I will only obliquely mention what so many threads have already spoken to, only to say that Apple did the PDA right once, and that gives one faith that they'll do it right again. And you're right, that time it took them 6.5 years of R & D.
One big question this time is if it will be stylus or eMate-style.
--B
I even tried a rev. a Newton when it came out and I did not find it useful for me and it has even kept me from Palm devices. The Newton was too big and too limited in capabilities. Palms are smaller and have more functionality today but they are still too limited.
The UMPC is a bit bigger than a Palm. Here are a couple of Windows versions.
And you are correct coming up with the right compromise on screen size, memory and connectivity will make or break these devices. I don't know if it is stylus or eMate.
Since the UMPC is an Intel device with Core processor and Intel Chipset the software and drivers should not be that much of a stretch. The killer apps to differentiate the UMPC to something better than a glorified Palm is what will take commitment from Apple.
(and even with differentiation it will be called just another Palm/ iPaq, just like the iPod was just another MP3 player and they will be right.)
The processing power for hardwriting and voice recognition is now available on a low power processer (If you call 5-6 watts low power).
I even tried a rev. a Newton when it came out and I did not find it useful for me and it has even kept me from Palm devices. The Newton was too big and too limited in capabilities. Palms are smaller and have more functionality today but they are still too limited.
The UMPC is a bit bigger than a Palm. Here are a couple of Windows versions.
And you are correct coming up with the right compromise on screen size, memory and connectivity will make or break these devices. I don't know if it is stylus or eMate.
Since the UMPC is an Intel device with Core processor and Intel Chipset the software and drivers should not be that much of a stretch. The killer apps to differentiate the UMPC to something better than a glorified Palm is what will take commitment from Apple.
(and even with differentiation it will be called just another Palm/ iPaq, just like the iPod was just another MP3 player and they will be right.)
The processing power for hardwriting and voice recognition is now available on a low power processer (If you call 5-6 watts low power).
Thje Newton was as small and light as the technology of the day permitted. when the Palms came out, they were not only smaller and lighter, but not nearly as sophisticated. The screen rez was much lower, the cpu was much less powerful, and the OS was much simpler.
It couldn't do nearly as much as the Newton could.
the pity was that Jobs discontinued the Newton just as sales were taking off. The ver.2 OS was much improved over the older versions, as was the handwriting recognition. It's too bad they are not around today. You can be sure that if they were, they would be much thinner, and lighter than they were back then. You can also be assured that they would be much better than other competing devices.
Products evolve. My Treo 700p is a pretty great product, but then, it is lightyears ahead of those first models.
Nevertheless there is something I don't understand, can everyone help me out here?
What's the point of flash memory to "boot faster?" If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel...that would solve that problem. I can't believe they didn't add Hibernate in 10.1. Wouldn't it be just a few seconds slower than booting from flash? And perhaps faster, as it's restoring RAM, not even "booting." And as someone noted, Macs wake from sleep reliably...99% of the time.
So: there is no point to "waking up faster".
I thought the whole point would be to not have a hard drive, PERIOD. And run off of the Flash, thus saving power because there are no moving parts. Am I missing something? I bet that won't be for a while though because OS X itself takes up gigs, and needs gigs more to breathe with VM paging. So it sounds like it would need at least 16 gigs of NAND or so. How much would that be?
I think this product may come out but not in 2006. It sounds like the memory is still too expensive. By this time next year I'm sure 16 gigs of flash will be a few hundred. Then maybe something like this will come out.
Nevertheless there is something I don't understand, can everyone help me out here?
What's the point of flash memory to "boot faster?" If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel...that would solve that problem. I can't believe they didn't add Hibernate in 10.1. Wouldn't it be just a few seconds slower than booting from flash? And perhaps faster, as it's restoring RAM, not even "booting." And as someone noted, Macs wake from sleep reliably...99% of the time.
So: there is no point to "waking up faster".
I thought the whole point would be to not have a hard drive, PERIOD. And run off of the Flash, thus saving power because there are no moving parts. Am I missing something? I bet that won't be for a while though because OS X itself takes up gigs, and needs gigs more to breathe with VM paging. So it sounds like it would need at least 16 gigs of NAND or so. How much would that be?
