I suggest using Fan Control or smcFanControl to get it cooling. I got about 20 C cooler by bumping the minimum to 3000. It's not much louder than the stock 1000 RPM.
i'm at the bridgewater commons Apple store right now using the 2.33 ghz mbp and it seems only slightly warm on the bottom and presumably it's been sitting here all day (or maybe they just got it recently?) obviously it's not being pushed hard just sitting here, core duo temp reads 48 C. is this better than the rev A mbps or the same?
You know how it works. every time you go up the scale of performance, power, and heat, increases.
If that were true, then over the years of constantly increasing heat our keyboards would have started melting. The X1700, according to ATI, designed for mobile use, so I think it's safe to assume they kept the heat down. Also "is that the Mobility Radeon X1700 should have the same level of power consumption as its predecessor the Mobility Radeon X1600, thanks to a dramatic improvement in the performance per Watt of the Mobility Radeon X1700." (from the ATI press release...)
I think the real issue was probably Apple wanting to keep the price points on the update the same as it was for the last release, while upgrading memory, HD, etc., which more users will notice in terms of speed increases and storing more U2 songs. (X1700 will be considerably pricier than the year-old 1600) .
In terms of why it's not an upgrade option, maybe the size/shape are tweaked so it may not be so easily interchangeable with the 1600 in the confines of the MBPro? Also, judging by the ATI press, they put a ton of work into optimizing it for Vista, so maybe the improvement for Mactel OSX isn't good enough to justify the extra cash yet.... Just some thoughts...
If that were true, then over the years of constantly increasing heat our keyboards would have started melting. The X1700, according to ATI, designed for mobile use, so I think it's safe to assume they kept the heat down. Also "is that the Mobility Radeon X1700 should have the same level of power consumption as its predecessor the Mobility Radeon X1600, thanks to a dramatic improvement in the performance per Watt of the Mobility Radeon X1700." (from the ATI press release...)
I think the real issue was probably Apple wanting to keep the price points on the update the same as it was for the last release, while upgrading memory, HD, etc., which more users will notice in terms of speed increases and storing more U2 songs. (X1700 will be considerably pricier than the year-old 1600) .
In terms of why it's not an upgrade option, maybe the size/shape are tweaked so it may not be so easily interchangeable with the 1600 in the confines of the MBPro? Also, judging by the ATI press, they put a ton of work into optimizing it for Vista, so maybe the improvement for Mactel OSX isn't good enough to justify the extra cash yet.... Just some thoughts...
But it is true. Laptops have been getting hotter all the time despite newer methods of cooling, and cpu downstepping, etc.
Gpu's have been getting hotter all of the time. Don't you follow this?
Why do you think that graphic cards have been getting fans, which they never used to have. And the heat sinks get larger. Then the fans get even larger. Now some take up two slots of space, because the heatsinks and fans are so large they can't fin into one slot. External power connectors directly to the power supply, water cooling, etc.
Cards for laptops have gone the same route, though not to the same extreme. Why do you think Apple downclocked them?
I don't remember laptops burning your legs ten years ago.
$1399 for the same unit running at 1.83GHZ, though for only $50, it's easy to justify going up to the next unit. I bought the 1.83 when it was $1650 I think (they did automatically refund $100 a week or so later, when it went to $1550), and even then, I thought it was well worth it over the black MacBook.
-similar to the new c2d imacs, apple has included a draft-n wireless card in the new mbps
So I will have an Apple pre-n card, and a Belkin pre-n router. How likely is it that they were made based on the same pre-n spec and will work together at a higher speed that 802.11g?
I did a bit of looking around at what the competition offers today, to see how well Apple did with the hardware (regardless of Apple's far superior OS). Interestingly, I couldn't find a reasonably-sized C2D notebook that offered what the MBP does at a vaguely competitive price! The infamous Mobility Radeon 1600 actually stacks up pretty darned well against other graphics solutions on 15 inch notebooks of reasonable size and weight (there are plenty of 9 lb 17-inchers with much more powerful graphics, of course). I looked at Acer, Alienware, Dell,Gateway, Lenovo, Sony and Voodoo, and here is what I found in 15 inch notebooks...
