most musicians I know own a macBook, not because it's cheaper than the pro, but because it is smaller.
and I still find the size issue because the MBP is, in overall cubic volume, not substantially larger than the MB.
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal? \
This is kinda like saying that the new MacBook might disappoint the small group of users that want to use it to slice bread with or are going to be disappointed that it won't come in brown.
The MacBook is an entry level laptop with the biggest rumour for it this year centring around the possibility that the price point might start below a thousand dollars. Anyone who thinks the designers should base some of their design choices around the tiny group that want to use it as a portable video editing platform are just stupid.
Sure it will edit video and sure you can use iMovie on it for your home movies, but it's never going to be a pro video editing tool and it's stupid to think that it is. I work in an all mac environment where huge amounts of movie making goes on and the majority of the cameras are USB nowadays or use DVD's to record onto. The majority of movie making is done on iMacs.
Seriously guys look closely at these cases and the only possibility for battery placement. It seems obvious that these machines are going to have one big ass battery. Either that or they are going to new technology with respect to energy storage.
Yes, it does look like battery doesn't it?
Originally I thought perhaps the front half of the machine significantly tapered off to give a very thin front edge - but the side shots show that's wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley
I can understand going only with a FW800 port (and possibly including a FW400 adapter)on the MBP, but why on earth would they drop FireWire completely from the MacBook?
Another possibility - perhaps the rumoured super-low-priced Macbook doesn't have firewire, but the standard price MacBook does? I was already wondering, if Apple has made one extra low priced, what they would cut away to make it PERFECT for some people and functional for everyone, but encourage certain users to buy a better machine.
and I still find the size issue because the MBP is, in overall cubic volume, not substantially larger than the MB.
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal? \
Actually, the 15" MacBook Pro is only 0.4 lbs. heavier than the MacBook.
In addition, the MacBook is 0.08" thicker than the MacBook Pro and thanks to the MacBook Pro's weight distribution over a larger area, it actually feels lighter than the smaller, denser MacBook.
Originally I thought perhaps the front half of the machine significantly tapered off to give a very thin front edge - but the side shots show that's wrong.
While the tapering on the new MacBook and MacBook Pro isn't going to be on the level of the MacBook Air, there will definitely be tapering. That's why they moved the MacBook Pro's slot-loading SuperDrive to the right side and all the ports to the left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander
Another possibility - perhaps the rumoured super-low-priced Macbook doesn't have firewire, but the standard price MacBook does? I was already wondering, if Apple has made one extra low priced, what they would cut away to make it PERFECT for some people and functional for everyone, but encourage certain users to buy a better machine.
I don't believe Apple has ever released a neutered version of any given laptop model. All MacBooks are identical, all Air's are identical, all MacBook Pros are identical. The aluminum PowerBooks and plastic iBooks were the same.
Mini-DVI makes the Mac look bad in a professional context. You need a special adapter to connect to projector and PC users just plug right in. As for Firewire, it was a nice way to connect a Time Machine disk, but USB will do.
While the tapering on the new MacBook and MacBook Pro isn't going to be on the level of the MacBook Air, there will definitely be tapering.
Thanks
Quote:
I don't believe Apple has ever released a neutered version of any given laptop model. All MacBooks are identical, all Air's are identical, all MacBook Pros are identical. The aluminum PowerBooks and plastic iBooks were the same.
True. Then again we don't know the full breadth of what they're releasing Tuesday (or at least, I don't think we do). The 12 price-points instead of 8 is interesting.
iMacs and iBooks were software-disabled from offering a 2nd screen as an extended desktop... I assume to encourage sales of the better machines.
Mini-DVI makes the Mac look bad in a professional context. You need a special adapter to connect to projector and PC users just plug right in. As for Firewire, it was a nice way to connect a Time Machine disk, but USB will do.
Who's going to care or notice? Many places, sadly, still use VGA, thus you have to use an adaptor anyway. Many PC laptops only have VGA connections and of course, display sharing and mirroring isn't nearly as smooth in Windows as it is in Mac OS X.
I don't believe Apple has ever released a neutered version of any given laptop model. All MacBooks are identical, all Air's are identical, all MacBook Pros are identical. The aluminum PowerBooks and plastic iBooks were the same.
WRONG, Kimosabe! The 15" MacBook pro has two USB 2 ports, and the 17" has three.
Firewire 800 is compatible with Firewire 400, so I don't know what the big deal is, it is just a different connector. Personally, Apple should have just gone with Firewire 800 and dropped the Firewire 400 port a long time ago. If they ultimately come out with a faster version of Firewire, maybe they can still use the same Firewire 800 port and use the same concept that USB does. Same connector, just various speed depending on the device that is connected to it.
Aside from the speed and different connector, FW 800 can also support looping and redundant connections. FW 400 cannot.
