danvm

thedba said:

danvm said:

AppleExposed said:

StrangeDays said:

MplsP said:

Well, to be fair, several weeks ago, Apple put out an ad saying the iPad Pro should be your 'next computer,' so Microsoft's not the only one blurring the lines. In reality, the lines have been getting more and more blurred for the past several years. Maybe we should start calling them 'tabtops' or 'laplets?'

It’s never been in dispute that iPads and tablets are sub-categories of “computer”. They are computers. Of course they’re computers. That doesn’t mean they’re blurring the lines between what is a laptop and what is a tablet in the way this article discusses. 

Forgot to mention that.

The surface is confused. It doesn't know what it is and who wants it.

I don't think the Surface is confusing.  You use it as a PC / notebook with a keyboard w/ trackpad attached, and detach the keyboard and use it as a tablet.

What is confusing is Apple message.  They tell you that touchscreen notebooks have a bad ergonomic experience because the screen in vertical position  But at the same time they push the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, and you have to use it in the same way as a touchscreen notebook.  They should be more clear in what position they are with touchscreen devices.

The problem with the Surface as a tablet paradigm, is that as soon as MS decided to put desktop Windows on it, developers never bothered writing software with touch in mind. Most have taken the path of least resistance. Not to mention users whom the vast majority go with what they’re already familiar with. Keyboard and mouse.

The iPad on the other hand, was born as tablet and software written for it is touch first. Adding a keyboard or Pencil to an iPad is a bonus, not a must.

AppleExposed said:

StrangeDays said:

MplsP said:

Well, to be fair, several weeks ago, Apple put out an ad saying the iPad Pro should be your 'next computer,' so Microsoft's not the only one blurring the lines. In reality, the lines have been getting more and more blurred for the past several years. Maybe we should start calling them 'tabtops' or 'laplets?'

It’s never been in dispute that iPads and tablets are sub-categories of “computer”. They are computers. Of course they’re computers. That doesn’t mean they’re blurring the lines between what is a laptop and what is a tablet in the way this article discusses. 

Forgot to mention that.

The surface is confused. It doesn't know what it is and who wants it.

williamlondon said:

Yamcha67 said:

That sounds like an awful idea, the current MacBook keyboards aren't great and have their set of issues. Introducing glass keyboards doesn't seem like a solution to the problem at all, in fact, it may just make matters worse. Don't fix it if ain't broke, they should really stick to their old style keyboards, I'm not sure how they'll manage it thanks to that obsession with thinness but maybe it can be done. Microsoft has managed to create a superthin keyboard with great travel and tactile feedback on their Surface Pro Type Covers, I'm sure there's a way to achieve something similar on the Apple side.

It's funny that Microsoft is actually taking Apple's place in many respects. Just look at the current Surface sales, they've been incredible for Microsoft. Microsoft has already exceeded expectations and now they are predicting 20% growth on top of that. I think they're really doing well considering that Microsoft has gotten into the hardware business very late compared to Apple. I also feel they are innovating in many more areas and in many cases outshining even Apple's Macs. The keyboards, trackpads, design are all on point and even the software has reached a stage where it's a lot like Mac OS. 

I wish Apple would change direction. Some Mac users including myself have jumped ship, I sold my Mac for the simple reason that I just got sick and tired of paying for premiums and getting less, not only that I just feel like Microsoft now is providing a better experience for my use case. The keyboard issues, flex-gate, bent iPads, iPhone 6 performance throttling etc.. all tell us that the quality assurance has taken a dive and Apple doesn't seem to care. The recent flex-gate issue which is leading to display failure early thanks to a fragile cable is going to cost customers $600+ for repair because the cable isn't durable enough to last very long. The bent iPads will not be covered, but people are eligible for a refund within the normal period for any device. The issues with keyboards have been semi-resolved but I guess we'll have to see how the new keyboards work out. Initially, customers were forced to pay around $700 for out of warranty keyboard repairs until Apple provided free replacements later on. It's really not looking good for Apple. I'm not saying it's a failing company, it makes way too much money for these issues to make a dent in the near future but it does mean customers will suffer in the end.

