Intentionally omitting features as retaliation? Yeah, Apple is gonna LOVE the multi-billion fine for this little stunt.
The EU is done playing. Apple will behave, or they will PAY.
Or, shocker, Apple will leave the EU altogether. Companies are “for profit” entities and publicly traded ones like Apple have an obligation to the their shareholders to act in their interests. Loss of the EU market will hurt but paying out more in fines than you earn in profit makes no sense.
The EU wants smartphones to be like PCs where there is little differentiation between vendors and profit is mainly derived from directed advertising and sale of consumer data. As an American, I am perfectly content to let Europe live in that world but I definitely hope they don’t drag me into it.
Point taken. Nice to see that the EC stays sharp as a knife against companies taking competition laws lightly.
if Apple won’t make Apple Intelligence aka OpenAI with an Apple layer, then users can still do without the layer
Of course EU users can use ChatGPT without Apple (at least until OpenAI becomes a Gatekeeper under the DMA) but Apple Intelligence is far more than a wrapper for ChatGPT. Nor is Apple Intelligence the only feature impacted.
Every time I read one of these EU stories I try to think about what Apple should do to deal with this situation. It’s tempting to say Apple should just leave, but it doesn’t make sense to leave money on the table.
They won't be leaving money on the table by pulling out of the EU. First, the EU is just a fraction of what Apple classifies as "Europe" (which includes the Middle East and at least parts, if not all, of Africa), and obviously doesn't include European countries not in the EU, such as the UK and Switzerland. The fines the EU is threatening far eclipse the value of the EU as a market. Second, if EU rules force Apple to cripple, compromise or otherwise dumb down their products, that makes them less competitive in the rest of the world. There is at this point almost no upside for Apple to release anything in the EU and plenty of downside, not to mention all the resources wasted "negotiating" with EU bureaucrats who are not acting in good faith and are making up the rules as the go and changing them retroactively.
So, what exactly is the downside for Apple to simply pull out of the EU until there is a more favorable business climate there? I can't see any upside to staying at this point.
I’ve read that the EU represents about 7% of Apple’s revenues. That’s almost $30 billion a year. I see no reason to walk away from that if you don’t have to.
Note that my suggestion to create a subsidiary is meant to create EU-specific (lobotomized) versions of apple products to meet the needs of Eurocrats.
The question is — can Apple make money selling lobotomized products? Since everyone else also has to sell lobotomized products in the EU, it’s possible that they can. But if it turns out they can’t, then sure — leave. But I think it makes sense to try first.
Companies that don’t try to do hard things end up like IBM — slowly leaving every market that seems too hard to fight for.
IBM has a PE under 20, meaning it’s more profitable per share than Apple
The EU is cluelessly penny wise and pound foolish, and that is going to cost them dearly. Once they start badly affecting the economy and the lives of their members , the union will shatter. All because of some greedy SOBs who want a free ride on the back of innovators.
I say let them fall behind and the remaining members will follow in the foot steps of Great Britain to save themselves.
"Specifically, we are concerned that the interoperability requirements of the DMA could force us to compromise the integrity of our products in ways that risk user privacy and data security," said Apple. "We are committed to collaborating with the European Commission in an attempt to find a solution that would enable us to deliver these features to our EU customers without compromising their safety."
And then this:
"From previous statements including ones to AppleInsider, it's known that Apple has been continually working with the EU on its responses to the DMA, so it's reasonable to assume that will continue.
Leads to the question: Why even bother putting the subject into the public domain if communication and clarification are ongoing?
Far better to say as little as possible until things are clarified. All it takes is clarification and all for a roll out that isn't even planned for this year!
Basically FUD on Apple's part and Vestager has a valid point in her response to a question that wouldn't have been asked if it weren't for Apple.
Basically FUD on the part of EU-loving commenters. Apple has a right to provide whatever capabilities it wants to in whatever country/region it wants to. You're buying a product with certain features. There's nothing that says Apple has to provide the EU with everything it has the capability of including. The EU can demand Apple provide everything but that's not the way companies work. This is a brand new Apple capability and Apple has the right to provide it when they feel it's ready, not when a corrupt EU demands it. At this point, I feel Apple is well within its rights to start charging for features in countries it wants to. As far as I'm concerned, Apple should start charging for macOS, iOS, tvOS, iPadOS along with every Apple app and feature it wants to. I'd like to see the EU try and force Apple to provide everything for free. It isn't going to happen.
