yes Mel, please read the comments below the article you post
and then provide some proof that students who want macs actually buy them
especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...
Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.
Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.
The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.
Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?
Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.
The fact that some equipment will continue to have FW in some form doesn't really matter. If this equipment is high end, as is sometimes being pointed out, it simply justifies what I, and others are saying, which is, that the MB won't need FW, but for a while, at least, the pro machines will.
While I think Apple rushed a bit, by the end of next year, FW will have little reason for existing on cheap computers, no matter who makes them.
last point is good - given that SJ already stated that Apple wasn't interested in producing a cheap computer...
what do you define as a cheap computer? and do you really believe that the $1300 MB is cheap for your average consumer?
Quote:
Vinea
read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.
Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.
The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.
Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?
Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.
But they sells millions to other people.
why is it that when i ask you where you get your ideas
you respond by making assumptions / accusations about what i think
did i ever indicate that i thought audio professionals outnumbered anyone ?
a simple "i'm surmising" or "i don't know" would have sufficed \
Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.
Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.
The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.
Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?
Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.
But they sells millions to other people.
He evidently did not read the article, just skimmed it looking for some loophole. If he HAD read it then he would have read this line and not asked that question:
"The Mac's popularity may not be that much of a surprise given Apple's reputation for thriving in the education market. In its most recent quarter, Apple?s education division saw its best quarter ever for K-12 sales as well as well as the best June quarter for higher education Mac sales."
Obviously, Apple is incapable of converting interest into sales.
read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
No, MacWorld has confused their text and table. Assuming 51 secs for USB2 vs 45 secs for FW400 still isn't much delta for 70GB extra space for $10 less money or double the space for $30 more.
No, MacWorld has confused their text and table. Assuming 51 secs for USB2 vs 45 secs for FW400 still isn't much delta for 70GB extra space for $10 less money or double the space for $30 more.
Something you avoided discussing eh?
whatever, you were obviously just skimming
i've already said that if pure data transfer is your game, USB2 is fine
and saving a few seconds is not such a big deal
i don't really hear anyone arguing about that except you
oh and did you care to look what machine the tests were performed on??
a Mac Pro Quad 2.66... yeah that's like so applicable to a little MB
everyone on this thread knows that if you increase the power of the CPU the performance of USB increases
care to tell us when the next quad core MB is to be released ?
i've already said that if pure data transfer is your game, USB2 is fine
and saving a few seconds is not such a big deal
i don't really hear anyone arguing about that except you
Because you aren't paying attention. Who brought that particular drive and said he preferred FW? I'm not arguing with myself so obviously someone else brought up that point. I wonder who that could be?
you obviously skimmed my response and are just looking for a dig...
i was pointing out that by removing features and increasing the cost by nearly 20%
apple will make it more difficult for themselves to convert interest to sales
do you disagree ?
Yes, because they didn't remove any features those college kids care about while adding one they really DO care about. And the price increase fallacy was addressed pages ago.
Besides, that was to support the statement that the edu market is a significant demographic for Apple and in particular for the MacBook. Something Avon disagreed with.
One that you seem to as well. Apple did not design the new (or even arguably the old) MB for pros. They designed it for the consumer and education market. Graphics capability is far more important than FW now that iPods have been weaned from FW for a while now.
last point is good - given that SJ already stated that Apple wasn't interested in producing a cheap computer...
what do you define as a cheap computer? and do you really believe that the $1300 MB is cheap for your average consumer?
read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
Like it or not, the Macbook is a cheap computer to those who want a mac laptop. The rest buy the MBP.
Even in the PC world, there are laptops costing more than the most expensive MBP. Much more.
There are really three catagories in PC laptops.
Expensive, MBP priced machines (and higher).
Middle prices machines, which the Macbooks are in.
And bargain prices machines, which is an area in which Apple doesn't compete.
For Apple, the Macbook is the cheap machine. The older model which is now $999, and ofter available for$949, sometimes a bit less, is not an expensive machine by any means.
The newer, cooler looking, machines do cost more. But they are still cheap machines for Apple, and therefor for the people purchasing them.
I know lots of people who have Macbooks, because I'm involved in education, informally. I don't know of anyone who thinks the Macbooks are expensive. Even most PC laptop owners I know, think it's not expensive, though they're not interested, or ready, to move to the OS.
why is it that when i ask you where you get your ideas
you respond by making assumptions / accusations about what i think
did i ever indicate that i thought audio professionals outnumbered anyone ?
a simple "i'm surmising" or "i don't know" would have sufficed \
I'm simply going by what you say. Perhaps you don't always word things so that they come out the way you mean them to.
