danvm

sflocal said:

i crack up with people recommending Thinkpads.  Sure, they’re solid, but they’re like bricks.  No thank you.

This is the 5th MBx I’ve owned.  Still the best one I’ve owned yet.

chasm said:

bsimpsen said:

You've got your numbers all wrong.

I can't speak for Mike, but I think you've misinterpreted. FTA: "All data has been collected from assorted Apple Genius Bars in the U.S. that we have been working with for several years, as well as Apple-authorized third-party repair shops."

This means that the data we're seeing has been aggregated from only those repair shops and Genius Bars (a tiny subset of the total number of Genius Bars and AASPs). It's very much like where pollsters sample 1,000 or 10,000 people at random, and from that extrapolate conclusions that apply to everyone in the country -- statistics show that you don't need to ask everyone to get an accurate answer, just a representative sample. And that's exactly what Mike has done, he's gathered a representative sample.

Personally, I think the big takeaway from this (very valuable) research is to stop eating and drinking things over your 2016 and later MacBook Pro, or at the very least (as I do) use a keyboard cover for it. Crumbs have always been the bane of keyboard repairs, and it sounds like this latest keyboard design didn't really factor that in as much as perhaps they should have. I'm perfectly fine with the new keyboard style in terms of performance, but this data does tell me two things I couldn't previously say with certainty:

1. The new keyboard design seems less tolerant of contaminants.
2. While your odds of having a keyboard problem are still low (and even lower if you take the same precautions you should have always taken with scissor-based keyboard designs), they are in fact higher than they were with the previous design. Probably not an insurmountable problem, but a factor in buying decisions.

macxpress said:

larrya said:

Should this really take 2 years??

You realize that most Apple products that are totally brand new take many years to design, engineer, and fine tune before its announcement? This isn't just slapping parts together like a DIY PC and call it good. Apple is not Dell, HP, etc. If all you want is a bunch of parts slapped together then by all means, go get that or create your own.

If you need a professional Mac in the meantime, the iMac Pro is actually a great Pro Mac to get. It will still have significant value, even next year should you want to sell it for a new Mac Pro.

sflocal said:

danvm said:

sflocal said:

indiekiduk said:

That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...

Stop making stuff up.  I owned those MacBooks, and I love the keyboard of my late-2017 MBP.  Keyboards were fine in all of those, including the new ones.

I'm a developer, using the function keys often, and the Touch Bar does not get in the way.  

Jeez... some people just have a chip on their shoulder.

Maybe the keyboard is fine for you, but I haven't seen such a negative feedback from Macbooks / MacBook Pro's keyboards before.  I never heard people criticizing Apple trackpads, since they are excellent, but the experience with keyboards wasn't that positive.  I don't like the tactile feedback in my MBP 2017.  Like I posted before, IMO, Thinkpads are the best.  

People being vocal in tech forums do not represent the public as a whole.  If the keyboards were really as bad as tech-heads say they are, Apple would not be selling as many MacBooks (and MBP's)  as they are.  Obviously, a majority of people don't have a problem with them.  There is no such thing as a 100% satisfaction rate in any product, it's just that the Internet loves to make small issues seem bigger than they really are.

I have yet to meet anyone else in my very large circle of Macbook-owning friends complain about the keyboard.  Sure, that doesn't mean that everyone doesn't have a problem, but it also doesn't mean that everyone has a problem with it too.

For me, using the new keyboard tech took a day or two of getting used to it.  Now, it's a non-issue, not that it ever really was.

My original statement still stands.

There are people, like you and your friends, that may like the keyboard.  My point is why do I have to get used to something if it's that good.  I didn't get used to Apple trackpads or Thinkpad keyboards.  Both are excellent.  If you only work with recent Apple devices, you don't have any other product to compare, and you will get used to it faster.  I work with devices from many brands, and I see the difference when I type in a MBP and a Thinkpad. 

slurpy said:

danvm said:

slurpy said:

indiekiduk said:

That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...

95% of people in the real world have zero problems with the keyboard, touchbar, "dongle-hell", etc. It's a small, viciously vocal group on the internet that sets this narrative, backed by the anti-Apple cottage industry that makes a killing from anti-Apple articles, Youtube videos, etc. The new MBPs are fantastic, forward looking machines, easily the best I've ever owned. Keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I can now type FASTER, with less effort, and more quietly- I'd never go back. Also, this "dongle-hell" is a hyper-sensationalized, hilariously overblown narrative. Most people will at MOST need a $10 usb-C to usb-A adapter. Funny how I see tons and tons of the new MB/MBPs out in the wild, and literally zero "dongles. 

But either way, continue with the "new Apple hardware is a disaster" narrative. It's not like it's an original thought- it's lazy, and people like you have been claiming this for the past couple decades with every new Mac update. 

I don't understand the "getting used to".  Why do you need to get used to a good keyboard?  I didn't need to get used to Thinkpad keyboards or Apple trackpads.  They are good since the first day you work on them.  Maybe they aren't that good at all, and you just get used to it.

What an absolutely ridiculous, short-sighted mentality. So, nothing can ever change, because we should never have to adapt or adjust to anything? I guess Apple should have NEVER introduced a touchscreen keyboard on the iPhone (or a million other things) as that required adjustment, and are therefore "not good"?

I guess you missed the very next time of my post, where I claimed that I can now type FASTER on the new keyboard than I ever could on previous keyboards? That's the good kind of adjustment- short term pain (ie. getting used to it) for long term gain. I don't miss a single aspect of the older keyboards. The new ones are superior, even if slightly different.

There are people that like new keyboards, like you.  But I noticed that's not the case for most articles and comments I have read.  That's very different from the Apple trackpads, were most users had a great experience with previous and new versions. 

God help us if Apple ever adopted your "its good enough and works fine" mentality instead of constantly rethinking and questioning everything. SO many Apple products and features have been initially met with "WTF is this", to "this should be the new standard" and the entire industry eventually adopting the change.

I have not issue with companies making changes and improving their devices.  As an example, Apple did a great job changing the excellent trackpad in older MacBooks to the Force Touch.  People still love them.  The changes in the keyboard?  Not so much...