If the money is not with college students then why are their repors of something like 80% of college students are buying Macs? Then figure that despite Apple's 10% share in the US they account for 1/3 of all the PC revenue in the US. Then recall that many colleges are not only requesting that users use Macs, and some are requiring it. Then assume that once you get into an OS platform you are most likely to stay with that OS platform, which is why going after students is even more important to Apple.
yes totally agree that there are more and more students buying apple - no arguments there
schools too seem to have been increasing their purchases
not sure about the 80% though... i've only seen a report where 84% wanted to buy a mac
as you know there's a difference - but apple stats might be able to prove conversion
who knows?
and yes it's good technique to convert students - some go on to be big earners
but most graduate students are often long way from being in charge of purchasing
and i have countless friends (wait make that a high % of my friends / family) who use macs at home
and would love to at work - but can't because their companies are unwilling
there're are a couple of leaps in logic here which aren't being shown to be true
it'd be nice for apple if that were the case though
and the photo of the lecture theatre filled with apples is impressive
(even if it probably came from a school which forced the purchases)
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
To say that because Macs are "pretty" and nothing else makes me think you have never owned or used a Mac. From an engineering perspective, they are only pretty because they are designed well.
don't get offended just because i have a different opinion
i've been on macs for ages and have spend a LOT of money on them
plus got a lot of people who can afford it to buy one (prob around 15+ and counting)
i love the look of the MB and plus it's probably quite strong
i'm just saying that business is not always sold on "pretty"
particularly when they have machines which have held up fine for years
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
What about the Mac is done just for looks and not for a specific function or purpose?
perhaps not - but i couldn't figure out if you were supporting the idea of selling MBs to students
while they are still students
or selling MBs to ex-students
the two are very different demographics with completely different needs
i thought it best to ask you rather than make assumptions.
I think it should be obvious students alone did not give Apple all of that money.
But every electronics manufacturer want to gain a loyal base from the young. With the hope as they grow older and have more money they will stay loyal.
In reference to the new Mac notebooks, that engineering beauty adds considerable strength and rigidity to the structure. This potentially allows Apple to make changes faster to the design, keep the repairs down, make the machines last longer, and potentially make them cheaper to produce in the future. The unibody was not done for looks.
As for my Precision Epidermal Unibody Enclosure it has multiple purposes, too. It keeps my internals in, it regulates temperature, it allows me the sense of touch, it protects me harmful rays of the sun, etc.
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
plus AI has been reporting their business advances for years
however anyone cheering this move must wonder
why apple would spend more on making the machine pretty than on much else
because businesses are mostly utilitarian
and don't give a hoot what a machine looks like
and since people claim that business don't like to pay for what they don't need...
Wrong again. Business does have needs and concerns about machines they do buy. Looks are certainly amongst those.
I posted this earlier. It certainly isn't the only article that says this, just the most recent.
A quote before the link.
Quote:
But unlike the old MacBook, the new one looks and feels like a business machine. Instead of a cheap plastic enclosure, it has a slimmer, stronger one-piece aluminum case. People sometimes forget that the MacBook Air (the machine I use) is clearly aimed at business execs.
Here is a 1.5TB external drive for $185 with only USB2.0 and eSATA. I haven't seen that before, but I wonder if this will be a greater trend in external drives, especially when USB3.0 comes out and if eSATA gains some traction.
I've seen quite a few of these dual interface options. I'm not 100% sure they can be trusted right now though. I read somewhere (I think it was from the maker of an Express Card eSATA option) that some of these dual interface options didn't have 'true' eSATA support (or words similar to that) and so would not work with the Express Card solution that the company (Sonnet?) was offering.
Actually Mac represents a sizable portion of the consumer market...21% in the US, 10% world wide.
Given that Mac has 21% of the US consumer market share and Macs all shipped with FW until recently you can easily draw the conclusion that macs represents a very large part of the 33% total computer market penetration for FW and an even higher percentage of the FW market penetration in the consumer computer market.
There's something fishy there. 21% is sizeable. 10% is not. You didn't say 10% 'rest of the world' so I presume that your 10% worldwide figure includes the 21% of the US market.
Worldwide, 10% is 10% whichever way you look at it and is not sizeable (at least in my book). Your method of easily concluding your firewire observations is very flawed.
Quote:
0.2% growth without taking into account the loss of the MB.
I wonder if the original calculation projected and factored in Apple's sales for 2008.
Quote:
Except it isn't and it has been shown that good USB implementations represent relatively low CPU usage...even in comparison to FW.