I think this product may come out but not in 2006. It sounds like the memory is still too expensive. By this time next year I'm sure 16 gigs of flash will be a few hundred. Then maybe something like this will come out.
You're asking for several things at once. That's fine, but they contradict each other.
To Flash or not to flash, that is the problem.
Flash gives well over one million reads, but just over 100 thousand writes. It's fine for hibernate, but not yet good enough for a drive substitute.
People want faster. Then they want faster. After faster, they want one other thing ? faster! Flash can handle that better than any other technology. And, it's pretty cheap these days. I just bought a high speed 2GB SD card for my Treo 700p. It cost $40 at Newegg, and there were cheaper ones for sale.
RAM costs far more, and it won't get a boot any faster. The HD is far slower.
So, this is the best way to go.
By the way, the " If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel..." is a very good pun.
Nevertheless there is something I don't understand, can everyone help me out here?
What's the point of flash memory to "boot faster?" If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel...that would solve that problem. I can't believe they didn't add Hibernate in 10.1. Wouldn't it be just a few seconds slower than booting from flash? And perhaps faster, as it's restoring RAM, not even "booting." And as someone noted, Macs wake from sleep reliably...99% of the time.
So: there is no point to "waking up faster".
I thought the whole point would be to not have a hard drive, PERIOD. And run off of the Flash, thus saving power because there are no moving parts. Am I missing something? I bet that won't be for a while though because OS X itself takes up gigs, and needs gigs more to breathe with VM paging. So it sounds like it would need at least 16 gigs of NAND or so. How much would that be?
I think this product may come out but not in 2006. It sounds like the memory is still too expensive. By this time next year I'm sure 16 gigs of flash will be a few hundred. Then maybe something like this will come out.
They already have hibernate, it just isn't a shut down option.
Right before your laptop runs out of power it automatically hibernates.
If Apple do put this out, I will buy two; I no longer have the need for a super powerful laptop and don't want to carry it around all the times that I would like to do some light typing.
The size of a DVD case with expanding keyboard (think Palm), lite versions of your major Apple apps (Pages, iPhoto, Keynote, iCal), it would be a perfect briefcase machine. Of course, it needs video out to allow presentations.
Sony's Clie was a fantastic machine and they now have a great little sub note. If Apple got into this area they would do it really nice.
Something about half this size with Wifi G, bluetooth, iSight, audio in, audio out, HDMI, built in graphics. Low power. Operate from 8GB Flashdrive with 60 GB 1.8" harddrive for media and libraries.
iTunes other iLife apps, iWork for education with voice recognition for, voice command software, voice annotation, also include handwriting recognition (ala Newton) for notes. Stylus, NO Keyboard, no mouse. (Bluetooth will support keyboards or a mouse when required.)
Intel just announced that they started manufacturing 4Gbit, 50 nm Nand Flash parts.
Nothing new here it would just be packaging, integration and pricing.
It's a glorified iPod, or eStylus or eMate and it needs some Developer support and worthy of announcement at WWDC.
No keyboard would piss off enough people to generate a lot of buzz. If Apple makes it discolor after a while it will stay in the news longer.
They already have hibernate, it just isn't a shut down option.
Right before your laptop runs out of power it automatically hibernates.
Isn't that just sleep. Sleep means RAM is on, everything else pretty much, except perhaps maybe a few other small things, are off. In Hibernate, EVERYTHING is off. The machine is off. However, RAM contents are stored to the hard drive.
I think that would solve the problem. I mean Flash just for...booting faster? Like people have said, it barely takes a long time now, and Hibernate would be almost as fast as waking from sleep. So Flash doesn't have lots of write cycles.. Sounds like that needs fixing, and then it can be a drive replacement. If it doesn't entirely replace a hard disk drive, I don't see the point. At all. As in, what else is the purpose of a huge chunk of Flash? As I was saying, I see absolutely and completely no reason for this "fast boot from Flash" business.
Huh? That's just sleep. Sleep means RAM is on, everything else pretty much, except perhaps maybe a few other small things, are off. In Hibernate, EVERYTHING is off. The machine is off. However, RAM contents are stored to the hard drive.
