Tape is kind of pointless since hard disks are really cheap, are fast, are actually more robust than tapes, and you can run a RAID 1 more cheaply than a tape-based system unless you have one of those IBM/Tivoli robotic arm silos. The pain of a tape system is that someone (or something) has to swap tapes in and out.
Tape is also a pain because it's sequential access, not random access. Which brings me to my second point. Murch likes to beat on the backup angle. Backup, backup, backup. There is another angle he doesn't mention and that is far more important to the average user: offline data storage. I don't know about you, but I've got about a terabyte of data offloaded to DVD-R discs. They're not "backups" per se because they wouldn't be used to restore any files. I just organize then dump data to them because I need to free up HD space. Then when I need a file, I know exactly what disc it's on and can get to it in seconds without having to zip through a lot of tape. Still, I wish I had larger discs, because sometimes 4.4GB just isn't enough and I have to split folders up among multiple discs. Blu-ray should be even more robust than HD-DVD, given the recent hubbub about how easily dye-based discs degrade. HD-DVD will continue with dyes while Blu-ray (at least from TDK) intends to use phase-change materials.
Kolchak what you speak of is true for home user. I'm merely talking from within the context of SMB and Enterprise level companies who can afford to backup to a NAS in the Terabyte region. Tape is then used to archive for offline storage. I think Blu Ray and potentially HD DVD will be popular for consumers and fairly small companies.
Heh, this thread has disappeared (at least when I click on it) but on the other hand, now that HD-DVD is out, its not really Future Hardware is it?
Yeah, something funky has happened with this thread, but oh well. Here's a bit of news concerning Panasonic, who also plans releasing a Blu-ray drive in June...
I want one of these things, but for data and Blu-ray (and Mac-compatible, of course). 200 50GB Blu-ray discs would be 10TB of storage. That might hold me for a little while.
I want one of these things, but for data and Blu-ray (and Mac-compatible, of course). 200 50GB Blu-ray discs would be 10TB of storage. That might hold me for a little while.
That would be cool! Also, here's another article on another company, I-O Data, releasing Blu-ray drives in June...
Looks good, even though the music sounded like it was from a porno movie or something. Or is that what Blu-ray intended having the majority of pornshare? Anyhow, worth a look. Thanks again.
Or is that what Blu-ray intended having the majority of pornshare?
The following comes from a post on one of my movie boards, by Don May Jr., who owns Synapse Films:
"Also, Sony (U.S.) doesn't like to deal with "adult" oriented product. Do you think there are going to be any hardcore/XXX rated BLU-RAY discs? I highly doubt it... that factor alone is going to have a HUGE impact on the format war. Adult movies really drive the home video industry and many claim that, because Sony hesitated to sign the deal for adult films back in the Betamax days (remember they pretty much all came out on VHS?) that that alone killed Sony's Beta format.
When we met with Sony to discuss titles and told them about THRILLER and THE IMAGE and that we wanted to do BLU-RAY discs of those two titles, they pretty much told us they WOULDN'T do them because of their extreme adult content! They were like "umm... well... we don't know if we can do that sort of thing." That attitude may just outright kill the BLU-RAY format. People want adult films... it's a hundreds of millions of dollars a year business... and HD-DVD will have them. It's funny how, when I bring this up (about the adult films), that people say that "they didn't think of that" when discussing which format will prevail."
The following comes from a post on one of my movie boards, by Don May Jr., who owns Synapse Films:
"Also, Sony (U.S.) doesn't like to deal with "adult" oriented product. Do you think there are going to be any hardcore/XXX rated BLU-RAY discs? I highly doubt it... that factor alone is going to have a HUGE impact on the format war. Adult movies really drive the home video industry and many claim that, because Sony hesitated to sign the deal for adult films back in the Betamax days (remember they pretty much all came out on VHS?) that that alone killed Sony's Beta format.
When we met with Sony to discuss titles and told them about THRILLER and THE IMAGE and that we wanted to do BLU-RAY discs of those two titles, they pretty much told us they WOULDN'T do them because of their extreme adult content! They were like "umm... well... we don't know if we can do that sort of thing." That attitude may just outright kill the BLU-RAY format. People want adult films... it's a hundreds of millions of dollars a year business... and HD-DVD will have them. It's funny how, when I bring this up (about the adult films), that people say that "they didn't think of that" when discussing which format will prevail."
