ericpeets

dabigkahuna said:

arkorott said:

- The "enforced" refunding

I have disagreed with some of this practice, but I can't disagree with all of it. When someone is posting about how their WT are thieves, their money is being stolen, it will never be delivered, etc, then it is appropriate to refund them. After all, what sane person would actually believe those things yet still keep their order? Now, I can imagine lots of people being worried about eventual delivery, but being willing to continue to take the risk. But those people would be posting differently. I can also see a person getting angry and saying such exaggerated things when, in fact they don't believe them. Think of when a kid says they "hate" their parents - they actually don't, but they are mad and say silly things.

So, in these kinds of cases, it makes sense to cancel them. If the person really believes what they say, they have no logical reason to want to keep their order. If they just lost control for a moment and posted something they really didn't mean, they can reorder and keep their place in line.

Oh we don't care about a few users who cursed, went overboard on WTF and were promptly force-refunded. Most of us agreed and even applauded getting rid of them. We're not talking about them. Only Waytools and you keep referring to them, to rationalize Waytools' chaotic behaviors.

No, we're talking about users who followed the forum rules and how they were dealt with. And they far outnumber the ones that clearly broke the rules. If a user break the rules, close their account and force-refund. Fine. I certainly would not do this, but I can understand. What I don't understand is all the steps in between: shadow-banning so they can't start a thread, silencing your account so they can only like, disabling the account for an arbitrary amount of time, after which you can log back in, demoting your user level, etc.

These tactics serve no other purpose than to just mess with you. It's as if they're saying: "Your money's still good, but you're not" or "Come back later when you can be nice. Your money'll safe with us" or "We kinda sorta didn't like what you said so we demoted you, cuz, you know, we can". Of course, they never warn you beforehand. You just scratch your head while trying to figure it all out. And if you are able to post questions, they'll never answer you. Most of the times, you're not even able to ask, so you end up asking on places like here. And again, no answers.

There is no rhyme or reason why they do this to so many perfectly good forum citizens. Waytools often uses "misrepresentation" as the reason, which could mean virtually anything under creation, though I seriously doubt they know what the word really means. It just sounds good, I guess. And it's clear they won't tolerate sarcasm or humor, unless it's somehow used to sing their praises, and you better sing hard. Otherwise, they may somehow someway take it the wrong way and put you through the gauntlet of demotions, silencing, etc. If you still protest, or just protest at all, they will publicly humiliate you with something like: "You seem stressed by your order. We don't want to give you stress..." -- as if you're the whacko -- before performing force-refund (public execution style): "So we're forced to cancel your order."

"But," they always say. "If you change your mind, you can re-order within a week and keep your place in line." Which is to say, "You're a whack job, we don't like you, but your money's still good."

So, it's no wonder the majority of posts on WTF are birds singing to the choir. I know some are in earnest, excited equally by the textblade as they being chosen for TREG, but the rest you simply have to wonder. I don't see much counterpoints nor anyone taking Waytools to task. It's springtime there for Germany and Waytools Gestapo, while it's winter for Poland for the rest.

dabigkahuna said:

patientlywaiting said:

In their very next post in response to how that unambiguous "Yes" sounded different than previous so-called estimates, they gave a similarly unambiguous "It is". That is to say, Waytools is clearly affirming that their 2019 GR date (2 posts prior) is a higher level of commitment/confidence than their previous so-called estimates. That is not a mere "expectation".

Oh, but I’d say it is still an expectation. Certainly, until it is actually released, nothing can be guaranteed. So it is true they seem to have more confidence in this expectation than others, but I sure didn’t take it as “assured”!

The question was: "Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?" To which Waytools replied: "Yes"

We seem to have become so used to Waytools lying that words so simple and definitive as "Yes" has lost its meaning. There are many other words that can convey doubt, ambiguity, uncertainty, expectations, etc. -- but "Yes" is not one of them. I mean, which part of "Yes" do you not understand?

How low can Waytool's credibility be when their "Yes" leaves so much doubt? The answer is apparently zero. They follow it up with "It is" only because apparently no one believed them. But that followup does nothing to buttress their zero credibility.

Their "Yes" is yet another lie in the making. It's not an estimate, or projection, an expectation, a guess -- a poor one or otherwise. The word is binary. They ship in 2019 or they don't. And if I were a betting man, given their history, my money's on them NOT delivering. To give them any wiggle room to this "Yes" would be to tantamount to redefining the English language, and throwing all words in it into doubt. Definitive words like "YES" and "NO" exist to combat the loose nature of language in general and its tendency to be festered with weasel words. If "Yes" is open to interpretations to mean anything from "probably", "maybe" all the way to "maybe not", "possibly unlikely perhaps", how is anyone to communicate at all?

arkorott said:

WayTools_Support said:

Fortunately, this 500 post thread has ‘TextBladeDenier’ to set us all straight on how to speak rationally, professionally, and respectfully.  

This also shows just how much he cares about his (anonymous) reputation.  His posts are indeed the work of a professional.

And fortuitously, we’ve now too been educated about”lying liars” vs. mere liars.  

For us to comprehend the full spectrum and nuance of lying, it really took the skills of an expert on the subject.