No one is disputing Apple's right to bring or not bring certain features to the EU. That is up to them and is irrelevant here.
The point is 'making a meal out of something' and putting it down to the DMA even when Apple itself claims it's in contact with the EU on the subject and also claims not to know what is possible or not.
It's all completely unnecessary on Apple's part. Why not simply ask the EU and wait for a reply?
Because the EU doesn't KNOW what it is doing, or what it wants. It is literally just demanding to be part of every discussion any company has on a product - just because they can. They are worried only about shaking down companies at this point. I am fine with regulation but this really is an example of where it gets ridiculous. The EU mandates with set Europe even farther behind the US and Air when it comes to tech. Again - name any European company in the recent past to have any important impact on consumer devices....zero. Software, a few. I look forward to Apple setting Europe back even farther.
"Specifically, we are concerned that the interoperability requirements of the DMA could force us to compromise the integrity of our products in ways that risk user privacy and data security," said Apple. "We are committed to collaborating with the European Commission in an attempt to find a solution that would enable us to deliver these features to our EU customers without compromising their safety."
And then this:
"From previous statements including ones to AppleInsider, it's known that Apple has been continually working with the EU on its responses to the DMA, so it's reasonable to assume that will continue.
Leads to the question: Why even bother putting the subject into the public domain if communication and clarification are ongoing?
Far better to say as little as possible until things are clarified. All it takes is clarification and all for a roll out that isn't even planned for this year!
Basically FUD on Apple's part and Vestager has a valid point in her response to a question that wouldn't have been asked if it weren't for Apple.
Basically FUD on the part of EU-loving commenters. Apple has a right to provide whatever capabilities it wants to in whatever country/region it wants to. You're buying a product with certain features. There's nothing that says Apple has to provide the EU with everything it has the capability of including. The EU can demand Apple provide everything but that's not the way companies work. This is a brand new Apple capability and Apple has the right to provide it when they feel it's ready, not when a corrupt EU demands it. At this point, I feel Apple is well within its rights to start charging for features in countries it wants to. As far as I'm concerned, Apple should start charging for macOS, iOS, tvOS, iPadOS along with every Apple app and feature it wants to. I'd like to see the EU try and force Apple to provide everything for free. It isn't going to happen.
No one is disputing Apple's right to bring or not bring certain features to the EU. That is up to them and is irrelevant here.
The point is 'making a meal out of something' and putting it down to the DMA even when Apple itself claims it's in contact with the EU on the subject and also claims not to know what is possible or not.
It's all completely unnecessary on Apple's part. Why not simply ask the EU and wait for a reply?
Maybe Apple feels a bit of obligation to both inform its EU customer base and to disclose to its investors information that might be material to its business.
Hardly. We are talking about features that in all probability were never mapped to see the light of day in the EU until next year. They won't even fully reach the US until next year.
It was completely unnecessary on Apple's part and if it were 'material to its business', much better to tread carefully and not speculate when they quite clearly haven't clarified with the relevant bodies what the requirements are.
EU fanboys: “Follow the DMA or don’t release in our market!”
Apple: “Ok.” (doesn’t release)
EU fanboys: “You can’t do that! Come back here, mister!”
…lol. Sorry dudes, you can’t *make* a company release the products or features you want. This is still a private business, not a state-run entity.
And how did you reach the conclusion that the EU wants to *make* Apple release a product or feature in the EU?
She didn't say that. She said this:
"I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already."
Firstly, it's clearly a personal opinion, and secondly, at this point in time at least, it is not far off the mark with regards to Apple's 'competition' issues within the EU.
avon b7 said: It's all completely unnecessary on Apple's part. Why not simply ask the EU and wait for a reply?
That's what they're doing: putting the new AI features on hold while they communicate with the EU per the DMA requirements. Note that Apple was in communication with the EU about the anti-steering changes in the DMA and now the EU is saying there's something wrong with what Apple did.
What was unnecessary was the need to make a fuss out of things. Totally unnecessary.
If they had simply asked and waited for a reply we wouldn't even be talking about this now. No one would have brought the question up in the first place. Vestager wouldn't have said anything.