FWIW
It's not up to Sony who uses The Blue Ray format. It's up to Sony Who's movies sony pictures distributes.
Quote:
Porn industry mulls next-generation DVD
Published on ZDNet News: January 9, 2005, 3:50 PM PT
As goes pornography, so goes technology.
The concept may seem odd, but history has proven the adult entertainment industry to be one of the key drivers of any new technology in home entertainment. Pornography customers have been some of the first to buy home video machines, DVD players and subscribe to high-speed Internet.
One of the next big issues in which pornographers could play a deciding role is the future of high-definition DVDs.
The multibillion-dollar industry releases about 11,000 titles on DVD each year, giving it tremendous power to sway the battle between two groups of studios and technology companies competing to set standards for the next generation.
"It's sort of like the buzz around the campfire," said Peter Warren, DVD editor at industry bible Adult Video News.
One side of the divide is a standard called Blu-ray backed by consumer electronics heavyweights like Sony, Philips Electronics and Thomson and movie studios Fox and Disney. Blu-ray offers storage up to 50 gigabytes, enough for nine hours of high-definition content.
On the other side of the fight is HD DVD, which has much the same structure as current DVDs and, backers say, is cheaper and easier to manufacture as a result. Supporters of the disc format and its 30GB capacity include companies like NEC, Toshiba and Warner Home Video.
Adult film producers want the higher quality picture as well as extra space for creative expression--like giving viewers choice of camera angles.
Pornographers weighed in on the coming battle last week at the industry's Adult Entertainment Expo, which ran parallel with the largest U.S. technology fair, the Consumer Electronics Show, and had many of the same technologies--sometimes a generation ahead.
Sentiment about the format rivalry varies, depending largely on the size of porn producer.
Smaller outfits seem to prefer HD DVD for its lower cost, while larger outfits tend toward Blu-ray for the capacity.
"We're kind of riding it out a little further to see where the trend goes," said Jackie Ramos, an executive in the DVD division at leading porn producer Wicked Pictures. But if he had to choose, Ramos said, "Blu-ray technology sounds pretty attractive."
Paul Hesky, chief operating officer of Multimedia Pictures, one of the smaller groups, disagreed.
"Most of the DVD manufacturers in my business do not want the Blu-ray format because it requires new capital investment," he said, adding, "I know for sure one format or the other will be out (on the market) by this time next year."
Others say they want to see what consumers prefer.
Adult Video News's Warren said HD DVD production would be a "fraction of a fraction of the price" of Blu-ray, but that the latter format could not be dismissed.
"Blu-ray is going to be very expensive for anyone to do but it is going to be a player," he said.
Blu-ray supporters, however, argue that the increased cost of its processes is negligible.
Hollywood has begun lining up on both sides of the battle as they have watched the growth of DVDs slow. They will want a new standard in place soon, to accelerate again.
Many are watching the porn industry to see what happens.
"That whole business has driven technology adoption of several platforms," said one major studio executive. "A better, more intense experience is a good thing for porn."
Some people have openly stated they are all for the Blue ray format.
Quote:
Porn company backs Blu-ray
Digital Playground, a US adult film maker known as an innovator in bringing porn to personal computers, has thrown its support behind the Sony-developed Blu-ray Disc format. "We feel that of the two formats, it's the one that's more future-proofed," Digital Playground's president and founder, who identifies himself as Joone, said. Blu-Ray is competing with Toshiba's HD DVD format, and so far seems to be gathering the majority of support, particularly from Hollywood studios.
Even though Digital Playground has picked a next generation format to run with, it has not yet managed to find a company willing to mass produce its content in the new format. Joone says this is because companies that replicated DVDs are hesitant to embrace the porn industry and are committed in putting mainstream Hollywood's movies onto the new discs. However, the Blu-ray group is happy for the new endorsement as it shows the format's wide appeal.
"It shows that Blu-ray is appealing to film genres of many types," said Andy Parsons, a spokesman for Blu-ray and a senior vice president at Pioneer Electronics. The format war will kick off properly this year with the launch of both formats and new players within the next few months. Both sides also have a planned offering of high definition movies for 2006.
We're not seeing either drive in a Mac until the prices approach sanity. The only people that are going to pay the current $850 prices are those authoring content that needs to be tested on optical media.
The avg consumer isn't going shell out this cash for something that won't hook up to their HDTV and play House of Flying Daggers.
