Lest anyone forget, 12" PB buyers shelled out $1800 retail for a machine much less capable than the 15 and 17" models. Many people would be more than happy to pay the same for a 3 pound machine they can carry at all times, unlike the bigger MB/MBP. Those who are fixated on maximum features severely underrate the attractiveness of maximum portability. When you're a student having to lug your laptop all around campus throughout a school day or a frequent business traveler who's already weighed down by a couple of carry-ons, small and light sells.
My 12" PB ran me $1680, with the bells and whistles without Applecare (which I should have bought... 2 HD replacements later). I agree, that people are willing to pay for portability, and they have shown that in the past. Though it might be noted that Apple has discontinued the 12" laptop from their lineup which means one of two things: Either it didn't make them enough profit, or they're waiting to release something to fill that slot.
Heck I wouldn't mind a relatively slow processor in an ultra-portable because the things I would do on it do not require vast amounts of processing power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H
I agree, absolutely. I think that Apple would benefit from having an ultra-portable. I'm just saying that if anyone expects it to cost less than around $1499, they'll be disappointed if/when it arrives.
I suppose that would make sense. Then it wouldn't compete with the MacBook, and would fit nicely between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. With that price though I would expect the same performance as the $1099 MacBook...
Heck I wouldn't mind a relatively slow processor in an ultra-portable because the things I would do on it do not require vast amounts of processing power.
Yep. My ancient 867MHz 12" PB can still handle everything I throw at it. Web surfing, email, Pages, Notes, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, watching DVDs and videos including h.264-encoded ones, Skype, scanning pages at the library, even some moderately light Photoshop work. Most of this couldn't be done on an upgraded iPod as someone suggested. Usually several tasks at once, with windows four or five levels deep on the screen -- again, not something you'd want to try with an iPod that has no windowing system or multitasking. I don't do live TV capture with my Firewire DV converter since I'm pretty sure it would drop frames, but that's an exception. I'm sure a Core Solo or Duo processor could satisfy me for another three or four years. Pity how Apple went from its "Big and Small" campaign when the 12" was introduced to today's "Big, Bigger and Biggest."
Of course, we have no idea as to whether Apple really intends to come out with a "touch-less" device.
But, I'm wondering if Apple was able to overcome the problems all such devices have had in the past. That is, none of these things have been accurate. The method only allows large areas to be selected. Meaning that if you need to put a cursor between two letters so as to delete one, you couldn't do it. Hitting one pixel to draw or select has been impossible, as the electrical, or magnetic, field gets too large at any appreciable distance from the screen. The lines of force follow curved paths. The further the path, the larger the circle. That's why HD heads have been getting ever closer to the surface. And why tape heads have to literally scrape the surface. Only lasers can work with very small dots.
I know that a pixel is much larger than that, but it can still be less than one hundredth of an inch in diameter. without actually having a stylus with a small tip touch a spot, I just don't see how this would be useful for anything other than selecting large areas.
No need of a stylus. The second *touch-sensitive display - touchpad* for the quick navigation on the main display is the solution - the presentation of an image on the main display is zoomed-in gradually.
Consider a smartphone if you can type an essay standing in the bus.
For every other use: buy a MacBook (Pro) and sit down.
Not only an essay - work with an AutoCAD project, for example - the full functionality of the desktop OS programs could be provided for a two displays mobile device.
No need of a stylus. The second *touch-sensitive display - touchpad* for the quick navigation on the main display is the solution - the presentation of an image on the main display is zoomed-in gradually.
The zoom helps, but is not a convenient way of working.
I suppose it's "good enough" for most users though.
Quote:
Not only an essay - work with an AutoCAD project, for example - the full functionality of the desktop OS programs could be provided for a two displays mobile device.
[/quote]
I wouldn't want to do that on a mobile device like this no matter what!
The zoom helps, but is not a convenient way of working.
I suppose it's "good enough" for most users though.
"Not only an essay - work with an AutoCAD project, for example - the full functionality of the desktop OS programs could be provided for a two displays mobile device."
I wouldn't want to do that on a mobile device like this no matter what!
The idea is to transfer the program tools, menu and dialogs to the second display-keyboard, that's a really flexible user interface no matter that the displays are ten times smaller than the displays on a designer's workplace. The power is in that they complement each other in the functionality - the main display is for the real-time presentation of the changes in a document (16:9 in a landscape mode for viewing the intermediate results of work, for example - photos, videos, 3D animation) and the second display-touchpad is for doing this effective interaction - that's a quantum leap. The imaginative process matters - you work with the same computer.
