cgWerks

I'm waiting on the Mac mini 'Pro' news, as that is the most likely replacement machine for me (well, run along-side... I think I'll be running an Intel Mac for some time, as I'm kind of stuck there for compatibility with Windows apps and Mojave for some Mac apps).

I'm also really curious about the bigger iMac/iMac Pro, as I'd strongly consider that if it had video input (some rumors seem to show HDMI, and I can't think of another reason for it, if true). I'm OK with my current display, but more resolution/size would be nice. I just don't want it to be a single-use display, especially since my future likely includes a 2nd Mac and/or Windows box.

Vermelho said:

Although I understand that pro & max versions of M1 will maintain an edge over “vanilla” M2, if I were Mac marketing I would want to avoid the confusion and try to not introduce new M1 pro/max models AFTER the introduction of first M2.

Maybe a bit confusing to people who don't understand specs, but then, those people won't be looking at that much anyway. They'll just buy the latest of whatever machine they buy. So long as the non-Pro/Max/whatever systems are more limited in things like RAM or GPU cores, it won't matter. Those with higher needs will be forced to the Pro/Max/etc. systems, even if the performance of the next-gen gets close or exceeds the previous gen one some spec here or there.

tenthousandthings said:
I also think Apple is going to do something interesting with graphics in the desktop SoCs. 

I sure hope so! That is the weak-spot right not, especially given the pricing (maybe the desktops will be enough cheaper w/o the fancy screens?). If you buy a 32-core Max, you're not quite at the performance of a 3080 (mobile) on a brand new, fairly expensive machine (you'll be hoping lasts several years). That's just kinda sorta OK, and isn't what I'd been hoping for. Now, if the 2x Max or 4x Max scales well in performance, then they'll have something interesting... but will also probably be $$$. Would would be really nice, is to see the eGPU come back, even if only Apple Silicon. Then you could just plug in some extra GPU power.

commentzilla said:
Having a MacBook and a MacBook Air doesn't make sense anymore, since they are almost the exact size and weight. The difference is so small it's basically an illusion as this point. The curved shell of the Air is not very efficient for the components or the battery. The only important selling point of the Air is really its name.

Agreed. Just make a MacBook ultra-portable with as big of screen as possible and ditch the Air, maybe two sizes if they decide to make one really small model. That said, the form-factor itself was a huge selling point for some. My wife finally gave it up when going to the new MBP 14" Pro (which she loves), but she does complain it isn't nearly as nice in form-factor as the Air (and I'd agree). I don't think the slightly smaller M1 MBP is a great replacement either. They probably have to bring the MacBook back and re-think the design a bit.

lkrupp said:
If the leakers are correct and there will only be a high end iMac Pro I will have to start considering a Mini with an external monitor (hopefully an Apple brand one). Of course a Mini with an Apple branded monitor may be in the same price range as a rumored iMac Pro.

I just don't understand Apple's reluctance to just produce a nice but reasonably priced external display. I think a LOT of people would be really happy with a display like the 5k iMac had, and given all the missing computer guts, the price could be made reasonable as well (certainly under $1k). I hear a lot of Apple people complaining about the lack of one. Maybe that market isn't as big as I think?

AppleZulu said:

Remember just a couple of years ago there was much gnashing of teeth amidst demands here that Tim Cook resign because Apple had "abandoned" the Mac?

I'm glad to see how it worked out, but Apple *did* abandon many people through those years. They could have done a lot more to either give people hope back then and/or better support keeping existing machines updated with what was available to them. They did neither. They sadly lost a lot of people. Will they be back? The software is still kind of a mess. Hopefully they'll get around to that one of these days, too.

Tim prioritized keeping secrets and stringent resource allocation over the responsibility to the customer base. I think it could have been done better.

melgross said:
These are by no means cheap chips. As Anandtech just said about these new chips;”Apple invested in silicon.” Meaning that these are large, and expensive. There is no other way to do what these do on chip. ...

Yeah, maybe it is just a matter of expectations. I'm happy to see the performance and the future looks bright. But, the prices are also a bit of a shocker. I think we were lead to believe that Intel was limited on the 'low' end by heat/performance, and then too costly going into Xeons (leading to Mac Pro pricing). I had hoped we'd see the middle filled in a bit once Apple was free with their own architecture and control over it all.

Now, it looks like we're back to the same problem. The affordable machines don't have the performance for the prosumer or independent pro, and the higher-end machines cost even more than they used to. My current setup, a Mac mini i7 w/ eGPU might be a bit slower in terms of CPU power and uses more power, but something similar in Apple's new lineup is over $3500.

I'm hoping maybe a lot of that price is in the screen and unnecessary laptop 'stuff' and await the mini 'Pro', but I'm a bit worried it will be out of my price range for anything useable.

melgross said:
I’m pretty certain that Apple had what they thought were good reasons to take ports away and replace them with different ports. Not all of us may agree with them on that, but they didn’t do it willy nilly. They were likely doing what they had so successfully done in the past, many times, which was forcing a newer technology to replace an older one. This time it was too early. Maybe it will happen in a few more years.

I think maybe it was being a bit overzealous on that front, combined with an industrial design wish for the look of port-uniformity. The problem, as Marco Arment put it one day, is that when some large percentage of your users *need* a dongle to do what they need to do, it is a problem.

