This is an unsupported rumor from a PS centric magazine, but I'm hopeful.
Eugene,
Thanks for the info. I just wanted to add by listing this article in reference to a possible $399 price tag for the PS3 (from a Xbox site, interesting,hmm...)...
The latest issue of PSM has revealed new details about the PlayStation 3. While CNN?s Chris Morris claims that Sony won?t announce a price for the PS3 at E3 2006, PSM says the PlayStation 3 is expected to sell for about $399 in the U.S., ?322 in Europe and ¥45,965 in Japan.
The magazine also claims that the console will come standard with a 60GB, non-removable hard drive.
For those who care about backward compatibility, PSM also revealed that PSO and PS2 games will run on the PlayStation 3 in 720, 1080i and 1080p.
The magazine also confirms some info we already knew. First, all games will come in Blu-ray Disc media and there won?t be regional lockouts. Second, the launch line-up, as well as the final design for the controller, will be revealed at next month?s E3 expo.
Finally, the console will launch in the first half of November with the PlayStation Network Platform service launching simultaneously with the console and offering free online gameplay.
Randy Nelson, the Executive Editor of PSM, contacted us to clarify some of the info posted in this article. Nelson was kind enough to provide the actual quotes frome the magazine. He explains:
First off, our story doesn't specifically list any price as confirmed. On our piece, we write: "According to Sony, the price of the system 'will not retail for under' about $425 Japanese yen. Since game consoles are typically a little cheaper here in the U.S. than in Japan, it's reasonable for us to expect to see a price tag of $399."
Secondly, we don't say that the 60GB hard disk drive is "non-removable"; specifically, we write: "Every PS3 will come standard with an upgradeable 60GB hard drive."
No. I'll eventually own a BD player. I feel that HD-DVD strikes a balance between manufacturers and consumer and content providers more deftly than Blu Ray. Blu Ray is a technical tour de force in an arena that really only requires a modest jump.
Blu-Ray is more flexible as the extra capacity gives you more options now and down the road. This is what we have been saying for the past six months. It's only a modest jump when you fail to consider future possibilities.
It's up to the content providers whether to use MPEG2 or MPEG4. For Sony/MGM they have chosen MPEG2 for the time being as it's easier.
Quote:
Media consumption should be centered around interoperability. I don't have to buy a sony tv because it's the only tv compatible with my comcast. That's because standards are generally good..especially when they don't lead back to one huge company.
That's an odd statement seeing as how Toshiba is virtually the only company pushing HD-DVD while pretty much every other manufacturer is supporting Blu-Ray.
You mean the same Cnet that brought us the crazy rumor that Apple would be switching to Intel?
A broken clock is right twice a day 1984.
Oh yeah check this out Digital Playground the Porn studio that announced support for Blu Ray....has changed.
Expect more "defections" as studios realize that Blu Ray is too damn expensive with HD-DVD providing the same quality.
Quote:
Blu-Ray is more flexible as the extra capacity gives you more options now and down the road. This is what we have been saying for the past six months. It's only a modest jump when you fail to consider future possibilities.
When I peer into the future I see the need for less datarate and not more. Sony's going to try and ship movies on SL discs to keep cost down. HD-DVD doesn't have pricing issues with DL discs and thus every HD-DVD shipped thus far is DL.
Quote:
It's up to the content providers whether to use MPEG2 or MPEG4. For Sony/MGM they have chosen MPEG2 for the time being as it's easier.
Nothing wrong with that but it negates the capacity advantage that BD-ROM has.
Quote:
That's an odd statement seeing as how Toshiba is virtually the only company pushing HD-DVD while pretty much every other manufacturer is supporting Blu-Ray.
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
HP
RCA
Fujitsu
LG
and Samsung if they grow some balls.
China hasn't even jumped in to the fray yet. Do I care that there are just 3 models available upon the initial launch? No I expect more vendors to jump in for the second generation which will be cheaper and probably more robust.
You know..the truth is the BDA has lost steam since CES 2006. Everyone talks about Blu Ray buzz and all that mess but right now blue laser HD in your home theater is coming from HD-DVD.
Just as they said they'd be they were first to market. Quality is impressive (Apollo 13 is getting raves) and it's priced right.
Currently right now the Playstation 3 is Blu Ray's ONLY chance of making up ground.
Funny how I've stuck to my guns against you guys and I'm still here in a good position and you guys are right were you were back in the day with "what ifs" hehehehe.
Oh yeah check this out Digital Playground the Porn studio that announced support for Blu Ray....has changed.
Expect more "defections" as studios realize that Blu Ray is too damn expensive with HD-DVD providing the same quality.
When I peer into the future I see the need for less datarate and not more. Sony's going to try and ship movies on SL discs to keep cost down. HD-DVD doesn't have pricing issues with DL discs and thus every HD-DVD shipped thus far is DL.
