xRAHx

indiebug said:

EU commission head is targeting Apple either because she has clandestinely sided with its competitors or as a means to milk American companies which are far ahead of European counterparts. EU is literally finding ways to squeeze money out of American tech giants. EU s policies are based on protectionism and jealousy towards Big American brands. This is awful and anyone with common sense can understand. Interoperability- nonsense. Next, make iMovie compatible with android. Why does not Microsoft make windows compatible with Mac? Why no android on iPhone.  All nonsensical hogwash 

The EU commission requires owners of market-dominating operating systems not to set their own browsers as the default, but to show users a selection of competing browsers during setup, from which they should choose one as the default.

The EU commission wants the owners of the market-dominating operating systems not to prevent app developers from advertising the sale of licenses in their own apps. 

European iOS and iPadOS users shall become free to choose who they want to buy apps and content from. Apple shall not stay the monopoly reseller of apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU. The EU does not want Apple to be able to continue to prevent certain apps from being available on iOS and iPadOS. European Users of iOS and iPadOS shall become able to freely develop, distribute, install, sell and buy apps for iOS and iPadOS.

That is more freedom for European users, that is more freedom for developers all over the world who want to sell apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU, that is less freedom for Apple in the EU.

The EU commission demands that the owners of the market-dominating operating systems do not use the APIs of the operating systems exclusively for themselves, but that the owners of these operating systems allow all app developers to use the APIs of the operating systems so that there are more better applications that run on all operating systems.

The EU commission does not require Apple to develop apps for other operating systems.

avon b7 said:

And how did you reach the conclusion that the EU wants to *make* Apple release a product or feature in the EU? 

She didn't say that. She said this:

"I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already."

Firstly, it's clearly a personal opinion, and secondly, at this point in time at least, it is not far off the mark with regards to Apple's 'competition' issues within the EU. 

I concur.

Margrethe Vestager 

“So Apple have said that they will not launch their new AI-enabled features in the IRS environment [the EU], and they say that they will not do that because of the obligations that they have in Europe. And the obligations that they have in Europe, it is to be open for competition, that is sort of the short version of the DMA. And I find that very interesting that they say we will now deploy AI where we’re not obliged to enable competition. I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already.”

Source: www.youtube.com/live/GmQ5SsMFbsU?t=4592

Some background:

Margrethe Vestager is the “Executive Vice President of the European Commission for a Europe Fit for the Digital Age”. The European Commission (EC) is part of the executive of the European Union (EU). It operates as a cabinet government, with 27 members of the Commission (directorial system, informally known as "Commissioners") headed by a President. There is one member per member state, but members are bound by their oath of office to represent the general interest of the EU as a whole rather than their home state. The EU Commission does not do anything that has not been agreed with the national governments of the EU member states.

Some numbers:

US GDP:  $28.781 trillion

EU GDP: $25.399 trillion

China GDP: $35.291 trillion

US population: 334,914,895

EU population: 448,387,872

China population: 1,409,670,000

My conclusion:

Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.

Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc. 

The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.

It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.

9secondkox2 said:

foregoneconclusion said:

xRAHx said:

indiebug said:

EU commission head is targeting Apple either because she has clandestinely sided with its competitors or as a means to milk American companies which are far ahead of European counterparts. EU is literally finding ways to squeeze money out of American tech giants. EU s policies are based on protectionism and jealousy towards Big American brands. This is awful and anyone with common sense can understand. Interoperability- nonsense. Next, make iMovie compatible with android. Why does not Microsoft make windows compatible with Mac? Why no android on iPhone.  All nonsensical hogwash 

The EU commission requires owners of market-dominating operating systems not to set their own browsers as the default, but to show users a selection of competing browsers during setup, from which they should choose one as the default.

The EU commission wants the owners of the market-dominating operating systems not to prevent app developers from advertising the sale of licenses in their own apps. 

European iOS and iPadOS users shall become free to choose who they want to buy apps and content from. Apple shall not stay the monopoly reseller of apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU. The EU does not want Apple to be able to continue to prevent certain apps from being available on iOS and iPadOS. European Users of iOS and iPadOS shall become able to freely develop, distribute, install, sell and buy apps for iOS and iPadOS.

