So the TweetDeck CEO is making stuff up about his own software whereas Jobs knows the truth? I understand what Jobs is trying to say about Android fragmentation, but he could have probably used a better example.
1. It's a Twitter app - of course you aren't seeing a problem because any Android can run a twitter app. Now make an app where you have to do full screen artwork (which resolution, again?), rely on hardware features, or GPU - see how much fragmentation matters then.
960x480? 480x320? iPhone 3G GPU, iphone 3GS GPU, iPhone 4G GPU? OpenGL ES 1.0 or 2.0?
If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.
An argument like that will come off as more arrogant than backing it up. Imagine if Microsoft, in the face of WinMobile's decline, simply pointed to their quarterly earnings and said "We do know what we're doing". By any measure Microsoft is still a money-printing machine. But they didn't know jack shit about the changing mobile market (and may still not - that remains to be seen.) Pointing to a cartoonish profit chart where the line shoots off the top is not the way to convince people.
As for the phone call transcript, MacWorld has the full text:
Poor Jobs. He seems to be unaware that all those custom ROMs (what real open source is about) are built upon Froyo or Eclair bases. I ran cyanogenmod6 back when I had my EVO and had no issues with any Apple compatibility. Now I'm using the Vibrant Galaxy S...and still have yet to encounter any issues with those same apps.
With that being said there are rare times when ill see an App get update because to improve performance on a specific device. Usually Droid or the X though.
Why hasn't tweetdeck completely abandoned Android? After all it HAS to be so difficult that only 2 guys are working on it, right?
From a gaming point, yeah it is a bit more difficult when you have to account for a lot more which is why gaming for Android will be akin to that on a PC where there is a baseline to even run said game (this issue exists on iOS already with developers either choosing GL 2.0 over 1.1, and those only newer headsets to older more used devices)
Don't know if this specific is included but 9to5Mac had a Youtube audio clip... this is a little longer version of the same think found on YouTube... Rant On Steve, Rant On...
This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....
Or just goes to show some developers (especially TweetDeck) has no freaking clue on how fraented Android is. If they only tested their app on all Android handsets they would've realized that their app doesn't work well on all Android handset.
Perhaps their CEO is not in touch with their developers..
For those too lazy to click:
Quote:
October 12, 2010
Android Ecosystem Infoporn Overload
As we bring our initial Android TweetDeck beta period to a close, we wanted to quickly reflect on the Android ecosystem and what might be considered extreme fragmentation. To date we've had 36,427 active beta testers and below you can see the massive variety of phones and Android OS versions everyone is running. We were really shocked to see the number of custom roms, crazy phones and general level of customization/hackalicious nature of Android. From our perspective it's pretty cool to have our app work on such a wide variety of devices and Android OS variations.
The post continues with charts etc.
For the truly lazy, here is what jobs actually said:
Quote:
Twitter client [TweetDeck] recently launched their app for Android. They reported that they had to contend with more than a hundred different versions of Android software on 244 different handsets. The multiple hardware and software iterations present developers with a daunting challenge. Many Android apps work only on selected Android handsets, running selected Android versions. And this is for handsets that have been shipped less than 12 months ago! Compare this with iPhone, where there are two versions of the software, the current and the most recent predecessor, to test against.
So what exactly did he make up? Oh he did not make anything up. You just made up your outrage.
I have to say, that the number on complaint on my Android phone is the fact some apps do no work. If you read the reviews most reviews comment on the fact that it either works on this or that version of Android or which hardware platform it may or may not work on.
Any developer who is not prepared to test their code on all versions of software and hardware is going to be into a rude awakening when people just trash the hell out of their apps because it did not work.
As Steve said consumers do not want to be system integrators and figure out what version of what works together. This is going back to the PC nightmare that existed for years and in some sense still exists.
So the TweetDeck CEO is making stuff up about his own software whereas Jobs knows the truth? I understand what Jobs is trying to say about Android fragmentation, but he could have probably used a better example.
Okay... I get it... you've got a bone to pick with Apple and you'd rather believe Tweetdeck. Fine. Whatever.
I just don't get why the guy would go to such lengths to make Steve look bad. He could have just said that there are challenges to all platforms... some more than others, some less... and leave it at that... but his statement goes further than that...
He precisely makes the case as to why 'open' is completely meaningless to 99.9% of users (you know, the ones who actually buy things?).
As to the benefit to developers, what is more important to most? That they can add some obscure functionality, or that they are given a frame work that allows them to actually get paid for their work?
'open' is simply a religious movement (and for Google, a very selective one at that.)
obscure functionality like a built in access point or tethering?
If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.
Except when you have folks demanding comment and you fail to give it. It makes it look like you are hiding something
And seriously, the comments aren't that bad. If you look at what he said and not what the other side tries to put in his mouth.
on Tweetdeck etc. he said that dealing with 100 variations of the Android software is a challenge. Tweetdeck tries to hyperbole his comment as he said it was 'a nightmare'. Which they find that it wasn't an issue at all. But what about the other folks dealing with the variations. perhaps they did and do find it a challenge.
what he said about the whole search and phone thing. totally true. Apple hasn't launched a web search even now. but Google sure is pushing that phone game.