The idea is to transfer the program tools, menu and dialogs to the second display-keyboard, that's a really flexible user interface no matter that the displays are ten times smaller than the displays on a designer's workplace. The power is in that they complement each other in the functionality - the main display is for the real-time presentation of the changes in a document (16:9 in a landscape mode for viewing the intermediate results of work, for example - photos, videos, 3D animation) and the second display-touchpad is for doing this effective interaction - that's a quantum leap. The imaginative process matters - you work with the same computer.
I still can't see this as being useful for anything other than the simplest of work.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define the industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least on the support of the developers from these companies.
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define the industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least on the support of the developers from these companies.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define an overall industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least on the support of the developers from these companies.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define an overall industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least for the support of the developers from these companies.
While I take such market predictions with a large grain of salt it is certainly one growth area that Apple has the potential of domininating. I wonder how well TPCs did in 2006.
Mmm...probably better to be looking at a HMD and some other kind of interaction device than that tiny wierd keyboard and small trackpad/touchscreen.
Yours is a solution looking for a problem better solved in a more innovative way.
Vinea
Sure, if you want live in virtual reality you need a HMD. And if you want an universal device that functions as a computer you need an excellent tiny keyboard from HP 6915 with any PDA you like, for example.
The problem is that *two third* of mankind don't use Latin alphabet and existing models have no (mostly) or weird localization (when only the second language is supported and English is removed). That's reality. And that money the computer makers don't earn.
Sure, if you want live in virtual reality you need a HMD.
Or simply a large screen...pixel density is the primary issue in current gen consumer HMD systems (800x600 is still small even if it looks to be 40" across). In time these will get to 1024x768 level for a mobile HMD (and not cost 10K). OLEDs have taken a bit more time to mature than some folks had been hoping.
Quote:
And if you want an universal device that functions as a computer you need an excellent tiny keyboard from HP 6915 with any PDA you like, for example.
Which is pretty decent for texting and short emails but not so much to really do any work. Samsung's UMPC folding keyboard seems about the right size but its hard to tell without a reference object to gauge size with.
I haven't tried one of the laser keyboards but assuming you have enough space that's pretty compact.
Or simply a large screen...pixel density is the primary issue in current gen consumer HMD systems (800x600 is still small even if it looks to be 40" across). In time these will get to 1024x768 level for a mobile HMD (and not cost 10K). OLEDs have taken a bit more time to mature than some folks had been hoping.
That's wonderful. I wonder if ordinary TV sets will be replaced by HMDs. Personal TV - PTV. I mentioned the concept of a universal device and I think it's really worth to become available for consumers in the next several years as the technologies are developed enough for it - a mobile computer, phone, game console (like the Nintendo DS Lite in a notebook mode and like the Sony PSP in a tablet mode - the controls could be integrated into the hinge and the bottom of the keyboard part of the device), camera, media player (16:9 screen) and a remote control (like this - http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...ONTENTID=12498). The Cell Computer Project - the control panel (a central ring, F1-F8 keys) and two touch-sensitive displays with form factor of Motorola RAZR V3 (53x98 mm) is exactly right for all of these kinds of devices.
Quote:
Which is pretty decent for texting and short emails but not so much to really do any work. Samsung's UMPC folding keyboard seems about the right size but its hard to tell without a reference object to gauge size with.
I haven't tried one of the laser keyboards but assuming you have enough space that's pretty compact.
Vinea
Really, what's the point in a device working as a computer when it has no comfortable keyboard for text entry (the keyboard is a must as the main interface and it has to be separated from a desktop - the photo of Samsung's UMPC with a folding keyboard just confirms that) or in its projection on the same surface where a real keyboard could be placed for 10 $ ?
Comments
Lest anyone forget, 12" PB buyers shelled out $1800 retail for a machine much less capable than the 15 and 17" models. Many people would be more than happy to pay the same for a 3 pound machine they can carry at all times, unlike the bigger MB/MBP. Those who are fixated on maximum features severely underrate the attractiveness of maximum portability. When you're a student having to lug your laptop all around campus throughout a school day or a frequent business traveler who's already weighed down by a couple of carry-ons, small and light sells.
