I went down to a big retailer (FNAC) this week to see if they had the new Seagate external drives. While I was there I checked the laptops and desktops for firewire ports.
Of 23 laptops on display, 21 had firewire ports. Of the 13 desktops on display, all of them had firewire ports. These figures do not include Macs as they are in an Appleshop within the store and separated from the rest of the PCs and we already know which macs have firewire.
Which ones were they? It's almost impossible to believe. I rarely see more than a few with FW when I go to a large retailer.
No, which models. It's easy to just throw a few names out there.
It was an informal thing. Spur of the moment. I didn't pull out pen and paper and write down the model numbers of 30+ computers. I went to see if they had the new Seagate drives.
If I get time to go back I'll jot down the model numbers.
I think it's pretty acceptable that they removed firewire but the REAL problem is the macbook pro.
Assume you won't buy the cheap macbook because you need firewire but you don't want the old white macbook. You want a mac. Now the only option is to buy the macbook pro however there's no 13" macbook pro so you need to buy a 15". It's not right. I'm waiting for a portable macbook pro for years.
I think it's pretty acceptable that they removed firewire but the REAL problem is the macbook pro.
Assume you won't buy the cheap macbook because you need firewire but you don't want the old white macbook. You want a mac. Now the only option is to buy the macbook pro however there's no 13" macbook pro so you need to buy a 15". It's not right. I'm waiting for a portable macbook pro for years.
There is a difference between having excessive options and options that fit your particular needs. If options are what you want, then nothing Apple has ever made, including the iPod, is for you. Apple is still very much a boutique-like computer maker. If the you must have FW400, and the $999 MacBook isn't stylish enough for your needs and the 15" notebook isn't small enough?though it is quite portable by definition and design?then you have you have no choice but to choose one of the many other PC vendors.
I was quite surprised from a quick online search, how many low-end PC laptops come with FireWire.
The 4-pin IEEE1394 is quite common on non-Macs, but commodity PCs have a long history of adding ports for the sake of the "spec spankers". I doubt that more than a few are actually utilized.
PS: I was going through Amazon's top PC sales. I had to get to #43 before I find a non-Mac that wasn't a netbook. It's not too telling, but I found it interesting.
There is a difference between having excessive options and options that fit your particular needs. If options are what you want, then nothing Apple has ever made, including the iPod, is for you. Apple is still very much a boutique-like computer maker. If the you must have FW400, and the $999 MacBook isn't stylish enough for your needs and the 15" notebook isn't small enough—though it is quite portable by definition and design—then you have you have no choice but to choose one of the many other PC vendors.
So, does the time period from 98-2005 where there was option just not exist or something? Please, don't try to revise history to cover up the number of options Apple has cut over the last couple of years.
Apple early 2005:
All models also have BTO options and both USB2.0 and firewire.
desktop
MacMini $499, $599
eMac $799, $999
iMac G5: $1299, 1499, 1899,
PowerMac G5: $1499, $1999, $2499, $2999
Notebook:
12" iBook: $999,
14" iBook, $1299, $1499
12" Powerbook: $1599, 1799
15" Powerbook: $1999, 2499
17: Powerbook: $2799
Apple has cut the eMac, entry level PowerMac, and large screen iBook. The 12" iBook and Powerbook were merged into the 13" Macbook (and basically split the price difference between the two) and raised the price on the Mini. What used to be a very attractive lineup now is very limited and confining.
So, does the time period from 98-2005 where there was option just not exist or something? Please, don't try to revise history to cover up the number of options Apple has cut over the last couple of years.
Are you really arguing that because they offered something at one time they should always offer it in the future? The entire history of computing is a constant emergence and obsolescing of tech.
Are you really arguing that because they offered something at one time they should always offer it in the future? The entire history of computing is a constant emergence and obsolescing of tech.
