muthuk_vanalingam

gatorguy said:

Beats said:

IreneW said:

Beats said:

Android Auto and WearOS? What’s 15% of zero?

I can understand your sentiment on WearOS, but Android Auto actually works very well (and is supported by all major players as far as I have seen).

Supported. How many are used

How many iPhone owners use CarPlay? My guess is as many use Android Auto. You have any stats that indicate otherwise?

The last I could find is from four years ago and there was actually a higher percentage of Android users interested in Android Auto, and a much higher number of them considered it a "must-have", than there were iOS owners interested in CarPlay. Do you have something more recent to offer? Everything I find is relatively old.

The problem with the likes of @Beats is - their narrow circle of life starts and ends with Apple and nothing else. They do not explore the outside world, which is fine. But then, they should not comment of topics that they have no clue in. But they still come out and chime in with silly ignorant posts, day in day out.

omasou said:

One can only hope that this will put an end to the "a Windows machine cost less" FUD. Those specs should raise the base computer price?

Come on, did you even read the article? It is clearly mentioned - "Microsoft's requirement of TPM 2.0 and other requirements will limit processors to ones delivered in approximately the last six years.". We are talking about specs that belong to 6 year old computers here. How and why would that increase cost, that too to Apple levels?

AppleZulu said:

muthuk_vanalingam said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

mvmaastricht said:

mfryd said:

Apple already has an OS that solves these features and runs on the new iPad Pro - it's called Big Sur.   Big Sur already runs on the M1 processors, and supports multiple monitors, multitasking, and even runs iPad and iPhone apps.

It's policy that prevents OSX from running on the new iPad Pro.  Apple wants to keep the iPad locked down and secure.  

That might be true, but on the other hand: if Apple would make the iPad Pro instantly dual boot, like starting (or opting to start) macOS the moment you connect an external monitor or a mouse, it’d be instantly THE most popular tablet/laptop outselling anything from any brand or vendor. 

Because then you’d buy two computers in one. 

Also ‘normal’ people would become interested in the iPad Pro, because it’d be reasonably priced instantly!

For the real pros Apple will still keep on selling MacBook Pros and Mac Pros….

I think you meant to post this on a Windows forum somewhere. 

No, he's just not an apologist for Apple.   He's fan.   A real one who understands Apple can do better.

Steve understood that Apple didn't always do the right thing and could always do better -- and worked really hard to do just that.

Fan Boys on the other hand have a religious belief that whatever Apple does or doesn't do is perfect.

Yawn. 

Fan Boys hate reality.  It upsets their delusional little universe.

Sorry, Sparky, but reality does not support your ongoing fantasy.

Apple's Greg "Joz" Joswiak, Marketing Director, April 22, 2021, in The Independent:

“There’s two conflicting stories people like to tell about the iPad and Mac,” says Joz, as he starts on a clarification that will lead him at one point to apologise for his passion. “On the one hand, people say that they are in conflict with each other. That somebody has to decide whether they want a Mac, or they want an iPad.

“Or people say that we’re merging them into one: that there’s really this grand conspiracy we have, to eliminate the two categories and make them one.

“And the reality is neither is true. We’re quite proud of the fact that we work really, really hard to create the best products in their respective category.”

(Joz, however, is reluctant to name the category he’s talking about: he jokes that he “can’t even stand using” the word, because the “iPad is better than tablets”. “I hate to diminish it by calling it the category name,” he says.)

“Customers agree with us, right?” he says. “We have the highest customer satisfaction, again for each of those products in their category.

“And they’re voting with their pocketbook, right? Both these categories have grown, but iPad and Mac have greatly outgrown their category. And so that’s what our strategy is: create the best product of both.”

You can keep repeating yourself, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... and ignore citations of Apple's very consistent statements that they are not going to do the thing you want them to do, but you are not representing reality. You are welcome to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

The truth is:   Apple does not have the best product in its category - they have, perhaps, the worst.