Processor Apple's tied for the lead (C2D 2.33 is available from several vendors)
RAM Apple's tied for the lead (some others offer 4 GB, but with 3 addressable)
Graphics The only better graphics in a 15" notebook are a (rare) GeForce 7600
This shows up in a Voodoo, and as a build to order option in an Alienware
Acer offers one model with a "7600SE", but a very low-resolution screen.
as does Sony
The Voodoo and Alienware systems are much more expensive than the MBP
and feature "no comment" battery life!
Screen Res. Others offer 1680x1050 in a 15" although only Voodoo couples it with the
GeForce 7600
Hard Drives Everyone's tied, although Apple's standard 120 is bigger than average
Optical Everyone's tied, except that there's one Acer with Blu-ray for a $500 premium
Ports Apple leads - FireWire 800 and Dual-Link DVI are both unique (others offer
more USB ports)
Size/weight Apple seems to have the slimmest and lightest 15" C2D around
Overall The only 15.4" notebook that might be considered technically superior to the
latest MBP is the Voodoo Envy, and it's $3207 for a machine like the $2499
MBP, except with a GeForce 7600 GO and a 1680x1050 (or is it 1920x1200 -
Voodoo's website claims both in different places). The Voodoo also lacks
both Dual Link DVI (it's VGA!!!) and FW800.
Even if $700+ extra for the Voodoo isn't a barrier, AND you're willing to forgo 30 inch displays and fast external hard drives, you still get Windoze, with FREE Viruses, Spyware and Advertising!!!!!!
The MBP 15.4 C2D looks pretty darned good, in both of its configurations - it's technically excellent, and priced competitively...
I did a bit of looking around at what the competition offers today, to see how well Apple did with the hardware (regardless of Apple's far superior OS). Interestingly, I couldn't find a reasonably-sized C2D notebook that offered what the MBP does at a vaguely competitive price! The infamous Mobility Radeon 1600 actually stacks up pretty darned well against other graphics solutions on 15 inch notebooks of reasonable size and weight (there are plenty of 9 lb 17-inchers with much more powerful graphics, of course). I looked at Acer, Alienware, Dell,Gateway, Lenovo, Sony and Voodoo, and here is what I found in 15 inch notebooks...
Processor Apple's tied for the lead (C2D 2.33 is available from several vendors)
RAM Apple's tied for the lead (some others offer 4 GB, but with 3 addressable)
Graphics The only better graphics in a 15" notebook are a (rare) GeForce 7600
This shows up in a Voodoo, and as a build to order option in an Alienware
Acer offers one model with a "7600SE", but a very low-resolution screen.
as does Sony
The Voodoo and Alienware systems are much more expensive than the MBP
and feature "no comment" battery life!
Screen Res. Others offer 1680x1050 in a 15" although only Voodoo couples it with the
GeForce 7600
Hard Drives Everyone's tied, although Apple's standard 120 is bigger than average
Optical Everyone's tied, except that there's one Acer with Blu-ray for a $500 premium
Ports Apple leads - FireWire 800 and Dual-Link DVI are both unique (others offer
more USB ports)
Size/weight Apple seems to have the slimmest and lightest 15" C2D around
Overall The only 15.4" notebook that might be considered technically superior to the
latest MBP is the Voodoo Envy, and it's $3207 for a machine like the $2499
MBP, except with a GeForce 7600 GO and a 1680x1050 (or is it 1920x1200 -
Voodoo's website claims both in different places). The Voodoo also lacks
both Dual Link DVI (it's VGA!!!) and FW800.
Even if $700+ extra for the Voodoo isn't a barrier, AND you're willing to forgo 30 inch displays and fast external hard drives, you still get Windoze, with FREE Viruses, Spyware and Advertising!!!!!!
The MBP 15.4 C2D looks pretty darned good, in both of its configurations - it's technically excellent, and priced competitively...
Great job. As many times as people point out the recent Apple offerings are very bang/buck competitive (or surpass what's out there), people still keep complaining that we're "so far behind everyone else!"
Great job. As many times as people point out the recent Apple offerings are very bang/buck competitive (or surpass what's out there), people still keep complaining that we're "so far behind everyone else!"