If it helps the platform and the company, yes. Dropping features and models make Apple and the Mac OS X a less attractive option. Now, if you buy a Mac you're doing for the hype and not computer related requirements. Apple is going to wake in the not too distant future and find a lot of its core base is now gone. Or at least what were its core base. The new base is trendy teenagers.
If it helps the platform and the company, yes. Dropping features and models make Apple and the Mac OS X a less attractive option
That is the Dell and HP way, but they don't seem to be making much money following that path, at least here in the US. It's a good thing there are cheaper and more expensive options from Apple with FW, and other vendors to choose from.
I think it's pretty acceptable that they removed firewire but the REAL problem is the macbook pro.
Assume you won't buy the cheap macbook because you need firewire but you don't want the old white macbook. You want a mac. Now the only option is to buy the macbook pro however there's no 13" macbook pro so you need to buy a 15". It's not right. I'm waiting for a portable macbook pro for years.
Apple tried with the 12". It was very popular, but only for a small group of people. That's why Apple discontinued it.
If they don't think that having another SKU will pay for them, they won't have one.
That is the Dell and HP way, but they don't seem to be making much money following that path, at least here in the US.
No, that's the computer selling way. the Dell and HP way is to sell computers based on the needs of the least capable users ala iMac and Macbook.
Quote:
It's a good thing there are cheaper and more expensive options from Apple with FW, and other vendors to choose from.
The problem comes if the professional base chooses those other vendors over Apple. Do you really what this platform to go from the choice of the best and brightest to platform of fads and cultists? I one for one would prefer the Mac be chosen for computing, not social reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
So unattractive, limited and confining that Apple is selling more macs than before.
Lets talk again when we see what effects the new Macbook and Macbook Pro have first. Then again, you'd have and excuse for that anyhow. There is no way for Apple to be wrong with you is there?
So, does the time period from 98-2005 where there was option just not exist or something? Please, don't try to revise history to cover up the number of options Apple has cut over the last couple of years.
Apple early 2005:
All models also have BTO options and both USB2.0 and firewire.
desktop
MacMini $499, $599
eMac $799, $999
iMac G5: $1299, 1499, 1899,
PowerMac G5: $1499, $1999, $2499, $2999
Notebook:
12" iBook: $999,
14" iBook, $1299, $1499
12" Powerbook: $1599, 1799
15" Powerbook: $1999, 2499
17: Powerbook: $2799
Apple has cut the eMac, entry level PowerMac, and large screen iBook. The 12" iBook and Powerbook were merged into the 13" Macbook (and basically split the price difference between the two) and raised the price on the Mini. What used to be a very attractive lineup now is very limited and confining.
Limited and confining to whom?
To the ever increasing numbers of people who are moving to the Mac since Apple "cut" these lines?
Apple does what profitable companies do. They cut the "fat". If models aren't selling well enough to be continued, they are removed.
I find it interesting that in a report about Dell in the Times the other day, it was said that while it had increased its sales in its consumer computer division, it hasn't made a profit there.
I wonder why?
Well, one reason is that it tries to be there for everyone. It has far more models than Apple, in the effort to throw everything out there, and see what sticks.
I remember a few years ago when we were criticizing Creative for taking that approach to music player sales. Collectively, a good number may be sold, but individually, none sell very many, and it's hard to make a generalized profit.
The only way to do that is to cut the ones that don't sell that well, and boost the rest so that they do.
Apple gets this these days, from the days when THEY were criticized for having too many models.
They will never make everyone happy. But that's impossible anyway. No matter what they do, there will always be those who complain that Apple doesn't make the computer for THEM.
How long have we been complaining about the lack of an xMac?
If it helps the platform and the company, yes. Dropping features and models make Apple and the Mac OS X a less attractive option. Now, if you buy a Mac you're doing for the hype and not computer related requirements. Apple is going to wake in the not too distant future and find a lot of its core base is now gone. Or at least what were its core base. The new base is trendy teenagers.