That is:  By adding a keyboard and mouse to the iPad without commensurate upgrades to its OS, Apple created the worst in its category (2 in 1's) rather than the best.

I have confidence though that the iPad team will get off of their duff and fix this error.  They've been plugging away at it slowly and surely but they still have a long way to go.

I take it you have little or no confidence in Apple?   You think they have stagnated?  I disagree.  They will, at some point, fix this problem.   It's very un-Apple like to put out crappy products.

As I said before, this illustrates what is needed.  An intolerance of mediocrity:

You are just repeating your opinions again, which isn’t surprising. You don’t have to like the iPad, but as mentioned in the Apple exec’s quote I posted (and you ignored) above, there are a lot of people who don’t agree with you, and they’re voting with their wallets. They’re buying iPads and reflecting extremely high customer satisfaction with their purchases, not lamenting that they didn’t get an Apple copy of the much lower selling MS Surface. 

Those are the facts, not my opinions. MacBooks and iPads sell very, very well, and their owners reflect high customer satisfaction with their devices. Apple leadership states unequivocally they aren’t going to do what you want them to do. It’s not their vision for the company. Those are the facts. 

Also, as noted when you posted it before, your video clip promotes the opposite of what you’re repeating ad nauseum. The Jobs character rails against producing “me too” products and fires an engineer for failing to see Apple’s vision. In that scenario, you’re hilariously represented by the engineer who gets fired. 

P.S. This may be helpful for you to know. You wrote this above: "I take it you have little or no confidence in Apple?   You think they have stagnated? I disagree." This is a textbook "Straw Man" argument. You set up and attribute to me an argument that I didn't make, and then triumphantly knock it down. I offer to you this example because you earlier claimed I was knocking down lots of straw men, but then declined an invitation to elaborate on that to show just where it was occurring. I thought this might be helpful to you, if, perhaps, you weren't actually clear on that term, "straw man argument." There is a term in psychology called "projection" that you might also look up.

To add on to my previous post about iPad Pros being a small portion of iPad sales, I just now read an article in GSMArena (https://www.gsmarena.com/counterpoint_ipad_market_share_continues_to_grow_in_q1_2021_across_all_models-news-49610.php), confirming the same. iPad Pros make up just 18% of total iPad sales with entry level iPad making up 56%, iPad Air making up 19% and the rest 7% for mini. So your claim that people are voting with their wallets does not seem to be accurate for iPad Pros.

Except I didn’t specify only iPad Pro. You did. Besides, as the most expensive model, it would be surprising if it outsold the less expensive versions. People are buying iPads of all kinds in large numbers and reporting high customer satisfaction. 

Few points:
1. This article is about iPad Pro (particularly the M1 variant launched recently)
2. The people who agree with the premise of the article (that iPad OS 15 is nowhere near the hardware capabilities of the M1 iPad Pro) are absolutely spot on with the assessment. Your counter to that is - Look at the sales numbers. My counter to your argument is - Sales numbers are not that great either for the iPad Pros, because people are voting with their wallets to buy the lower priced iPads (Air and entry level) or delaying their purchases because the value proposition is just not there with the iPad Pros.
3. You mentioned "it would be surprising if it outsold the less expensive versions" - Partially agree. But I disagree partially as well. Look at iPhone sales. The cheapest iPhone SE is NOT the best seller in the lineup. The higher priced, recently launched iPhones make up at least 60% of the iPhone sales in recent years. It used to be as high as 80%-85% few years ago. And the iPhones are in similar price range like the iPads (Entry level, Air, Pros), so the comparison is reasonable. Partially agree with you here because entry level iPad is bought by many Android phone users as well, so it is understandable iPad sales mix would never be exactly similar to iPhone sales mix. Many of the Apple ecosystem users don't see value in iPad Pros so they are holding onto their older devices longer. Apple can definitely do a lot more in iPad OS to push the sales of iPad Pros.

It is strange to see that people like you are not only happy but also strongly pushing for "status quo" to be maintained when it comes to iPad OS for iPad Pros when Apple's usual approach is not to maintain status quo.