But no, Apple decided to FUD things up.
That's their call but it's pretty foolish, petty and probably won't help in the bigger scheme of things.
Apple’s going for friction so... so be it.
It is absolutely hilarious to me that random retired people in Spain believe themselves in a position to claim the security position of engineers and product owners of the actual software are simply spreading FUD.
The Dunning-Krueger effect is strong!
It's even more hilarious that some random US guy is implying that that someone is claiming engineers are spreading FUD.
No. Apple is on that train. The DSA/DMA are competition focused and that is the base of what Vestager has spoken about.
Not that security is even relevant at this point, but there you go, Apple couldn't resist.
Let's wait and see what the EU actually says before jumping the gun. Isn't that a better option?
After all, if you are communicating with the relevant bodies, the least you can do is hear them out, right?
And how did you reach the conclusion that the EU wants to *make* Apple release a product or feature in the EU?
She didn't say that. She said this:
"I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already."
Firstly, it's clearly a personal opinion, and secondly, at this point in time at least, it is not far off the mark with regards to Apple's 'competition' issues within the EU.
I concur.
Margrethe Vestager
“So Apple have said that they will not launch their new AI-enabled features in the IRS environment [the EU], and they say that they will not do that because of the obligations that they have in Europe. And the obligations that they have in Europe, it is to be open for competition, that is sort of the short version of the DMA. And I find that very interesting that they say we will now deploy AI where we’re not obliged to enable competition. I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already.”
Source: www.youtube.com/live/GmQ5SsMFbsU?t=4592
Some background:
Margrethe Vestager is the “Executive Vice President of the European Commission for a Europe Fit for the Digital Age”. The European Commission (EC) is part of the executive of the European Union (EU). It operates as a cabinet government, with 27 members of the Commission (directorial system, informally known as "Commissioners") headed by a President. There is one member per member state, but members are bound by their oath of office to represent the general interest of the EU as a whole rather than their home state. The EU Commission does not do anything that has not been agreed with the national governments of the EU member states.
Some numbers:
US GDP: $28.781 trillion
EU GDP: $25.399 trillion
China GDP: $35.291 trillion
US population: 334,914,895
EU population: 448,387,872
China population: 1,409,670,000
My conclusion:
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
EU commission head is targeting Apple either because she has clandestinely sided with its competitors or as a means to milk American companies which are far ahead of European counterparts. EU is literally finding ways to squeeze money out of American tech giants. EU s policies are based on protectionism and jealousy towards Big American brands. This is awful and anyone with common sense can understand. Interoperability- nonsense. Next, make iMovie compatible with android. Why does not Microsoft make windows compatible with Mac? Why no android on iPhone. All nonsensical hogwash
Every time I read one of these EU stories I try to think about what Apple should do to deal with this situation. It’s tempting to say Apple should just leave, but it doesn’t make sense to leave money on the table.
They won't be leaving money on the table by pulling out of the EU. First, the EU is just a fraction of what Apple classifies as "Europe" (which includes the Middle East and at least parts, if not all, of Africa), and obviously doesn't include European countries not in the EU, such as the UK and Switzerland. The fines the EU is threatening far eclipse the value of the EU as a market. Second, if EU rules force Apple to cripple, compromise or otherwise dumb down their products, that makes them less competitive in the rest of the world. There is at this point almost no upside for Apple to release anything in the EU and plenty of downside, not to mention all the resources wasted "negotiating" with EU bureaucrats who are not acting in good faith and are making up the rules as the go and changing them retroactively.
So, what exactly is the downside for Apple to simply pull out of the EU until there is a more favorable business climate there? I can't see any upside to staying at this point.
I’ve read that the EU represents about 7% of Apple’s revenues. That’s almost $30 billion a year. I see no reason to walk away from that if you don’t have to.
I think it's less than that because Apple doesn't break out revenue for the EU as such, only "Europe" which includes the Middle East and Africa. Even actual Europe, you have to drop out revenue from non members of the EU like the UK and Switzerland.
But, even if it is 7%, if they are threatening you with fines of 10%, seems like a no brainer to drop that market. Why sell for a loss?
The point is to avoid the fine by complying with the law. That is, I’m saying Apple should swallow their pride and sell the dumb products that the EC demands. It might be bad for consumers but that’s on the EC. And only sell the lobotomized product in the EU, obviously.
