jdw

chasm said:

First point, regarding Tim Cook: no, he's not a political activist for "a tiny and arguably 'insignificant' percentage of the population." He's a human rights advocate...

Second point, regarding Apple "owing": you're (willfully) misinterpreting what Mike has said. He's been clear in saying that Apple doesn't "owe" veteran customers machines that are exclusively geared to them...

Back in the 80s and early 90s when the majority of Mac buyers were "creative pros," Apple built machines that excelled at that. Today, that is a TINY percentage (well under 10 percent.

If Apple "owes" anyone, it's their shareholders...

No one can truly say what Tim Cook is other than Tim Cook himself, but the fact remains that he is a staunch defender of a small segment of the population because he himself is a part of that segment.  It is a fact.  Label it what you will, but I was speaking about specifics with regard to "percentages of the population" to make the point that numbers don't necessarily matter at Apple.  Even Steve Jobs himself said that numerous times.  It wasn't about being the biggest or making the most money.  It was about a "core philosophy."  Again, that is my point.  My point was to steer us away from those cold, heartless "numbers," which don't always matter.

The person who started the use of the word "owe" was not me.  That word was put into my mouth and I was merely trying to take it out.  I did that by saying there are indeed times when Apple owes.  If it is argued that I took words out of context, then I would argue my earlier words were taken out of context in that I never said "owe" in my opening post in this thread.  End of story.

I already dealt with "creative pros" in my previous post, but based on your remarks I now should make it more clear.  PEOPLE WITH THE MONEY AND DESIRE BUY MACS, EVEN MACS GEARED FOR AN AUDIENCE THAT WOULDN'T INCLUDE THEM.  

It doesn't matter if you are a creative pro or a man on the moon.  If you have cash and desire, you will buy whatever Mac you want.  That was the point I was making in my previous post.  It doesn't matter if Apple targets the Mac Pro at whom they deem "a pro."  If I as a non-Pro want it and have the money, I shall buy it.  Again, that is my point.  So there is no reason to talk about creative pros or what Apple did in the past.  My earlier post was about QUALITY and that transcends all the talk of creative pros and target audience.  The fact remains Apple built their computers like tanks in the past and they lasted a very long time.  It can be argued that has changed in recent years, for a variety of reasons, but that change is nevertheless a reality. (I speak of Macs, not iOS devices.  In my experience, iOS devices are built rock solid.)  But that doesn't mean we ought to throw up our hands and say, "Well, if they could make a better Mac in terms of quality, they would."  Sometimes Apple needs a little prodding, and as I stated before, I do leave them such feedback on a regular basis.  Yet others trying to force Apple to act using legal action, but I for one am staunchly against using the courts for that.  And as to whether the removal of the SD card slot (which is used for supplementing storage too, BTW, not just for camera users), I stand by my earlier comments.  Just because some of you, my highly respected fellow Mac users, don't need it doesn't mean no one needs it.  And indeed, Apple thought people needed it for a very long time because it was in Apple notebooks for a long time.  I could go on, but I spare you.

As to AAPL shareholders, I happen to be one.  I first started buying AAPL in 1999 and have continued throughout they years, never selling a single share.  As to what AAPL owes me, well, I lived a long time without dividends (prior to 2012), and you know what?  I never though Apple owed me any dividends.  Never.  Again, I don't know where this "owing" thing came up, but let's dispense with it, please!

All I did is express disappointment with the 2016 and now 2017 rMBP 15", then spoke of quality citing two examples from my own Mac collection, and then I received a brow-beating by my fellow Apple/Mac lovers.  (But despite that, I hold no animosity toward any of you.  We can agree to disagree.)    That is why I said "empathy" and "love of one's fellow man" is what we need the most.  I stand by those words.

- - - - 

Mike W., thanks for letting me know about the pork and brisket.  Your post reminded me that I need fire up the BBQ this weekend.

Mike Wuerthele said:

.,, But -- one more time -- We are not Apple's target market anymore, and they owe us nothing. 

Be mad. Tell Apple corporate what you like and what you don't -- you are doing that, right, and not just howling into the void or venting at Apple retail people? 

Just don't expect them to bend to your will, or decide that the 1% of the 12% deserve more than 0.001 percent of Apple's attention.

If we are not Apple's target for a "rMBP" then who is?  Going a step further, who is the target for the Mac Pro?  Only Pros?  Or  is it "anyone who has both money and desire to buy either one of those machines"? And what percentage of the tiny slice of Mac buyers who buy a pricey Mac Pro participated in the "constant negativity" which Apple publicly said made them rethink the Mac Pro completely? (Apple bending to the will of the complainers.)  This is an important point of consideration. 

You strongly emphasized numbers and insignificance.  It is however rather interesting to note though that Tim Cook himself does not follow such strict obedience to the numbers. Tim Cook himself has become a political activist of sorts for a tiny and arguably "insignificant" percentage of the population, standing in their defense.  In other words, the numbers which preach "insignificance" aren't everything at Apple.

Apple owes its customers great value for the price, and through the years Apple has done a decent job of that.  But an overly broad statement that "Apple owes us (paying customers) nothing" is not correct.   If I pay Apple to buy a Mac, they owe me the Mac until it is in my hands. If I buy AppleCare, they old me 3 years of special support in accordance with the terms of the AppleCare agreement.  I could go on, but the point is clear.  There are indeed situations when Apple "owes."   And let's face it. If Apple didn't feel they owed their retina MacBook Pro customers anything, they would not have extended the screen replacement program for the laminated screens until October 2017.   People who have purchased Apple devices since the 1980s and have seen an extremely high level of quality through the early years will naturally expect Apple to continue producing the same level of quality as time goes on. There's nothing really wrong about that. 