I'm curious. Does that hold true the more devices you attach? 'Relatively'? How much is 'relatively' and where was it shown? How can I tell a good implementation from a bad one? What happens if I mix and match?
Quote:
Except when that one model of notebook computer represents a significant portion of FW computer sales.
To my mind I have already debunked this a few pages back. I'm not sure if that got deleted though.
Yes, because they didn't remove any features those college kids care about while adding one they really DO care about. And the price increase fallacy was addressed pages ago.
Besides, that was to support the statement that the edu market is a significant demographic for Apple and in particular for the MacBook. Something Avon disagreed with.
One that you seem to as well. Apple did not design the new (or even arguably the old) MB for pros. They designed it for the consumer and education market. Graphics capability is far more important than FW now that iPods have been weaned from FW for a while now.
I still very much disagree with that. The MacBook is for all kinds of users (consumers, pros and college kids alike). If Apple were catering only to college kids they'd be better off offering the MacBook Education Edition. However, it's clear that that isn't the case (I haven't seen anything to even remotely support that claim.
people here are trying to say that a MB is designed for students
but its priced for a deeper pocket than most students have
before they used to stretch themselves to get one with the discount
There's a lot of wishful thinking going on on that front. It's convenient to give Apple a little spin when it comes to education (or anything else for that matter). I'm pro Mac (but not pro Apple) so I'll buy into it to a certain degree of spin but we have to get a sense of reality on the numbers.
I agree with otwayross. I think Apple has totally lost it if the new MacBook was designed for students and they put a such a high price on it. But let's be clear here. When we say 'students' are we referring to higher education and purchases by students or purchases by schools in other parts of the educational system that are not higher education?
Personally, I think Apple has repeated the mistake it made with the initial pricing of the iPhone. If anything, the market is worse now than it was at the time of the iPhone launch (Christmas will alleviate things somewhat) but I fully expect Apple to revise MacBook pricing soon.
So all those early adopters will be able to look forward to getting their $200 AppleStore vouchers as a means of compensation.
There's something fishy there. 21% is sizeable. 10% is not. You didn't say 10% 'rest of the world' so I presume that your 10% worldwide figure includes the 21% of the US market.
Its consumer retail sales. The actual figure is 8.2 percent.
There's a lot of wishful thinking going on on that front. It's convenient to give Apple a little spin when it comes to education (or anything else for that matter). I'm pro Mac (but not pro Apple) so I'll buy into it to a certain degree of spin but we have to get a sense of reality on the numbers.
I agree with otwayross. I think Apple has totally lost it if the new MacBook was designed for students and they put a such a high price on it. But let's be clear here. When we say 'students' are we referring to higher education and purchases by students or purchases by schools in other parts of the educational system that are not higher education?
Personally, I think Apple has repeated the mistake it made with the initial pricing of the iPhone. If anything, the market is worse now than it was at the time of the iPhone launch (Christmas will alleviate things somewhat) but I fully expect Apple to revise MacBook pricing soon.
So all those early adopters will be able to look forward to getting their $200 AppleStore vouchers as a means of compensation.
No, it wasn't designed just for students. It was designed for more people than that. Students just seem to be buying it in very large numbers. College bound students aren't as poor as you seem to think they are either. Also, parents do often help. They can also get student discounts which helps.
Comments
you think they got their 24.5 billion from students ?
Did you fully comprehend what I wrote?
If the money is not with college students then why are their repors of something like 80% of college students are buying Macs? Then figure that despite Apple's 10% share in the US they account for 1/3 of all the PC revenue in the US. Then recall that many colleges are not only requesting that users use Macs, and some are requiring it. Then assume that once you get into an OS platform you are most likely to stay with that OS platform, which is why going after students is even more important to Apple.
yes totally agree that there are more and more students buying apple - no arguments there
schools too seem to have been increasing their purchases
not sure about the 80% though... i've only seen a report where 84% wanted to buy a mac
as you know there's a difference - but apple stats might be able to prove conversion
who knows?
and yes it's good technique to convert students - some go on to be big earners
but most graduate students are often long way from being in charge of purchasing
and i have countless friends (wait make that a high % of my friends / family) who use macs at home
and would love to at work - but can't because their companies are unwilling
there're are a couple of leaps in logic here which aren't being shown to be true
it'd be nice for apple if that were the case though
and the photo of the lecture theatre filled with apples is impressive
(even if it probably came from a school which forced the purchases)
To say that because Macs are "pretty" and nothing else makes me think you have never owned or used a Mac. From an engineering perspective, they are only pretty because they are designed well.
don't get offended just because i have a different opinion
i've been on macs for ages and have spend a LOT of money on them
plus got a lot of people who can afford it to buy one (prob around 15+ and counting)
i love the look of the MB and plus it's probably quite strong
i'm just saying that business is not always sold on "pretty"
particularly when they have machines which have held up fine for years
What about the Mac is done just for looks and not for a specific function or purpose?
the Precision Epidermal Unibody Enclosure ?