That's the opinion of a few people here who want something Apple doesn't offer.
But the fact that their sales have been going up at several times the PC industries pace, shows that many don't agree with you on this.
So, most people in that situation will want one Mac, but will buy another, because what they are really buying into is the OS, not the hardware.
The problem comes if the professional base chooses those other vendors over Apple. Do you really what this platform to go from the choice of the best and brightest to platform of fads and cultists? I one for one would prefer the Mac be chosen for computing, not social reasons.
I'll tell you something, from having dealt with, and been part of that professional base.
They are not going to desert the Mac because of the lack of some cheaper consumer machines.
Despite the idea a few here are trying to push, the vast majority of the TRUE professional base buys professional machines.
There are some who would like to THINK they are part of the professional base, but are more amateurs making some on the side, or low end scrapers who aren't making enough to fork over an extra $500 for a machine.
Does that sound insulting? It isn't. It's truth.
We have a number of people in our user group here in NYC who are in that category. They barely make enough to get by, and usually have other jobs as well.
It's tough on them, but then, they really don't need new machines every time they come out. The weight issue is a non-issue.
What are people claiming to be doing with these machines that another pound will be so destructive to?
It surely can't be color graphics, because the pro machines have much better screens.
It can't be any heavy processing, because the pro machines beat the consumer machines there as well. Can't be 3D for the same reason.
So what's the story?
Is it really the coolness factor?
It can't be professional needs. I don't know of pros who lug equipment around who would argue against another pound, and another couple of inches in size.
If, then, it's non demanding work, what's the big deal? If it's money, they buy a pro machine that's been refurbished by Apple.
Comments
I went down to a big retailer (FNAC) this week to see if they had the new Seagate external drives. While I was there I checked the laptops and desktops for firewire ports.
Of 23 laptops on display, 21 had firewire ports. Of the 13 desktops on display, all of them had firewire ports. These figures do not include Macs as they are in an Appleshop within the store and separated from the rest of the PCs and we already know which macs have firewire.
Which ones were they? It's almost impossible to believe. I rarely see more than a few with FW when I go to a large retailer.
Which ones were they? It's almost impossible to believe. I rarely see more than a few with FW when I go to a large retailer.
The usual players: Sony, Toshiba, HP, Asus, Acer etc.
The usual players: Sony, Toshiba, HP, Asus, Acer etc.
No, which models. It's easy to just throw a few names out there.
No, which models. It's easy to just throw a few names out there.
It was an informal thing. Spur of the moment. I didn't pull out pen and paper and write down the model numbers of 30+ computers. I went to see if they had the new Seagate drives.
If I get time to go back I'll jot down the model numbers.
Assume you won't buy the cheap macbook because you need firewire but you don't want the old white macbook. You want a mac. Now the only option is to buy the macbook pro however there's no 13" macbook pro so you need to buy a 15". It's not right. I'm waiting for a portable macbook pro for years.
not enough options
I think it's pretty acceptable that they removed firewire but the REAL problem is the macbook pro.
Assume you won't buy the cheap macbook because you need firewire but you don't want the old white macbook. You want a mac. Now the only option is to buy the macbook pro however there's no 13" macbook pro so you need to buy a 15". It's not right. I'm waiting for a portable macbook pro for years.
There is a difference between having excessive options and options that fit your particular needs. If options are what you want, then nothing Apple has ever made, including the iPod, is for you. Apple is still very much a boutique-like computer maker. If the you must have FW400, and the $999 MacBook isn't stylish enough for your needs and the 15" notebook isn't small enough?though it is quite portable by definition and design?then you have you have no choice but to choose one of the many other PC vendors.
I was quite surprised from a quick online search, how many low-end PC laptops come with FireWire.
The 4-pin IEEE1394 is quite common on non-Macs, but commodity PCs have a long history of adding ports for the sake of the "spec spankers". I doubt that more than a few are actually utilized.