Let the baby have its bottle.
Unless it turns out to be impossible to please the baby, and then leave.
It’s also better from a PR perspective to let people see that it’s the EC that’s being unreasonable. How they handle this in Europe can affect laws and regulations elsewhere. Apple needs to be seen as the good guys, the EU as the bad guys, so that politicians in other countries conclude they don’t want to follow the EU example
Well, Apple has already said it will sell the EU the dumbed down products and the EU (Vestager) has said publicly that that is unacceptable, so I think we've already moved well past that point. (Apparently, Microsoft is in trouble for not selling the dumbed down product, so with the EU it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.)
So cry Apple a river.
I said earlier they are not singled out by the EU, being treated unfairly as compared to their tech brethren. You can be forgiven for believing that if the only news you read is from Apple fan sites or Apple News.
Google is being investigated for some of the same compliance issues as Apple is. Meta has a problem with required Messages and WhatsApp 3rd party interoperability while maintaining encryption, and how to do so in a way that pleases the EU. Amazon and Microsoft have their own DMA non-compliance issues, as referenced in the following document. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1689
So poor, poor picked on Apple? Not. They'll survive just as the others will, all of whom will figure out how best to continue profiting from EU customers.
Not sure what you're reacting to. The person you quoted didn't say Apple was being singled out -- in fact, specifically referenced that Microsoft has also been snared.
Well, gatorguy just likes to disagree with me, so he always tries to find a way.
My sincere apologies. It wasn't your post I meant to respond to.
Ok, well, we can't start being nice to each other now, people will talk.
EU commission head is targeting Apple either because she has clandestinely sided with its competitors or as a means to milk American companies which are far ahead of European counterparts. EU is literally finding ways to squeeze money out of American tech giants. EU s policies are based on protectionism and jealousy towards Big American brands. This is awful and anyone with common sense can understand. Interoperability- nonsense. Next, make iMovie compatible with android. Why does not Microsoft make windows compatible with Mac? Why no android on iPhone. All nonsensical hogwash
The EU commission requires owners of market-dominating operating systems not to set their own browsers as the default, but to show users a selection of competing browsers during setup, from which they should choose one as the default.
The EU commission wants the owners of the market-dominating operating systems not to prevent app developers from advertising the sale of licenses in their own apps.
European iOS and iPadOS users shall become free to choose who they want to buy apps and content from. Apple shall not stay the monopoly reseller of apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU. The EU does not want Apple to be able to continue to prevent certain apps from being available on iOS and iPadOS. European Users of iOS and iPadOS shall become able to freely develop, distribute, install, sell and buy apps for iOS and iPadOS.
That is more freedom for European users, that is more freedom for developers all over the world who want to sell apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU, that is less freedom for Apple in the EU.
The EU commission demands that the owners of the market-dominating operating systems do not use the APIs of the operating systems exclusively for themselves, but that the owners of these operating systems allow all app developers to use the APIs of the operating systems so that there are more better applications that run on all operating systems.
The EU commission does not require Apple to develop apps for other operating systems.
Every time I read one of these EU stories I try to think about what Apple should do to deal with this situation. It’s tempting to say Apple should just leave, but it doesn’t make sense to leave money on the table.
They won't be leaving money on the table by pulling out of the EU. First, the EU is just a fraction of what Apple classifies as "Europe" (which includes the Middle East and at least parts, if not all, of Africa), and obviously doesn't include European countries not in the EU, such as the UK and Switzerland. The fines the EU is threatening far eclipse the value of the EU as a market. Second, if EU rules force Apple to cripple, compromise or otherwise dumb down their products, that makes them less competitive in the rest of the world. There is at this point almost no upside for Apple to release anything in the EU and plenty of downside, not to mention all the resources wasted "negotiating" with EU bureaucrats who are not acting in good faith and are making up the rules as the go and changing them retroactively.
So, what exactly is the downside for Apple to simply pull out of the EU until there is a more favorable business climate there? I can't see any upside to staying at this point.
I’ve read that the EU represents about 7% of Apple’s revenues. That’s almost $30 billion a year. I see no reason to walk away from that if you don’t have to.
Note that my suggestion to create a subsidiary is meant to create EU-specific (lobotomized) versions of apple products to meet the needs of Eurocrats.
