That kind of heat isn't normal.
I meant the typical user will be running non-UB apps on a fairly regular basis (namely Office), so I don't see anything wrong with measuring the heat while running apps like that, since that is a fairly representative sample. Now of course this particular user could have tried running only UB apps, but that's akin to looking at micro-benchmarks: I'll take real-world tests over those any day.
i can go on the internet with this too!
NEATO!
Originally posted by TenoBell
MacBook vs Dell Latitude in a heat test.
Averaged over all the MacBook was about two degrees hotter than the Dell Latitude but a lot of the heat was in one part of the laptop. Basically over all they were the same for heat dissipation.
http://www.krischeonline.com/staticp...p?page=macbook
sorry, I hadn't noticed you'd already posted this. Interestingly though, you had a very different reading of it than what I had: the average temperature might only be a couple degrees more on the MB side, but the temperature on the upper left side (top and bottom) gets dramatically higher on the MacBook than on the Dell (10-15 degrees difference!). That's enough to tell me there clearly is a design problem. Granted, the Dell is probably a bit thicker than the MacBook, but that just shows that Apple has different priorities, as outlined by earlier posters. Great that somebody finally took actual measurements.
Originally posted by Chucker
Makes you wonder why that guy didn't spec the two to be the same; 1 GB and 80 GB hard drive.
Come on now, that's lame... you seriously think that would make any difference? For playing a DVD?? Let's not nitpick for the sake of nitpicking here. If anything, I take my hats off to this guy for even doing this: he's the first on the block, so I certainly don't fault him if his testing isn't entirely scientific.
Originally posted by cygsid
Come on now, that's lame... you seriously think that would make any difference? For playing a DVD??
Yes, especially the RAM. Do note that of the 512 MB, 80 are going off to the graphics chip. That's about a sixth. 432 MB of memory is a very low-end configuration for Tiger, and causes lots of swapping. 1 GB will make a huge difference in that regard.
Originally posted by Marvin
...
I don't think I'd mind the heat given that the processors are so fast. I'd probably just sit my sausage rolls on the left of my trackpad (they'll fit on the widescreen size) to keep them warm for lunch time. Of course the grease might affect the Macbook.
Maybe this would explain the discoloration some white MB users are seeing.
That's enough to tell me there clearly is a design problem. Granted, the Dell is probably a bit thicker than the MacBook, but that just shows that Apple has different priorities, as outlined by earlier posters.
I don't think its so much of a design problem but a difference in design. I guess you can look at the glass as half empty or half full.
But for nothing else this test clearly shows the Macbook over all is no hotter than the Dell with the same processor.
Originally posted by TenoBell
I don't think its so much of a design problem but a difference in design. I guess you can look at the glass as half empty or half full.
But for nothing else this test clearly shows the Macbook over all is no hotter than the Dell with the same processor.
I think the only question that really matters to you and me, end users, should be whether the level of heat of the computer (or any part of it) is high enough to be bothersome and override other benefits. To me, seeing how I already find my iBook G3 too hot to put on my laps at times, such temperatures would clearly be problematic. So I would disagree with your attempt at making the difference seem insignificant based solely on the average temperature (which btw is still a couple of degrees higher on the Mac side). As we all know, averages alone are virtually meaningless (standard deviation from that average is equally important to get the full picture).
I'm on my back with a 1" pressed wood board between me and the machine. I can feel the heat through the board after about 20 minutes.
Not cool.
--B
Originally posted by Mackilroy
Odd? do you have CoreDuoTemp? DL that and it'll tell you what temp (obviously) that your laptop is running at.
I've got a PB, so that won't do any good. Here's a widget that I'm wary of since my fan just went on and it's not showing up on the widget.
The temps are corroborated by another widget by the same folk, istat nano.
degrees C
degrees F
--B
By the way the CPU temp on my PB G4 is currently 136 degrees F
Originally posted by cygsid
...the average temperature might only be a couple degrees more on the MB side, but the temperature on the upper left side (top and bottom) gets dramatically higher on the MacBook than on the Dell (10-15 degrees difference!). That's enough to tell me there clearly is a design problem. Granted, the Dell is probably a bit thicker than the MacBook, but that just shows that Apple has different priorities, as outlined by earlier posters. Great that somebody finally took actual measurements.
That would be the difference between having the whir of fans, as they distribute the heat around the laptop more evenly, or having a silent computer.
Apple probably made the right call. Temperature is opnly important when you have your computer sitting on your lap. Most notebooks spend most of their life on a desk. That said, as noted elsewhere, a control panel setting to force the fan on when you DO want to put the thing on your lap would be a very welcome addition to the system software. Leopard anyone?
Originally posted by cygsid
When can we expect Apple to get its acts together on the Intel portable computers front? I am so tired of reading about all these stories of burning/exploding/egg-frying/discoloring/overheating/skin-blistering/whining/you-name-it-they-are-it Intel Apple notebooks! I've been dying to get a new portable Mac to replace my aging G3 iBook but I simply can't get myself to right now, due to all the incredible quality problems Apple's notebook line seems to be suffering right now, and has been for the last half-year! Educated guesses as to when Apple can turn their notebooks (meh) back into proper laptops are definitely welcome! Considering that other - almost equally slick and thin - Core Duo notebooks (Dell, ThinkPad) don't get anywhere as warm as Apple's MB/MBP, and the fact that the whole reason Apple switched to Intel is because they can make cooler-running processors with better performance, Apple's argument that the whole industry is moving toward hotter-running notebooks sounds lamer and lamer by the day.
Buy a VAIO.. they come in colors now..
Originally posted by Zenga
Buy a VAIO.. they come in colors now..
And they have a broader range of notebooks, from ultra portables to top of the line Core Duo's. (It looks like the Pentium 4 desktop based notebooks are gone from both Sony and Dell. The old top of the line heat kings).
A more complete line-up is what Apple is missing. Both the MB and MBP are on the upper range of performance for Intel Portables. A low performance, lower wattage offering for 'laptop' users is still needed in the lineup. Where is the ULV core processor?
Earlier in this thread DCQ made a point about variability in heat from a batch of Dell laptops at his school. I will guess that we still live in this world where there is manufacturing variability and the chips and the thermal paste provide some variability in MB's. I like my MacBook and it gets warm but it hasn't blistered it hasn't fried eggs, and it doesn't chirp.
The forums and the internet will have a natural bias towards the negative. I won't say that there isn't a problem with many MacBooks but I will say that it can be difficult to judge the extent of the problem from posts in forums. They are biased towards complaints.
Originally posted by Silverdog
And they have a broader range of notebooks, from ultra portables to top of the line Core Duo's. (It looks like the Pentium 4 desktop based notebooks are gone from both Sony and Dell. The old top of the line heat kings).
A more complete line-up is what Apple is missing. Both the MB and MBP are on the upper range of performance for Intel Portables. A low performance, lower wattage offering for 'laptop' users is still needed in the lineup. Where is the ULV core processor?
Earlier in this thread DCQ made a point about variability in heat from a batch of Dell laptops at his school. I will guess that we still live in this world where there is manufacturing variability and the chips and the thermal paste provide some variability in MB's. I like my MacBook and it gets warm but it hasn't blistered it hasn't fried eggs, and it doesn't chirp.
The forums and the internet will have a natural bias towards the negative. I won't say that there isn't a problem with many MacBooks but I will say that it can be difficult to judge the extent of the problem from posts in forums. They are biased towards complaints.
I said buy a VAIO..