Firewire 3200 uses the same connector as Firewire 800. So hopefully, that Firewire port on the MacBook Pro is FW 3200.
as I told you: I work with different musicians every day of the week, so I think I might have a good idea of what they use, because it is such a diverse group I meet (DJ's to metal, jazz to hip hop, etc) it could be considered a suitable a poll-group.
in my experience MOST musicians have the macBook, not the pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook
and I still find the size issue because the MBP is, in overall cubic volume, not substantially larger than the MB.
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal? \
yes it will, because it is not about weight or cubic volume, it's about two-dimensional space. how big it LOOKS when unfolded. never mind thin-ness, curves or weight.
also on stage you'd want it to be inconspicuous (black and small) and those 2 extra inches matter a lot.. they matter more that the added extra empty space on the side of the macBook by not adding FW.
and on a cramped stage or DJ table, 13" is way easier to fit in without it extending over the edges of the table/piano/whatever.
and then the laptop is the one thing that you wouldn't throw in the back of the truck with the rest of the gear, it's the thing you carry with you 24/7 next to your toothbrush, a family pack of condoms and some clean underwear. also a 15" wouldn't fit in a standard tool case (or my backpack).
Firewire. There is still a possibility of 1394c: FW800 on CAT-5 cable (sharing the RJ45 with Ethernet).
Since a lot of people are connected wirelessly to Internet, the Ethernet port is less required.
Still, implementing 1394c on the RJ45 port would allow users than need fast networking to have GbE and people would need faster data transfers to have FW800.
That is absolutely brain dead. You aren't seeing wired gigabit ethernet going anywhere.
Dropping Firewire means no target disk. This was useful since the hard drive can't be removed easily...
As we've seen with the MBA, the use of FW is an artificial limitation that can be easily rectified. There is no reason that Apple cant make WiFi, USB or Ethernet the way of accessing a Mac via Target Disk Mode.
Quote:
Two USB 2.0 ports: Unacceptably anemic. Doubly so without Firewire.
It does seem that way, especially id you are removing a FW-400 port, but I wonder if Apple did extensive testing to see how many USB ports people actually use on average. There is also the odd rectangle slot ion the port side (no pun intended) that doesn't conform to the typical rounded port hole for an EC/34 slot. Perhaps Apple will be making a bunch of propriety cards that will offer additional USB, FW400, FW800, HSUPA, CDMA2000, SD and CD card readers for those so inclided to add such functionality, without having to auto-include a bunch of gaudy ports that will rarely get utilized.
Quote:
They went with MiniDVI instead of HDMI? HDMI is thin and carries the same DVI signal over it so you can still use a monitor with a dongle.
I think HDMI is a bad choice over DisplayPort, but it's certainly better than using the bulky DL-DVI or even the Mini-DVI.
I don't think they wanted to do that. I think the problem was that going to 800MHz caused some problems for RFI at the time, I think it's a problem that has been resolved. What Firewire did was add a second 400MHz channel, which pretty much means a new connector. USB didn't have to go that fast for its update.
Can someone please explain how a post by "bwik" in Reply 43 (that's me) came to be edited by JeffDM? It says it right there on the post. WTF? And where is my original post.
I've been thinking of ways apple could potentially make a dock for the MBP... obviously they wont slap a port on the bottom like IBM does so I believe they might go for dock where you place the MBP on top and connect a big fat cable in the side.
Could this be the use of that "unknown" port?
This is what the dock is going to look like. It's the reason why all of the ports are on the left and the optical drive is on the right. Wonder if the mystery port on the bottom relates to this?
and I still find the size issue because the MBP is, in overall cubic volume, not substantially larger than the MB.
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal? \
You're forgetting lots of musicians that play electronics, or sound designers, or "Field recordists", or just people that use the computer for recording, mixing or mastering sound in mobile ways, be them professionals or amateurs, that did their work up until now in macbooks, because it's small, can be carried anywhere, cheaper...
They could connect their audio interfaces and HD drives and work everywhere, trust me the macbook pro is much bigger and hard to handle in some situations...
Surely, there is a certain freedom to having wireless standards but the structure of wired connectivity will probably reign king for many a year to come.
This is what the dock is going to look like. It's the reason why all of the ports are on the left and the optical drive is on the right. Wonder if the mystery port on the bottom relates to this?
Hopefully Apple will either produce a version of the dock without the monitor, or license the dock connector to third parties so people can buy a dock without that built-in monitor.
Can someone please explain how a post by "bwik" in Reply 43 (that's me) came to be edited by JeffDM? It says it right there on the post. WTF? And where is my original post.
JeffDM is a Global Moderator. If there is was something written that was deemed a personal attack or something offensive it was probably edited. I wouldn't read too much into it as JeffDM's posts are often very even handed and fair, so don't take it as a personal attack against you.