You misunderstand the comment you replied to. That person knew what hibernate meant. OS X really does have a hibernate mode, but it isn't obvious to the user. By default, recent Apple portables only go to hibernate before the battery dies, that way the system state remains despite the loss of power.
The only means I know to turn it on by default (hybernate when you close the lid) is by a terminal command.
If you do not trust me or the person you replied to (you cut the writer's name out), just go to a search engine and type "OS X hibernate".
Good. Now it would be nice to have more control of that, and define as a user detailed on another page, that the system use Safe Sleep if the battery is low, and regular sleep if not. It would be neat if it was so smart it could even sleep for a while in regular mode and then by itself without prompting, go in to Safe Sleep when the battery was getting low. Getting there, getting there...Also it's apparently a software thing, would be nice to see Apple let people with older PowerBooks/iBooks use this, in 10.4.8.
This is an interesting, though tongue in cheek, comparison between the Messagepad 2000, and the new Samsung Q1. It just shows what Apple COULD have done if Jobs wasn't so eager to rid himself of everything that he didn't do at Apple, when he came back.
Just remember that this uses a painfully slow (by today's standards) cpu, and the OS, ver. 2.1, would likely be at ver. 8 or more today.
Comments
Originally posted by bergz
I will only obliquely mention what so many threads have already spoken to, only to say that Apple did the PDA right once, and that gives one faith that they'll do it right again. And you're right, that time it took them 6.5 years of R & D.
One big question this time is if it will be stylus or eMate-style.
--B
I even tried a rev. a Newton when it came out and I did not find it useful for me and it has even kept me from Palm devices. The Newton was too big and too limited in capabilities. Palms are smaller and have more functionality today but they are still too limited.
The UMPC is a bit bigger than a Palm. Here are a couple of Windows versions.
http://www.intel.com/design/mobile/platform/devices.htm
And you are correct coming up with the right compromise on screen size, memory and connectivity will make or break these devices. I don't know if it is stylus or eMate.
Since the UMPC is an Intel device with Core processor and Intel Chipset the software and drivers should not be that much of a stretch. The killer apps to differentiate the UMPC to something better than a glorified Palm is what will take commitment from Apple.
(and even with differentiation it will be called just another Palm/ iPaq, just like the iPod was just another MP3 player and they will be right.)
The processing power for hardwriting and voice recognition is now available on a low power processer (If you call 5-6 watts low power).
Originally posted by OriginalMacRat
MacBook Nano????
gyeah.
Originally posted by JTBLQ
gyeah.
Mac Duo 2 Duo
Originally posted by Silverdog
I even tried a rev. a Newton when it came out and I did not find it useful for me and it has even kept me from Palm devices. The Newton was too big and too limited in capabilities. Palms are smaller and have more functionality today but they are still too limited.
The UMPC is a bit bigger than a Palm. Here are a couple of Windows versions.
http://www.intel.com/design/mobile/platform/devices.htm
And you are correct coming up with the right compromise on screen size, memory and connectivity will make or break these devices. I don't know if it is stylus or eMate.
Since the UMPC is an Intel device with Core processor and Intel Chipset the software and drivers should not be that much of a stretch. The killer apps to differentiate the UMPC to something better than a glorified Palm is what will take commitment from Apple.
(and even with differentiation it will be called just another Palm/ iPaq, just like the iPod was just another MP3 player and they will be right.)
The processing power for hardwriting and voice recognition is now available on a low power processer (If you call 5-6 watts low power).
Thje Newton was as small and light as the technology of the day permitted. when the Palms came out, they were not only smaller and lighter, but not nearly as sophisticated. The screen rez was much lower, the cpu was much less powerful, and the OS was much simpler.
It couldn't do nearly as much as the Newton could.
the pity was that Jobs discontinued the Newton just as sales were taking off. The ver.2 OS was much improved over the older versions, as was the handwriting recognition. It's too bad they are not around today. You can be sure that if they were, they would be much thinner, and lighter than they were back then. You can also be assured that they would be much better than other competing devices.
Products evolve. My Treo 700p is a pretty great product, but then, it is lightyears ahead of those first models.
Originally posted by melgross
It's too bad they are not around today.
I think most Mac fiends know at least one other Mac fiend who still keeps a Newton in running condition. I know several. There's a love there.
