Uninformed consumers also refuse to buy the Kindle based on its grayscale display, without knowing the benefits of E-ink.
Meh, I think the "benefits" of E-ink are severely overblown. I've borrowed a kindle from a friend soon after they first came out to see if it was a device I would be interested in owning. I found the lack of a backlight more of a PITA than a benefit. In the situations where and when I commute there often isn't enough ambient light and I was straining more to see the kindle screen. I didn't think the contrast of the display was dramatically superior than LCD, and I think Apple nailed the whole battery life thing. Much like criticism of the iPhone, I don't see a big deal of plugging in a phone at night to charge - mainly because I don't plug it in, but set it into a dock instead of just laying it down on a table. Same will apply to the iPad.
E-ink is interesting, but in the end the "problems" it solves are pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's not compelling enough to justify on it's own, and the kindle is going to get steamrolled by the iPad. Not just because of the screen (being a one trick pony because of the screen doesn't help the kindle).
No, you can't. All you can say is that you think it is from your own experience, comparing it to a computer screen, or possibly some phone, whose properties you're not stating. Mine is different. And most people who are saying it have never read a book on a portable LCD screened device made for the purpose. Have you, and if so, which one?
I have used computer monitors, laptops, phones, and PDAs all with LCD displays and having also used e-ink I am saying their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that e-ink is superior for reading.
Have you ever used an e-ink device and I mean properly used one such as reading a full book, not merely trying one out for a short period of time?
Other job postings support Amazon's recently unveiled Software Development Kit plans for Kindle, intended to create accessory applications for the product. Any apps will almost certainly require existing Kindle users to upgrade to new hardware, as the technical constraints of e-ink would greatly limit what kinds of useful apps developers could create.
This is looking through Apple coloured glasses.
Sure, lots of games can't work with e-ink. But many things can. Taking a look through my first few pages of iPhone apps gives an idea of things that might be useful
1) Calendar
2) weather report
3) Train timetable
4) Messages, Skype
5) Chess with Friends (and other similar "still graphics" games like checkers, backgammon, solitaire, sudoku)
6) TV Guide
7) Quota checker (for phone, internet usage)
8) Surf report
9) Around me
10) Now Playing movie guide
11) News One
12) Allrecipes
13) Baby Namer
13) Wikipedia
14) Zenbe lists
etc.
Sure there's a LOT it can't do, but these kind of apps could be of significant benefit to kindle users
Amazon don't have the expertise or experience to make it in to a fully fledged tablet computer. They should leave it as a dedicated reader and make it impossibly thin and light and better than the iPad for ebooks in every way or else quit while they're ahead and go back to just selling digital downloads for other platforms.
Why is Amazon looking to try and compete with the mighty Apple and try and replicate the functionality of the iPad. Surely this is a battle that it is never going to win.
I am a complete Apple Fanboy yet I am finding it hard to justify buying the iPad. Do I want one? - hell yeah - do I need one? - hmmm. I have an iPod touch and for me the thing that excited me most about a tablet was books. However I consider the iPad expensive and not a true e-reader without an e-ink screen so not compelling on this front. I am not sure that getting an iPad is the right thing to do. However given the cost of the Kindle being not sufficiently different I would probable still get the iPad for it's extra functionality.
Here is the crux of the issue - if the Kindle concentrated just on being an e-reader and had a much more reasonable price point then for me it would be a no-brainer - I would get the Kindle. (And as I say I am a complete Apple Fanboy)
Amazon needs to concentrate on competing where it can win - multifunction tablet device - not a chance in hell - quality cheap e-reader - most definitely.
I fear that it is going to take the wrong path and in doing so make itself obsolete.
There is no reason for Kindle's demise. Reduce the cost, offer touch screen and saving documents in pdf as long has been suggested. You can also develop a higher priced Kindle offering some of the same technology as the iPad. The lower priced Kindle will suit readers who don't need all of the extras and read mostly novels and text only books. The advanced Kindle can offer interactive and highly illustrated type books.