Did you fully comprehend what I wrote?
perhaps not - but i couldn't figure out if you were supporting the idea of selling MBs to students
while they are still students
or selling MBs to ex-students
the two are very different demographics with completely different needs
i thought it best to ask you rather than make assumptions.
perhaps not - but i couldn't figure out if you were supporting the idea of selling MBs to students
while they are still students
or selling MBs to ex-students
the two are very different demographics with completely different needs
i thought it best to ask you rather than make assumptions.
I think it should be obvious students alone did not give Apple all of that money.
But every electronics manufacturer want to gain a loyal base from the young. With the hope as they grow older and have more money they will stay loyal.
the Precision Epidermal Unibody Enclosure ?
In reference to the new Mac notebooks, that engineering beauty adds considerable strength and rigidity to the structure. This potentially allows Apple to make changes faster to the design, keep the repairs down, make the machines last longer, and potentially make them cheaper to produce in the future. The unibody was not done for looks.
As for my Precision Epidermal Unibody Enclosure it has multiple purposes, too. It keeps my internals in, it regulates temperature, it allows me the sense of touch, it protects me harmful rays of the sun, etc.
whatever Mel you're clearly making assumptions (quite often wrong)
when you start sentences like 'you must think'
instead of just quoting what i have written
Not wrong.
Then respond to my last sentence. I see you didn't.
That will give you voice on that issue.
It's the responses not made, as well as the ones made that tell us what a person is thinking.
So, fill in the blank.
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
plus AI has been reporting their business advances for years
however anyone cheering this move must wonder
why apple would spend more on making the machine pretty than on much else
because businesses are mostly utilitarian
and don't give a hoot what a machine looks like
and since people claim that business don't like to pay for what they don't need...
Wrong again. Business does have needs and concerns about machines they do buy. Looks are certainly amongst those.
I posted this earlier. It certainly isn't the only article that says this, just the most recent.
A quote before the link.
But unlike the old MacBook, the new one looks and feels like a business machine. Instead of a cheap plastic enclosure, it has a slimmer, stronger one-piece aluminum case. People sometimes forget that the MacBook Air (the machine I use) is clearly aimed at business execs.
http://www.computerworld.com/action/...4&pageNumber=1
you think they got their 24.5 billion from students ?
College students go on to high paying jobs and life long Apple users
You accuse others of not reading posts and articles.
But, you clearly didn't read, or pay any attention to his entire post. You picked up one line, and ran with it.
perhaps not - but i couldn't figure out if you were supporting the idea of selling MBs to students
while they are still students
or selling MBs to ex-students
the two are very different demographics with completely different needs
i thought it best to ask you rather than make assumptions.
That wasn't asking. That was a sarcastic reply, and you know it.
The rest of his post had answered the "question" before you"asked" it.
That wasn't asking. That was a sarcastic reply, and you know it.
The rest of his post had answered the "question" before you"asked" it.
it wasn't a sarcastic reply at all,
i was following the thread of the argument...
students = not much money
ex-students = more money but different needs
if one wanted to sell to students they'd have to drop prices
which is why apple gives educational discounts to students just to enable them to buy macs
people here are trying to say that a MB is designed for students
but its priced for a deeper pocket than most students have
before they used to stretch themselves to get one with the discount
but hey don't believe me, maybe
WIRED agrees or Associated Press or the Washington Post
but I'll agree if you want to say that's only opinion...
anyway if you think most students have 1300 to spend on a MB then you must live in a rich area
or be referring to schools where macs are compulsary
@ Avon B7,
Here is a 1.5TB external drive for $185 with only USB2.0 and eSATA. I haven't seen that before, but I wonder if this will be a greater trend in external drives, especially when USB3.0 comes out and if eSATA gains some traction.
I've seen quite a few of these dual interface options. I'm not 100% sure they can be trusted right now though. I read somewhere (I think it was from the maker of an Express Card eSATA option) that some of these dual interface options didn't have 'true' eSATA support (or words similar to that) and so would not work with the Express Card solution that the company (Sonnet?) was offering.
Actually Mac represents a sizable portion of the consumer market...21% in the US, 10% world wide.