We already have a resident MS shill, btw, unless that's you, DanVM?

No, I'm still have my sign-in name active...

macxpress said:

tht said:

In a lot of ways, perhaps Jobs vision or market segmentation for the iPad, a device that sits in between a smartphone and laptop, became more of a ball and chain than a computer for everyone. Hard to explain why they limited the functionality of iPads for so long, and still are going a snails pace.

They should have sprinted head long into having iPads do everything a computer do. instead of it being an iOS device for a 10” display, it should have been iPadOS, capable of doing everything a computer can do. Mind that I’m all in with using an iPad flat on a table like a piece paper. Hardware keyboard support is nice, but it shouldn’t be advertised with it.

So basically you want macOS on an iPad...that doesn't work and Apple has explained this many times. Seems like people just don't want to listen. Just look at the Surface Tablet. Yeah Microsoft is selling some and sales to go up sometimes, but as @Soli said, they don't have anywhere near the marketshare of iPad and that trend continues. So I think the market has decided what works best. 

kruegdude said:

danvm said:

cgWerks said:

They gotta get the stock price back up somehow. jk

chasm said:

Companies have noticed that Apple products generate more productivity, have less downtime, and employees enjoy using them more — a mere 30-plus year’s after we told them that is what would happen.

No doubt! In my experience, though, it's rather typical for corporate to run a couple decades behind the rest of the world.

I always remember when I used to do consulting and some small-to-medium business would want to implement something (say, Lotus Notes) because that's what big XYZ corp uses. And, I'd be thinking... you already have better stuff than that... and it works... and it doesn't take a huge team to manage, etc.

entropys said:

Growing android support is a worry. The cause no doubt a mix of price and Apple hating IT departments.

I'm sure some of the old-guard are exiting and the new ones probably aren't so stupidly close-minded towards Apple any longer. (And... I'm being kind there, in my experience.)

tbornot said:

Warren Buffett’s BNSF railroad just finished switching all their locomotive crews to iPads, and it worked!  

Now they're all set to haul that oil via rail, being successful in getting pipelines shutdown.  

StrangeDays said:

entropys said:

Growing android support is a worry. The cause no doubt a mix of price and Apple hating IT departments.

I think you have it backwards — IT department guys are largely Windows admin dudes who were always afraid of Apple products. They still hate Apple and wish to keep their heads in the sand, despite POSIX macOS being better than Windows and proven to have lower TCO (ironically published by IBM), and iOS proven to have a longer supported lifespan. 

It's probably a mix of both (fear and hatred), but I don't think they even typically know enough about it to be afraid. Bigoted would be a better term.

danvm said:
Maybe you should blame Apple and their lack of tools instead of blaming MS administrators of being "afraid" of Apple devices.  For years MS provide tools (Active Directory, System Center, Intune) to deploy and manage their devices, applications and services, compared to Apple weak management tools.  It took a small company, Jamf, to make what Apple never did, offer a reliable way to deploy and manage Apple devices.  Even MS had better tools to manage Apple devices than Apple itself.  And now Jamf and MS are working together to integrate their tools.  Plus the ecosystem MS have for the enterprise in miles ahead of Apple. I could think it's reasonable to understand why MS does better with business / enterprise administrators than Apple.
...
Regarding TCO, ironically IBM publish the results at a time the announce the agreement with Apple.  I don't think they are lying, but neither I think MS, Oracle or any other company when they claim have a lower TCO than competition.  All of them could be saying the truth considering business and enterprises have different needs.  macOS is not better than Windows or vice versa.  Both have their good and bad things.  But Windows integrate far better than Apple in their enterprise business / enterprise ecosystem.  Plus MS Office for Windows is much better than the macOS version, and that's one of the most popular application in business, where Apple only have iWorks.  The only thing Apple have is mobile, where they are very strong, and most of them are connected to MS services, tools and applications.  I don't think administrators hate Apple, as you said.  It just that MS did a better job than Apple in the business / enterprise market.  