You don't want to admit that most sales are to students or people who don't need, or care about the things you think are important. That's why you doubt.
It isn't because of what you think you read in an article, which didn't say what you want to think it said.
So, therefor, I bring up what it looks as though you do believe, that there are those who do use these ports in great numbers. An idea which is simply not true.
As the people using these ports the most, are pros, you must think that there are massive numbers of them using Macbooks. As you don't want to believe the numbers, and percentages I supply, then you must believe that those pros are a far larger percentage of the Macbook user base than I know them to be.
It's not that difficult to get there from what you've been saying, not just in that one post, but from all of your posts.
If you agree that only a small number of people need, or care about FW in a Macbook exist. Then just say so. We will even agree!
Also, let's not forget that Mac laptops have been gaining in business as well. I already posted an article saying that the new Macbooks are well suited for business use.
Business users don't want features they don't use. FW is a big one.
Also, let's not forget that Mac laptops have been gaining in business as well. I already posted an article saying that the new Macbooks are well suited for business use.
Business users don't want features they don't use. FW is a big one.
The first thing I thought of when I saw the new 24" ACD with it's dock-less docking and power-passthrough is "this is for business". I think it's a clear sign that Apple is carefully and slowly moving into the business sector. Not so much for desktops, but for notebooks which have always been more specialized machines with non standard HW.
Then we have this new AI article...
"Last year, the company focused on its "digital lifestyle" products for consumers and the company's stronghold markets in education and creative professionals, relegating all other business into a single sentence.
This year's report outlines "consumer and small and mid-sized business," education, and then emphasizes "enterprise, government, and creative" as being the core target of its "high end hardware solutions," including the Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air."
This doesn't sound like a whole new division for business is being created, but it does look like they are planning a controlled entry to this sector.
I'm simply going by what you say. Perhaps you don't always word things so that they come out the way you mean them to.
You don't want to admit that most sales are to students or people who don't need, or care about the things you think are important. That's why you doubt.
It isn't because of what you think you read in an article, which didn't say what you want to think it said.
So, therefor, I bring up what it looks as though you do believe, that there are those who do use these ports in great numbers. An idea which is simply not true.
As the people using these ports the most, are pros, you must think that there are massive numbers of them using Macbooks. As you don't want to believe the numbers, and percentages I supply, then you must believe that those pros are a far larger percentage of the Macbook user base than I know them to be.
It's not that difficult to get there from what you've been saying, not just in that one post, but from all of your posts.
If you agree that only a small number of people need, or care about FW in a Macbook exist. Then just say so. We will even agree!
whatever Mel you're clearly making assumptions (quite often wrong)
The first thing I thought of when I saw the new 24" ACD with it's dock-less docking and power-passthrough is "this is for business". I think it's a clear sign that Apple is carefully and slowly moving into the business sector. Not so much for desktops, but for notebooks which have always been more specialized machines with non standard HW.
Then we have this new AI article...
"Last year, the company focused on its "digital lifestyle" products for consumers and the company's stronghold markets in education and creative professionals, relegating all other business into a single sentence.
This year's report outlines "consumer and small and mid-sized business," education, and then emphasizes "enterprise, government, and creative" as being the core target of its "high end hardware solutions," including the Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air."
This doesn't sound like a whole new division for business is being created, but it does look like they are planning a controlled entry to this sector.
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
plus AI has been reporting their business advances for years
however anyone cheering this move must wonder
why apple would spend more on making the machine pretty than on much else
because businesses are mostly utilitarian
and don't give a hoot what a machine looks like
and since people claim that business don't like to pay for what they don't need...
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
plus AI has been reporting their business advances for years
If the money is not with college students then why are their repors of something like 80% of college students are buying Macs? Then figure that despite Apple's 10% share in the US they account for 1/3 of all the PC revenue in the US. Then recall that many colleges are not only requesting that users use Macs, and some are requiring it. Then assume that once you get into an OS platform you are most likely to stay with that OS platform, which is why going after students is even more important to Apple.
Quote:
however anyone cheering this move must wonder
why apple would spend more on making the machine pretty than on much else
To say that because Macs are "pretty" and nothing else makes me think you have never owned or used a Mac. From an engineering perspective, they are only pretty because they are designed well.
Quote:
because businesses are mostly utilitarian
and don't give a hoot what a machine looks like
What about the Mac is done just for looks and not for a specific function or purpose?
Comments
yes Mel, please read the comments below the article you post
and then provide some proof that students who want macs actually buy them
especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...
Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.
Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.
The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.
Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?
Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.
But they sells millions to other people.