There are some problems with these comparisons though.
While what he put up is accurate, Dell often has sales that can bring the price down by anywhere from 20% to 50%. Apple has no plan for this. Even Apple's refurbished machines are priced close to a new machine.
The other problem we have to contend with is the "I build it myself, and it's much cheaper".
They then go on to illustrate a machine built with $20 cases and power supplies, as well as other cheap components, with a couple of good parts thrown in to make their point.
Great job. As many times as people point out the recent Apple offerings are very bang/buck competitive (or surpass what's out there), people still keep complaining that we're "so far behind everyone else!"
But, Apple stuff doesn't look like ca-ca, which the cheap homebuilts tend to. What I like about the recent comparisons (like the one above) is that finally, it's not a total slam dunk when PC makers (and users) say how cheap PC's are compared to Apple stuff.
But, Apple stuff doesn't look like ca-ca, which the cheap homebuilts tend to. What I like about the recent comparisons (like the one above) is that finally, it's not a total slam dunk when PC makers (and users) say how cheap PC's are compared to Apple stuff.
I'm not agreeing that they have a good argument in that I think their machines are great. Just that they do present the argument, and that for them, it is valid.
I'm not agreeing that they have a good argument in that I think their machines are great. Just that they do present the argument, and that for them, it is valid.
I don't disagree with you. But then, some people have an argument for Yugo's, too. For me, I think in the past there was a price difference in some ways. Now, I don't think that should be a consideration, which is cool.
I saw an advertisement page on both Edmonton Futureshop and Best Buy Catalogues this morning (as delivered with my newspaper) for Toshiba's running C2D available in store. The 15"ers, all of them, KILLED Apple on Ram and hard drive space included, and for less.
Granted the video cards were awful, their ports likely more so, the keyboard a peice of crap, and the Windows... well...
Did I mention they looked like Toshibas?
Still, not even PC buyer's going to notice the difference we Macheads do, and that should concern Apple. It wouldn't hurt them to drop the price of the entry MBP's by a few hundred.
Comments
I suggest using Fan Control or smcFanControl to get it cooling. I got about 20 C cooler by bumping the minimum to 3000. It's not much louder than the stock 1000 RPM.
i'm at the bridgewater commons Apple store right now using the 2.33 ghz mbp and it seems only slightly warm on the bottom and presumably it's been sitting here all day (or maybe they just got it recently?) obviously it's not being pushed hard just sitting here, core duo temp reads 48 C. is this better than the rev A mbps or the same?
What games do you plan to play? I have none on my iBook, but would love to get something to pass plane time on my MBP
I plan on playing Titan Quest and Neverwinter Nights II (out soon). Hopefully they will run well on my skimpy 128meg of video ram!
You know how it works. every time you go up the scale of performance, power, and heat, increases.
If that were true, then over the years of constantly increasing heat our keyboards would have started melting. The X1700, according to ATI, designed for mobile use, so I think it's safe to assume they kept the heat down. Also "is that the Mobility Radeon X1700 should have the same level of power consumption as its predecessor the Mobility Radeon X1600, thanks to a dramatic improvement in the performance per Watt of the Mobility Radeon X1700." (from the ATI press release...)
I think the real issue was probably Apple wanting to keep the price points on the update the same as it was for the last release, while upgrading memory, HD, etc., which more users will notice in terms of speed increases and storing more U2 songs. (X1700 will be considerably pricier than the year-old 1600) .
In terms of why it's not an upgrade option, maybe the size/shape are tweaked so it may not be so easily interchangeable with the 1600 in the confines of the MBPro? Also, judging by the ATI press, they put a ton of work into optimizing it for Vista, so maybe the improvement for Mactel OSX isn't good enough to justify the extra cash yet.... Just some thoughts...
o, did you order the 2.16ghz? cause I ordered the 2.33ghz, where the 2gigs are standard anyway...
thats good news for us gamers
Yeah, ordered base model with ram upgrade to 2gb.
-similar to the new c2d imacs, apple has included a draft-n wireless card in the new mbps
Could you explain what you mean?