--B
Originally posted by bergz
I think most Mac fiends know at least one other Mac fiend who still keeps a Newton in running condition. I know several. There's a love there.
--B
I do too. But I meant current production.
Mac Duo 2 Duo
But seriously...docking may come back in style.
Nevertheless there is something I don't understand, can everyone help me out here?
What's the point of flash memory to "boot faster?" If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel...that would solve that problem. I can't believe they didn't add Hibernate in 10.1. Wouldn't it be just a few seconds slower than booting from flash? And perhaps faster, as it's restoring RAM, not even "booting." And as someone noted, Macs wake from sleep reliably...99% of the time.
So: there is no point to "waking up faster".
I thought the whole point would be to not have a hard drive, PERIOD. And run off of the Flash, thus saving power because there are no moving parts. Am I missing something? I bet that won't be for a while though because OS X itself takes up gigs, and needs gigs more to breathe with VM paging. So it sounds like it would need at least 16 gigs of NAND or so. How much would that be?
I think this product may come out but not in 2006. It sounds like the memory is still too expensive. By this time next year I'm sure 16 gigs of flash will be a few hundred. Then maybe something like this will come out.
Originally posted by Aquatic
But seriously...docking may come back in style.
Nevertheless there is something I don't understand, can everyone help me out here?
What's the point of flash memory to "boot faster?" If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel...that would solve that problem. I can't believe they didn't add Hibernate in 10.1. Wouldn't it be just a few seconds slower than booting from flash? And perhaps faster, as it's restoring RAM, not even "booting." And as someone noted, Macs wake from sleep reliably...99% of the time.
So: there is no point to "waking up faster".
I thought the whole point would be to not have a hard drive, PERIOD. And run off of the Flash, thus saving power because there are no moving parts. Am I missing something? I bet that won't be for a while though because OS X itself takes up gigs, and needs gigs more to breathe with VM paging. So it sounds like it would need at least 16 gigs of NAND or so. How much would that be?
I think this product may come out but not in 2006. It sounds like the memory is still too expensive. By this time next year I'm sure 16 gigs of flash will be a few hundred. Then maybe something like this will come out.
You're asking for several things at once. That's fine, but they contradict each other.
To Flash or not to flash, that is the problem.
Flash gives well over one million reads, but just over 100 thousand writes. It's fine for hibernate, but not yet good enough for a drive substitute.
People want faster. Then they want faster. After faster, they want one other thing ? faster! Flash can handle that better than any other technology. And, it's pretty cheap these days. I just bought a high speed 2GB SD card for my Treo 700p. It cost $40 at Newegg, and there were cheaper ones for sale.
RAM costs far more, and it won't get a boot any faster. The HD is far slower.
So, this is the best way to go.
By the way, the " If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel..." is a very good pun.
Originally posted by Aquatic
But seriously...docking may come back in style.
Nevertheless there is something I don't understand, can everyone help me out here?
What's the point of flash memory to "boot faster?" If they simply added Hibernate like I tell them to do on the Feedback page every time they release a new OS X, always without Hibernate because someone at Apple's laptop unit is asleep at the wheel...that would solve that problem. I can't believe they didn't add Hibernate in 10.1. Wouldn't it be just a few seconds slower than booting from flash? And perhaps faster, as it's restoring RAM, not even "booting." And as someone noted, Macs wake from sleep reliably...99% of the time.
So: there is no point to "waking up faster".
I thought the whole point would be to not have a hard drive, PERIOD. And run off of the Flash, thus saving power because there are no moving parts. Am I missing something? I bet that won't be for a while though because OS X itself takes up gigs, and needs gigs more to breathe with VM paging. So it sounds like it would need at least 16 gigs of NAND or so. How much would that be?
I think this product may come out but not in 2006. It sounds like the memory is still too expensive. By this time next year I'm sure 16 gigs of flash will be a few hundred. Then maybe something like this will come out.
They already have hibernate, it just isn't a shut down option.
Right before your laptop runs out of power it automatically hibernates.
The size of a DVD case with expanding keyboard (think Palm), lite versions of your major Apple apps (Pages, iPhoto, Keynote, iCal), it would be a perfect briefcase machine. Of course, it needs video out to allow presentations.