Nothing wrong with that but it negates the capacity advantage that BD-ROM has.
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
HP
RCA
Fujitsu
LG
and Samsung if they grow some balls.
China hasn't even jumped in to the fray yet. Do I care that there are just 3 models available upon the initial launch? No I expect more vendors to jump in for the second generation which will be cheaper and probably more robust.
You know..the truth is the BDA has lost steam since CES 2006. Everyone talks about Blu Ray buzz and all that mess but right now blue laser HD in your home theater is coming from HD-DVD.
Just as they said they'd be they were first to market. Quality is impressive (Apollo 13 is getting raves) and it's priced right.
Currently right now the Playstation 3 is Blu Ray's ONLY chance of making up ground.
Funny how I've stuck to my guns against you guys and I'm still here in a good position and you guys are right were you were back in the day with "what ifs" hehehehe. [/B]
Delusional to the end.
What you were trying to post on Digital Playground is busted. Please fix.
BTW, Playstation is NOT the "ONLY" chance Blu-ray has of making up ground, I think there are 150-160+ companies that would differ in your opinion, or more accurately, your delusion.
Well if my delusion is based on HD-DVD having time to market advantages as well as current pricing advantages then I'll happily keep my delusion.
Blu Ray has yet to prove why I should spend twice as much for a player. Studio support and a larger variety of manufacturers mean nothing if I have one solid and affordable option.
Hell I might as well buy a Xbox 360 now because it's a given that an HD-DVD option is coming for it.
Don't get me wrong now. I'm not just trying to be stubborn here. I like aspects of Blu Ray but I think it's a bit of overkill for what consumers want (low cost HD movies).
I support both platforms rights to exist. Let the market decide on what platform lives.
No. I'll eventually own a BD player. I feel that HD-DVD strikes a balance between manufacturers and consumer and content providers more deftly than Blu Ray. Blu Ray is a technical tour de force in an arena that really only requires a modest jump.
You don't even have an HDTV yet and you're talking about owning Blu-ray? I'm sorry, but it's so utterly ironic when you are clearly waving HD-DVD branded pom-poms while accusing Blu-ray supporters of being fanboys.
You don't even have an HDTV yet and you're talking about owning Blu-ray? I'm sorry, but it's so utterly ironic when you are clearly waving HD-DVD branded pom-poms while accusing Blu-ray supporters of being fanboys.
You really are delusional.
Roomate has a Philips 30in CRT. We share Comcast HD Cable with a DVR capice?
Nothing I've said has been delusional. When Blu Ray came out every geek ooohed and ahhhhed about the technical specs. However, what makes a geek a geek isn't common sense but rather a love for those things that are technical.
Blu Ray excites my inner geek but I come from a sales background and I know you can't sell on geekiness alone. Every feature has to be demonstrably beneficial in ways that consumers understand.
Thus it brings me to my point. "I" believe consumers want HD content for their HDTVs. I believe they want this at the cheapest price possible. I believe they have modest expectations such as high quality, no disc flipping and ease of use.
Both formats meet this need however if you ask the HD-DVD fan why they the format they speak about low cost and high quality for movies. If you ask the Blu Ray fan about why they like the format they talk about 200GB 8 layer discs and durabis coatings.
It's interesting to see the split. The geeks tend to gravitate towards the features of BR that don't necessarily improve the quality of the pre-recorded content. Sure there's an assumption that if you toss more bitrate at video it's quality will improve but no one has any empirical proof to back that assumption up.
The great divide is between pragmatism and fantasy. I only look at the formats value within the context of movie playback and distribution. If we changed to context to computer application I'd be in the BR camp because of its roadmap.
I assure you all not only and I'm not being delusional but I am operating from a standpoint that is succinct in its ideology. "What exactly do the people want and what product gets them the desired result?"
I think when it's all said and done many will agree that HD-DVD has been on the right path. Although I offer no animus towards Blu Ray other than a bit of lively debate.
Again you assume that there will be enough iPod video users to warrant using the space.
BD-ROM doesn't have endless space. You have multiple tracks of audio in multiple languages. You have BD-Java and extras. I really doubt they are going to add extra data that only a subset of users can access. I expect this idea to get vetoed unless Apple can make things a bit more lucrative.
I find it slightly amusing that you are concerned for Blu-Ray's capacity for solely AV purposes when HD-DVD is far more constrained and you fail to be concerned at all. How do you think they plan to fit these things?
On the topic of specific video for the iPod that strikes me as somewhat stupid. I'd assume it'd be easier to build the ability into the manage copy functions of AACS, portable media players are a big part of what that is aimed at.
Oh yeah check this out Digital Playground the Porn studio that announced support for Blu Ray....has changed.