That is more freedom for European users, that is more freedom for developers all over the world who want to sell apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU, that is less freedom for Apple in the EU.

The EU commission demands that the owners of the market-dominating operating systems do not use the APIs of the operating systems exclusively for themselves, but that the owners of these operating systems allow all app developers to use the APIs of the operating systems so that there are more better applications that run on all operating systems.

The EU commission does not require Apple to develop apps for other operating systems.

First point: I don't think anyone has much of an issue with this. The EU does also require Apple to allow browsers to use their own engine.

Second: Not sure why the EU thinks this is important. Advertising licenses inside an app is not typical for any platform. Smartphone users also have access to all kinds of information outside of apps and the App Store on the same device...internet, social media, email, text messages, direct messages etc. Basically, you have to pretend that smartphone users aren't aware that they can get information about developers and their products/services anywhere other than inside apps or the App Store in order to think this is important.

Third: Apple monopolizes app distribution because iOS/iPadOS and iPhone/iPad hardware are their own IP. That formula has been around for decades and was never previously considered to be anti-competitive since there is a high degree of difficulty in achieving success with it commercially. Think of all the various video game consoles that have either flopped or been unable to maintain viability in the long run. Think of Microsoft's attempt at a smartphone. It's not a magic formula for market dominance. Apple does have limits for what it allows to be sold in the App Store but that is true of any store...digital or brick/mortar. For the most part though, it's really the app developers that choose whether or not to provide their apps on iOS. Example: Microsoft made a big stink about its game streaming app not being allowed on the App Store but they had never previously ported 1st party games to the App Store either. They preferred to limit their own gaming apps to Windows/Xbox.

Fourth: Requiring access to APIs across the board is kind of an odd stance since not every API can be linked to market competition. I can see how it makes sense for something like NFC/Wallet or the browser engine aspect, i.e., targeted situations. This seems like a big overreach on the part of the EU similar to the third point above.  

Great points. 

No one goes to target or wal mart to find information about what else is available from a handbag maker - or if there are any vendor-specific sales better than what’s at that brick and mortar store. 

They use the internet, advertising in tv, radio, direct mail, etc. 

when you go to a Mercedes dealership, they don’t have to post up signs telling you that a certain bmw can be had cheaper for similar horsepower, etc. 

in the smartphone, you have the whole internet at your disposal. People know what search engines and websites are. Sheesh. It’s not kindergarten where you don’t know something unless it’s in front of you at all times. 

It’s really quite embarrassing that the eu is forcing a tech company to divert customers to vendors own separate stores -inside their own store. 

It’s a solution looking for a problem and has indeed become the problem. 

Brick and mortar stores have digital storefronts/apps. To be fair, that’s a digital market and would need to force them to have a sign next to the Kilauea bananas item in the apps that directed them to Klause’s stall down the street where he sells cheaper because of less overhead. It’s the height of stupidity. 

In the EU, apart from the youngest children, almost 100 percent of citizens use a smartphone. No more than 30 percent of EU citizens use games consoles.

Smartphones are (vitally) important. Game consoles are not important.

Smartphones are now regulated in the EU. Games consoles may be regulated later.

There are two operating systems for smartphones: Android and iOS. Alphabet/Google and Apple have a duopoly here.

Google and Apple have agreed that the Google search engine will be the default setting on all smartphones. They made it obvious that they want to manipulate the owners of smartphones in order so squeeze money out of them.

A smartphone is a computer that is connected to the Internet and GPS and can be used to make phone calls, take photos, navigate, chat, read and listen.

Anyone who has bought a computer for 1000+ dollars/euros in the EU shall now be able to decide freely in the EU from whom they buy software for this computer.

The EU has changed the law exactly for this. It doesn't matter what was allowed before. Now it's different. There is a new law.

The EU wants freedom for EU citizens who own computers called smartphones. The owners of the computers shall decide where they buy software. Not Google. Not Apple.

Apple doesn't want that. A minority of Apple users in the EU don't want that either, because they are afraid. The majority of citizens in the EU, however, want to be free to decide from whom they can buy software for their computers that they have already paid for.

The EU wants this rule to apply to both Android and Apple. That's just how it works. This is not unusual in the EU.