I do send Apple feedback on the variety of topics and about many different products on a regular basis, and I've even mentioned that I do so in these forums.  I would like to encourage everyone else here to do so as well.  And you know what? I even send Apple feedback of praise when I feel overjoyed they done something really, really right.  Feedback to Apple doesn't always have to be negative. 

Lastly, even when we disagree, let us be nice to each other (which you were, Mike, thank you) but let us also show some empathy.  Just because a couple people in a forum here aren't praising Apple perpetually (I praise Apple more than complain) doesn't mean we ought to go in the defensive and try to protect Apple as if they are somehow unable to do that themselves.   People who are feeling down about an Apple purchase really don't need to hear an endless defense of the status quo at Cupertino. Apple is more than capable of defending themselves.   If the world needs anything, it's not a new Mac. It's love of our fellow man and empathy and when we see someone is down. 

Anyway, let us know how the smoked pork turned out.  That sounds great!

The previous 3 posts are but a defense of the status quo.  The remarks made do little to push humanity forward and merely gloss over legitimate points of concern, reinterpreting them as "no problems at all."  

People in online forums could use a bit more empathy along the lines of, "I may now agree with you on all points, but we both love Apple.  Even though many people may join you in your opinion, here's why I prefer the new machine."  Beating someone when they are down with a sledgehammer of "garbage" is just plain horrid.  Wherefore art though, Civility?

Fulfilling the promise?

Let's see...

• Smaller battery to make the case as thin as Mr. Ive alone wanted
• No internal SD card slot, necessitating the need for a stupid dongle
• Not even 1 legacy USB-A connector, necessitating the need for another dongle or adapter
• No MagSafe = NotSafe
• No LED on power connector
• Trackpad so large you need extremely advanced palm rejection to make it usable
• No illuminated Apple logo on back
• Still no 32GB of RAM

Yeah, that's fulfilling a promise alright.

And before the status-quo-at-Cupertino defenders start to take issue with me, consider well I speak of the 15" model, which has plenty of space to have accommodated 1 legacy USB-A port and an SD card slot.  At the very least they should have done that.  USB-C won't be seen "pretty much everywhere" for at least another 3-5 years.  Having one legacy USB-A port would have been the right thing to do, to slowly transition the machine into the future.  And as to SD cards, they are no going anywhere, not even 5 years hence.  The remove of that was just a stupid over simplification.  And I say this as someone who tends to like Apple's simplifications.

Last November I turned a blind eye to the above deficiencies and placed an order for the 2016 MBP 15", top-end spec.  After a month of waiting, I could wait no more so I cancelled the order and found a top-end late 2015 edition rMBP 15" with dGPU.  I bought that and until a week ago did not regret that decision.  Now after a merely 5 light wipe-downs of the screen, the anti-glare coating is starting to come off as shown in my video here:



I used to think Apple was an exception to the rule when one thought about "American Made."  You know what I mean.  American cars compared to Japanese cars being no comparison in that American cars break down far more.  Yet in years past I always thought Apple in a class of its own.  Then I bought a late 2009 iMac and had the video card die just after the AppleCare expired, and it took an email to Tim Cook to get it fixed, which I appreciate.  But 3 years after the video card swap the same problem happened, prompting me to perform a DIY fix as shown here:



I love Apple, yet Apple pisses me off too.  Boy do they piss me off.  Especially the stupid delimitation problem even on the last good rMBP (the 2015 edition).  Joining the Staingate FaceBook page I see people who are on their 3 screen and still have the same problem, which means Apple never fixed the problem.  And who knows if the 2016 and 2017 rMBP's have that problem too.  Yet I've never had such delimitation problems on any iOS device, despite my having cleaned them in a more harsh way (rubbing my iPad on my T-shirt, etc.).  If Apple can make decent iOS devices, what's the deal with the low Mac quality?

I've also owned a variety of Macs since my first Mac, the 128k, in 1984.  Macs of old were truly built like tanks and even now I have my vintage Macs like the SE/30 going strong.  But more modern Macs are of a different level of quality.

Low quality Macs Apple won't fix (replacing a screen that has a delimitation problem with another screen that will potential have the same problem is no fix at all), coupled with gutted "pro" machines (read the caveat list above) makes me sick to my stomach.  I want to continue to love my favorite computer maker, but what in the world is wrong with Apple?  Why can't all that money, all those employees, and all that sheer brainpower produce a level of quality in their computers that matches the price?  The previous poster said, "With Apple you get your money's worth."  More than 10 years ago, I would have agreed.  But as I've said, Macs in recent years are not necessarily one's that give you your money's worth.  And it saddens me terribly to say that.  Indeed, I want Apple to change that, while making it right with all the customers who have been plagued with problems.

Sorry for the rant.  I'm just frustrated to tears.

Ridiculous how Apple keeps the Mac Pro alive knowing full well how few people will buy it versus "the majority of people" and yet they continue to refuse to give us a Pro sized screen when it comes to the MacBook.  If they can sell a Mac Pro, they can see a 17" screen sized MBP, especially if they use that extra size to add plenty of ports and retain a good keyboard!  Think about how much lighter and more portable a modern version could be too, even with a legacy USB-A port and SD card slot, versus the old model 17" MBP!  

My wife told me to buy a laptop, so I bought a 15" MBP (the "good" 2015 model, of course) and then she said the screen was too small.  I told her Apple doesn't make a 17" anymore and she grew noticeably upset.  It upsets me too, even though I've never had a 17" before.

Even if some of you out there don't really want one, just be kind and join those of us who do.  Make your case known to Apple here:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html