Comments
most musicians I know own a macBook, not because it's cheaper than the pro, but because it is smaller.
and I still find the size issue
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal?
This is kinda like saying that the new MacBook might disappoint the small group of users that want to use it to slice bread with or are going to be disappointed that it won't come in brown.
The MacBook is an entry level laptop with the biggest rumour for it this year centring around the possibility that the price point might start below a thousand dollars. Anyone who thinks the designers should base some of their design choices around the tiny group that want to use it as a portable video editing platform are just stupid.
Sure it will edit video and sure you can use iMovie on it for your home movies, but it's never going to be a pro video editing tool and it's stupid to think that it is. I work in an all mac environment where huge amounts of movie making goes on and the majority of the cameras are USB nowadays or use DVD's to record onto. The majority of movie making is done on iMacs.
Agreed.
Seriously guys look closely at these cases and the only possibility for battery placement. It seems obvious that these machines are going to have one big ass battery. Either that or they are going to new technology with respect to energy storage.
Yes, it does look like battery doesn't it?
Originally I thought perhaps the front half of the machine significantly tapered off to give a very thin front edge - but the side shots show that's wrong.
I can understand going only with a FW800 port (and possibly including a FW400 adapter)on the MBP, but why on earth would they drop FireWire completely from the MacBook?
Another possibility - perhaps the rumoured super-low-priced Macbook doesn't have firewire, but the standard price MacBook does? I was already wondering, if Apple has made one extra low priced, what they would cut away to make it PERFECT for some people and functional for everyone, but encourage certain users to buy a better machine.
and I still find the size issue
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal?
Actually, the 15" MacBook Pro is only 0.4 lbs. heavier than the MacBook.
In addition, the MacBook is 0.08" thicker than the MacBook Pro and thanks to the MacBook Pro's weight distribution over a larger area, it actually feels lighter than the smaller, denser MacBook.
Yes, it does look like battery doesn't it?
Originally I thought perhaps the front half of the machine significantly tapered off to give a very thin front edge - but the side shots show that's wrong.
You were right the first time:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...real_deal.html
While the tapering on the new MacBook and MacBook Pro isn't going to be on the level of the MacBook Air, there will definitely be tapering. That's why they moved the MacBook Pro's slot-loading SuperDrive to the right side and all the ports to the left.
Another possibility - perhaps the rumoured super-low-priced Macbook doesn't have firewire, but the standard price MacBook does? I was already wondering, if Apple has made one extra low priced, what they would cut away to make it PERFECT for some people and functional for everyone, but encourage certain users to buy a better machine.
I don't believe Apple has ever released a neutered version of any given laptop model. All MacBooks are identical, all Air's are identical, all MacBook Pros are identical. The aluminum PowerBooks and plastic iBooks were the same.
While the tapering on the new MacBook and MacBook Pro isn't going to be on the level of the MacBook Air, there will definitely be tapering.
Thanks
I don't believe Apple has ever released a neutered version of any given laptop model. All MacBooks are identical, all Air's are identical, all MacBook Pros are identical. The aluminum PowerBooks and plastic iBooks were the same.
True. Then again we don't know the full breadth of what they're releasing Tuesday (or at least, I don't think we do). The 12 price-points instead of 8 is interesting.
iMacs and iBooks were software-disabled from offering a 2nd screen as an extended desktop... I assume to encourage sales of the better machines.
Mini-DVI makes the Mac look bad in a professional context. You need a special adapter to connect to projector and PC users just plug right in. As for Firewire, it was a nice way to connect a Time Machine disk, but USB will do.
Who's going to care or notice?
I don't believe Apple has ever released a neutered version of any given laptop model. All MacBooks are identical, all Air's are identical, all MacBook Pros are identical. The aluminum PowerBooks and plastic iBooks were the same.
WRONG, Kimosabe! The 15" MacBook pro has two USB 2 ports, and the 17" has three.
Firewire 800 is compatible with Firewire 400, so I don't know what the big deal is, it is just a different connector. Personally, Apple should have just gone with Firewire 800 and dropped the Firewire 400 port a long time ago. If they ultimately come out with a faster version of Firewire, maybe they can still use the same Firewire 800 port and use the same concept that USB does. Same connector, just various speed depending on the device that is connected to it.
Aside from the speed and different connector, FW 800 can also support looping and redundant connections. FW 400 cannot.
Firewire 3200 uses the same connector as Firewire 800. So hopefully, that Firewire port on the MacBook Pro is FW 3200.