What games do you plan to play? I have none on my iBook, but would love to get something to pass plane time on my MBP
i'm not sure, prob halo 2 for vista, if I feel like paying, I mean downloading, vista ultimate
also, halo 1 for pc, counterstrike, fear, and call of duty 2
If that were true, then over the years of constantly increasing heat our keyboards would have started melting. The X1700, according to ATI, designed for mobile use, so I think it's safe to assume they kept the heat down. Also "is that the Mobility Radeon X1700 should have the same level of power consumption as its predecessor the Mobility Radeon X1600, thanks to a dramatic improvement in the performance per Watt of the Mobility Radeon X1700." (from the ATI press release...)
I think the real issue was probably Apple wanting to keep the price points on the update the same as it was for the last release, while upgrading memory, HD, etc., which more users will notice in terms of speed increases and storing more U2 songs. (X1700 will be considerably pricier than the year-old 1600) .
In terms of why it's not an upgrade option, maybe the size/shape are tweaked so it may not be so easily interchangeable with the 1600 in the confines of the MBPro? Also, judging by the ATI press, they put a ton of work into optimizing it for Vista, so maybe the improvement for Mactel OSX isn't good enough to justify the extra cash yet.... Just some thoughts...
But it is true. Laptops have been getting hotter all the time despite newer methods of cooling, and cpu downstepping, etc.
Gpu's have been getting hotter all of the time. Don't you follow this?
Why do you think that graphic cards have been getting fans, which they never used to have. And the heat sinks get larger. Then the fans get even larger. Now some take up two slots of space, because the heatsinks and fans are so large they can't fin into one slot. External power connectors directly to the power supply, water cooling, etc.
Cards for laptops have gone the same route, though not to the same extreme. Why do you think Apple downclocked them?
I don't remember laptops burning your legs ten years ago.
refurb 15" 2.0ghz core duos.... 1449...
amazing price.
$1399 for the same unit running at 1.83GHZ, though for only $50, it's easy to justify going up to the next unit. I bought the 1.83 when it was $1650 I think (they did automatically refund $100 a week or so later, when it went to $1550), and even then, I thought it was well worth it over the black MacBook.
From a few posts back:
-similar to the new c2d imacs, apple has included a draft-n wireless card in the new mbps
So I will have an Apple pre-n card, and a Belkin pre-n router. How likely is it that they were made based on the same pre-n spec and will work together at a higher speed that 802.11g?
Processor Apple's tied for the lead (C2D 2.33 is available from several vendors)
RAM Apple's tied for the lead (some others offer 4 GB, but with 3 addressable)
Graphics The only better graphics in a 15" notebook are a (rare) GeForce 7600
This shows up in a Voodoo, and as a build to order option in an Alienware
Acer offers one model with a "7600SE", but a very low-resolution screen.
as does Sony
The Voodoo and Alienware systems are much more expensive than the MBP
and feature "no comment" battery life!
Screen Res. Others offer 1680x1050 in a 15" although only Voodoo couples it with the
GeForce 7600
Hard Drives Everyone's tied, although Apple's standard 120 is bigger than average
Optical Everyone's tied, except that there's one Acer with Blu-ray for a $500 premium
Ports Apple leads - FireWire 800 and Dual-Link DVI are both unique (others offer
more USB ports)
Size/weight Apple seems to have the slimmest and lightest 15" C2D around
Overall The only 15.4" notebook that might be considered technically superior to the
latest MBP is the Voodoo Envy, and it's $3207 for a machine like the $2499
MBP, except with a GeForce 7600 GO and a 1680x1050 (or is it 1920x1200 -
Voodoo's website claims both in different places). The Voodoo also lacks
both Dual Link DVI (it's VGA!!!) and FW800.
Even if $700+ extra for the Voodoo isn't a barrier, AND you're willing to forgo 30 inch displays and fast external hard drives, you still get Windoze, with FREE Viruses, Spyware and Advertising!!!!!!
The MBP 15.4 C2D looks pretty darned good, in both of its configurations - it's technically excellent, and priced competitively...