And, like I've said since this whole thing started, when I've got a bunch of USB-C devices I can just plug into a machine with a bunch of USB-C ports, I'll be happy with it. But, that day is still a long way off and may never come. The only people who really benefited (and that's questionable) are those who bring their laptop between two locations with 'docks'. (The problem being dock ports aren't oven equal to built in ones.)

I don't need an HDMI or SD card reader on my laptop (should I ever get one again), but a lot of Apple's laptop users use those ports all the time (ex. how many people have to plug into a projector at the office?). It is good to see them back, and having those ports doesn't hurt me at all (if I don't need them).

welshdog said:

netrox said:

I just know that if Steve Jobs was alive now, he would be appalled by the new laptops. He would never allow that to happen. He would definitely demand that only USB4 be used and nothing else to be more consistent with simplicity. 

One of the easiest things in the world is to put words in a dead guy's mouth.

I think Jobs was kind of a minimalist, but more a practical one than an ideological one. What Apple went through, and hopefully is recovering from, is the latter.

elijahg said:
I think Waveparticle was referring to the thickness of the 24" iMac not allowing deeper ports like HDMI/SD/Ethernet (which is in the power brick - not a great design IMO). SD could go on the side though which would be massively more sensible than on the back where you have to fumble around every time you want to transfer some photos.

Yeah, they've kind of created a very unnecessary situation for themselves. Agreed on the port in the power brick, though it kind of works out fairly well for Ethernet. It wouldn't be great for the other ports.

elijahg said:
You need 4 thunderbolt ports and can't daisychain anything? Wow you must be in a tiny minority of minorities. Happily though for a much bigger proportion of MBP users who don't need 4 TB ports and instead need to plug in their SD card and a HDMI display, Apple delivered. You've swapped places with the bigger proportion of users who needed to carry a dongle or two with them everywhere. So as you no doubt told those who lamented the removal of SD and HDMI, you'll have to put up with it as you're the one with a minority use case - not them.

Yeah, isn't the whole point of the dongle/dock crowd that carrying such things isn't a big deal? Just pack a dock in your backpack, and you only need 1 port.

The only flaw is not having a USB-A, as that would often be useful for a true mobile user. Fortunately, the dongles for those are pretty small and generally work well. (Unlike HDMI, Ethernet, etc.)

crowley said:
Confirmed, the charge block has a USB-C port on it. So the cable is MagSafe on one end and USB-C on the other. And they're also selling the cable separately.  That's a nice move Apple.

Oh, nice! So it comes apart, which makes it easier to store/pack (as well as more versatile).

Eric_WVGG said:
Absolutely zero chance of a Mac Pro this year. They couldn't even squeeze in the (far-more-important) iMac!

Agreed. I think we're talking maybe early next year for new mini / iMac, and then WWDC at the very earliest for new Mac Pro (probably shipping later in the year).

GeorgeBMac said:
True, and that's why I've (also) been saying that Apple needs to work with Microsoft to get Windows back into Bootcamp on their newer devices.   And, it's not just for the high end engineering apps but also for the custom stuff used by schools and businesses that were developed for and are only supported as Windows based software.

But, it sounds like some of the virtual platforms may fill that hole.

Hmm, I never thought about an ARM-based Bootcamp if Windows succeeds on that front. Interesting though. I just kind of assumed it was all about VM software now.

GeorgeBMac said:
IBM & Motorola were hardly "small companies".  But they were up against the HP/Intel/Microsoft cartel -- not to mention a media that was enamored by those new guys and hammered anything the old school attempted.

Oh, no, I meant Apple was a relatively small player at that point (by comparison). They were just trying to leverage those players (who also had something to gain) in an attempt to better compete against Wintel. It's a night and day difference now (which is why I responded to that post).

It will be interesting to see the role the media plays this time around. Apple (the company) is a media-darling this time around, yet still fairly biased against Macs when talking about anything business or IT.

dewme said:

I’m very impressed with these new MacBooks. I think they represent a good compromise between bleeding edge technology (M1 Pro/Max, TB4, gobs of unified memory, mini LED backlighting) and pragmatic concerns (HDMI, 3.5 mm audio, excess ports, MagSafe). 

Unlike some Apple products that require users to trust that Apple made the right choice to move their customers to new ground, these new MacBooks aren’t asking us to take a leap of faith, or a leap of faith coupled with a box of dongles. Yeah, no USB-A ports, but those left the building a couple of years ago anyway. 

My only ask at this point is that Apple find a way to get all of this M1 Pro/Max and bountiful bevy of port goodness stuffed into a Mac mini case. 

Exactly! I'm actually just a tinge torn, as this is FINALLY the laptop I've always wanted from Apple, after I've turned back to the desktop route. But, I need to have patience, as it would seem pretty certain we'll be able to pick up one of these with these same chips relatively soon.

I just really hope they've been listening on the mini as well, such that if they do shrink it even more, that they don't go too far. And/or that they've heard the cries for a more mid-level prosumer box, and we'll be able to get these chips (M1 Max, 64GB RAM, 32 GPU cores) in a case that has ports and can keep its cool.