AppleSince1976

crowley said:

AppleSince1976 said:

crowley said:

AppleSince1976 said:

crowley said:

AppleSince1976 said:

You will note that the adhesive that Apple used is a non-hardening, reusable (with care) pressure-sensitive type. It was not done to thwart access, or to make something non-repairable; but rather because Apple, like many companies, generally dislike the look of exposed fasteners.

Name a single other Apple computer product where this is the case.

Only all of them, since the Lisa.

False.  Every MacBook I've ever owned has had exposed screws on the outside.  The iMacs I've had haven't had screws, but have been accessible without any breakage or waste product.  Certainly every Mac Pro has been very easily accessible.  And from my knowledge of the Mac mini, that's been the case there too, via the bottom disk which screws out in some manner.

As I said to the other guy we're talking about access from the externals chassis to the internals, not specific replacement of particular internals.

You are right about the MacBooks, and the Mac Pro is absolutely designed to be opened up.

But both the iMac (all aluminum models) and original Mac mini have no visible case fasteners (iMac and mini’s Screwtop RAM Doors notwithstanding). I seem to remember some adventure getting to the fasteners on my Bondi iMac and my eMac, too.

So, no, it isn’t every Mac since the Lisa; but, suffice it to say, many Apple computers have had non-obvious ways of gaining entry to the innards.

Bottom line: The Mac Studio’s stick-on ring (that is easily and non-destuctively removed and replaced) is 100% equivalent to using stick-on feet used to hide the initial disassembly fasteners on literally millions of consumer products.

I have been an electronic repair tech. You are absolutely out to lunch on this one. Give it up!

Nope.   I disagree.  The stick-on-ring is unnecessary and mind numbingly stupid.  It's the underside of the unit, the screws should absolutely be exposed, just like on many other Macs (including Macs where you're far more likely to see the underside), there is no need at all to cover them and require a removal that is likely destructive to access the internals.  It's an actively hostile and provocative design choice.

If other manufacturers have done similar things then they're also stupid, I don't accept that as an excuse.

How in TF is pulling off a rubber ring “…likely destructive to access the internals.”?

Listen: Gently use a hair dryer on Low a little to soften the adhesive before using the guitar pick to pry up the Rubber Ring, if the adhesive is too strong for you. The ring will come right off! And go right back on, provided you don’t wash it in the sink, use it to de-fuzz your pants or groom your cat, or spray it with WD-40…

tl;dr

Nothing to see here; move along.

crowley said:

AppleSince1976 said:

crowley said:

AppleSince1976 said:

You will note that the adhesive that Apple used is a non-hardening, reusable (with care) pressure-sensitive type. It was not done to thwart access, or to make something non-repairable; but rather because Apple, like many companies, generally dislike the look of exposed fasteners.

Name a single other Apple computer product where this is the case.

Only all of them, since the Lisa.

False.  Every MacBook I've ever owned has had exposed screws on the outside.  The iMacs I've had haven't had screws, but have been accessible without any breakage or waste product.  Certainly every Mac Pro has been very easily accessible.  And from my knowledge of the Mac mini, that's been the case there too, via the bottom disk which screws out in some manner.

As I said to the other guy we're talking about access from the externals chassis to the internals, not specific replacement of particular internals.

You are right about the MacBooks, and the Mac Pro is absolutely designed to be opened up.

But both the iMac (all aluminum models) and original Mac mini have no visible case fasteners (iMac and mini’s Screwtop RAM Doors notwithstanding). I seem to remember some adventure getting to the fasteners on my Bondi iMac and my eMac, too.

crowley said:

AppleSince1976 said:

You will note that the adhesive that Apple used is a non-hardening, reusable (with care) pressure-sensitive type. It was not done to thwart access, or to make something non-repairable; but rather because Apple, like many companies, generally dislike the look of exposed fasteners.

Name a single other Apple computer product where this is the case.

Only all of them, since the Lisa.

As far as adhesives, Apple (and everyone else!) uses Adhesives in some part of the final assembly of every mobile device on the market. Universally, Display assemblies are glued-into the chassis of smartphones and tablets. Why do you think all these repair-kits have those guitar-pick looking tools to help hold the pieces apart while pry-off the display? Why do you think all those repair guides start with using a heat gun to soften the adhesive?

Some people seem to revel in their willful blindness. . .

xp17 said:

zimmie said:

So at least we know the SSD on the Mac Pro will still be replaceable, like it is today. There wouldn't be any reason to have a non-user-accessible flash cart if they didn't plan to make a replaceable one.