The question is — can Apple make money selling lobotomized products? Since everyone else also has to sell lobotomized products in the EU, it’s possible that they can. But if it turns out they can’t, then sure — leave. But I think it makes sense to try first.
Companies that don’t try to do hard things end up like IBM — slowly leaving every market that seems too hard to fight for.
IBM has a PE under 20, meaning it’s more profitable per share than Apple
PS: the solution is simpel, and it will het the EU where it hits hard, just make a US Apple ID, all will work and all the revenue you spent will benefit the US government as taxes will land in the US . Look who is laughing now.
EU commission head is targeting Apple either because she has clandestinely sided with its competitors or as a means to milk American companies which are far ahead of European counterparts. EU is literally finding ways to squeeze money out of American tech giants. EU s policies are based on protectionism and jealousy towards Big American brands. This is awful and anyone with common sense can understand. Interoperability- nonsense. Next, make iMovie compatible with android. Why does not Microsoft make windows compatible with Mac? Why no android on iPhone. All nonsensical hogwash
The EU commission requires owners of market-dominating operating systems not to set their own browsers as the default, but to show users a selection of competing browsers during setup, from which they should choose one as the default.
The EU commission wants the owners of the market-dominating operating systems not to prevent app developers from advertising the sale of licenses in their own apps.
European iOS and iPadOS users shall become free to choose who they want to buy apps and content from. Apple shall not stay the monopoly reseller of apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU. The EU does not want Apple to be able to continue to prevent certain apps from being available on iOS and iPadOS. European Users of iOS and iPadOS shall become able to freely develop, distribute, install, sell and buy apps for iOS and iPadOS.
That is more freedom for European users, that is more freedom for developers all over the world who want to sell apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU, that is less freedom for Apple in the EU.
The EU commission demands that the owners of the market-dominating operating systems do not use the APIs of the operating systems exclusively for themselves, but that the owners of these operating systems allow all app developers to use the APIs of the operating systems so that there are more better applications that run on all operating systems.
The EU commission does not require Apple to develop apps for other operating systems.
First point: I don't think anyone has much of an issue with this. The EU does also require Apple to allow browsers to use their own engine.
Second: Not sure why the EU thinks this is important. Advertising licenses inside an app is not typical for any platform. Smartphone users also have access to all kinds of information outside of apps and the App Store on the same device...internet, social media, email, text messages, direct messages etc. Basically, you have to pretend that smartphone users aren't aware that they can get information about developers and their products/services anywhere other than inside apps or the App Store in order to think this is important.
Third: Apple monopolizes app distribution because iOS/iPadOS and iPhone/iPad hardware are their own IP. That formula has been around for decades and was never previously considered to be anti-competitive since there is a high degree of difficulty in achieving success with it commercially. Think of all the various video game consoles that have either flopped or been unable to maintain viability in the long run. Think of Microsoft's attempt at a smartphone. It's not a magic formula for market dominance. Apple does have limits for what it allows to be sold in the App Store but that is true of any store...digital or brick/mortar. For the most part though, it's really the app developers that choose whether or not to provide their apps on iOS. Example: Microsoft made a big stink about its game streaming app not being allowed on the App Store but they had never previously ported 1st party games to the App Store either. They preferred to limit their own gaming apps to Windows/Xbox.
Fourth: Requiring access to APIs across the board is kind of an odd stance since not every API can be linked to market competition. I can see how it makes sense for something like NFC/Wallet or the browser engine aspect, i.e., targeted situations. This seems like a big overreach on the part of the EU similar to the third point above.
PS: the solution is simpel, and it will het the EU where it hits hard, just make a US Apple ID, all will work and all the revenue you spent will benefit the US government as taxes will land in the US . Look who is laughing now.
That kind of thinking went out the window a very long time ago.
Back when books were mostly on paper I would buy plenty of English language content direct from Amazon US. Even with shipping it was cheaper than buying the same imported content locally.
As the business grew, it popped up on the EU radar and, poof, the loophole was gone. An EU directive placed obligatory, country-of-origin sales tax on all transactions via cards based in the EU.
Size matters, as Apple is learning, but it was good while it lasted. Apple should feel the same.