PS: I was going through Amazon's top PC sales. I had to get to #43 before I find a non-Mac that wasn't a netbook. It's not too telling, but I found it interesting.
There is a difference between having excessive options and options that fit your particular needs. If options are what you want, then nothing Apple has ever made, including the iPod, is for you. Apple is still very much a boutique-like computer maker. If the you must have FW400, and the $999 MacBook isn't stylish enough for your needs and the 15" notebook isn't small enough—though it is quite portable by definition and design—then you have you have no choice but to choose one of the many other PC vendors.
So, does the time period from 98-2005 where there was option just not exist or something? Please, don't try to revise history to cover up the number of options Apple has cut over the last couple of years.
Apple early 2005:
All models also have BTO options and both USB2.0 and firewire.
desktop
MacMini $499, $599
eMac $799, $999
iMac G5: $1299, 1499, 1899,
PowerMac G5: $1499, $1999, $2499, $2999
Notebook:
12" iBook: $999,
14" iBook, $1299, $1499
12" Powerbook: $1599, 1799
15" Powerbook: $1999, 2499
17: Powerbook: $2799
Apple has cut the eMac, entry level PowerMac, and large screen iBook. The 12" iBook and Powerbook were merged into the 13" Macbook (and basically split the price difference between the two) and raised the price on the Mini. What used to be a very attractive lineup now is very limited and confining.
So, does the time period from 98-2005 where there was option just not exist or something? Please, don't try to revise history to cover up the number of options Apple has cut over the last couple of years.
Are you really arguing that because they offered something at one time they should always offer it in the future? The entire history of computing is a constant emergence and obsolescing of tech.
Are you really arguing that because they offered something at one time they should always offer it in the future? The entire history of computing is a constant emergence and obsolescing of tech.
If it helps the platform and the company, yes. Dropping features and models make Apple and the Mac OS X a less attractive option. Now, if you buy a Mac you're doing for the hype and not computer related requirements. Apple is going to wake in the not too distant future and find a lot of its core base is now gone. Or at least what were its core base. The new base is trendy teenagers.
If it helps the platform and the company, yes. Dropping features and models make Apple and the Mac OS X a less attractive option
That is the Dell and HP way, but they don't seem to be making much money following that path, at least here in the US. It's a good thing there are cheaper and more expensive options from Apple with FW, and other vendors to choose from.
What used to be a very attractive lineup now is very limited and confining.
So unattractive, limited and confining that Apple is selling more macs than before.
I was quite surprised from a quick online search, how many low-end PC laptops come with FireWire.
I'm not amazed at how many more don't.
I think it's pretty acceptable that they removed firewire but the REAL problem is the macbook pro.
Assume you won't buy the cheap macbook because you need firewire but you don't want the old white macbook. You want a mac. Now the only option is to buy the macbook pro however there's no 13" macbook pro so you need to buy a 15". It's not right. I'm waiting for a portable macbook pro for years.
Apple tried with the 12". It was very popular, but only for a small group of people. That's why Apple discontinued it.
If they don't think that having another SKU will pay for them, they won't have one.
That is the Dell and HP way, but they don't seem to be making much money following that path, at least here in the US.
No, that's the computer selling way. the Dell and HP way is to sell computers based on the needs of the least capable users ala iMac and Macbook.
It's a good thing there are cheaper and more expensive options from Apple with FW, and other vendors to choose from.
The problem comes if the professional base chooses those other vendors over Apple. Do you really what this platform to go from the choice of the best and brightest to platform of fads and cultists? I one for one would prefer the Mac be chosen for computing, not social reasons.
So unattractive, limited and confining that Apple is selling more macs than before.
Lets talk again when we see what effects the new Macbook and Macbook Pro have first. Then again, you'd have and excuse for that anyhow. There is no way for Apple to be wrong with you is there?
I'm not amazed at how many more don't.
