StayPuftZombie

This article is so on the money. The Bloomberg piece is pure clickbait.

Mike Wuerthele said:

entropys said:

It does not matter how expensive macs were in the past. Heck I paid over USD$4000 for a PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” back in the day.  
What matters today is the price of a Mac compared with comparable windows machines.

Not hardly, as Macs have also nearly always been more expensive than a comparable Windows machine. The argument that we've been assaulted with, with a new battery after the Mac mini rollout, is that Tim Cook has unnecessarily jacked up prices, and only he has ever had the gall to price machines so high.

That is false, at its face.

Not true. 

Mac Pro from 2006-2010 was VERY price competitive. Hmm, I wonder what changed after that. I guess that's when Apple started building its 'deep pipeline'.

But then again that doesn't fit with the article's narrative here, so I'll assume this post will be deleted much like my earlier, "all apologies" comment/post.

This is really tough.  The entire article turns on the word "modular" and what does it mean.  External "modules" or are PCI cards also modules?

AppleInsider's guess is as good as anyone's.  While I hope you are wrong, generally my best way of predicting what Apple will do is, think, what would really really disappoint me, and that will be pretty darn close.

Lack of storage expansion is inaccessible. 

Where I take some issue is with the fuzzy word "pro".  Apple it's self mentioned that pro's encompass a very wide number of user types.  This article basically seems to focus on pro's as pixar like creative professionals.

A broader umbrella for pro includes many other types. Power users. Enthusiasts. Pro's from very different industries like scientific research that requires MASSIVE upgrading, including video cards, storage, ram, for computation.  

In essence, the article suggests that the new Mac Pro will in essence be a repeat of the failed trashcan, but with a faster thunderbolt 3 port this time, which is still pathetically slow compared to PCI.  Certainly possible.  But it's fundamentally why I think this article will prove false in the end. And if not, it's time to sell the stock, because they'll just keep re-making cubes.

But Apple has already lost a lot of pros (in the broader sense of the word). If it doesn't deliver here, it will lose near the last of those old loyal users.  Apple can do just fine without them on iPhones alone.  But some day, it may need their enthusiasm, and they wont be there.  They will be on windows/linux and some on hackintosh for a while longer.

And to the article's point, it's not like the Cheese Grater's adoration isn't know. So ignoring it at this point is basically an invitation to leave.  Sadly, it's very possible.

macplusplus said:

tylersdad said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

tylersdad said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

d3bug said:

I'm sorry Mr Gallagher and Mr. Wuerthele, but you cannot redefine what "Pro" means just for Apple. Everyone abides by the same definition of "Pro" or nobody does. I'm afraid you are guilty of a classic hypocrisy move... one definition for me, and one for thee. When the components you might wish to upgrade (RAM, HDD, CPU, GPU) are soldered to the board, I'm afraid you cannot claim that system to be professional in any way... You might get away with "Prosumer", but not "Professional".

Okay, I'll bite. What's Apple's definition of "Pro" then? Show me where they codified it? Apple uses "Pro" as nothing more than a marketing term, and never has applied a classification to what makes one product pro and one not.

Upgrading components is in utterly no way the definition of "Pro." That may be YOUR definition, but it means you're calling Disney, Pixar, NASA, IBM, and most of the rest of the market not pro because they don't crack the cases open -- and never have, even when the door folded down. You really don't have any room to call somebody else a hypocrite in this matter.

It's not just about not being able to upgrade. Components fail. Apple hardware is no less susceptible to this than other hardware. If you can't upgrade the SDD, then you certainly can't repair it. Which begs the question: What happens when parts fail? Do these devices need to be sent back to Apple or taken to an Apple authorized repair facility?

I don’t think I understand the question fully. If they fail, then yes. That also has no bearing on “pro” though.

My comment had less to do with the Pro vs. Not-Pro debate. I honestly have no opinion there, since each person's definition of "Pro" is bound to vary considerably. 

I'm more or less just thinking about how these companies would possibly use a device like this without repairability (if that's even a word) .If you have a farm of these, some component is bound to fail. It's just the reality of electronics--no matter the quality of the components that make up the electronics. The companies you mentioned never crack them open at all? Not even to make repairs? I've built out data centers. Stuff breaks. And rather than be down a server, I can just pop in new components and have my downed server back up and running in a few hours. We keep spares of certain types of hardware--RAM, hard drives, CPUs. It's not an option with a device like this. You just have to wait for it to get repaired, do without, or keep spare computers around. 

If you have built server farms and have repair experience, then you are able to upgrade also the new Mac Mini’s SSD. It is your job to figure out how. You cannot expect the same from all Apple customers. Apple doesn’t build computers for you and the ones like you, it build computers for general public. On the other hand, we are no more in the “plug and pray” era, those tightly integrated devices cannot be repaired using a   mere how-to sheet, this is a matter of a very valuable expertise, training, talent and refined personal taste. You cannot expect that from people who get OCD when they face a new version of a stupid keyboard.

Um no one force apple to say this machine would be directed to pros. Which they did. And Pros and power users and enthusiasts all want user upgradable storage.  Because 2 years from now a 4TB SSD stick will cost nothing and it's wasteful to then need to toss out an entire machine because it doesnt offer enough storage. Or the other option is to have a rats nest of drives cables ala the oh-so-successful trashcan mac. Yea great choices for the enthusiats.  Way to show you care.

They had all the time in the world, and all they did was slap in current components in the same old case and show they dont give a damn about pros/enthusiasts/power users, and show they do care on gouging on storage prices and using their customers like money mules.

StrangeDays said:

StayPuftZombie said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

A disaster for who? Certainly not for Apple customers as a whole.

This entire response is an overt "Back in my day, it was the golden times!" call-back which doesn't make sense in any other context either. Look back to when the Apple stores were founded, and compare user bases, and numbers of users. You're right -- Apple isn't catering to who it used to in 2002 when the concept launched, and, frankly, it shouldn't, because it doesn't need to.

Apple doesn't need our "help" to do anything, and they sure as hell aren't looking to us for validation. Looking back at your five posts, you lament that Apple isn't aiming products squarely at your needs anymore, and are upset that we aren't defending what you, specifically, want.

Apple will do, what Apple will do -- and you can complain about it if you want. Vote with your wallet, if you don't like it. 

A disaster for apple as whole and for customers that like it. Ignoring the erosion of quality at the stores is like the apple press that wrote glowing articles about how sales were up for Skully while the company degraded until it was almost too late.

Your entire response is one just like supporters of skully provided, congrats for being a living relic yourself.  Pointing to my lack of posts also points to your lack of substance.  

Your banal conclusion does nothing but support mediocrity.  I have more options that. If enough voices point out, the emperor has no clothes, well realizing you have a problem is the first step to fixing it. Apple's numerous about faces in the face of enough backlash prove how hollow your little spat towards my post is (DVD vs CD Burn, bigger screens on iphones, enough backlash for the non upgradable trashcan mac, etc.). If you didnt fundamentally understand that, rather than resorting to low grade derision, you wouldnt bother writing a damn thing. But I await you taking your own advice, just shut up, and vote with your wallet. Yea, right.

So much ignorance, so little time... Hint: web forum backlash isn’t what prompted Apple to go a different direction on the MP. 

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/10/15/2120225/the-new-and-improved-macbook-keyboards-have-the-same-old-problems

"They may be delayed, but they happen nonetheless. The MacRumors forum has a long thread about the the "gen 3 butterfly keyboard" where users have been sharing their experiences since Apple updated the design."

Yep, forums never make a ground swell forcing apple to react.  Like I said, let's not let facts get in the way of a good smug narrative.