Expect more "defections" as studios realize that Blu Ray is too damn expensive with HD-DVD providing the same quality.
Umm, I don't know where you get your information, but I have yet to see anything "official" concerning Digital Playground defecting as you so call it to HD DVD. The closest I've read to a defection would be in this article (yet it is far from official and far from the claimed defection)...
Quote:
HD-DVD Arrives in the U.S. Today
By Steve Javors
Wednesday, April 19, 2006
DALLAS, Tex. ? As the next-generation DVD format war heats up, Toshiba launched two models of its HD-DVD player in the U.S. today. The two players are priced at $499 and $799 when purchased through Best Buy, and only four movies are available.
A Best Buy spokesman in Texas was quoted as saying all HD-DVD equipment was sold out almost as soon as it hit the shelves.
The biggest boon to the survival of HD-DVD is that sales of high-definition TVs have skyrocketed. Users would need an HD TV to take advantage of all the functions on an HD-DVD disc. Experts predict the sales of HD TVs will eclipse that of standard TV sets.
Sony?s competing Blu-ray DVDs and hardware are expected to hit stores in May. Many movie studios and retailers are approaching the rival formats with a wary eye, but have publicly supported Blu-ray. Among them are Twentieth Century Fox, MGM, Warner Brothers and Paramount. Microsoft and Intel are among the big players supporting HD-DVD. Microsoft claims to support Toshiba?s format in its forthcoming Vista OS.
In the adult arena, Digital Playground announced earlier this year that it would release movies for Blu-ray, while Vivid CEO Steve Hirsch said his company would put out both Blu-ray and HD-DVD content.
?We feel that Blu-ray is superior technology, but we will support both formats,? Digital Playground publicist Adella O?Neal told XBIZ.
Online DVD rental service Netflix has quietly added HD-DVD choices to its site. The company didn?t make a formal announcement of the addition, but when asked by XBIZ, a spokesperson was quick to say that Netflix is already working on adding a section for Blu-ray movies.
Delusion, yes, when you claim that certain studios have "defected" which would indicate a complete abandonment of a certain format, which is just untrue to my knowledge. Nice try though. What is pretty funny here is that in past posts you verbosely argued how porn wasn't going to be a factor at all in this format, but you quickly turn on this when you CLAIM that Digital Playground has defected to HD DVD. Hmm interesting, if having content behind a format isn't all that important, why bother trying to post this information as if HD DVD has gained an upper hand or something? You contradict yourself by trying to satisfy your own HD DVD delusion.
Quote:
When I peer into the future I see the need for less datarate and not more. Sony's going to try and ship movies on SL discs to keep cost down. HD-DVD doesn't have pricing issues with DL discs and thus every HD-DVD shipped thus far is DL.
Nothing wrong with that but it negates the capacity advantage that BD-ROM has.
Pure crap. How do you know what Sony is going to do to keep costs down? It is amazing how much FUD you throw out concerning Blu-ray (No 50GB discs, No 100 GB discs, More expensive Blu-ray discs, No managed copy, etc) but all your claims have yet to be substantiated. This latest FUD, that somehow Sony will only be releasing single-layered discs to keep costs down, again is not substantiated. Case in point with my EMPHASIS added...
Sony Announces Second Day-and-Date Blu-Ray Release with 'Ultraviolet'
Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 09:03 PM ET
Tags: Disc Announcements, Sony (all tags)
Sony has announced their second Blu-Ray disc title to debut simultaneously with its standard DVD release.
On June 27, the studio will unleash the recent Milla Jovovich action-thriller 'Ultraviolet' in a new Unrated Director's Cut. No supplemental features or disc specs have yet to be released, though the film will be presented in its original 2.35:1 theatrical aspect ratio, and as with all of Sony's current Blu-Ray releases, will be encoded on an BD-50 dual-layer disc at full 1080p video resolution.
The release is the second day-and-date with DVD Blu-Ray release, following 'Underworld: Evolution,' which Sony will debut on June 6.
Sony has priced the disc at its new release MSRP of $38.95. The latest details for 'Ultraviolet' have been added to our comprehensive Blu-Ray Release Schedule.
Do my eyes dare deceive me??? Does that say a 50 GB (dual-layered) disc for Ultraviolet? Indeed it does, and yet again, you have been found to be just spewing FUD as usual.
Moreover, dual-layered 50 GB discs will be here on April 28th according to Panasonic...
Furthermore, concerning your so called strong support for HD DVD...
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
HP - Also supports Blu-ray
RCA
Fujitsu - Also supports Blu-ray
LG - Also supports Blu-ray
Samsung [if they grow some balls.] - Have major cahoneys for supporting Blu-ray exclusively, they just don't want to be caught getting castrated by supporting HD DVD.