? Over 2B USB enabled devices shipped in 2006
? Check out the graphs under "Ubiquitous USB"
I bow to you. Now find number of total camcorders shipped.
The fact that some equipment will continue to have FW in some form doesn't really matter. If this equipment is high end, as is sometimes being pointed out, it simply justifies what I, and others are saying, which is, that the MB won't need FW, but for a while, at least, the pro machines will.
While I think Apple rushed a bit, by the end of next year, FW will have little reason for existing on cheap computers, no matter who makes them.
last point is good - given that SJ already stated that Apple wasn't interested in producing a cheap computer...
what do you define as a cheap computer? and do you really believe that the $1300 MB is cheap for your average consumer?
Vinea
read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.
Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.
The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.
Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?
Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.
But they sells millions to other people.
why is it that when i ask you where you get your ideas
you respond by making assumptions / accusations about what i think
did i ever indicate that i thought audio professionals outnumbered anyone ?
a simple "i'm surmising" or "i don't know" would have sufficed
Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.
Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.
The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.
Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?
Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.
But they sells millions to other people.
He evidently did not read the article, just skimmed it looking for some loophole. If he HAD read it then he would have read this line and not asked that question:
"The Mac's popularity may not be that much of a surprise given Apple's reputation for thriving in the education market. In its most recent quarter, Apple?s education division saw its best quarter ever for K-12 sales as well as well as the best June quarter for higher education Mac sales."
Obviously, Apple is incapable of converting interest into sales.
read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
No, MacWorld has confused their text and table. Assuming 51 secs for USB2 vs 45 secs for FW400 still isn't much delta for 70GB extra space for $10 less money or double the space for $30 more.
Something you avoided discussing eh?
Obviously, Apple is incapable of converting interest into sales.
i was pointing out that by removing features and increasing the cost by nearly 20%
apple will make it more difficult for themselves to convert interest to sales
do you disagree ?
No, MacWorld has confused their text and table. Assuming 51 secs for USB2 vs 45 secs for FW400 still isn't much delta for 70GB extra space for $10 less money or double the space for $30 more.
Something you avoided discussing eh?
whatever, you were obviously just skimming
i've already said that if pure data transfer is your game, USB2 is fine
and saving a few seconds is not such a big deal
i don't really hear anyone arguing about that except you
oh and did you care to look what machine the tests were performed on??
a Mac Pro Quad 2.66... yeah that's like so applicable to a little MB
everyone on this thread knows that if you increase the power of the CPU the performance of USB increases
care to tell us when the next quad core MB is to be released ?
whatever, you were obviously just skimming
i've already said that if pure data transfer is your game, USB2 is fine
and saving a few seconds is not such a big deal
i don't really hear anyone arguing about that except you
Because you aren't paying attention. Who brought that particular drive and said he preferred FW? I'm not arguing with myself so obviously someone else brought up that point. I wonder who that could be?
i was pointing out that by removing features and increasing the cost by nearly 20%
apple will make it more difficult for themselves to convert interest to sales
do you disagree ?
Yes, because they didn't remove any features those college kids care about while adding one they really DO care about. And the price increase fallacy was addressed pages ago.
Besides, that was to support the statement that the edu market is a significant demographic for Apple and in particular for the MacBook. Something Avon disagreed with.
One that you seem to as well. Apple did not design the new (or even arguably the old) MB for pros. They designed it for the consumer and education market. Graphics capability is far more important than FW now that iPods have been weaned from FW for a while now.
last point is good - given that SJ already stated that Apple wasn't interested in producing a cheap computer...
what do you define as a cheap computer? and do you really believe that the $1300 MB is cheap for your average consumer?
read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
Like it or not, the Macbook is a cheap computer to those who want a mac laptop. The rest buy the MBP.
Even in the PC world, there are laptops costing more than the most expensive MBP. Much more.
There are really three catagories in PC laptops.
Expensive, MBP priced machines (and higher).
Middle prices machines, which the Macbooks are in.
And bargain prices machines, which is an area in which Apple doesn't compete.
For Apple, the Macbook is the cheap machine. The older model which is now $999, and ofter available for$949, sometimes a bit less, is not an expensive machine by any means.
The newer, cooler looking, machines do cost more. But they are still cheap machines for Apple, and therefor for the people purchasing them.
I know lots of people who have Macbooks, because I'm involved in education, informally. I don't know of anyone who thinks the Macbooks are expensive. Even most PC laptop owners I know, think it's not expensive, though they're not interested, or ready, to move to the OS.
why is it that when i ask you where you get your ideas
you respond by making assumptions / accusations about what i think
did i ever indicate that i thought audio professionals outnumbered anyone ?
a simple "i'm surmising" or "i don't know" would have sufficed
I'm simply going by what you say. Perhaps you don't always word things so that they come out the way you mean them to.