Yes Apple shipped the Superdrive but today is different with HDCP and AACS locking down pre-recorded content.
The honest question is:
"What are you going to do with a Blu Ray or HD-DVD recorder to justify the price?"
I'm finding little benefit to either format right now until the supporting cast is better (GPUs with full HDCP support and HDMI/UHD connectors)
The buyer remorse is going to be fierce with this first units.
"What are you going to do with a Blu Ray or HD-DVD recorder to justify the price?"
....
Blu-ray and HD-DVD today primarily serve the same purpose that every other removeable media format serves on your computer. It allows the user to archive and distribute data.
Blu-ray and HD-DVD today primarily serve the same purpose that every other removeable media format serves on your computer. It allows the user to archive and distribute data.
Can you get HD-DVD writers yet? I've only seen Blu-Ray so far.
Blu-ray and HD-DVD today primarily serve the same purpose that every other removeable media format serves on your computer. It allows the user to archive and distribute data.
Thus we must look at the particular value each offers as a removable and archivable format.
If Apple was to ship Blu Ray drives in Powermacs this year it would
A. Jack up the price horribly.
B. BTO option would help but until saturation happens you cannot guarantee that your disc will actually be playable on many other computers.
I sense a palpable excitement to Marzetta7's posts but the logical part of my brain knows that Blu Ray and HD-DVD come with more issues than DVD did. Yes their storage technology but if that is the context in which I view the products then I must include them along with other storage devices and again ask "why am i paying this exhorbitant amount?"
Quote:
is it me or does it seem like no one really cares about this war anymore?
it feels like the whole thing just ran out of steam.
No the reality has sunk in that HD-DVD isn't going anywhere anytime soon and we're still waiting for Blu Ray. People now are happily watching HD-DVDs in the comfort of their own home. That was the endgame for consumers. HD content in their living rooms. How the CE companies slice up the market is of no consequence as long as content is available.
Comments
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Tape is kind of pointless since hard disks are really cheap, are fast, are actually more robust than tapes, and you can run a RAID 1 more cheaply than a tape-based system unless you have one of those IBM/Tivoli robotic arm silos. The pain of a tape system is that someone (or something) has to swap tapes in and out.
Tape is also a pain because it's sequential access, not random access. Which brings me to my second point. Murch likes to beat on the backup angle. Backup, backup, backup. There is another angle he doesn't mention and that is far more important to the average user: offline data storage. I don't know about you, but I've got about a terabyte of data offloaded to DVD-R discs. They're not "backups" per se because they wouldn't be used to restore any files. I just organize then dump data to them because I need to free up HD space. Then when I need a file, I know exactly what disc it's on and can get to it in seconds without having to zip through a lot of tape. Still, I wish I had larger discs, because sometimes 4.4GB just isn't enough and I have to split folders up among multiple discs. Blu-ray should be even more robust than HD-DVD, given the recent hubbub about how easily dye-based discs degrade. HD-DVD will continue with dyes while Blu-ray (at least from TDK) intends to use phase-change materials.
Originally posted by vinea
Heh, this thread has disappeared (at least when I click on it) but on the other hand, now that HD-DVD is out, its not really Future Hardware is it?
Yeah, something funky has happened with this thread, but oh well. Here's a bit of news concerning Panasonic, who also plans releasing a Blu-ray drive in June...
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04...uray/index.php
June 10th is the day. Panasonic seems to want it more than some other vendorys. Way to go Panny now get me some consumer HD camcorders you bums !
Originally posted by Kolchak
I want one of these things, but for data and Blu-ray (and Mac-compatible, of course). 200 50GB Blu-ray discs would be 10TB of storage. That might hold me for a little while.
That would be cool! Also, here's another article on another company, I-O Data, releasing Blu-ray drives in June...
http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?05/97/78
Originally posted by hmurchison
Panasonic $850 Blu Ray Burner coming soon
June 10th is the day. Panasonic seems to want it more than some other vendorys. Way to go Panny now get me some consumer HD camcorders you bums !
Thanks for the link. With the one you provided, I linked to this video showing the Panasonic hardware,
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-11625-.html
Looks good, even though the music sounded like it was from a porno movie or something. Or is that what Blu-ray intended having the majority of pornshare? Anyhow, worth a look. Thanks again.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Or is that what Blu-ray intended having the majority of pornshare?