Sorry. Can you please start posting on topic ? It is in your best interest to talk about the TB.
(Because if you don't you really concede the points of deflecting and obfuscating leveled at you by TBD, don't you see? Talking  nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)

I repeat the request for the 3rd time. Hope you don't ignore it again:
Can you outline in broad strokes with potential "estimated" dates for completion of the new firmware and the rest of the hurdles to be overcome until GR ? That would convey a general sense of project status for everybody.

I appreciate your call for positivity and I've tried to model your stance -- taking some time to read through both this thread and WTF -- for anything positive uttered by Waytools recently. But you know, there's nothing, no saving grace. They may be great people in real life (I'll give them that, from what I've read from people who actually met them), but their actions and posts on WTF (and now, here) -- which is the only output general public sees -- are utter trash.

In just the above-said post, you can tell they're kicking and twitching, wanting to ban some accounts and close off some threads -- like Pavlov's dog. Quoting from the Terminator movie: This is what they do; this is ALL they do.

I don't want to be the Debbie-downer here, but I doubt you'll get any answer out of Waytools, if their 4 year-long history is any indication. Better people than us have tried, and got zip.

All I can do as now an ex-customer is to warn the general passerby what they can expect for their $99 + shipping fees.

Isn't it funny how they keep the shipping fees when they haven't delivered ANYTHING and there's no plan to deliver ANYTHING?

WayTools_Support said:

The many, long, stay-on-message posts, before and after our observation, illustrate the opposition PR activity pretty well.

And what pray tell is that message? That you should once and for all ship your product and finally fulfill the 4+ years of pre-order backorders? That you should stop banning your own 'customers' and stop berating them on forums (both your own and other public ones)? That you should stop accusing people without any shred of proof? That you should try answering questions directly rather than making snide remarks and deflecting?

What does your 'observation' tell you the 'message' is? What sort of 'PR activities' are in those posts? Apparently you've put a lot of thought into all this, given your constant repetition thereof. So what's the name of the competitor that's so hell bent on your ruin? Where are all these anonymous alter egos coming from? Why do each one create five alter egos, rather than say six? Ten? Or more?

When it’s pointed out, it gets more strident, personally abusive, and long-winded. That’s to deflect, confuse, and deny what they’re doing.

What have you pointed out? All we see in your strings of fortune cookie template posts are baseless accusations and conspiracy theories bordering on lunacy. If that's your way of 'pointing out' things, you've done a poor job. Fact is, you haven't pointed anything out, just (as you say) cut-and-paste jobs of the same BS to pad your posts.

No elaborate conspiracy.  It’s just a gig, for folks in that business.

No elaborate conspiracy theory from me. All the talk of conspiracy is from you: Anonymous users with five alter egos from a mysterious company (or was it companies) with elaborate schemes to destroy you. They'd mounted a 4+ years-long campaign by planting sleeper cells in Macrumors and here on AI for an elaborate 'PR activity'. What a laugh.

And all this talk about anonymous users. I'm okay with people using nicknames and anonymous ID's, but you should not dis them if you yourself are not willing reveal your own name, much less create elaborate conspiracy theories around them.

They make narrative. We make technology.  No one who buys their product, will buy ours.

Do you even know what 'narrative' means? It's exactly this type of yet another fortune cookie BS you expound. This type of 'we good; they bad' tribal mentality fuels your hallucinatory conspiracy theories will be your downfall. Why wouldn't someone who buys your competitor's product -- unless you refuse to sell one based on your primitive tribal laws?

I myself own several keyboards, ranging from Logitech Dinovo (now defunct) to a Das Keyboard (Mac version) to HHKB to White Fox to a frankenErgodox. Are any of these (or all of these) the mysterious competitor you're so deathly afraid of? Before you have a seizure, I don't work for any of the vendors. Yet, I was perfectly willing to buy yours. Still will, if it comes out on Amazon.

I know that this conspiracy theory is the only defense you have left after your spin on the Macrumors debacle was thoroughly proven wrong, but why don't you give it a rest, return back to earth and do us all (current customers and ex-customers) a solid and address the issues at hand?

dabigkahuna said:

ericpeets said:

You're right. Though I try to provide balance to WT's many messages because they seemed one-sided

And I'd like to add (for people who don't understand), I think most people don't care about $99 after years of waiting. I think most would simply write that off. What they'd like is closure to the messed-up relationship that occurred in the ~4 years of waiting with Waytools. For many people still with orders still pending (and wasn't force-cancelled or anything), they'd like to get some official clarification from Waytools and/or delivery of the product -- anything that could absolve the angst and frustration of waiting and constant frustration from them.

1. Of course they are "one-sided". So is Apple, Samsung, etc. But there isn't anything wrong with that. Nor is in wrong if someone only complains about not having their TB yet. Or about delays. Or lack of an update. They would be "one sided" because of their own bias of wanting something they don't have yet.

Maybe I should have put "one-sided" in quotes, but I was being nice, lest some people think they're being 'attacked' or causing 'verbal violence'. I think it's safe to assume that everyone here and on WTF, most people are used to typical marketing speak, namely Apple, Samsung, et al. And that for someone to point it out (especially by one who had publicly called them 'liar') should raise eye-brows.