Edit: One more point - The criticism of iOS/iPad OS being nowhere near the hardware capabilities is valid for two previous generation iPad Pros (powered by A12Z and A12X) as well. It is 3rd year running where Apple has not done enough to address the shortcomings of the OS of iPad Pros, which is why the criticism becomes much stronger as time moves on AND hardware keeps moving forward as well, with software (iPad OS) at near standstill.

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

mvmaastricht said:

mfryd said:

Apple already has an OS that solves these features and runs on the new iPad Pro - it's called Big Sur.   Big Sur already runs on the M1 processors, and supports multiple monitors, multitasking, and even runs iPad and iPhone apps.

It's policy that prevents OSX from running on the new iPad Pro.  Apple wants to keep the iPad locked down and secure.  

That might be true, but on the other hand: if Apple would make the iPad Pro instantly dual boot, like starting (or opting to start) macOS the moment you connect an external monitor or a mouse, it’d be instantly THE most popular tablet/laptop outselling anything from any brand or vendor. 

Because then you’d buy two computers in one. 

Also ‘normal’ people would become interested in the iPad Pro, because it’d be reasonably priced instantly!

For the real pros Apple will still keep on selling MacBook Pros and Mac Pros….

I think you meant to post this on a Windows forum somewhere. 

No, he's just not an apologist for Apple.   He's fan.   A real one who understands Apple can do better.

Steve understood that Apple didn't always do the right thing and could always do better -- and worked really hard to do just that.

Fan Boys on the other hand have a religious belief that whatever Apple does or doesn't do is perfect.

Yawn. 

Fan Boys hate reality.  It upsets their delusional little universe.

Sorry, Sparky, but reality does not support your ongoing fantasy.

Apple's Greg "Joz" Joswiak, Marketing Director, April 22, 2021, in The Independent:

“There’s two conflicting stories people like to tell about the iPad and Mac,” says Joz, as he starts on a clarification that will lead him at one point to apologise for his passion. “On the one hand, people say that they are in conflict with each other. That somebody has to decide whether they want a Mac, or they want an iPad.

“Or people say that we’re merging them into one: that there’s really this grand conspiracy we have, to eliminate the two categories and make them one.

“And the reality is neither is true. We’re quite proud of the fact that we work really, really hard to create the best products in their respective category.”

(Joz, however, is reluctant to name the category he’s talking about: he jokes that he “can’t even stand using” the word, because the “iPad is better than tablets”. “I hate to diminish it by calling it the category name,” he says.)

“Customers agree with us, right?” he says. “We have the highest customer satisfaction, again for each of those products in their category.

“And they’re voting with their pocketbook, right? Both these categories have grown, but iPad and Mac have greatly outgrown their category. And so that’s what our strategy is: create the best product of both.”

You can keep repeating yourself, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... and ignore citations of Apple's very consistent statements that they are not going to do the thing you want them to do, but you are not representing reality. You are welcome to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

The truth is:   Apple does not have the best product in its category - they have, perhaps, the worst.

That is:  By adding a keyboard and mouse to the iPad without commensurate upgrades to its OS, Apple created the worst in its category (2 in 1's) rather than the best.

I have confidence though that the iPad team will get off of their duff and fix this error.  They've been plugging away at it slowly and surely but they still have a long way to go.

I take it you have little or no confidence in Apple?   You think they have stagnated?  I disagree.  They will, at some point, fix this problem.   It's very un-Apple like to put out crappy products.

As I said before, this illustrates what is needed.  An intolerance of mediocrity:

You are just repeating your opinions again, which isn’t surprising. You don’t have to like the iPad, but as mentioned in the Apple exec’s quote I posted (and you ignored) above, there are a lot of people who don’t agree with you, and they’re voting with their wallets. They’re buying iPads and reflecting extremely high customer satisfaction with their purchases, not lamenting that they didn’t get an Apple copy of the much lower selling MS Surface. 