Given that Mac has 21% of the US consumer market share and Macs all shipped with FW until recently you can easily draw the conclusion that macs represents a very large part of the 33% total computer market penetration for FW and an even higher percentage of the FW market penetration in the consumer computer market.
There's something fishy there. 21% is sizeable. 10% is not. You didn't say 10% 'rest of the world' so I presume that your 10% worldwide figure includes the 21% of the US market.
Worldwide, 10% is 10% whichever way you look at it and is not sizeable (at least in my book). Your method of easily concluding your firewire observations is very flawed.
0.2% growth without taking into account the loss of the MB.
I wonder if the original calculation projected and factored in Apple's sales for 2008.
Except it isn't and it has been shown that good USB implementations represent relatively low CPU usage...even in comparison to FW.
I'm curious. Does that hold true the more devices you attach? 'Relatively'? How much is 'relatively' and where was it shown? How can I tell a good implementation from a bad one? What happens if I mix and match?
Except when that one model of notebook computer represents a significant portion of FW computer sales.
To my mind I have already debunked this a few pages back. I'm not sure if that got deleted though.
But most newer interface technologies are being developed with industrial, professional, and consumer interests in mind.
You just described Firewire (except for the newer bit). I can happily detail where firewire is being used with all of those interests in mind.
Something you avoided discussing eh?
That reminds me. Some posts back I enquired on how you were reaching the other TVs in your house from your Media Centre.
Yes, because they didn't remove any features those college kids care about while adding one they really DO care about. And the price increase fallacy was addressed pages ago.
Besides, that was to support the statement that the edu market is a significant demographic for Apple and in particular for the MacBook. Something Avon disagreed with.
One that you seem to as well. Apple did not design the new (or even arguably the old) MB for pros. They designed it for the consumer and education market. Graphics capability is far more important than FW now that iPods have been weaned from FW for a while now.
I still very much disagree with that. The MacBook is for all kinds of users (consumers, pros and college kids alike). If Apple were catering only to college kids they'd be better off offering the MacBook Education Edition. However, it's clear that that isn't the case (I haven't seen anything to even remotely support that claim.
The first thing I thought of when I saw the new 24" ACD with it's dock-less docking and power-passthrough is "this is for business".
I can't see any success for that product in business (unless it's graphics related) because of its high price when compared to competitors.
people here are trying to say that a MB is designed for students
but its priced for a deeper pocket than most students have
before they used to stretch themselves to get one with the discount
There's a lot of wishful thinking going on on that front. It's convenient to give Apple a little spin when it comes to education (or anything else for that matter). I'm pro Mac (but not pro Apple) so I'll buy into it to a certain degree of spin but we have to get a sense of reality on the numbers.
I agree with otwayross. I think Apple has totally lost it if the new MacBook was designed for students and they put a such a high price on it. But let's be clear here. When we say 'students' are we referring to higher education and purchases by students or purchases by schools in other parts of the educational system that are not higher education?
Personally, I think Apple has repeated the mistake it made with the initial pricing of the iPhone. If anything, the market is worse now than it was at the time of the iPhone launch (Christmas will alleviate things somewhat) but I fully expect Apple to revise MacBook pricing soon.
So all those early adopters will be able to look forward to getting their $200 AppleStore vouchers as a means of compensation.
There's something fishy there. 21% is sizeable. 10% is not. You didn't say 10% 'rest of the world' so I presume that your 10% worldwide figure includes the 21% of the US market.
Its consumer retail sales. The actual figure is 8.2 percent.
You just described Firewire (except for the newer bit). I can happily detail where firewire is being used with all of those interests in mind.
I can detail it too.
There's a lot of wishful thinking going on on that front. It's convenient to give Apple a little spin when it comes to education (or anything else for that matter). I'm pro Mac (but not pro Apple) so I'll buy into it to a certain degree of spin but we have to get a sense of reality on the numbers.
I agree with otwayross. I think Apple has totally lost it if the new MacBook was designed for students and they put a such a high price on it. But let's be clear here. When we say 'students' are we referring to higher education and purchases by students or purchases by schools in other parts of the educational system that are not higher education?
Personally, I think Apple has repeated the mistake it made with the initial pricing of the iPhone. If anything, the market is worse now than it was at the time of the iPhone launch (Christmas will alleviate things somewhat) but I fully expect Apple to revise MacBook pricing soon.
So all those early adopters will be able to look forward to getting their $200 AppleStore vouchers as a means of compensation.
No, it wasn't designed just for students. It was designed for more people than that. Students just seem to be buying it in very large numbers. College bound students aren't as poor as you seem to think they are either. Also, parents do often help. They can also get student discounts which helps.