You don't want to admit that most sales are to students or people who don't need, or care about the things you think are important. That's why you doubt.
It isn't because of what you think you read in an article, which didn't say what you want to think it said.
So, therefor, I bring up what it looks as though you do believe, that there are those who do use these ports in great numbers. An idea which is simply not true.
As the people using these ports the most, are pros, you must think that there are massive numbers of them using Macbooks. As you don't want to believe the numbers, and percentages I supply, then you must believe that those pros are a far larger percentage of the Macbook user base than I know them to be.
It's not that difficult to get there from what you've been saying, not just in that one post, but from all of your posts.
If you agree that only a small number of people need, or care about FW in a Macbook exist. Then just say so. We will even agree!
Business users don't want features they don't use. FW is a big one.
Also, let's not forget that Mac laptops have been gaining in business as well. I already posted an article saying that the new Macbooks are well suited for business use.
Business users don't want features they don't use. FW is a big one.
The first thing I thought of when I saw the new 24" ACD with it's dock-less docking and power-passthrough is "this is for business". I think it's a clear sign that Apple is carefully and slowly moving into the business sector. Not so much for desktops, but for notebooks which have always been more specialized machines with non standard HW.
Then we have this new AI article...This doesn't sound like a whole new division for business is being created, but it does look like they are planning a controlled entry to this sector.
My little LaCie is FW only. Oddly it has a USB dongle thingy for power...something I never understood. I guess it's for 4 pin FW or something.
I guess you always have to leave room for caveat. Their used to be FW only hard drives. Before USB became viable for large data transfer.
My point is today no major commercial hard drive vendor sells FW only hard drives.
I'm simply going by what you say. Perhaps you don't always word things so that they come out the way you mean them to.
You don't want to admit that most sales are to students or people who don't need, or care about the things you think are important. That's why you doubt.
It isn't because of what you think you read in an article, which didn't say what you want to think it said.
So, therefor, I bring up what it looks as though you do believe, that there are those who do use these ports in great numbers. An idea which is simply not true.
As the people using these ports the most, are pros, you must think that there are massive numbers of them using Macbooks. As you don't want to believe the numbers, and percentages I supply, then you must believe that those pros are a far larger percentage of the Macbook user base than I know them to be.
It's not that difficult to get there from what you've been saying, not just in that one post, but from all of your posts.
If you agree that only a small number of people need, or care about FW in a Macbook exist. Then just say so. We will even agree!
whatever Mel you're clearly making assumptions (quite often wrong)
when you start sentences like 'you must think'
instead of just quoting what i have written
The first thing I thought of when I saw the new 24" ACD with it's dock-less docking and power-passthrough is "this is for business". I think it's a clear sign that Apple is carefully and slowly moving into the business sector. Not so much for desktops, but for notebooks which have always been more specialized machines with non standard HW.
Then we have this new AI article...This doesn't sound like a whole new division for business is being created, but it does look like they are planning a controlled entry to this sector.
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
plus AI has been reporting their business advances for years
however anyone cheering this move must wonder
why apple would spend more on making the machine pretty than on much else
because businesses are mostly utilitarian
and don't give a hoot what a machine looks like
and since people claim that business don't like to pay for what they don't need...
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
Apple has 24.5 billion in cash without much penetration into business.
College students go on to high paying jobs and life long Apple users.
(where much of that 24.5 billion in cash came from)
i totally agree that Apple wants to move into business
and if they're chasing dollar it'd be wise - that's where the money is
(it certainly isn't with college students)
plus AI has been reporting their business advances for years
If the money is not with college students then why are their repors of something like 80% of college students are buying Macs? Then figure that despite Apple's 10% share in the US they account for 1/3 of all the PC revenue in the US. Then recall that many colleges are not only requesting that users use Macs, and some are requiring it. Then assume that once you get into an OS platform you are most likely to stay with that OS platform, which is why going after students is even more important to Apple.
however anyone cheering this move must wonder
why apple would spend more on making the machine pretty than on much else
To say that because Macs are "pretty" and nothing else makes me think you have never owned or used a Mac. From an engineering perspective, they are only pretty because they are designed well.
because businesses are mostly utilitarian
and don't give a hoot what a machine looks like
What about the Mac is done just for looks and not for a specific function or purpose?
Apple has 24.5 billion in cash without much penetration into business.
College students go on to high paying jobs and life long Apple users.
(where much of that 24.5 billion in cash came from)
you think they got their 24.5 billion from students ?