If Kindle allows me to buy books that work on multiple platforms, to avoid the "Apple Lock-in", that could work very well. Read my books on a Kindle, Windows, Mac, iPad, iPhone, Gpad etc.
I guess the providers that work out an innovative new way of marketing books will ultimately live on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTMP
There is no reason (that I know of) to believe that you wont be able to read Apple ebooks on any machine authorized to your iTunes account.
Yes I figure the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_daze
Perhaps there could be a Netflix model for renting, which could solve the rental time issue. Maybe you pay full price up-front, but get credits back to the elibrary when you return a book. I think there are creative ways of distributing that have not yet been explored that could be successful.
I don't think Netflix physical movie rental deal works for eBooks - mainly because you could theoretically pay to have 1 book at a time, but return a book you're half way through, borrow another, return it and go back to the first book...
The credits-for-returned-book seems a good idea.
At the moment, many students buy books second hand. Or sell their new book when they're done. The current eBook model doesn't fit this - pay the full price and that's it. It needs to be cheaper. Or allow you to "sell it back to Amazon" for half price (similar to what you suggest).
It's also possible that an eBook could be better because it could be updated to the latest version of the book. Text books can be updated yearly. There are also books that aren't viable because their subject changes so quickly... they might now have an outlet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Authors get about 25% of the price of a book. If Amazon ends up cutting the price down to make a profit, everyone will get reduced.
This is presuming that the price cuts for eBooks doesn't come purely from the printing and distribution proportion of costs, which are largely removed in a eBook model.
There is an assumption here that because Amazon is looking for people with knowledge of LCD they want to directly compete with the iPad. This strikes me as very unlikely. The Barnes & Noble nook ebook reader has an LCD screen below its main e-ink display for menus.I think it is more likely that Amazon are looking to copy the nook and add an additional small LCD display to the Kindle probably replacing the keyboard. Amazon is adding apps, but the Kindle's primary function is likely to remain an ebook reader and its main display e-ink or similar.
Sure, lots of games can't work with e-ink. But many things can. Taking a look through my first few pages of iPhone apps gives an idea of things that might be useful
1) Calendar
...
etc.
Sure there's a LOT it can't do, but these kind of apps could be of significant benefit to kindle users
But the problem with eInk is every input is going to be followed by at least a second before anything interesting can happen on screen. It's going to be hard to create a user interface that isn't perceived as sluggish and unresponsive.
But the problem with eInk is every input is going to be followed by at least a second before anything interesting can happen on screen. It's going to be hard to create a user interface that isn't perceived as sluggish and unresponsive.
C.
Also if you are doing apps that requires refreshing the screen much more frequently than flipping books, you will see the battery take a huge hit. Even a few refresh in one minute could mean cutting battery life by more than 4/5.
Aiming for the moon doesn't actually allow for hitting a star.
Kindle is a book reader appliance. It is supposed to be neither game console nor full functional computer.
e-Ink is healthier choice for a book reader in the long run. LED/backlit LCDs will ruin our eyes in the final end.
Make it colorful. Add dynamic content; it may not be sufficiently motion-capable to display video, but a slideshow looks splendidly on the device. Remove stupid buttons and add multitouch screen. Make it look like perfected page of a book. Offer premium content adapted to device capabilities.
Price it as a book reader and not as multi-purpose mobile computer with productivity capabilities.
I am even reading an LCD screen as I type this. The pain really isn't so bad.
To date - my eyeballs have not exploded.
e-Ink is okay for reading novels in serial order. Lousy for textbooks and reference because navigation is supertanker slow. And of course it is useless for picture books and comics.
So yeah, instead of blaming Apple for entering the market, you should be thanking them for breaking Amazon's monopoly, and bringing real market economy to the eBook market.
Every time I pay several bucks extra for an eBook, I will fall to my knees and thank iSteve.
Well if you are so into facts show some that I am wrong. By the way one fact is at least their execs didn't have to talk about lowering the price of their product even before it was released.
why should I prove you wrong, we all know you make this sh1t up, waste of my time. It like someone saying 'prove that pigs can not fly' we all know pigs can not fly, so why prove such a statement.