My 12" PB ran me $1680, with the bells and whistles without Applecare (which I should have bought... 2 HD replacements later). I agree, that people are willing to pay for portability, and they have shown that in the past. Though it might be noted that Apple has discontinued the 12" laptop from their lineup which means one of two things: Either it didn't make them enough profit, or they're waiting to release something to fill that slot.
Heck I wouldn't mind a relatively slow processor in an ultra-portable because the things I would do on it do not require vast amounts of processing power.
I agree, absolutely. I think that Apple would benefit from having an ultra-portable. I'm just saying that if anyone expects it to cost less than around $1499, they'll be disappointed if/when it arrives.
I suppose that would make sense. Then it wouldn't compete with the MacBook, and would fit nicely between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. With that price though I would expect the same performance as the $1099 MacBook...
Heck I wouldn't mind a relatively slow processor in an ultra-portable because the things I would do on it do not require vast amounts of processing power.
Yep. My ancient 867MHz 12" PB can still handle everything I throw at it. Web surfing, email, Pages, Notes, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, watching DVDs and videos including h.264-encoded ones, Skype, scanning pages at the library, even some moderately light Photoshop work. Most of this couldn't be done on an upgraded iPod as someone suggested. Usually several tasks at once, with windows four or five levels deep on the screen -- again, not something you'd want to try with an iPod that has no windowing system or multitasking. I don't do live TV capture with my Firewire DV converter since I'm pretty sure it would drop frames, but that's an exception. I'm sure a Core Solo or Duo processor could satisfy me for another three or four years. Pity how Apple went from its "Big and Small" campaign when the 12" was introduced to today's "Big, Bigger and Biggest."
-New iTablet/iMPC Slogan
Of course, we have no idea as to whether Apple really intends to come out with a "touch-less" device.
But, I'm wondering if Apple was able to overcome the problems all such devices have had in the past. That is, none of these things have been accurate. The method only allows large areas to be selected. Meaning that if you need to put a cursor between two letters so as to delete one, you couldn't do it. Hitting one pixel to draw or select has been impossible, as the electrical, or magnetic, field gets too large at any appreciable distance from the screen. The lines of force follow curved paths. The further the path, the larger the circle. That's why HD heads have been getting ever closer to the surface. And why tape heads have to literally scrape the surface. Only lasers can work with very small dots.
I know that a pixel is much larger than that, but it can still be less than one hundredth of an inch in diameter. without actually having a stylus with a small tip touch a spot, I just don't see how this would be useful for anything other than selecting large areas.
No need of a stylus. The second *touch-sensitive display - touchpad* for the quick navigation on the main display is the solution - the presentation of an image on the main display is zoomed-in gradually.
Cell Computer Project
http://geocities.com/gene_technics
Consider a smartphone if you can type an essay standing in the bus.
For every other use: buy a MacBook (Pro) and sit down.
Not only an essay - work with an AutoCAD project, for example - the full functionality of the desktop OS programs could be provided for a two displays mobile device.
Samsung's new UMPC supports WiMAX. Pretty cool. Read about it here.
No need of a stylus. The second *touch-sensitive display - touchpad* for the quick navigation on the main display is the solution - the presentation of an image on the main display is zoomed-in gradually.
Cell Computer Project
http://geocities.com/gene_technics
The zoom helps, but is not a convenient way of working.
I suppose it's "good enough" for most users though.
Not only an essay - work with an AutoCAD project, for example - the full functionality of the desktop OS programs could be provided for a two displays mobile device.
[/quote]
I wouldn't want to do that on a mobile device like this no matter what!
The zoom helps, but is not a convenient way of working.
I suppose it's "good enough" for most users though.
"Not only an essay - work with an AutoCAD project, for example - the full functionality of the desktop OS programs could be provided for a two displays mobile device."
I wouldn't want to do that on a mobile device like this no matter what!
The idea is to transfer the program tools, menu and dialogs to the second display-keyboard, that's a really flexible user interface no matter that the displays are ten times smaller than the displays on a designer's workplace. The power is in that they complement each other in the functionality - the main display is for the real-time presentation of the changes in a document (16:9 in a landscape mode for viewing the intermediate results of work, for example - photos, videos, 3D animation) and the second display-touchpad is for doing this effective interaction - that's a quantum leap. The imaginative process matters - you work with the same computer.
