danvm

rotateleftbyte said:

coolfactor said:

They are a software company. Their name is not MicroHard.

Didn't they just can all (or most) of their MS branded hardware? Some of it wasn't that bad (now to wash my mouth out with soap)

Going into SOC development requires lots of $$$$ and a long time. Apple does that sort of long-term investment. It remains to be seen if MS can do the same. 

I see MS making long terms investments that could benefit Surface and Xbox consoles. But also, they have Azure, which is a large part of their business.  Using their own SoC could help to reduce the cost of the datacenters.

DAalseth said:

danvm said:

DAalseth said:

The smartest thing Apple did, and also the most criticized, has been to not use macOS on the iPad. It’s a different device, that needs a different environment and UI. Now I think it could do more, and slowly they are making padOS do more. But if they had just dropped macOS onto the iPad, like Microsoft has done with the Windows on the Surface, it would have languished and died. macOS would not fit on a tablet. The modifications you would need to make it work on a tablet environment would be so extensive that, you’d end up with padOS.

The fact that Apple had the guts to go all in and not try to shoehorn a desktop onto the iPad is to a great extent why it is doing so well.

Maybe Apple didn't shoehorn a desktop in iPadOS, and that's the reason we see the limitations, for example, in multitasking. .  

Not sure why multitasking comes up. I mean it does. Maybe you don’t have separate windows for everything, oh yeah, now you do, but it does. As far as the Surface being a “better device”, I’d let sales answer that one. Sure the surface has the full Win11 environment going for it, but the iPad outsells it handily.

Yes, I know iPad OS has multitasking, but Windows it's better.  

And I don't like to measure quality based in sales number.  For example, if that's the case, we could say that Dell, HP and Lenovo devices are better than Apple devices, Amazon Dot is better than the HomePod, Roku is better than Apple TV, Kia is better than Ferrari and McDonalds is better than the French Laundry restaurant.  IMO, iPad and Surface are excellent devices, with advantages and disadvantages.  Which one is better depends in your workflow and tasks.  

danox said:

danvm said:

DAalseth said:

The smartest thing Apple did, and also the most criticized, has been to not use macOS on the iPad. It’s a different device, that needs a different environment and UI. Now I think it could do more, and slowly they are making padOS do more. But if they had just dropped macOS onto the iPad, like Microsoft has done with the Windows on the Surface, it would have languished and died. macOS would not fit on a tablet. The modifications you would need to make it work on a tablet environment would be so extensive that, you’d end up with padOS.

The fact that Apple had the guts to go all in and not try to shoehorn a desktop onto the iPad is to a great extent why it is doing so well.

Maybe Apple didn't shoehorn a desktop in iPadOS, and that's the reason we see the limitations, for example, in multitasking.  There is where the Surface jumps ahead as a better device, since it has a full desktop OS.  If you ask me, there is no perfect device. Which one is better depends in what you are trying to do.  If you want a tablet, go with the iPad.  It's the best tablet in the market.  But if you want a device to run, for example, productivity apps, the Surface is a better device.  

Apple made the right choice with the iPad, no different than giving Flash the boot at the beginning of the iPhone, the surface is crippled by not being able to work on Arm SOC’s, the lack of portability when it comes to being able to work a full day unplugged from a wall like an apple laptop, or the iPad. Just can’t beat the existence of the iPad which has allowed a whole new suite of programs that weren’t possible before its existence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxlRp9NO0gI

I agree with you that Apple was right on rejecting Flash in the iPad.  You may not know, but there is a Surface Pro 9 with a Qualcomm SoC that runs for +10 hours in battery.  That's very similar to the iPad Pro 12.9.  Apple has the performance advantage with the M2.  Still, the Surface Pro 9 will have no issues with day-to-day tasks. 

Aside from these programs, new programs like Notability, Bluebeam Revue and on going programs like OmniOutliner. Also notice the programs from Microsoft and Adobe.

What is significant is some of the programs from new companies that have just come online in the last five years that are exceptional Morpholio Trace, Procreate, Noteability, and there are many others. What is interesting is that many of the programs work seamlessly from the iPhone to the iPad and to the Mac on the fly in a way that Microsoft is not even close to matching.

I agree with you regarding the excellent library of apps we have for the iPad and how they work between Mac and iPhone.  But I can also find an excellent group of applications for the Surface, and there are some features where the Surface is ahead of the iPad.  For example, better multitasking and better multi-monitor support.  You can even replace PC / Mac with the Surface Dock.  And while the iPad have the advantage in the touch UI apps, the Surface apps are better when used with keyboard + mouse.  Also, applications like MS Office, AutoCAD/Revit and Adobe CC are more capable in Windows than in iPad OS.  

At the end, both are excellent devices and advantages and disadvantages.  Which one is better depends in the user workflow and needs. 

DAalseth said:

The smartest thing Apple did, and also the most criticized, has been to not use macOS on the iPad. It’s a different device, that needs a different environment and UI. Now I think it could do more, and slowly they are making padOS do more. But if they had just dropped macOS onto the iPad, like Microsoft has done with the Windows on the Surface, it would have languished and died. macOS would not fit on a tablet. The modifications you would need to make it work on a tablet environment would be so extensive that, you’d end up with padOS.

The fact that Apple had the guts to go all in and not try to shoehorn a desktop onto the iPad is to a great extent why it is doing so well.

Maybe Apple didn't shoehorn a desktop in iPadOS, and that's the reason we see the limitations, for example, in multitasking.  There is where the Surface jumps ahead as a better device, since it has a full desktop OS.  If you ask me, there is no perfect device. Which one is better depends in what you are trying to do.  If you want a tablet, go with the iPad.  It's the best tablet in the market.  But if you want a device to run, for example, productivity apps, the Surface is a better device.  

thedba said:

What so many pundits fail to understand is that the iPad does not need to turn into a mini Mac in order for it to be useful to millions of customers. It’s the computing device that so many turn to on a daily basis for ordinary things like banking, getting recipes, how to videos and so many of the day to day mundane tasks that ordinary people do in their daily lives.

What MS did with the Surface version 2 (version 1 was that greater than $10000 table top), is slap Windows on it, ie. what it’s always done.

The “It’s a toy, I want to do real work” crowd is nothing more than a minority in an echo chamber. The iPad has achieved its stated objective, Steve’s original vision of, “computing for the rest of us”.

If an iPad is used for the task you mentioned, it's the best device on the market.  The problem is when you try to do more that that you start to see the limitations.  If you ask me, the iPad is a better tablet.  But the Surface is a better device when you work with keyboard / trackpad.