davidw

eimoaotl said:

Trey_Lance said:

eimoaotl said:

There is a lot of vitriol on here against Epic.  I personally think that iOS has become like Windows and Mac, where it is a general operating system and that Apple should no longer be allowed to determine what I can and cannot do with the operating system.  My phone and my iPad are not like my gaming console - I use my iOS devices for basically everything, I use my xbox just for gaming and streaming shows.  I don’t think iOS and gaming consoles are equivalent.  But I do think iOS and windows are equivalent as they are both operating systems that enable me to do “limitless” things depending on software and how much limitation Microsoft and Apple actually put on them.  Same goes for the Mac my wife uses. Can you imagine how angry people would be if Windows mandated that everything now had to go through the Windows store and through their payment system?

Vitriol vs Epic is deserved. They are a greedy and despicable fools.

also what you are saying makes no sense. You can jail break your IOS or do whatever. What does any you said have to do with Epic making money off Apple Ecosystem which they spent years building and invested in? The Apple App Store is Apples
Intellectual property and you think you pay a few hundred for a few devices, you can tells them what to do with it?

if you had a restaurant , you spent years building up your customers , i sell
drinks and I rent a small shelf from you and some well but one day I decided I will no longer pay you and follow your rules but I still will use your restaurant, would you be ok with that? If you say yes, you are either lying or dumber than a grass hopper

So by your reasoning, because Microsoft has spent years building and investing in Windows, they should therefore be able to block any app they wish on Windows, and force anyone that uses any program on Windows to pay them 30% of their charges?  How dare Adobe make money off of Microsofts hard work in developing Windows?  Pay the troll to cross your bridge, because you were the one that built it? Even if it is the only bridge there because you won’t let me build any other bridges because you built your bridge first?  Apple is a monopoly and if the US doesn’t act at least the EU will. 

Microsoft does exactly that with their Microsoft Store on an X-Box. How dare if Epic want to be in the Microsoft Store and not want to pay Microsoft for all the hard work they did developing the X-Box OS and hardware over the years.  

And guess what, there's a Microsoft Store for Windows that does exactly that. MS is going to be updating their commission soon but before then, MS takes a 30% cut of software downloaded from their Microsoft Store in Windows, on to a PC running Windows 10. Notice that even if a developer were to use their own site to process payment, download and install their software on to a PC with Windows 10, Microsoft still wants a 5% cut. Otherwise it will go down from 30% to 12%. Sure  a developer can package and sell a retail disc and have the customer install their software for free. But I bet that will cost them more than the 30%, soon to be 12%, commission they have to pay MS for selling their software in the Microsoft Store for Windows.   

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2018/05/07/a-new-microsoft-store-revenue-share-is-coming/

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/29/22409285/microsoft-store-cut-windows-pc-games-12-percent  ;

eimoaotl said:

greginprague said:

eimoaotl said:

There is a lot of vitriol on here against Epic.  I personally think that iOS has become like Windows and Mac, where it is a general operating system and that Apple should no longer be allowed to determine what I can and cannot do with the operating system.  My phone and my iPad are not like my gaming console - I use my iOS devices for basically everything, I use my xbox just for gaming and streaming shows.  I don’t think iOS and gaming consoles are equivalent.  But I do think iOS and windows are equivalent as they are both operating systems that enable me to do “limitless” things depending on software and how much limitation Microsoft and Apple actually put on them.  Same goes for the Mac my wife uses. Can you imagine how angry people would be if Windows mandated that everything now had to go through the Windows store and through their payment system?

Windows has a dominant share of the computer operating system market.  iOS does not have a dominant share of the mobile operating system market in any country or geographical area.  You can choose to go somewhere else for your mobile platform if you are unhappy with the App Store.

But it actually does have dominant market share in certain regions.  Windows was 77% of desktop in Q4 2020.  IOS is 61% of mobile in the US, and where I live it is around 9-10/10 kids using iOS products, and reasons they won’t use Android is because it makes their friends iMessage bubbles green. Seriously, that is what kids have told me.  And that not having Apple means you are poor, and no kids want to be seen as poor.  Apple did well on their lock-in to keep iMessage Apple only.  

You are all over the place with your stats and comparing Apple to oranges.

In the US the OS marketshare are 

30% Windows
30% iOS
21% Android
14% MacOS
3.5% Chrome
1.5% other

Worldwide it's

40% Android
32% Windows
16% iOS
7% MacOS
1% Linux
2% other

But with just desktop OS Worldwide 

87% Windows
9.5% MacOS
2.5% Linux
.5% Chrome

with just mobile OS worldwide

72% Android
27% iOS
1% everyone else

Desktop OS US

60% Windows
28% MacOS
7% chrome
2.5% Linux
2.5% other


Mobile OS marketshare US

60% iOS
40% Android

The problem with the mobile OS marketshare stat in the US is that the numbers uses quarterly sales and it can changes rapidly from quarter to quarter. For now iOS is ahead by 20% because of the recent release of the new iPhones and iPads. But when Samsung releases their new phones, it can easily swing 5% to 8% in Android favor and it'll be  53% iOS and 47% Android. Then back again with the next cycle. It's only been since the last quarter of 2020 that iOS over took Android. Right now, I doubt very much that there are more iOS users than Android users in the US. But that can  change if Apple can keep their 60% marketshare for a few more quarters.

