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dabigkahuna said:arkorott said:- The "enforced" refundingSo, in these kinds of cases, it makes sense to cancel them. If the person really believes what they say, they have no logical reason to want to keep their order. If they just lost control for a moment and posted something they really didn't mean, they can reorder and keep their place in line.
No, we're talking about users who followed the forum rules and how they were dealt with. And they far outnumber the ones that clearly broke the rules. If a user break the rules, close their account and force-refund. Fine. I certainly would not do this, but I can understand. What I don't understand is all the steps in between: shadow-banning so they can't start a thread, silencing your account so they can only like, disabling the account for an arbitrary amount of time, after which you can log back in, demoting your user level, etc.
These tactics serve no other purpose than to just mess with you. It's as if they're saying: "Your money's still good, but you're not" or "Come back later when you can be nice. Your money'll safe with us" or "We kinda sorta didn't like what you said so we demoted you, cuz, you know, we can". Of course, they never warn you beforehand. You just scratch your head while trying to figure it all out. And if you are able to post questions, they'll never answer you. Most of the times, you're not even able to ask, so you end up asking on places like here. And again, no answers.
There is no rhyme or reason why they do this to so many perfectly good forum citizens. Waytools often uses "misrepresentation" as the reason, which could mean virtually anything under creation, though I seriously doubt they know what the word really means. It just sounds good, I guess. And it's clear they won't tolerate sarcasm or humor, unless it's somehow used to sing their praises, and you better sing hard. Otherwise, they may somehow someway take it the wrong way and put you through the gauntlet of demotions, silencing, etc. If you still protest, or just protest at all, they will publicly humiliate you with something like: "You seem stressed by your order. We don't want to give you stress..." -- as if you're the whacko -- before performing force-refund (public execution style): "So we're forced to cancel your order."
"But," they always say. "If you change your mind, you can re-order within a week and keep your place in line." Which is to say, "You're a whack job, we don't like you, but your money's still good."
So, it's no wonder the majority of posts on WTF are birds singing to the choir. I know some are in earnest, excited equally by the textblade as they being chosen for TREG, but the rest you simply have to wonder. I don't see much counterpoints nor anyone taking Waytools to task. It's springtime there for Germany and Waytools Gestapo, while it's winter for Poland for the rest.
WayTools_Support said:Yeah, yeah - definitely.
That’s how you summoned just the right tone to abuse that editor!
Definitely. Claymore mines in her cornflakes, breakfast email sort of thing, that’ll do it.
Totally feeling it man. Even Shrek’s donkey can feel that connection.
And for sure, the best cover - just point to the nerds. Their tech did it. Yeah, there’s the culprit.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
You know, the sociopath for hire, the abuse made to order!
Shut down the writer, and dis the inventors in one neat step.
Brilliant, perfect crime!
Seriously, are you on drugs? I have no idea what you're trying to say. You can come back with something like: Oh, yes you do... all you want but I honestly cannot decrypt your gobbledygook.
Is it a response to any of my posts -- to which I can respond? I have no idea. You've only addressed my point-blank questions with cyclical or recursive words.
What are you trying to say here? Who are you talking to? Do you talk like this in real life too? Do you see only alter egos in the real world too? Do you always think everyone is out to get you? How do you function in the real society, much less run a business?
I don't know if you're a hired PR person or the CEO Mark Knighton, but I know you've been there for long time, as you always write like this. In fact, people have been commenting on your strange writing style even in your own forums. Quote:
I suggest you take remedial English (if it is indeed not your first, or even second? language). More than that, though, I recommend getting some therapy to deal with your paranoia and hallucinations. Only then can there be a functional conversation. As it stands, communication with you (and your company) is futile.jacobolus
The waytools representative here uses lots of big words, but in unidiomatic / incorrect / awkward ways, as if he’s a non-native English speaker writing using a bilingual dictionary, or a high school student who just got his first thesaurus. It’s very disorienting to read, especially when combined with his strong emotional responses.
I'd like to reiterate that I am a fan of your product, and would love to see it actually hit the market (especially Amazon). Then and only then would I consider buying, since I'd be dealing with Amazon's great customer service and not your company or your PR person. And I hope it's perfect (as you're hoping it to be) and never breaks, because I'd never want to contact your support.
Because the mobile AppleInsider forum site doesn’t let me break up your quotes by section, I’ve numbered your points and will respond by number.