Well if you are so into facts show some that I am wrong. By the way one fact is at least their execs didn't have to talk about lowering the price of their product even before it was released.
First of all, they have lowered the price. And it's ant Apple talking about lowering their price but unnamed "executives" from rumor sources.
When Amazon is honest about sales, then you can speak.
That isn't called blinking or being scared its called smart business. So many on this forum say everyone follows Apple, or Apple leads and everyone follows which is total BS. Apple in decades has only created one product that leads the market and thats the iPod. Even with the iPhone being popular it still doesn't lead and it certainly hasn't put anyone out of business.
You can make up anything you want to. There are two or three people here who might believe you.
I have used computer monitors, laptops, phones, and PDAs all with LCD displays and having also used e-ink I am saying their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that e-ink is superior for reading.
Have you ever used an e-ink device and I mean properly used one such as reading a full book, not merely trying one out for a short period of time?
Yes, as I said, I have. I see no value in it other than for outside reading. I firmly believe that any so called advantages are psychological in nature. Too many people have their devices turned up too high, and so they're simply too bright. The only reason why e-ink MIGHT seem better is because it's much dimmer. In good light, that works. but in dimmer light, it doesn't. Half of one half of another. If people adjusted their displays properly, there wouldn't be a problem.
Sure, lots of games can't work with e-ink. But many things can. Taking a look through my first few pages of iPhone apps gives an idea of things that might be useful
1) Calendar
2) weather report
3) Train timetable
4) Messages, Skype
5) Chess with Friends (and other similar "still graphics" games like checkers, backgammon, solitaire, sudoku)
6) TV Guide
7) Quota checker (for phone, internet usage)
8) Surf report
9) Around me
10) Now Playing movie guide
11) News One
12) Allrecipes
13) Baby Namer
13) Wikipedia
14) Zenbe lists
etc.
Sure there's a LOT it can't do, but these kind of apps could be of significant benefit to kindle users
I don't see how any of that would be an advantage. There's not a single thing there that the iPad wouldn't be able to do better.
Comments
Uninformed consumers also refuse to buy the Kindle based on its grayscale display, without knowing the benefits of E-ink.
Meh, I think the "benefits" of E-ink are severely overblown. I've borrowed a kindle from a friend soon after they first came out to see if it was a device I would be interested in owning. I found the lack of a backlight more of a PITA than a benefit. In the situations where and when I commute there often isn't enough ambient light and I was straining more to see the kindle screen. I didn't think the contrast of the display was dramatically superior than LCD, and I think Apple nailed the whole battery life thing. Much like criticism of the iPhone, I don't see a big deal of plugging in a phone at night to charge - mainly because I don't plug it in, but set it into a dock instead of just laying it down on a table. Same will apply to the iPad.
E-ink is interesting, but in the end the "problems" it solves are pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's not compelling enough to justify on it's own, and the kindle is going to get steamrolled by the iPad. Not just because of the screen (being a one trick pony because of the screen doesn't help the kindle).
That's a serious oversupply of stupidity. They don't have a chance.
As I have said before, all they need to do is call Palm ASAP. Rubenstein will take the call.
As I have said before, all they need to do is call Palm ASAP. Rubenstein will take the call.
Heh...you think? I think Rubenstein would sing show tunes while dancing naked in Times Square to get that call.
Fortunately I don't recall what Rubenstein looks like so I have no disturbing imagery to try to forget now.
No, you can't. All you can say is that you think it is from your own experience, comparing it to a computer screen, or possibly some phone, whose properties you're not stating. Mine is different. And most people who are saying it have never read a book on a portable LCD screened device made for the purpose. Have you, and if so, which one?
I have used computer monitors, laptops, phones, and PDAs all with LCD displays and having also used e-ink I am saying their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that e-ink is superior for reading.
Have you ever used an e-ink device and I mean properly used one such as reading a full book, not merely trying one out for a short period of time?