Those are the facts, not my opinions. MacBooks and iPads sell very, very well, and their owners reflect high customer satisfaction with their devices. Apple leadership states unequivocally they aren’t going to do what you want them to do. It’s not their vision for the company. Those are the facts. 

Also, as noted when you posted it before, your video clip promotes the opposite of what you’re repeating ad nauseum. The Jobs character rails against producing “me too” products and fires an engineer for failing to see Apple’s vision. In that scenario, you’re hilariously represented by the engineer who gets fired. 

P.S. This may be helpful for you to know. You wrote this above: "I take it you have little or no confidence in Apple?   You think they have stagnated? I disagree." This is a textbook "Straw Man" argument. You set up and attribute to me an argument that I didn't make, and then triumphantly knock it down. I offer to you this example because you earlier claimed I was knocking down lots of straw men, but then declined an invitation to elaborate on that to show just where it was occurring. I thought this might be helpful to you, if, perhaps, you weren't actually clear on that term, "straw man argument." There is a term in psychology called "projection" that you might also look up.

To add on to my previous post about iPad Pros being a small portion of iPad sales, I just now read an article in GSMArena (https://www.gsmarena.com/counterpoint_ipad_market_share_continues_to_grow_in_q1_2021_across_all_models-news-49610.php), confirming the same. iPad Pros make up just 18% of total iPad sales with entry level iPad making up 56%, iPad Air making up 19% and the rest 7% for mini. So your claim that people are voting with their wallets does not seem to be accurate for iPad Pros.

GeorgeBMac said:

muthuk_vanalingam said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleZulu said:

mvmaastricht said:

mfryd said:

Apple already has an OS that solves these features and runs on the new iPad Pro - it's called Big Sur.   Big Sur already runs on the M1 processors, and supports multiple monitors, multitasking, and even runs iPad and iPhone apps.

It's policy that prevents OSX from running on the new iPad Pro.  Apple wants to keep the iPad locked down and secure.  

That might be true, but on the other hand: if Apple would make the iPad Pro instantly dual boot, like starting (or opting to start) macOS the moment you connect an external monitor or a mouse, it’d be instantly THE most popular tablet/laptop outselling anything from any brand or vendor. 

Because then you’d buy two computers in one. 

Also ‘normal’ people would become interested in the iPad Pro, because it’d be reasonably priced instantly!

For the real pros Apple will still keep on selling MacBook Pros and Mac Pros….

I think you meant to post this on a Windows forum somewhere. 

No, he's just not an apologist for Apple.   He's fan.   A real one who understands Apple can do better.

Steve understood that Apple didn't always do the right thing and could always do better -- and worked really hard to do just that.

Fan Boys on the other hand have a religious belief that whatever Apple does or doesn't do is perfect.

Yawn. 

Fan Boys hate reality.  It upsets their delusional little universe.

Sorry, Sparky, but reality does not support your ongoing fantasy.

Apple's Greg "Joz" Joswiak, Marketing Director, April 22, 2021, in The Independent:

“There’s two conflicting stories people like to tell about the iPad and Mac,” says Joz, as he starts on a clarification that will lead him at one point to apologise for his passion. “On the one hand, people say that they are in conflict with each other. That somebody has to decide whether they want a Mac, or they want an iPad.

“Or people say that we’re merging them into one: that there’s really this grand conspiracy we have, to eliminate the two categories and make them one.

“And the reality is neither is true. We’re quite proud of the fact that we work really, really hard to create the best products in their respective category.”

(Joz, however, is reluctant to name the category he’s talking about: he jokes that he “can’t even stand using” the word, because the “iPad is better than tablets”. “I hate to diminish it by calling it the category name,” he says.)

“Customers agree with us, right?” he says. “We have the highest customer satisfaction, again for each of those products in their category.

“And they’re voting with their pocketbook, right? Both these categories have grown, but iPad and Mac have greatly outgrown their category. And so that’s what our strategy is: create the best product of both.”