1. Reliable Bluetooth is hard. See everyone else’s comments about getting keyboards and headphones to work reliably. The only headphone that I’ve heard “just works” is AirPods, and so it’s no surprise it took the world by storm. Touted as “Apple’s best product” even though they also make the iPhone that you pair it with. The most humorous anecdote about Bluetooth that sums it up for me, is John Gruber’s comment - the Bluetooth slogan should be: it’ll work great next year.
Programming bluetooth is not hard. Even junior programmers I work with can get things working. BT protocol is kinda messed up, has been from the beginning. Even the authors state as much, but programming it to get simple device like a keyboard is not hard. Several mech keyboards for example can be retrofitted with bluetooth chips and get bluetooth functionality up and running within a day. Have you done any bluetooth programming, or are you just repeating what Waytools and others on the forum said?2. They haven’t gone to General Release yet - something they are honest about. Keys for Kids would logically come after General Release - there’s no point shipping incomplete products to kids.
Go back and read their marketing material (if it's still up). They said they will donate once they reached a quota (I believe it was 10,000). Certainly, they never said the donation may take over four years.3. I’ve never seen them silencing an account. I’ve been on the forum at least 2 years, maybe 3. If you sound like the $99 is causing you more stress than it should, they will refund you immediately, and give you a week to exercise the option to reinstate your order without losing your place in line. If someone is distressed about the money and doesn’t reinstate their order, then I’d say WayTools did the right thing in refunding them!
They don’t silence posts. Some people on the forums go on such a ridiculous tirade, that any mature adult will recognize that’s just BMW (bitching, moaning, whining). If you were to BMW amongst your friends who were having fun, they’d point it out to you and probably you’d snap out of it. Or you’d flush with embarrassment. I think that happens when someone gets called out on the forums for BMW. As it should. We are adults, and we should be called out on bad behaviour.
There’s nothing that makes the internet a cesspit more than the racist BS posted by “Anonymous Coward” on SlashDot. Done in real life, in public, there’d be stares of disapproval and others crossing to the other side of the street to avoid you and show you that such viewpoints are not acceptable. It doesn’t seem to work on the internet.
4. I’ve never seen a shadow ban, so kindly link to one as proof. I have seen people not staying on topic, and go off on a serious tangent. It’s seriously not fun to read those posts - and just like the racist posts on SlashDot, these posts even get upvotes?!?!? Where is the ban feauture you allude to?
Discourse, which is the forum software they use, has such features. Download a copy and look at the source code. You can set a user so he's unable to start a thread, and also you can limit him to just like a post and nothing more. If you're not able to read the code, just take a gander at the textblade subreddit. Most of the BMW'ers there were either force-cancelled or shadow-banned. A few still have their accounts, but can't say anything.
Regarding anonymous posts, Taco has stated several times early on the merits of speaking anonymously, thus his reasons for keeping it, though the label is tongue-in-cheek. One of his reasons, IIRC, alluded to a rape victims forum where it was almost mandatory to be anonymous. Just because you think people who post anonymously just spits out racist BS and are of cesspit ilk doesn't mean there's no value.
What are you trying to say? Pomp and arrogance is the correct way to deal with people who are not that hip on technology? I don't know about you, but I've been on both sides of BOFH, and it never helps the situation. I can probably stomp on some people with what little tech know-how I have, but what does that accomplish, especially if those people were paying me, even more especially if I failed to deliver? I guess you don't see any arrogance on Waytools' part because you hate the same people Waytools abuse and/or think yourself much higher than them.5. WayTools isn’t pompous or arrogant. What I find is a startling lack of understanding of technology on the internet. So if they have to use an analogy for “new technology that is hard to develop and takes a long time to get right” then I think a comparison to Tesla is warranted. People “get” car development takes a long time. For some reason they don’t realize software development is far more difficult. 4 wheels and a motor is hard, but one that doesn’t drive you into parked fire trucks and concrete barriers, is at least 100 times harder.6. You’re overlooking the many people who read the forums and don’t say anything. People who wait patiently. They comment when they feel they can add. Unsurprisingly, TREGgers have a lot to say about a keyboard on a keyboard forum, especially one that has become their favourite keyboard. It’s not a cult board. There are lots of participants from many walks of life, and when the topic is right, they say something. I didn’t even know there were pilots on the forum, until they commented on Boeing - in a post that was examining how Boeing had trouble with software.