Sony's Clie was a fantastic machine and they now have a great little sub note. If Apple got into this area they would do it really nice.
Come on Apple!
Originally posted by Bergermeister
I no longer have the need for a super powerful laptop and don't want to carry it around all the times that I would like to do some light typing.
Here is a device that Sony has been trying to get out for awhile at about $350. It looks a little limiting but it is a start.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/25/s...another-delay/
Something about half this size with Wifi G, bluetooth, iSight, audio in, audio out, HDMI, built in graphics. Low power. Operate from 8GB Flashdrive with 60 GB 1.8" harddrive for media and libraries.
iTunes other iLife apps, iWork for education with voice recognition for, voice command software, voice annotation, also include handwriting recognition (ala Newton) for notes. Stylus, NO Keyboard, no mouse. (Bluetooth will support keyboards or a mouse when required.)
Intel just announced that they started manufacturing 4Gbit, 50 nm Nand Flash parts.
Nothing new here it would just be packaging, integration and pricing.
It's a glorified iPod, or eStylus or eMate and it needs some Developer support and worthy of announcement at WWDC.
No keyboard would piss off enough people to generate a lot of buzz. If Apple makes it discolor after a while it will stay in the news longer.
Originally posted by OriginalMacRat
MacBook Nano????
MacBooklet
Quite clearly a touch-screen Mac OS tablet, woohooo!!
This is rather nice:
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/handhelds/0,...9282366,00.htm
They already have hibernate, it just isn't a shut down option.
Right before your laptop runs out of power it automatically hibernates.
Isn't that just sleep. Sleep means RAM is on, everything else pretty much, except perhaps maybe a few other small things, are off. In Hibernate, EVERYTHING is off. The machine is off. However, RAM contents are stored to the hard drive.
I think that would solve the problem. I mean Flash just for...booting faster? Like people have said, it barely takes a long time now, and Hibernate would be almost as fast as waking from sleep. So Flash doesn't have lots of write cycles.. Sounds like that needs fixing, and then it can be a drive replacement. If it doesn't entirely replace a hard disk drive, I don't see the point. At all. As in, what else is the purpose of a huge chunk of Flash? As I was saying, I see absolutely and completely no reason for this "fast boot from Flash" business.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Huh? That's just sleep. Sleep means RAM is on, everything else pretty much, except perhaps maybe a few other small things, are off. In Hibernate, EVERYTHING is off. The machine is off. However, RAM contents are stored to the hard drive.
You misunderstand the comment you replied to. That person knew what hibernate meant. OS X really does have a hibernate mode, but it isn't obvious to the user. By default, recent Apple portables only go to hibernate before the battery dies, that way the system state remains despite the loss of power.
The only means I know to turn it on by default (hybernate when you close the lid) is by a terminal command.
If you do not trust me or the person you replied to (you cut the writer's name out), just go to a search engine and type "OS X hibernate".
Originally posted by Aquatic
Isn't that just sleep.
No, it's hibernate.
http://andrewescobar.com/archive/200...leep-your-mac/
Good. Now it would be nice to have more control of that, and define as a user detailed on another page, that the system use Safe Sleep if the battery is low, and regular sleep if not. It would be neat if it was so smart it could even sleep for a while in regular mode and then by itself without prompting, go in to Safe Sleep when the battery was getting low. Getting there, getting there...Also it's apparently a software thing, would be nice to see Apple let people with older PowerBooks/iBooks use this, in 10.4.8.
Originally posted by Ireland
Apple seen delivering "ultra-portable" at Macworld
Quite clearly a touch-screen Mac OS tablet, woohooo!!
Can't tell if he is *actually* touching the screen?
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Perhaps Apple could just revamp the Newton, give the user the choice between b/w and color screens, and win the day.
This is rather nice:
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/handhelds/0,...9282366,00.htm
This is an interesting, though tongue in cheek, comparison between the Messagepad 2000, and the new Samsung Q1. It just shows what Apple COULD have done if Jobs wasn't so eager to rid himself of everything that he didn't do at Apple, when he came back.
Just remember that this uses a painfully slow (by today's standards) cpu, and the OS, ver. 2.1, would likely be at ver. 8 or more today.
http://digitalliving.cnet.co.uk/spec...9282099,00.htm