tht

To me, this is a strange rumor. I would think the M5 iPad Pro is using the exact same display as the M4 iPad Pro. These displays are already being mass produced in the millions of units per year.

So, what information is being used to say that the M5 iPP OLED displays have entered mass production? They are already in mass production. So, the data is an increase mass production? More companies being awarded iPP tandem OLED contracts?

Also, a component can be ready, but the product may not be, as some other part could delay it. Really hoping these M5 iPP do ship in the fall. 

Currently, iPhones use passive cooling by leveraging the metal and glass of the iPhone body. However, during intense usage, this can result in warnings that the iPhone must cool down, preventing further use of the device for a short time.

The new report from Majin Bu -- who has a mixed track record for accuracy -- confirms that the vapor chamber cooling technique will debut in the iPhone 17, expected to debut this fall. While the report claims to be from an "internal source," it hedges its bet by saying that a design is "still evolving, with some challenges to address."

Vapor chambers are used in many Android phones as a way to dissipate heat when the device is under intense usage, such as during gaming sessions. The technique involves allowing a chamber of liquid to absorb heat from the device, causing the liquid to evaporate.

Android phones that use vapor chamber still have to use the metal and glass of their bodies to dissipate heat. The heat transfer process is as efficient as the least efficient part of the chain in the heat transfer process.

The heat has to go from the SoC chip to the outside air. The vapor chamber takes the heat from the SoC chip to presumably graphene sheets that spreads that heat out across the footprint of the phone as much as possible. The heat then is transferred to the glass and metal, and then to the air, and your hand, a table, a pocket, whatever the outside is in contact with. (If the outside air is 110 °F, well, find some shade).

Moving heat from the SoC chip to the graphene sheet (or other heat spreader) could be a bottleneck as chips are very small while transferring heat through a conduction path with solid metal needs a certain amount of contact area. The higher the power per unit area of the SoC, the more using a solid metal (with a thermal paste interface) becomes a bottleneck. A vapor chamber can address that as it can transfer more heat per unit area. That heat still needs to get out of the phone.

It's really not a sign that Apple is wringing more performance out of the chip, per se. They were doing fine before with dumb metal and thermal paste conduction paths. If they are resorting to vapor chambers, it is a sign that the SoC chip, especially the CPU and GPU cores, are getting smaller, using more power, or both.

The next generation N3P process from TSMC, which the next gen Apple silicon is rumored fo be fabbed on, is a 3rd gen TSMC 3nm process. Improvements in transistor density and power consumption are at best 5% to 10% over N3E (used in M4 gen SoCs), while Apple is trying eek out 10 to 20% improvements. That means these N3P chips need to use more power, relative to N3E, to get those performance improvements, and drives the need for a more performant cooling system. It also would mean your phone would feel hotter more often, unless that can spread the heat across graphene sheets even more.

At least, this how I would look at a rumor of Apple using vapor chambers. The power consumption per unit area is going up, requiring vapor chambers to remove heat to enable performance gains. It's not a plus. It's a mitigation.

mattinoz said:

tht said:

The leaker says that the A19 should be able to "catch up" with the Elite 2, due to having a higher level of Instructions Per Cycle (IPC) and better efficiency. However, they warn that the performance is not much higher than the Qualcomm competitor.

Leaker sounds stupid and you shouldn’t promulgate his narrative. It’s been decades of systems with multiprocessor and SIMD units on mass market computing systems. You should know what particular aspects of a computing system benefits a mass market consumer the most. 

It’s basically single core performance, memory performance and storage performance. Apple is crushing QCOM and others with single core performance. It affects every single part of what a user experiences. Memory and storage performance contribute to the experience a user sees. Faster loads, more stuff remaining in memory, etc. 

With multi-core and SIMD units (AI, NPU, even GPUs), the niches come into play. Less and less applications can actually take advantage of the compute, therefore less and less users. 

Apple prioritizes single core (both CPU and GPU), memory and storage performance; and, equally, it is balanced with power consumption. Everything else is part of the amalgam of what the iPhone is sold to users for. Camera ISP has to be good. Secure Enclave is basically in independent system including its own operating system inside the platform. 

What this leaker is saying sounds like a bunch of bullshit, demonstrating a lack of understanding of how computers work. 

How much usefulness would there be in Apple leveraging the work they have done with either the C1 or R1 assuming they aren’t just the same core chip with different packaging to suit the sensors attached and processed?

As Secure Enclave is a separate system that has to handle most data in out like the old fashioned south bridge then why not make an R/C2 chiplet that handles the real time events for the system but move more functions to it to even out loads between different platforms. 

I think it would be great if the R1 is subsumed as an ASIC or a "compute unit" in the main SoC chip. Have been wanting them to bring the realtime frameworks from visionOS to iOS, iPadOS, etc, so that all touch events, all input events, and the GUI are handled by the realtime frameworks. It would hopefully guarantee a minimum lag time to touch events.

The C1? Probably a separate chip, but possibly in the package, at a future date. It just depends on whether Apple wants to offer cell service on all Macs. Cell service is about $500 per year in revenue. Apple will want a cut of that, or they have their own cell service. If they already had their own cell service, I'd be much more confident that they'd include a cell modem into their SoCs. Currently, it's going to be a separate chip for a while.

snookie said:

tht said:

Wesley_Hilliard said:

It's something like 16. Which is a wild number. And like Stage Manager, it just kicks out the oldest window when the threshold is crossed.

I opened 14 for a screenshot and it was too much to manage. Stages allow you to have more because the limit is per stage.

Thanks!

Are you able to test 4, 6, 8 and 16 GB RAM iPads?

And, it is 16 windows per display? 16 on external display and 16 on the iPad display?

Holding out for the M5 iPad Pro, which hopefully will have 32 GB RAM options. 

Unlikley the M5 iPad is going to double max ram to 32.  But I’m glad I have 16 on my M4 iPad Pro.

The timing seems right for 16, 24, 32 GB RAM options in the iPad Pro, or perhaps 12, 24 GB RAM tiers, but I think it will be 16, 32. They might surprise us and separate RAM and storage options for the iPad Pro.

16 GB has been in the 1+ GB storage option for 3 models now, since 2021. That's a long time waiting for their 8 and 16 GB RAM packages to mature (ie, prices to go down). I think they are already there as a 32 GB RAM option is offered for all M4 Macs. Then, they have implemented more advanced windowing and background tasking in iPadOS 26, enabling users to use ever more RAM. 16 GB base RAM on the iPad Pro would also further separate and segment the iPP from the iPA.

So, the timing for 32 GB on the iPad Pro seems more than right if the M5 models come out this Fall.

The leaker says that the A19 should be able to "catch up" with the Elite 2, due to having a higher level of Instructions Per Cycle (IPC) and better efficiency. However, they warn that the performance is not much higher than the Qualcomm competitor.