The following comes from a post on one of my movie boards, by Don May Jr., who owns Synapse Films:
"Also, Sony (U.S.) doesn't like to deal with "adult" oriented product. Do you think there are going to be any hardcore/XXX rated BLU-RAY discs? I highly doubt it... that factor alone is going to have a HUGE impact on the format war. Adult movies really drive the home video industry and many claim that, because Sony hesitated to sign the deal for adult films back in the Betamax days (remember they pretty much all came out on VHS?) that that alone killed Sony's Beta format.
When we met with Sony to discuss titles and told them about THRILLER and THE IMAGE and that we wanted to do BLU-RAY discs of those two titles, they pretty much told us they WOULDN'T do them because of their extreme adult content! They were like "umm... well... we don't know if we can do that sort of thing." That attitude may just outright kill the BLU-RAY format. People want adult films... it's a hundreds of millions of dollars a year business... and HD-DVD will have them. It's funny how, when I bring this up (about the adult films), that people say that "they didn't think of that" when discussing which format will prevail."
FWIW
Originally posted by wilco
The following comes from a post on one of my movie boards, by Don May Jr., who owns Synapse Films:
"Also, Sony (U.S.) doesn't like to deal with "adult" oriented product. Do you think there are going to be any hardcore/XXX rated BLU-RAY discs? I highly doubt it... that factor alone is going to have a HUGE impact on the format war. Adult movies really drive the home video industry and many claim that, because Sony hesitated to sign the deal for adult films back in the Betamax days (remember they pretty much all came out on VHS?) that that alone killed Sony's Beta format.
When we met with Sony to discuss titles and told them about THRILLER and THE IMAGE and that we wanted to do BLU-RAY discs of those two titles, they pretty much told us they WOULDN'T do them because of their extreme adult content! They were like "umm... well... we don't know if we can do that sort of thing." That attitude may just outright kill the BLU-RAY format. People want adult films... it's a hundreds of millions of dollars a year business... and HD-DVD will have them. It's funny how, when I bring this up (about the adult films), that people say that "they didn't think of that" when discussing which format will prevail."
FWIW
It's not up to Sony who uses The Blue Ray format. It's up to Sony Who's movies sony pictures distributes.
Porn industry mulls next-generation DVD
Published on ZDNet News: January 9, 2005, 3:50 PM PT
As goes pornography, so goes technology.
The concept may seem odd, but history has proven the adult entertainment industry to be one of the key drivers of any new technology in home entertainment. Pornography customers have been some of the first to buy home video machines, DVD players and subscribe to high-speed Internet.
One of the next big issues in which pornographers could play a deciding role is the future of high-definition DVDs.
The multibillion-dollar industry releases about 11,000 titles on DVD each year, giving it tremendous power to sway the battle between two groups of studios and technology companies competing to set standards for the next generation.
"It's sort of like the buzz around the campfire," said Peter Warren, DVD editor at industry bible Adult Video News.
One side of the divide is a standard called Blu-ray backed by consumer electronics heavyweights like Sony, Philips Electronics and Thomson and movie studios Fox and Disney. Blu-ray offers storage up to 50 gigabytes, enough for nine hours of high-definition content.
On the other side of the fight is HD DVD, which has much the same structure as current DVDs and, backers say, is cheaper and easier to manufacture as a result. Supporters of the disc format and its 30GB capacity include companies like NEC, Toshiba and Warner Home Video.
Adult film producers want the higher quality picture as well as extra space for creative expression--like giving viewers choice of camera angles.
Pornographers weighed in on the coming battle last week at the industry's Adult Entertainment Expo, which ran parallel with the largest U.S. technology fair, the Consumer Electronics Show, and had many of the same technologies--sometimes a generation ahead.
Sentiment about the format rivalry varies, depending largely on the size of porn producer.
Smaller outfits seem to prefer HD DVD for its lower cost, while larger outfits tend toward Blu-ray for the capacity.
"We're kind of riding it out a little further to see where the trend goes," said Jackie Ramos, an executive in the DVD division at leading porn producer Wicked Pictures. But if he had to choose, Ramos said, "Blu-ray technology sounds pretty attractive."
Paul Hesky, chief operating officer of Multimedia Pictures, one of the smaller groups, disagreed.
"Most of the DVD manufacturers in my business do not want the Blu-ray format because it requires new capital investment," he said, adding, "I know for sure one format or the other will be out (on the market) by this time next year."
Others say they want to see what consumers prefer.