You can keep repeating yourself, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... and ignore citations of Apple's very consistent statements that they are not going to do the thing you want them to do, but you are not representing reality. You are welcome to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

The truth is:   Apple does not have the best product in its category - they have, perhaps, the worst.

That is:  By adding a keyboard and mouse to the iPad without commensurate upgrades to its OS, Apple created the worst in its category (2 in 1's) rather than the best.

I have confidence though that the iPad team will get off of their duff and fix this error.  They've been plugging away at it slowly and surely but they still have a long way to go.

I take it you have little or no confidence in Apple?   You think they have stagnated?  I disagree.  They will, at some point, fix this problem.   It's very un-Apple like to put out crappy products.

As I said before, this illustrates what is needed.  An intolerance of mediocrity:

You are just repeating your opinions again, which isn’t surprising. You don’t have to like the iPad, but as mentioned in the Apple exec’s quote I posted (and you ignored) above, there are a lot of people who don’t agree with you, and they’re voting with their wallets. They’re buying iPads and reflecting extremely high customer satisfaction with their purchases, not lamenting that they didn’t get an Apple copy of the much lower selling MS Surface. 

Those are the facts, not my opinions. MacBooks and iPads sell very, very well, and their owners reflect high customer satisfaction with their devices. Apple leadership states unequivocally they aren’t going to do what you want them to do. It’s not their vision for the company. Those are the facts. 

Also, as noted when you posted it before, your video clip promotes the opposite of what you’re repeating ad nauseum. The Jobs character rails against producing “me too” products and fires an engineer for failing to see Apple’s vision. In that scenario, you’re hilariously represented by the engineer who gets fired. 

P.S. This may be helpful for you to know. You wrote this above: "I take it you have little or no confidence in Apple?   You think they have stagnated? I disagree." This is a textbook "Straw Man" argument. You set up and attribute to me an argument that I didn't make, and then triumphantly knock it down. I offer to you this example because you earlier claimed I was knocking down lots of straw men, but then declined an invitation to elaborate on that to show just where it was occurring. I thought this might be helpful to you, if, perhaps, you weren't actually clear on that term, "straw man argument." There is a term in psychology called "projection" that you might also look up.

I think you are mixing up "Entry level iPads" with iPad Pros, when it comes to people voting with wallets. My understanding is that the entry-level iPads sales are much higher percentage of the overall iPad sales and iPad pros are a very small part of this. I am making this point based on ASP of iPads (guestimates again because Apple doesn't reveal this information) posted by someone in this forum in the past. I don't have the exact data points, so you can call it as speculation on my part. But do you have any links which has the data related to iPad Pro sales in the last few years, compared to the Entry-level and iPad Air models? Or even a link with details of ASP of iPads will do (higher the ASP, higher the share of iPad Pros, lower the ASP, lower the share of iPad Pros).

And I agree with you that we are debating "opinions", not hard facts.

That's true.

But the principle applies even there on the Education focused, entry level iPads.

I went to my Apple Store and bought one for my grandson along with its 3rd party keyboard they were selling with it thinking he could use it for school work.   But, since it's the same OS that has not been sufficiently upgraded for that type of work it was a very shitty experience.   It's alright in an emergency, but not pleasant to work on.  In the end I bought him a MacBook Air and the combination of the two was an expensive, but good solution.

But, had Apple done a better job developing its OS for keyboard and mouse the iPad would have worked well as a very portable 2 in 1.

But, as for opinion vs hard fact:  It's been pretty well accepted throughout the industry that iPadOS is not up to laptop quality work -- despite the fact Apple is selling keyboards and trackpads for it.  That isn't opinion.  It's pretty well determined.   Only the most vehement fan boys dispute that -- and even then they tend to make excuses for it.

Entry level iPads - Not sure if the hardware (A12, measly 3 GB RAM) is adequate for running MacOS. It will take few years to reach there eventually. But I agree with you that Apple should have developed iPad OS as much more capable since the current version of the iPad OS is not stretching the capabilities of even the entry level iPads.