What he said about the iphone 4 antenna is true. The media was the real problem. If there was a major design flaw it wouldn't just be 'failing' in the US.
And what says the chart about dificulties on development?
The chart speaks for itself, I think, but here's what a developer commented in response to a question regarding the difficulties introduced by fragmentation:
Quote:
Oct 13, 2010
cpabon said...
@Crow74 It's not particularly harder to develop for Android over iPhone (from a programing standpoint). Except when it comes to final QA and testing. Then it can be a nightmare. (a manageable nightmare mind you)
I know of a major company having a multi million dollar project held up because of it. Project managers definitely prefer developing for iPhone over Android. Because there is less to worry about in final QA.
I quoted what they said, the chart shows the fragmentation graphically. Which is all Jobs commented on.
No, Jobs said they had to contend when Tweetdeck programmer doesn't said anything about difficulties or that they had to make anything special to make the app work on any terminal
960x480? 480x320? iPhone 3G GPU, iphone 3GS GPU, iPhone 4G GPU? OpenGL ES 1.0 or 2.0?
You forget the iPad?s dimensions if we?re talking about a Universal app. All that aside, that is nothing for a developer.
Let?s start with the first thing you mention: Doubling of the resolution on the exact same size display with the exact same aspect ratio. Wow! A developer has to recompile in the newer SDK to allow for iPhone 4 and G4 iPod Touch usage to be ideal (though the old app will work anyway) and they should use the guidelines to make their images and Springboard icon higher res (though the old icon will work anyway).
You sound like Apple should never do a year-over-year upgrade to their HW because it means that after a year developers will have to account for progress. That is what we?re talking about here, progress, not a lateral move by a seemingly infinite number of manufacturers with various display sizes, resolutions, aspect ratios, CPUs, GPUs, RAM, Android versions, etc. that aren?t being delivered with any stable or calculated progress over each other. Don?t believe me? Exhibit A: Dell Streak.
Comments
... or the other guys are making stuff up.
Depends on who you want to believe, I guess.
So the TweetDeck CEO is making stuff up about his own software whereas Jobs knows the truth? I understand what Jobs is trying to say about Android fragmentation, but he could have probably used a better example.
Ha ha!
1. It's a Twitter app - of course you aren't seeing a problem because any Android can run a twitter app. Now make an app where you have to do full screen artwork (which resolution, again?), rely on hardware features, or GPU - see how much fragmentation matters then.
960x480? 480x320? iPhone 3G GPU, iphone 3GS GPU, iPhone 4G GPU? OpenGL ES 1.0 or 2.0?
If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.
An argument like that will come off as more arrogant than backing it up. Imagine if Microsoft, in the face of WinMobile's decline, simply pointed to their quarterly earnings and said "We do know what we're doing". By any measure Microsoft is still a money-printing machine. But they didn't know jack shit about the changing mobile market (and may still not - that remains to be seen.) Pointing to a cartoonish profit chart where the line shoots off the top is not the way to convince people.
As for the phone call transcript, MacWorld has the full text:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1549...ranscript.html
With that being said there are rare times when ill see an App get update because to improve performance on a specific device. Usually Droid or the X though.
Why hasn't tweetdeck completely abandoned Android? After all it HAS to be so difficult that only 2 guys are working on it, right?
From a gaming point, yeah it is a bit more difficult when you have to account for a lot more which is why gaming for Android will be akin to that on a PC where there is a baseline to even run said game (this issue exists on iOS already with developers either choosing GL 2.0 over 1.1, and those only newer headsets to older more used devices)
Is there a video of Steve Jobs' commentary?
Don't know if this specific is included but 9to5Mac had a Youtube audio clip... this is a little longer version of the same think found on YouTube... Rant On Steve, Rant On...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxoAF0Jvhqc
... or the other guys are making stuff up.
Depends on who you want to believe, I guess.
Indeed.
'"Did we at any point say it was a nightmare developing on Android?" Dodsworth wrote...'
Well, then - did Jobs at any point use the word 'nightmare'? It's not in the transcript.
Lying about the other guy to 'prove' the other guy is lying about you doesn't inspire a whole lot of trust.
This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....
Or just goes to show some developers (especially TweetDeck) has no freaking clue on how fraented Android is. If they only tested their app on all Android handsets they would've realized that their app doesn't work well on all Android handset.
This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....
Except of course everything Jobs said about tweetdeck came from their own very detailed blog post...
http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem
Perhaps their CEO is not in touch with their developers..
For those too lazy to click:
October 12, 2010
Android Ecosystem Infoporn Overload
As we bring our initial Android TweetDeck beta period to a close, we wanted to quickly reflect on the Android ecosystem and what might be considered extreme fragmentation. To date we've had 36,427 active beta testers and below you can see the massive variety of phones and Android OS versions everyone is running. We were really shocked to see the number of custom roms, crazy phones and general level of customization/hackalicious nature of Android. From our perspective it's pretty cool to have our app work on such a wide variety of devices and Android OS variations.