Yes, and most musicians use the MBP.
and this is based upon what?
as I told you: I work with different musicians every day of the week, so I think I might have a good idea of what they use, because it is such a diverse group I meet (DJ's to metal, jazz to hip hop, etc) it could be considered a suitable a poll-group.
in my experience MOST musicians have the macBook, not the pro.
and I still find the size issue
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal?
yes it will, because it is not about weight or cubic volume, it's about two-dimensional space. how big it LOOKS when unfolded. never mind thin-ness, curves or weight.
also on stage you'd want it to be inconspicuous (black and small) and those 2 extra inches matter a lot.. they matter more that the added extra empty space on the side of the macBook by not adding FW.
and on a cramped stage or DJ table, 13" is way easier to fit in without it extending over the edges of the table/piano/whatever.
and then the laptop is the one thing that you wouldn't throw in the back of the truck with the rest of the gear, it's the thing you carry with you 24/7 next to your toothbrush, a family pack of condoms and some clean underwear. also a 15" wouldn't fit in a standard tool case (or my backpack).
IMO, mysterious port = Mini Displayport.
Firewire. There is still a possibility of 1394c: FW800 on CAT-5 cable (sharing the RJ45 with Ethernet).
Since a lot of people are connected wirelessly to Internet, the Ethernet port is less required.
Still, implementing 1394c on the RJ45 port would allow users than need fast networking to have GbE and people would need faster data transfers to have FW800.
That is absolutely brain dead. You aren't seeing wired gigabit ethernet going anywhere.
I'm puzzled by some of Apple's choices for ports:
Dropping Firewire means no target disk. This was useful since the hard drive can't be removed easily...
As we've seen with the MBA, the use of FW is an artificial limitation that can be easily rectified. There is no reason that Apple cant make WiFi, USB or Ethernet the way of accessing a Mac via Target Disk Mode.
Two USB 2.0 ports: Unacceptably anemic. Doubly so without Firewire.
It does seem that way, especially id you are removing a FW-400 port, but I wonder if Apple did extensive testing to see how many USB ports people actually use on average. There is also the odd rectangle slot ion the port side (no pun intended) that doesn't conform to the typical rounded port hole for an EC/34 slot. Perhaps Apple will be making a bunch of propriety cards that will offer additional USB, FW400, FW800, HSUPA, CDMA2000, SD and CD card readers for those so inclided to add such functionality, without having to auto-include a bunch of gaudy ports that will rarely get utilized.
They went with MiniDVI instead of HDMI? HDMI is thin and carries the same DVI signal over it so you can still use a monitor with a dongle.
I think HDMI is a bad choice over DisplayPort, but it's certainly better than using the bulky DL-DVI or even the Mini-DVI.
I don't think they wanted to do that. I think the problem was that going to 800MHz caused some problems for RFI at the time, I think it's a problem that has been resolved. What Firewire did was add a second 400MHz channel, which pretty much means a new connector. USB didn't have to go that fast for its update.
Can someone please explain how a post by "bwik" in Reply 43 (that's me) came to be edited by JeffDM? It says it right there on the post. WTF? And where is my original post.
I've been thinking of ways apple could potentially make a dock for the MBP... obviously they wont slap a port on the bottom like IBM does so I believe they might go for dock where you place the MBP on top and connect a big fat cable in the side.
Could this be the use of that "unknown" port?
This is what the dock is going to look like. It's the reason why all of the ports are on the left and the optical drive is on the right. Wonder if the mystery port on the bottom relates to this?
http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/01/...notebook.dock/
and I still find the size issue
Seriously, if you are a pro musician and can carry around hundreds of pounds of equipment, an extra 1.5x1 inches and .7lbs will REALLY break the deal?
You're forgetting lots of musicians that play electronics, or sound designers, or "Field recordists", or just people that use the computer for recording, mixing or mastering sound in mobile ways, be them professionals or amateurs, that did their work up until now in macbooks, because it's small, can be carried anywhere, cheaper...
They could connect their audio interfaces and HD drives and work everywhere, trust me the macbook pro is much bigger and hard to handle in some situations...
That is absolutely brain dead. You aren't seeing wired gigabit ethernet going anywhere.
To back you your claim, they are working on getting 1000BASE-T to 1000BASE-T, or go from 1Gbps to 10Gbps.Surely, there is a certain freedom to having wireless standards but the structure of wired connectivity will probably reign king for many a year to come.
This is what the dock is going to look like. It's the reason why all of the ports are on the left and the optical drive is on the right. Wonder if the mystery port on the bottom relates to this?
http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/01/...notebook.dock/
Hopefully Apple will either produce a version of the dock without the monitor, or license the dock connector to third parties so people can buy a dock without that built-in monitor.
Can someone please explain how a post by "bwik" in Reply 43 (that's me) came to be edited by JeffDM? It says it right there on the post. WTF? And where is my original post.
JeffDM is a Global Moderator. If there is was something written that was deemed a personal attack or something offensive it was probably edited. I wouldn't read too much into it as JeffDM's posts are often very even handed and fair, so don't take it as a personal attack against you.