The idea is to transfer the program tools, menu and dialogs to the second display-keyboard, that's a really flexible user interface no matter that the displays are ten times smaller than the displays on a designer's workplace. The power is in that they complement each other in the functionality - the main display is for the real-time presentation of the changes in a document (16:9 in a landscape mode for viewing the intermediate results of work, for example - photos, videos, 3D animation) and the second display-touchpad is for doing this effective interaction - that's a quantum leap. The imaginative process matters - you work with the same computer.
I still can't see this as being useful for anything other than the simplest of work.
I still can't see this as being useful for anything other than the simplest of work.
That's it. A simple editing of a big project on the way to work or home.
That's it. A simple editing of a big project on the way to work or home.
Well, perhaps.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, perhaps.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define the industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least on the support of the developers from these companies.
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define the industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least on the support of the developers from these companies.
I don't see any of those companies supporting it.
Well, perhaps.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define an overall industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least on the support of the developers from these companies.
Well, perhaps.
But you mentioned CAD. I can't see doing of my CAD work on a machine like this. Even if it is on the way home from work.
What do you really expect to be doing, given that there will be a question of usable software for it anyway?
Well, it requires the support of the concept a cell computer by the big companies that define an overall industry strategy - Apple, Microsoft, Intel. I'm just doing my best and hoping at least for the support of the developers from these companies.
Yours is a solution looking for a problem better solved in a more innovative way.
Vinea
.5% of the PC market.
$1.2B market in 2004.
http://www.instat.com/press.asp?ID=1413&sku=IN0501830ID
While I take such market predictions with a large grain of salt it is certainly one growth area that Apple has the potential of domininating. I wonder how well TPCs did in 2006.
Vinea
Mmm...probably better to be looking at a HMD and some other kind of interaction device than that tiny wierd keyboard and small trackpad/touchscreen.
Yours is a solution looking for a problem better solved in a more innovative way.
Vinea
Sure, if you want live in virtual reality you need a HMD. And if you want an universal device that functions as a computer you need an excellent tiny keyboard from HP 6915 with any PDA you like, for example.
The problem is that *two third* of mankind don't use Latin alphabet and existing models have no (mostly) or weird localization (when only the second language is supported and English is removed). That's reality. And that money the computer makers don't earn.
Sure, if you want live in virtual reality you need a HMD.
Or simply a large screen...pixel density is the primary issue in current gen consumer HMD systems (800x600 is still small even if it looks to be 40" across). In time these will get to 1024x768 level for a mobile HMD (and not cost 10K). OLEDs have taken a bit more time to mature than some folks had been hoping.
And if you want an universal device that functions as a computer you need an excellent tiny keyboard from HP 6915 with any PDA you like, for example.
Which is pretty decent for texting and short emails but not so much to really do any work. Samsung's UMPC folding keyboard seems about the right size but its hard to tell without a reference object to gauge size with.
I haven't tried one of the laser keyboards but assuming you have enough space that's pretty compact.
Vinea
Or simply a large screen...pixel density is the primary issue in current gen consumer HMD systems (800x600 is still small even if it looks to be 40" across). In time these will get to 1024x768 level for a mobile HMD (and not cost 10K). OLEDs have taken a bit more time to mature than some folks had been hoping.
That's wonderful. I wonder if ordinary TV sets will be replaced by HMDs. Personal TV - PTV. I mentioned the concept of a universal device and I think it's really worth to become available for consumers in the next several years as the technologies are developed enough for it - a mobile computer, phone, game console (like the Nintendo DS Lite in a notebook mode and like the Sony PSP in a tablet mode - the controls could be integrated into the hinge and the bottom of the keyboard part of the device), camera, media player (16:9 screen) and a remote control (like this - http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...ONTENTID=12498). The Cell Computer Project - the control panel (a central ring, F1-F8 keys) and two touch-sensitive displays with form factor of Motorola RAZR V3 (53x98 mm) is exactly right for all of these kinds of devices.
Which is pretty decent for texting and short emails but not so much to really do any work. Samsung's UMPC folding keyboard seems about the right size but its hard to tell without a reference object to gauge size with.
I haven't tried one of the laser keyboards but assuming you have enough space that's pretty compact.
Vinea
Really, what's the point in a device working as a computer when it has no comfortable keyboard for text entry (the keyboard is a must as the main interface and it has to be separated from a desktop - the photo of Samsung's UMPC with a folding keyboard just confirms that) or in its projection on the same surface where a real keyboard could be placed for 10 $ ?
... or in its projection on the same surface where a real keyboard could be placed for 10 $ ?
Size of the device. Keyboards are big, lasers are not.