Other job postings support Amazon's recently unveiled Software Development Kit plans for Kindle, intended to create accessory applications for the product. Any apps will almost certainly require existing Kindle users to upgrade to new hardware, as the technical constraints of e-ink would greatly limit what kinds of useful apps developers could create.
This is looking through Apple coloured glasses.
Sure, lots of games can't work with e-ink. But many things can. Taking a look through my first few pages of iPhone apps gives an idea of things that might be useful
1) Calendar
2) weather report
3) Train timetable
4) Messages, Skype
5) Chess with Friends (and other similar "still graphics" games like checkers, backgammon, solitaire, sudoku)
6) TV Guide
7) Quota checker (for phone, internet usage)
8) Surf report
9) Around me
10) Now Playing movie guide
11) News One
12) Allrecipes
13) Baby Namer
13) Wikipedia
14) Zenbe lists
etc.
Sure there's a LOT it can't do, but these kind of apps could be of significant benefit to kindle users
I am a complete Apple Fanboy yet I am finding it hard to justify buying the iPad. Do I want one? - hell yeah - do I need one? - hmmm. I have an iPod touch and for me the thing that excited me most about a tablet was books. However I consider the iPad expensive and not a true e-reader without an e-ink screen so not compelling on this front. I am not sure that getting an iPad is the right thing to do. However given the cost of the Kindle being not sufficiently different I would probable still get the iPad for it's extra functionality.
Here is the crux of the issue - if the Kindle concentrated just on being an e-reader and had a much more reasonable price point then for me it would be a no-brainer - I would get the Kindle. (And as I say I am a complete Apple Fanboy)
Amazon needs to concentrate on competing where it can win - multifunction tablet device - not a chance in hell - quality cheap e-reader - most definitely.
I fear that it is going to take the wrong path and in doing so make itself obsolete.
There is no reason for Kindle's demise. Reduce the cost, offer touch screen and saving documents in pdf as long has been suggested. You can also develop a higher priced Kindle offering some of the same technology as the iPad. The lower priced Kindle will suit readers who don't need all of the extras and read mostly novels and text only books. The advanced Kindle can offer interactive and highly illustrated type books.
If Kindle allows me to buy books that work on multiple platforms, to avoid the "Apple Lock-in", that could work very well. Read my books on a Kindle, Windows, Mac, iPad, iPhone, Gpad etc.
I guess the providers that work out an innovative new way of marketing books will ultimately live on.
There is no reason (that I know of) to believe that you wont be able to read Apple ebooks on any machine authorized to your iTunes account.
Yes I figure the same.
Perhaps there could be a Netflix model for renting, which could solve the rental time issue. Maybe you pay full price up-front, but get credits back to the elibrary when you return a book. I think there are creative ways of distributing that have not yet been explored that could be successful.
I don't think Netflix physical movie rental deal works for eBooks - mainly because you could theoretically pay to have 1 book at a time, but return a book you're half way through, borrow another, return it and go back to the first book...
The credits-for-returned-book seems a good idea.
At the moment, many students buy books second hand. Or sell their new book when they're done. The current eBook model doesn't fit this - pay the full price and that's it. It needs to be cheaper. Or allow you to "sell it back to Amazon" for half price (similar to what you suggest).
It's also possible that an eBook could be better because it could be updated to the latest version of the book. Text books can be updated yearly. There are also books that aren't viable because their subject changes so quickly... they might now have an outlet.
Authors get about 25% of the price of a book. If Amazon ends up cutting the price down to make a profit, everyone will get reduced.
This is presuming that the price cuts for eBooks doesn't come purely from the printing and distribution proportion of costs, which are largely removed in a eBook model.
This is looking through Apple coloured glasses.
Sure, lots of games can't work with e-ink. But many things can. Taking a look through my first few pages of iPhone apps gives an idea of things that might be useful
1) Calendar
...
etc.
Sure there's a LOT it can't do, but these kind of apps could be of significant benefit to kindle users
But the problem with eInk is every input is going to be followed by at least a second before anything interesting can happen on screen. It's going to be hard to create a user interface that isn't perceived as sluggish and unresponsive.