I wonder if anyone has compared the pinout of the Mac Studio's flash carts to the flash carts in the iMac Pro and Mac Pro. The Mac Studio carts are shorter, so maybe the notch is moved to make them physically incompatible.

I haven't yet been able to find a report of anybody who has changed the flash carts in an iMac Pro, but I bet it's the same process as the Mac Pro. Shut down, pull the SSDs, restore the T2 using Apple Configurator. The Mac Studio and new Mac Pro will probably be the same once Apple Configurator is updated for the new Mac Pro.

You're wrong. This is not SDSD. it's just NAND memory modules. All electronics, drivers are on the motherboard. This cannot be changed

But the modules can be changed, added-to, and upgraded, providing a few rules are followed:

1. All modules remaining after the Update must be the same manufacturer and capacity as each other (but not necessarily the same capacity and mfg. as the original module(s)).

2. You must make a Time Machine backup (if you value your data!) of the entire machine.

3. You must use DFU mode and IPSW tools to prepare the “Secure Enclave” inside the M1 SoC to accept the new storage configuration.

Sorry for cross-posting; but…

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/21/mac-studio-ssd-not-user-upgradeable/

crowley said:

citpeks said:

crowley said:

regurgitatedcoprolite said:

It’s hilarious to watch some of the “YouTubers” out there gnash their teeth and complain about how difficult it is to take apart a Mac Studio. 

It’s clear to me that none of them have ever worked on a car, where one has to do things lying on his back, deal with grease and oil, etc. 

Computers are easy if one takes his time, organizes parts, and has any mechanical ability. 

Are there any cars where you have to damage a glued-on plastic seal in order to uncover screws that need to be removed in order to access anything?

Those screws should not have been covered. For every right thing Apple does there’s always a mind numbingly stupid thing they do to compensate.

There are trim panel fasteners that are essentially one-use only, because they get destroyed, or at least damaged, when removed.  Need to replace something like a window regulator?  Order new clips for the door panel as well.

Things like head bolts are torque-to-yield, and need to be replaced.  Aluminum bolts (seen on BMW engines) that are single-use and replaced.

Self-locking nylon nuts used on suspension parts.  Gaskets, especially metal ones, are replaced when parts are disassembled.

Shall I go on?

No self-respecting tinkerer, or mechanic is going to panic when they encounter a fastener or other obstacle they aren't prepared to remove.  They either procure the proper tool, fabricate one of their own, or find the solution to get the job done.

Screwgate was a self-serving publicity stunt concocted by iFixit to bring bad press to Apple, and promote their own tool sales.  I can appreciate their teardowns, guides, and even the need to support their efforts through such sales, but the manner in which they perpetrated that brouhaha cost them my respect, at least.

On a broader level, the cliché about the insanity of doing something over and over and expecting a different result became applicable to Apple a long time ago.

Why people still expect the company to design their products differently is puzzling, and the bellyaching is tiresome. But it garners clicks, views, and sales.

It's easy to tell those who have worked on things, and those who pretend to.

So no, there is no car where you have to forcibly remove a seal to access anything.  There are some places where you might need to replace something to do a very particular task.  Pretty different.

And in any case, car manufacturers also being shitty doesn't make Apple any less shitty.

Get over yourself!

there are myriad pieces of equipment where the only way to begin disassembly is by prying-off adhesive-backed rubber feet to access the screws. Sometimes the feet stick back on, often they don’t.

This is nothing new.

You will note that the adhesive that Apple used is a non-hardening, reusable (with care) pressure-sensitive type. It was not done to thwart access, or to make something non-repairable; but rather because Apple, like many companies, generally dislike the look of exposed fasteners.

If they wanted to make it so you couldn’t open their equipment, I assure you, companies such as 3M and Loctite sell a whole range of industrial adhesives that are much stronger than the materials they are attaching!

ProTip: Placing those adhesive feet (or the Studio’s rubber ring!) on a piece of waxed-paper after removal will help them stay clean so they will stick back on. A small amount of Rubber Cement or “Repositionable” aerosol artist’s adhesive may help when replacing, if the ring/feet won’t stick back on!

https://www.amazon.com/Elmers-E904-Rubber-Cement-Repositionable/dp/B0141N3080/


https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Heavy-Adhesive-Multipurpose-Repositionable/dp/B0752XM8VN/