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/

eimoaotl said:

There is a lot of vitriol on here against Epic.  I personally think that iOS has become like Windows and Mac, where it is a general operating system and that Apple should no longer be allowed to determine what I can and cannot do with the operating system.  My phone and my iPad are not like my gaming console - I use my iOS devices for basically everything, I use my xbox just for gaming and streaming shows.  I don’t think iOS and gaming consoles are equivalent.  But I do think iOS and windows are equivalent as they are both operating systems that enable me to do “limitless” things depending on software and how much limitation Microsoft and Apple actually put on them.  Same goes for the Mac my wife uses. Can you imagine how angry people would be if Windows mandated that everything now had to go through the Windows store and through their payment system?

It is actually the X-Box OS that has become more like Windows. Originally the X-Box One OS was built on top of Windows 8 core, but with the latest update, it now runs on a special version of Windows 10. The limit to an X-Box running a full version of Windows is not hardware but software. There is no doubt that an X-Box One can run a full version of Windows 10 and turn an X-Box into a PC, if Microsoft wanted to. But MS has no interest in making their X-Box game console also a PC. MS still make a lot of money on PC sales that has Windows installed.  An X-Box One can be a much more capable computer, than an iPad or iPhone, if it weren't for the software limitations MS put on its X-Box OS. 


https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-xbox-one-whats-windows-got-to-do-with-it/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/13/15789520/microsoft-xbox-one-x-windows-10-sony-ps4-pro-console-race

MS actually went the other way. The Windows 10 update for a PC, will run X-Box native games. With Windows 10, MS turned a PC into an X-Box. (At least when running games downloaded from the Microsoft Store.)

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-play-xbox-one-games-on-your-windows-10-pc/

So think about it. Why should Apple turn an iPad into a Mac, when Apple rather sell more Macs?  Better yet, have consumers own both.  

omasou said:

If these quotes are even remotely correct. How in the world is this guy a CEO of any company?

So consoles hardware is sold at a loss therefore they deserve a 30% commission rate but Apple makes a profit selling hardware so they do not? Really? Do you seriously think someone who has gone to college, law school and had the experience to become a judge is stupid enough to buy that line of reasoning? Please!

Here's a more expanded version of what Sweeney actually said in court, about consoles selling at a loss. 

>During his testimony, Sweeney said Epic does pay commissions to other platform owners such as Sony Group Corp's PlayStation and Microsoft Corp's Xbox but explained that those hardware makers use fees from developers to subsidize the further development of their hardware.

Judge Gonzalez Rogers also asked her first direct questions of the trial during Sweeney's testimony, inquiring whether Apple's original iPhones from 2007 and 2008 were sophisticated enough to run Epic's video games. Sweeney said they were not.

“So Apple did have to do something to the iPhone itself in order for it to be sophisticated enough to play your software? How is that any different than consoles?” she asked.

Sweeney responded that the hardware development was similar, but the two devices had different business models.<

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/epic-games-ceo-cites-apples-230408352.html


Just because games console makers adapted the "give away the razor and sell the blades" business model, doesn't mean that they are losing money on the sale of game consoles. It has been proven many times over, that this is a very profitable business model. I'm willing to bet that a game console in it's lifetime, generate much, much more profit for the makers (from the sales of games), than an iPhone in its lifetime, generate for Apple, from the sale of apps. 

sdw2001 said:

Important to note it doesn’t affect existing users. I am watching YouTube TV on my Roku TV right now. Hopefully by the time updates are needed it will be fine.  Of course that prevents any new Roku device owners from accessing YouTube TV.  I access it directly on a Roku-enabled TV in the living room. For my man cave room, I use an Apple TV 4K for everything (the family TV is connected to an ATV4 (HD).  

As for the dispute, who knows.  Probably fault on both sides, though Google is a corrupt behemoth so I naturally side with their opponent.  

But it might come December. That's when the current license Roku has with Google, expires. Unless some new agreement is made. Which I assume will happen. Otherwise, there will be too much money left on the table, by both parties. 

It appears that Roku makes most of their revenue through ad placements in their devices and selling users data to third parties for ads purpose. Over twice as much, than from sales of their hardware. My guess is that this dispute is over ad revenue with the non premium YouTube TV. Maybe Google wants to pay the same as before and Roku wants a bigger share or even a share. Google might be supplying the ads on their video stream but Roku is supplying the users data for targeted ads. 

 Roku also appear to charge a 20% commission with app purchases and in-app payments for subscriptions, but YouTube TV is a free app and have ads for the users that are not paying for a premium subscription with no ads. And the users don't have to pay for their subscription through Roku, to enjoy their YouTube TV Premium with a free app on a Roku.   

https://blog.mywallst.com/how-does-roku-make-money/ ;