C.
But the problem with eInk is every input is going to be followed by at least a second before anything interesting can happen on screen. It's going to be hard to create a user interface that isn't perceived as sluggish and unresponsive.
C.
Also if you are doing apps that requires refreshing the screen much more frequently than flipping books, you will see the battery take a huge hit. Even a few refresh in one minute could mean cutting battery life by more than 4/5.
Kindle is a book reader appliance. It is supposed to be neither game console nor full functional computer.
e-Ink is healthier choice for a book reader in the long run. LED/backlit LCDs will ruin our eyes in the final end.
Make it colorful. Add dynamic content; it may not be sufficiently motion-capable to display video, but a slideshow looks splendidly on the device. Remove stupid buttons and add multitouch screen. Make it look like perfected page of a book. Offer premium content adapted to device capabilities.
Price it as a book reader and not as multi-purpose mobile computer with productivity capabilities.
I am even reading an LCD screen as I type this. The pain really isn't so bad.
To date - my eyeballs have not exploded.
e-Ink is okay for reading novels in serial order. Lousy for textbooks and reference because navigation is supertanker slow. And of course it is useless for picture books and comics.
This looks promising.
http://panelfly.com/ipad/
C.
So yeah, instead of blaming Apple for entering the market, you should be thanking them for breaking Amazon's monopoly, and bringing real market economy to the eBook market.
Every time I pay several bucks extra for an eBook, I will fall to my knees and thank iSteve.
I SEE THE LIGHT!
e-Ink is healthier choice for a book reader in the long run. LED/backlit LCDs will ruin our eyes in the final end.
Do you have any actual facts to justify that claim?
Seriously. I'd be very interested.
Well if you are so into facts show some that I am wrong. By the way one fact is at least their execs didn't have to talk about lowering the price of their product even before it was released.
why should I prove you wrong, we all know you make this sh1t up, waste of my time. It like someone saying 'prove that pigs can not fly' we all know pigs can not fly, so why prove such a statement.
Well if you are so into facts show some that I am wrong. By the way one fact is at least their execs didn't have to talk about lowering the price of their product even before it was released.
First of all, they have lowered the price. And it's ant Apple talking about lowering their price but unnamed "executives" from rumor sources.
When Amazon is honest about sales, then you can speak.
That isn't called blinking or being scared its called smart business. So many on this forum say everyone follows Apple, or Apple leads and everyone follows which is total BS. Apple in decades has only created one product that leads the market and thats the iPod. Even with the iPhone being popular it still doesn't lead and it certainly hasn't put anyone out of business.
You can make up anything you want to. There are two or three people here who might believe you.
I have used computer monitors, laptops, phones, and PDAs all with LCD displays and having also used e-ink I am saying their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that e-ink is superior for reading.
Have you ever used an e-ink device and I mean properly used one such as reading a full book, not merely trying one out for a short period of time?
Yes, as I said, I have. I see no value in it other than for outside reading. I firmly believe that any so called advantages are psychological in nature. Too many people have their devices turned up too high, and so they're simply too bright. The only reason why e-ink MIGHT seem better is because it's much dimmer. In good light, that works. but in dimmer light, it doesn't. Half of one half of another. If people adjusted their displays properly, there wouldn't be a problem.
This is looking through Apple coloured glasses.
Sure, lots of games can't work with e-ink. But many things can. Taking a look through my first few pages of iPhone apps gives an idea of things that might be useful
1) Calendar
2) weather report
3) Train timetable
4) Messages, Skype
5) Chess with Friends (and other similar "still graphics" games like checkers, backgammon, solitaire, sudoku)
6) TV Guide
7) Quota checker (for phone, internet usage)
8) Surf report
9) Around me
10) Now Playing movie guide
11) News One
12) Allrecipes
13) Baby Namer
13) Wikipedia
14) Zenbe lists
etc.
Sure there's a LOT it can't do, but these kind of apps could be of significant benefit to kindle users
I don't see how any of that would be an advantage. There's not a single thing there that the iPad wouldn't be able to do better.