danvm

Microsoft has priced the Surface Studio 2 at a very high tier -- it starts at $3,500, with nothing underneath it in the Surface lineup apart from its three mobile products. That's $200 more than Apple's 27 inch iMac upgraded to a Core i7, 16GB of DDR4 RAM and 1TB of SDD storage at Apple's premium prices.

Apple is known -- and often reviled by PC fans -- for its premium pricing. Yet in this case, an iMac is not just cheaper when similarly configured, but offers a wide range of significantly lower priced options starting at $1,800 for the 5K iMac, or $1,100 for the smaller 4K model where Microsoft does not.

T

Microsoft has never sold so many Surface PCs in a year, and its sales haven't really grown since it launched the Surface idea, so it's not really clear what he's trying to say in calling Apple's vastly larger Mac business "mediocre at best." But the words he uses are that "Apple is in a position where it can let the Mac line go old and stale because Apple isn't a computer company anymore. It's now a company that sells the iPhone."

In reality, the fact is that Apple's Mac operations have generated $25.2 billion in revenues over the last four quarters. Microsoft's total Surface revenues over the same period were $4.7 billion. Of course, most of that was from sales of its hybrid tablets, more comparable to Apple's iPad business which itself generated another $19.5 billion.

macxpress said:

larrya said:

Should this really take 2 years??

You realize that most Apple products that are totally brand new take many years to design, engineer, and fine tune before its announcement? This isn't just slapping parts together like a DIY PC and call it good. Apple is not Dell, HP, etc. If all you want is a bunch of parts slapped together then by all means, go get that or create your own.

If you need a professional Mac in the meantime, the iMac Pro is actually a great Pro Mac to get. It will still have significant value, even next year should you want to sell it for a new Mac Pro.

I suppose you have no idea the engineering and design involve in HP workstations.  I suggest you check the HP Z8, which is miles ahead off what Apple offers today.  This model is capable of 3TB of RAM (yes, Terabytes), two CPU's with a max of 56 cores, a three NVidia Quadro P6000.  Do you really think that a device like this is a "bunch of parts slapped together"? 

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations-z8/index.html?jumpid=cp_r11260_us/en/psg/hp_desktop_workstations/z8-mdplink

In addition, these models have been updates in a frequent basis, so high end customers have the latest specs always.  There is no excuse for what Apple has done to the Mac Pro line.

GeorgeBMac said:

If its online it can be hacked & stolen -- and identity theft is a growth industry.

Why would I trust Microsoft with my ID?
Actually, that's one of the big reasons why I stick to Apple products -- security and privacy.  They're not invulnerable, but they're better than the rest.   Far better.

There is a large list of enterprises and business that trust MS authentication platform (Azure AD / AD) for their users and customers ID's.  And now they are moving to password less on their services and products, as a method to improve security. 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/cloud-platform/passwordless

Like you said, if it's online, it can be hacked and stolen.  But MS have been prove very solid from a security POV, specially with their cloud services.  I think that's the reason MC team with MS for this project.  

StrangeDays said:

Johan42 said:

Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.

You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 

One of my customers have some users with 9-year old Dell Optiplex.  Those PC's had zero issues after all of these years, and as today the run the latest version of Windows 10.  Different from your 2011 iMac, that latest macOS version you can run in it is Sierra.  Now most of my customers moved to Lenovo business PC's, some of them with 6-7 years with no issues.  Now they are planning to upgrade to SSD, since RAM and CPU is adequate for their tasks.  High quality PC's can work as long as Mac devices. 

jcs2305 said:

indiekiduk said:

That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...

You do realize they sell the MBP without the touchbar right? 

Yes, there are MBP 13" without touchbar, but the MBP 15" has no option without touchbar. 

SpamSandwich said:

Here’s the thing:

Price isn’t the point. The Surface is a pile of hot garbage compared to the generally lean and efficient iPad.

I don't think that the Surface is as bad as you said compared to an iPad.  I have a Surface Pro 4 that completely replaced my iPad, notebook and desktop (since I have the Surface Dock).  I wouldn't be able to do that with an iPad.  And during these years, I have seen how the iPad have been copying many elements I had many years ago in my SP4, like the Pen/Pencil, side-by-side apps in tablet mode, Windows Hello / FaceID and more recently the keyboard with trackpad.  

I think that the iPad is the best tablet in the market.  But the Surface does many things better than the iPad, specially when you add the keyboard / trackpad.  For example, if I work with a complex document or spreadsheet, the Surface is a better device.  Same as multitasking, where the iPad is very limited compared to Windows.  

I would agree that the iPad is very efficient in many tasks, but I can said the same of the Surface in many tasks too.  IMO, it all depends of what you need, the apps / applications and your workflow.  I consider both, the iPad and the Surface Pro, excellent devices.

freediverx said:

MaxLe0p0ld said:

I wonder, why they still not bundle TEAMS into the Package - and also in TEAMS the eMail Lookup remains a Challenge -
as long as an Address is not in Active Directory, the App will not find it - it will not check your own Contacts for matches, such a Bug for over a year now...

And why will TEAMS not update via AutoUpdate on the Mac?

Remember that the end user has never been Microsoft's customer. Their customer is the whoever makes corporate software purchase decisions in large companies. The fact that their products are full of annoying quirks and omissions just reflects the fact that they're not designed with your needs in mind.

MS recently announced that they have 47.5M MS 365 subscriptions for consumers. So it looks they have a lot of end users customers.  

lkrupp said:

caladanian said:

Strange. The size is not the problem. The price is.


Price might a problem for YOU but NOT for professionals looking for  that level of performance. It has been shown time and time again the Mac Pro is an excellent value at that level. What you want, of course, is some kind of cheap tower with a few slots you can play with. Those days a re long gone for Macs. 

The thing is that not all professionals need a workstation that starts a $6K without monitor, neither need a cheap tower as you said.  Just look at HP and Lenovo workstations.  They have workstations as small as the HP Z1 Mini / Lenovo ThinkStation Tiny starting at less than $1K, to the largest Z8, which can go to +$100K, and some midrange devices between those two.  Apple is trying to cover the professional needs with two devices, the iMac Pro and the MacPro.  IMO,  two devices it's too limited.  A midrange MacPro would be an excellent option for many professional.  

racerhomie3 said:

GeorgeBMac said:

StrangeDays said:

Johan42 said:

Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.

You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 

My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?

Same here buddy. My MacBook is from late 2008. It is 11 years old, running smoothly , and it does so looking 5 times better than your machine.

The difference is that the good looking machine is running an old OS X 10.11 while the ugly one is capable of running the latest version of Windows 10.  Following the original post about longest lifespan, the ugly one is ahead considering it's running a modern OS.  Still, both devices are to old for modern applications.  

Beats said:

baconstang said:

applesauce007 said:

I think Epic will eventually lose.  
They cannot call Apple a monopoly nor anti-competitive in this case.
All they can do is build a better or cheaper product to compete against Apple.  Good Luck with that.

Microsoft should be ashamed of itself for testifying against Apple in this case.

Microsoft ashamed?

You're talking about the people that delivered Vista having shame?

The company who makes knockoff everything Apple. 

I suppose Apple have knockoffs too, 

Surface Pro / iPad Pro
Tile / AirTag
Spotify / Apple Music
Netflix / Apple TV+
Sonos / HomePod
GamePass / Apple Arcade

Looks like nobody is perfect, including Apple.