I did a bit of looking around at what the competition offers today, to see how well Apple did with the hardware (regardless of Apple's far superior OS). Interestingly, I couldn't find a reasonably-sized C2D notebook that offered what the MBP does at a vaguely competitive price! The infamous Mobility Radeon 1600 actually stacks up pretty darned well against other graphics solutions on 15 inch notebooks of reasonable size and weight (there are plenty of 9 lb 17-inchers with much more powerful graphics, of course). I looked at Acer, Alienware, Dell,Gateway, Lenovo, Sony and Voodoo, and here is what I found in 15 inch notebooks...
Processor Apple's tied for the lead (C2D 2.33 is available from several vendors)
RAM Apple's tied for the lead (some others offer 4 GB, but with 3 addressable)
Graphics The only better graphics in a 15" notebook are a (rare) GeForce 7600
This shows up in a Voodoo, and as a build to order option in an Alienware
Acer offers one model with a "7600SE", but a very low-resolution screen.
as does Sony
The Voodoo and Alienware systems are much more expensive than the MBP
and feature "no comment" battery life!
Screen Res. Others offer 1680x1050 in a 15" although only Voodoo couples it with the
GeForce 7600
Hard Drives Everyone's tied, although Apple's standard 120 is bigger than average
Optical Everyone's tied, except that there's one Acer with Blu-ray for a $500 premium
Ports Apple leads - FireWire 800 and Dual-Link DVI are both unique (others offer
more USB ports)
Size/weight Apple seems to have the slimmest and lightest 15" C2D around
Overall The only 15.4" notebook that might be considered technically superior to the
latest MBP is the Voodoo Envy, and it's $3207 for a machine like the $2499
MBP, except with a GeForce 7600 GO and a 1680x1050 (or is it 1920x1200 -
Voodoo's website claims both in different places). The Voodoo also lacks
both Dual Link DVI (it's VGA!!!) and FW800.
Even if $700+ extra for the Voodoo isn't a barrier, AND you're willing to forgo 30 inch displays and fast external hard drives, you still get Windoze, with FREE Viruses, Spyware and Advertising!!!!!!
The MBP 15.4 C2D looks pretty darned good, in both of its configurations - it's technically excellent, and priced competitively...
Great job. As many times as people point out the recent Apple offerings are very bang/buck competitive (or surpass what's out there), people still keep complaining that we're "so far behind everyone else!"
Great job. As many times as people point out the recent Apple offerings are very bang/buck competitive (or surpass what's out there), people still keep complaining that we're "so far behind everyone else!"
There are some problems with these comparisons though.
While what he put up is accurate, Dell often has sales that can bring the price down by anywhere from 20% to 50%. Apple has no plan for this. Even Apple's refurbished machines are priced close to a new machine.
The other problem we have to contend with is the "I build it myself, and it's much cheaper".
They then go on to illustrate a machine built with $20 cases and power supplies, as well as other cheap components, with a couple of good parts thrown in to make their point.
Apple can't compete with that.
Great job. As many times as people point out the recent Apple offerings are very bang/buck competitive (or surpass what's out there), people still keep complaining that we're "so far behind everyone else!"
agreed, nice job Dan Wells
Apple can't compete with that.
But, Apple stuff doesn't look like ca-ca, which the cheap homebuilts tend to. What I like about the recent comparisons (like the one above) is that finally, it's not a total slam dunk when PC makers (and users) say how cheap PC's are compared to Apple stuff.
But, Apple stuff doesn't look like ca-ca, which the cheap homebuilts tend to. What I like about the recent comparisons (like the one above) is that finally, it's not a total slam dunk when PC makers (and users) say how cheap PC's are compared to Apple stuff.
I'm not agreeing that they have a good argument in that I think their machines are great. Just that they do present the argument, and that for them, it is valid.
I'm not agreeing that they have a good argument in that I think their machines are great. Just that they do present the argument, and that for them, it is valid.
I don't disagree with you. But then, some people have an argument for Yugo's, too. For me, I think in the past there was a price difference in some ways. Now, I don't think that should be a consideration, which is cool.
Granted the video cards were awful, their ports likely more so, the keyboard a peice of crap, and the Windows... well...
Did I mention they looked like Toshibas?
Still, not even PC buyer's going to notice the difference we Macheads do, and that should concern Apple. It wouldn't hurt them to drop the price of the entry MBP's by a few hundred.