The post continues with charts etc.
For the truly lazy, here is what jobs actually said:
Twitter client [TweetDeck] recently launched their app for Android. They reported that they had to contend with more than a hundred different versions of Android software on 244 different handsets. The multiple hardware and software iterations present developers with a daunting challenge. Many Android apps work only on selected Android handsets, running selected Android versions. And this is for handsets that have been shipped less than 12 months ago! Compare this with iPhone, where there are two versions of the software, the current and the most recent predecessor, to test against.
So what exactly did he make up? Oh he did not make anything up. You just made up your outrage.
Except of course everything Jobs said about tweetdeck came from their own very detailed blog post...
http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem
Perhaps their CEO is not in touch with their developers..
And what says the chart about dificulties on development?
Any developer who is not prepared to test their code on all versions of software and hardware is going to be into a rude awakening when people just trash the hell out of their apps because it did not work.
As Steve said consumers do not want to be system integrators and figure out what version of what works together. This is going back to the PC nightmare that existed for years and in some sense still exists.
And what says the chart about dificulties on development?
I quoted what they said, the chart shows the fragmentation graphically. Which is all Jobs commented on.
So the TweetDeck CEO is making stuff up about his own software whereas Jobs knows the truth? I understand what Jobs is trying to say about Android fragmentation, but he could have probably used a better example.
Okay... I get it... you've got a bone to pick with Apple and you'd rather believe Tweetdeck. Fine. Whatever.
I just don't get why the guy would go to such lengths to make Steve look bad. He could have just said that there are challenges to all platforms... some more than others, some less... and leave it at that... but his statement goes further than that...
Rubin's Tweet had me rolling on the floor.
Talk about a case study in 'not getting it'.
He precisely makes the case as to why 'open' is completely meaningless to 99.9% of users (you know, the ones who actually buy things?).
As to the benefit to developers, what is more important to most? That they can add some obscure functionality, or that they are given a frame work that allows them to actually get paid for their work?
'open' is simply a religious movement (and for Google, a very selective one at that.)
obscure functionality like a built in access point or tethering?
If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.
Except when you have folks demanding comment and you fail to give it. It makes it look like you are hiding something
And seriously, the comments aren't that bad. If you look at what he said and not what the other side tries to put in his mouth.
on Tweetdeck etc. he said that dealing with 100 variations of the Android software is a challenge. Tweetdeck tries to hyperbole his comment as he said it was 'a nightmare'. Which they find that it wasn't an issue at all. But what about the other folks dealing with the variations. perhaps they did and do find it a challenge.
what he said about the whole search and phone thing. totally true. Apple hasn't launched a web search even now. but Google sure is pushing that phone game.
What he said about the iphone 4 antenna is true. The media was the real problem. If there was a major design flaw it wouldn't just be 'failing' in the US.
and so on.
And what says the chart about dificulties on development?
The chart speaks for itself, I think, but here's what a developer commented in response to a question regarding the difficulties introduced by fragmentation:
Oct 13, 2010
cpabon said...
@Crow74 It's not particularly harder to develop for Android over iPhone (from a programing standpoint). Except when it comes to final QA and testing. Then it can be a nightmare. (a manageable nightmare mind you)
I know of a major company having a multi million dollar project held up because of it. Project managers definitely prefer developing for iPhone over Android. Because there is less to worry about in final QA.
I quoted what they said, the chart shows the fragmentation graphically. Which is all Jobs commented on.
No, Jobs said they had to contend when Tweetdeck programmer doesn't said anything about difficulties or that they had to make anything special to make the app work on any terminal
These calls are never video. Telephone only.
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve...e-rant-2010-10
of Software engineering at APPLE.
He left Apple, started Android.
Sold Android to Google.
Now is Google's point man
for Android.
And what says the chart about dificulties on development?
Ha Ha if you scroll all the way down near the bottom of that page there is (1) user on a phone named "My Phone Bitch".
960x480? 480x320? iPhone 3G GPU, iphone 3GS GPU, iPhone 4G GPU? OpenGL ES 1.0 or 2.0?
You forget the iPad?s dimensions if we?re talking about a Universal app. All that aside, that is nothing for a developer.
Let?s start with the first thing you mention: Doubling of the resolution on the exact same size display with the exact same aspect ratio. Wow! A developer has to recompile in the newer SDK to allow for iPhone 4 and G4 iPod Touch usage to be ideal (though the old app will work anyway) and they should use the guidelines to make their images and Springboard icon higher res (though the old icon will work anyway).
You sound like Apple should never do a year-over-year upgrade to their HW because it means that after a year developers will have to account for progress. That is what we?re talking about here, progress, not a lateral move by a seemingly infinite number of manufacturers with various display sizes, resolutions, aspect ratios, CPUs, GPUs, RAM, Android versions, etc. that aren?t being delivered with any stable or calculated progress over each other. Don?t believe me? Exhibit A: Dell Streak.