PS: the solution is simpel, and it will het the EU where it hits hard, just make a US Apple ID, all will work and all the revenue you spent will benefit the US government as taxes will land in the US . Look who is laughing now.
That kind of thinking went out the window a very long time ago.
Back when books were mostly on paper I would buy plenty of English language content direct from Amazon US. Even with shipping it was cheaper than buying the same imported content locally.
As the business grew, it popped up on the EU radar and, poof, the loophole was gone. An EU directive placed obligatory, country-of-origin sales tax on all transactions via cards based in the EU.
Size matters, as Apple is learning, but it was good while it lasted. Apple should feel the same.
You just need a US payment method, not hard to come by ;-) Is the only way you can pay for apps/services if you have a US Apple ID
"Specifically, we are concerned that the interoperability requirements of the DMA could force us to compromise the integrity of our products in ways that risk user privacy and data security," said Apple. "We are committed to collaborating with the European Commission in an attempt to find a solution that would enable us to deliver these features to our EU customers without compromising their safety."
And then this:
"From previous statements including ones to AppleInsider, it's known that Apple has been continually working with the EU on its responses to the DMA, so it's reasonable to assume that will continue.
Leads to the question: Why even bother putting the subject into the public domain if communication and clarification are ongoing?
Far better to say as little as possible until things are clarified. All it takes is clarification and all for a roll out that isn't even planned for this year!
Basically FUD on Apple's part and Vestager has a valid point in her response to a question that wouldn't have been asked if it weren't for Apple.
Basically FUD on the part of EU-loving commenters. Apple has a right to provide whatever capabilities it wants to in whatever country/region it wants to. You're buying a product with certain features. There's nothing that says Apple has to provide the EU with everything it has the capability of including. The EU can demand Apple provide everything but that's not the way companies work. This is a brand new Apple capability and Apple has the right to provide it when they feel it's ready, not when a corrupt EU demands it. At this point, I feel Apple is well within its rights to start charging for features in countries it wants to. As far as I'm concerned, Apple should start charging for macOS, iOS, tvOS, iPadOS along with every Apple app and feature it wants to. I'd like to see the EU try and force Apple to provide everything for free. It isn't going to happen.
No one is disputing Apple's right to bring or not bring certain features to the EU. That is up to them and is irrelevant here.
The point is 'making a meal out of something' and putting it down to the DMA even when Apple itself claims it's in contact with the EU on the subject and also claims not to know what is possible or not.
It's all completely unnecessary on Apple's part. Why not simply ask the EU and wait for a reply?
Maybe Apple feels a bit of obligation to both inform its EU customer base and to disclose to its investors information that might be material to its business.
Hardly. We are talking about features that in all probability were never mapped to see the light of day in the EU until next year. They won't even fully reach the US until next year.
It was completely unnecessary on Apple's part and if it were 'material to its business', much better to tread carefully and not speculate when they quite clearly haven't clarified with the relevant bodies what the requirements are.
Two thumbs up! All this is getting rather silly. The EU protagonist is shadow boxing with herself. Apple isn’t even engaged or present. If the EU wants to talk about this person to person I have no doubt that Apple will show up. Just remember that conversation is not one participant trying to shove their own ideas down the other one’s throat. That’s not how it works.
Comments
The EU wants smartphones to be like PCs where there is little differentiation between vendors and profit is mainly derived from directed advertising and sale of consumer data. As an American, I am perfectly content to let Europe live in that world but I definitely hope they don’t drag me into it.
Once they start badly affecting the economy and the lives of their members , the union will shatter.
All because of some greedy SOBs who want a free ride on the back of innovators.
I say let them fall behind and the remaining members will follow in the foot steps of Great Britain to save themselves.
It was completely unnecessary on Apple's part and if it were 'material to its business', much better to tread carefully and not speculate when they quite clearly haven't clarified with the relevant bodies what the requirements are.
She didn't say that. She said this:
"I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already."
Firstly, it's clearly a personal opinion, and secondly, at this point in time at least, it is not far off the mark with regards to Apple's 'competition' issues within the EU.
No. Apple is on that train. The DSA/DMA are competition focused and that is the base of what Vestager has spoken about.
Not that security is even relevant at this point, but there you go, Apple couldn't resist.
Let's wait and see what the EU actually says before jumping the gun. Isn't that a better option?