The better selling ones do. In fact, the Macbook might be the only notebook over $1000 without firewire.
So, does the time period from 98-2005 where there was option just not exist or something? Please, don't try to revise history to cover up the number of options Apple has cut over the last couple of years.
Apple early 2005:
All models also have BTO options and both USB2.0 and firewire.
desktop
MacMini $499, $599
eMac $799, $999
iMac G5: $1299, 1499, 1899,
PowerMac G5: $1499, $1999, $2499, $2999
Notebook:
12" iBook: $999,
14" iBook, $1299, $1499
12" Powerbook: $1599, 1799
15" Powerbook: $1999, 2499
17: Powerbook: $2799
Apple has cut the eMac, entry level PowerMac, and large screen iBook. The 12" iBook and Powerbook were merged into the 13" Macbook (and basically split the price difference between the two) and raised the price on the Mini. What used to be a very attractive lineup now is very limited and confining.
Limited and confining to whom?
To the ever increasing numbers of people who are moving to the Mac since Apple "cut" these lines?
Apple does what profitable companies do. They cut the "fat". If models aren't selling well enough to be continued, they are removed.
I find it interesting that in a report about Dell in the Times the other day, it was said that while it had increased its sales in its consumer computer division, it hasn't made a profit there.
I wonder why?
Well, one reason is that it tries to be there for everyone. It has far more models than Apple, in the effort to throw everything out there, and see what sticks.
I remember a few years ago when we were criticizing Creative for taking that approach to music player sales. Collectively, a good number may be sold, but individually, none sell very many, and it's hard to make a generalized profit.
The only way to do that is to cut the ones that don't sell that well, and boost the rest so that they do.
Apple gets this these days, from the days when THEY were criticized for having too many models.
They will never make everyone happy. But that's impossible anyway. No matter what they do, there will always be those who complain that Apple doesn't make the computer for THEM.
How long have we been complaining about the lack of an xMac?
Yet, Apple thrives.
If it helps the platform and the company, yes. Dropping features and models make Apple and the Mac OS X a less attractive option. Now, if you buy a Mac you're doing for the hype and not computer related requirements. Apple is going to wake in the not too distant future and find a lot of its core base is now gone. Or at least what were its core base. The new base is trendy teenagers.
That's the opinion of a few people here who want something Apple doesn't offer.
But the fact that their sales have been going up at several times the PC industries pace, shows that many don't agree with you on this.
So, most people in that situation will want one Mac, but will buy another, because what they are really buying into is the OS, not the hardware.
And even then, the hardware appeals.
The problem comes if the professional base chooses those other vendors over Apple. Do you really what this platform to go from the choice of the best and brightest to platform of fads and cultists? I one for one would prefer the Mac be chosen for computing, not social reasons.
I'll tell you something, from having dealt with, and been part of that professional base.
They are not going to desert the Mac because of the lack of some cheaper consumer machines.
Despite the idea a few here are trying to push, the vast majority of the TRUE professional base buys professional machines.
There are some who would like to THINK they are part of the professional base, but are more amateurs making some on the side, or low end scrapers who aren't making enough to fork over an extra $500 for a machine.
Does that sound insulting? It isn't. It's truth.
We have a number of people in our user group here in NYC who are in that category. They barely make enough to get by, and usually have other jobs as well.
It's tough on them, but then, they really don't need new machines every time they come out. The weight issue is a non-issue.
What are people claiming to be doing with these machines that another pound will be so destructive to?
It surely can't be color graphics, because the pro machines have much better screens.
It can't be any heavy processing, because the pro machines beat the consumer machines there as well. Can't be 3D for the same reason.
So what's the story?
Is it really the coolness factor?
It can't be professional needs. I don't know of pros who lug equipment around who would argue against another pound, and another couple of inches in size.
If, then, it's non demanding work, what's the big deal? If it's money, they buy a pro machine that's been refurbished by Apple.