Adult Video News's Warren said HD DVD production would be a "fraction of a fraction of the price" of Blu-ray, but that the latter format could not be dismissed.
"Blu-ray is going to be very expensive for anyone to do but it is going to be a player," he said.
Blu-ray supporters, however, argue that the increased cost of its processes is negligible.
Hollywood has begun lining up on both sides of the battle as they have watched the growth of DVDs slow. They will want a new standard in place soon, to accelerate again.
Many are watching the porn industry to see what happens.
"That whole business has driven technology adoption of several platforms," said one major studio executive. "A better, more intense experience is a good thing for porn."
Story Copyright © 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
Some people have openly stated they are all for the Blue ray format.
Porn company backs Blu-ray
Digital Playground, a US adult film maker known as an innovator in bringing porn to personal computers, has thrown its support behind the Sony-developed Blu-ray Disc format. "We feel that of the two formats, it's the one that's more future-proofed," Digital Playground's president and founder, who identifies himself as Joone, said. Blu-Ray is competing with Toshiba's HD DVD format, and so far seems to be gathering the majority of support, particularly from Hollywood studios.
Even though Digital Playground has picked a next generation format to run with, it has not yet managed to find a company willing to mass produce its content in the new format. Joone says this is because companies that replicated DVDs are hesitant to embrace the porn industry and are committed in putting mainstream Hollywood's movies onto the new discs. However, the Blu-ray group is happy for the new endorsement as it shows the format's wide appeal.
"It shows that Blu-ray is appealing to film genres of many types," said Andy Parsons, a spokesman for Blu-ray and a senior vice president at Pioneer Electronics. The format war will kick off properly this year with the launch of both formats and new players within the next few months. Both sides also have a planned offering of high definition movies for 2006.
a least there are those out there that dont bite into sony's bullshit.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xURflJaEe...illzone%20fake
a least there are those out there that dont bite into sony's bullshit.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xURflJaEe...illzone%20fake
http://www.i4u.com/article5496.html
Hmm, makes me think we'll be seeing a Blu-ray drive in a Mac Pro later this year!!!
We're not seeing either drive in a Mac until the prices approach sanity. The only people that are going to pay the current $850 prices are those authoring content that needs to be tested on optical media.
The avg consumer isn't going shell out this cash for something that won't hook up to their HDTV and play House of Flying Daggers.
Yes Apple shipped the Superdrive but today is different with HDCP and AACS locking down pre-recorded content.
The honest question is:
"What are you going to do with a Blu Ray or HD-DVD recorder to justify the price?"
I'm finding little benefit to either format right now until the supporting cast is better (GPUs with full HDCP support and HDMI/UHD connectors)
The buyer remorse is going to be fierce with this first units.
Originally posted by hmurchison
....
The honest question is:
"What are you going to do with a Blu Ray or HD-DVD recorder to justify the price?"
....
Blu-ray and HD-DVD today primarily serve the same purpose that every other removeable media format serves on your computer. It allows the user to archive and distribute data.
it feels like the whole thing just ran out of steam.
Originally posted by Mr. Me
Blu-ray and HD-DVD today primarily serve the same purpose that every other removeable media format serves on your computer. It allows the user to archive and distribute data.
Can you get HD-DVD writers yet? I've only seen Blu-Ray so far.
Originally posted by Mr. Me
Blu-ray and HD-DVD today primarily serve the same purpose that every other removeable media format serves on your computer. It allows the user to archive and distribute data.
Thus we must look at the particular value each offers as a removable and archivable format.
If Apple was to ship Blu Ray drives in Powermacs this year it would
A. Jack up the price horribly.
B. BTO option would help but until saturation happens you cannot guarantee that your disc will actually be playable on many other computers.
I sense a palpable excitement to Marzetta7's posts but the logical part of my brain knows that Blu Ray and HD-DVD come with more issues than DVD did. Yes their storage technology but if that is the context in which I view the products then I must include them along with other storage devices and again ask "why am i paying this exhorbitant amount?"
is it me or does it seem like no one really cares about this war anymore?
it feels like the whole thing just ran out of steam.
No the reality has sunk in that HD-DVD isn't going anywhere anytime soon and we're still waiting for Blu Ray. People now are happily watching HD-DVDs in the comfort of their own home. That was the endgame for consumers. HD content in their living rooms. How the CE companies slice up the market is of no consequence as long as content is available.