A few valid points in here, but I think it goes too far overall.

Yes, Apple could have certainly done better... directly. But, as you noted, companies like Jamf have been around and others before them. It also depends on when we're talking about... 30 years ago? 25? 20? 10?

The biggest issue for us when I was in IT at a nearly Fortune 50 (around the time of the Xserve), is that aside from the main IT hating Macs, Apple had no service to come and swap out machines, servers, etc. like HP or Dell did. If we hadn't had an Apple Store just down the street, that might have been an issue. (I could literally throw an xServe or RAID unit on a cart and roll it down the sidewalk to the Apple Store.)

The hardware support issue you mention was critical too.  HP, Dell and IBM did an excellent job offering onsite support.

But, here's the thing. Big IT switched from Novell to Microsoft when Microsoft was clearly inferior, so it isn't like the decision making is based on what is superior. Studies were done by Gartner and others long ago when Macs had a huge advantage over PCs and Windows. I'd say the gap has narrowed a lot since then, so now is a worse time to consider switching.

I agree that Novell had many things over Windows, but I think that what made MS succeed was the applications (Active Directory w/ Group Policy, SQL Server, MS Mail Server/ Exchange Server, SNA Server, SMS Server, etc).  Novell had some similar tools, but the integration the integration MS offered between their tools and with their desktop client was an advantage.  And it's still an advantage today for many business and enterprises.

Regarding TCO studies, yes Gartner had Apple ahead, like IBM today.  But there is no way that a single study will cover the needs of every business / enterprise.  IMO, there are cases where Apple is the best option, while MS is better at others. 

Yes, apps everyone has standardized on like Office are an issue, but are they the best, or just what was standardized on? Why?

My point is that it is a bit of a chicken and egg issue here. Did Apple not have those tools because the enterprise went elsewhere, or did the enterprise go elsewhere because it couldn't have happened with Apple? I remember in one of my first jobs out of school, all the engineers laughing at the fact that I had a computer with a mouse and toy-GUI. Back in the days of early networking, the Apple networks I worked on were way, way ahead in about every way than the Microsoft based ones, or even the Novell ones besides the WAN where it was deemed Apple protocols were too 'noisy' (which might have been one short-lived actual good points).

IMO, Office is the standard because was / is the best suite.  WordPerfect was better than Word in many tasks.  Lotus / IBM 1-2-3 was better than Excel for years.  And Aldus / Adobe Persuasion was better than PowerPoint.  But Office was a better package / suite than those separate applications, and the integration between applications was a big advantage.  When WordPerfect / Novell and Lotus / IBM start to offer their Suites, MS Office was already ahead.  And I tried for years to use WordPerfect Office and Lotus SmartSuite, but always came back to MS Office.  As today, MS Office has no competition, in quality or market share, including from Apple. 

On Apple being behind in the enterprise, we can only speculate on why enterprises went elsewhere.  What it's clear is that MS made an ecosystem that no other company have, from desktop, to server to cloud.  IMO, that's what made them lead on that market. 

You forgot to mention the thriving Antivirus ecosystem with your revisionist rewriting of history.  Microsoft was, on a whole, the worst thing that could have happened to the computing profession, impeding open standards, suppressing innovation and providing open vectors for cyber attacks on any organization stupid enough to run their software. 

Microsoft was, on a whole, the worst thing that could have happened to the computing profession, impeding open standards, suppressing innovation and providing open vectors for cyber attacks on any organization stupid enough to run their software.

MS made a lot of stupid things in the past, like the list you mentioned.  But they did a lot of good things, including making desktop a popular device, accessible to millions of users.  They made MS Office so good, that still ahead of competition today.  Their business / enterprise ecosystem was and is what most companies worldwide depend on.  I'll agree that they are not perfect. but neither is Apple.  And we cannot denied that they have been a big influence, good and bad, in the computing landscape.