After all, if you are communicating with the relevant bodies, the least you can do is hear them out, right?
BTW, I'm not retired. LOL. Semi-retired maybe.
I concur.
Margrethe Vestager
“So Apple have said that they will not launch their new AI-enabled features in the IRS environment [the EU], and they say that they will not do that because of the obligations that they have in Europe. And the obligations that they have in Europe, it is to be open for competition, that is sort of the short version of the DMA. And I find that very interesting that they say we will now deploy AI where we’re not obliged to enable competition. I think that is the most sort of stunning, open declaration that they know 100% that this is another way of disabling competition, where they have a stronghold already.”
Source: www.youtube.com/live/GmQ5SsMFbsU?t=4592
Some background:
Margrethe Vestager is the “Executive Vice President of the European Commission for a Europe Fit for the Digital Age”. The European Commission (EC) is part of the executive of the European Union (EU). It operates as a cabinet government, with 27 members of the Commission (directorial system, informally known as "Commissioners") headed by a President. There is one member per member state, but members are bound by their oath of office to represent the general interest of the EU as a whole rather than their home state. The EU Commission does not do anything that has not been agreed with the national governments of the EU member states.
Some numbers:
US GDP: $28.781 trillion
EU GDP: $25.399 trillion
China GDP: $35.291 trillion
US population: 334,914,895
EU population: 448,387,872
China population: 1,409,670,000
My conclusion:
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
The EU commission requires owners of market-dominating operating systems not to set their own browsers as the default, but to show users a selection of competing browsers during setup, from which they should choose one as the default.
The EU commission wants the owners of the market-dominating operating systems not to prevent app developers from advertising the sale of licenses in their own apps.
European iOS and iPadOS users shall become free to choose who they want to buy apps and content from. Apple shall not stay the monopoly reseller of apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU. The EU does not want Apple to be able to continue to prevent certain apps from being available on iOS and iPadOS. European Users of iOS and iPadOS shall become able to freely develop, distribute, install, sell and buy apps for iOS and iPadOS.
That is more freedom for European users, that is more freedom for developers all over the world who want to sell apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU, that is less freedom for Apple in the EU.
The EU commission demands that the owners of the market-dominating operating systems do not use the APIs of the operating systems exclusively for themselves, but that the owners of these operating systems allow all app developers to use the APIs of the operating systems so that there are more better applications that run on all operating systems.
The EU commission does not require Apple to develop apps for other operating systems.
NVDA is 72.7
What do you make of that?
Second: Not sure why the EU thinks this is important. Advertising licenses inside an app is not typical for any platform. Smartphone users also have access to all kinds of information outside of apps and the App Store on the same device...internet, social media, email, text messages, direct messages etc. Basically, you have to pretend that smartphone users aren't aware that they can get information about developers and their products/services anywhere other than inside apps or the App Store in order to think this is important.
Third: Apple monopolizes app distribution because iOS/iPadOS and iPhone/iPad hardware are their own IP. That formula has been around for decades and was never previously considered to be anti-competitive since there is a high degree of difficulty in achieving success with it commercially. Think of all the various video game consoles that have either flopped or been unable to maintain viability in the long run. Think of Microsoft's attempt at a smartphone. It's not a magic formula for market dominance. Apple does have limits for what it allows to be sold in the App Store but that is true of any store...digital or brick/mortar. For the most part though, it's really the app developers that choose whether or not to provide their apps on iOS. Example: Microsoft made a big stink about its game streaming app not being allowed on the App Store but they had never previously ported 1st party games to the App Store either. They preferred to limit their own gaming apps to Windows/Xbox.
Fourth: Requiring access to APIs across the board is kind of an odd stance since not every API can be linked to market competition. I can see how it makes sense for something like NFC/Wallet or the browser engine aspect, i.e., targeted situations. This seems like a big overreach on the part of the EU similar to the third point above.
Back when books were mostly on paper I would buy plenty of English language content direct from Amazon US. Even with shipping it was cheaper than buying the same imported content locally.
As the business grew, it popped up on the EU radar and, poof, the loophole was gone. An EU directive placed obligatory, country-of-origin sales tax on all transactions via cards based in the EU.
Size matters, as Apple is learning, but it was good while it lasted. Apple should feel the same.