Quote:
China hasn't even jumped in to the fray yet. Do I care that there are just 3 models available upon the initial launch? No I expect more vendors to jump in for the second generation which will be cheaper and probably more robust.
You know..the truth is the BDA has lost steam since CES 2006. Everyone talks about Blu Ray buzz and all that mess but right now blue laser HD in your home theater is coming from HD-DVD.
Of course you don't care, delusional people usually don't. Regarding China, you keep bringing this up, but I think they're to busy trying to support EVD or FVD which is of course DOA. When is China going to chime in there Murch? Moreover, from all the articles I've read, the BDA is taking the steamboat to Tuna town, full steam ahead. Here is an article regarding Pioneer's recently released Blu-ray drive...
"PC World tests show that the Pioneer BDR-101A drive's performance and capacity are impressive."
I could go on and on about the buzz on Blu-ray, so I don't know where your getting this so called "truth."
Quote:
Just as they said they'd be they were first to market. Quality is impressive (Apollo 13 is getting raves) and it's priced right.
Currently right now the Playstation 3 is Blu Ray's ONLY chance of making up ground.
Funny how I've stuck to my guns against you guys and I'm still here in a good position and you guys are right were you were back in the day with "what ifs" hehehehe. [/B]
What's funny is the delusional self-proclaimed good position you think you are in. What-ifs? Hahahha. What if Blu-ray doesn't 50 GB discs? They do. What if Blu-ray discs are going to cost the consumer tons more than HD DVD? They don't, they're the same price. What if Blu-ray doesn't have MMC? They've already stated they will. The only one in the What If market is you man, the What If FUD market. You claimed to be a realist in an earlier post, but I can't help but see a pessimist with all things Blu-ray. Did Sony drop you on your head as a child or something? Seriously, time to let the grudge go.
Moreover, you claimed the same quality from HD DVD as Blu-ray but that is untrue as well. HD DVD might have the potential to play full 1080P output on their discs, but we all know that HD DVD players are limited to 1080i output only. Not the same as Blu-ray player's 1080P output. Again, nice try. As far as raves go, there hasn't been much regarding HD DVD. Just the opposite actually. I've already posted the CNet article on why HD DVD falls short, and I've read many more. All I'm saying is that I'm reading a lot of negative information as it pertains to HD DVD's launch and performance.
Quote:
Blu Ray has yet to prove why I should spend twice as much for a player. Studio support and a larger variety of manufacturers mean nothing if I have one solid and affordable option.
We've already discussed why this is such a poor argument. It is an early adoption market bud. Price will be higher, it is an economic guarantee. If studio support means nothing, why did you throw up the old Digital Playground defection CLAIM (claim, because what you stated was not completely true)? That's has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Content sells man, and with it so does hardware with the majority of IT and consumer electronics companies providing the players. Sure it means nothing, when your _____. You fill in the blank. (Hint: Begins with D and ends with elusional.)
Moreover, you claimed the same quality from HD DVD as Blu-ray but that is untrue as well. HD DVD might have the potential to play full 1080P output on their discs, but we all know that HD DVD players are limited to 1080i output only. Not the same as Blu-ray player's 1080P output. Again, nice try. As far as raves go, there hasn't been much regarding HD DVD. Just the opposite actually. I've already posted the CNet article on why HD DVD falls short, and I've read many more. All I'm saying is that I'm reading a lot of negative information as it pertains to HD DVD's launch and performance.
I just saw a HD-DVD playing on a Westinghous 42" 1080P screen at the Tukwila Best Buy. Looked great. For the love of God please look up the definition of "Inverse Telecine" so you stop looking like an idiot. Hint if the original content is 1080p/24 then IT reconstructs the image back into a progressive image for dispay. Until you can show me a TV that can take 1080p/24 or 1080p/48 there will always be scaling involved.
You've posted a Cnet article because you lack any kind of foresight into what you're arguing about. Half the Cnet article pertained to issues unrelated to HD-DVD as a format. The audio issues can be explained but I have neither the time nor inclination to educate you on this as well.
There will be little difference qualitatively between HD-DVD and Blu Ray. The extra storage and the 1080p outputs are merely superfluous specs. Thus I believe the platform that wins is the one that can maintain
1. Lower hardware and media pricing
2. The most studio support.
Blu Ray definitely has the lead on the latter and is behind in the former. Nothing I've said has off. I haven't spoken in absolutes. I know 50GB discs are coming. My point is they are expensive and if 25GB will do that's what studios will likely use.
Digital Playground incorrectly labeled their WMV9 disc as HDDVD which is incorrect. Doesn't really matter though because truly the internet is the way to watch porn IMO. Instant gratification ...LOL.
Moreover, you claimed the same quality from HD DVD as Blu-ray but that is untrue as well. HD DVD might have the potential to play full 1080P output on their discs, but we all know that HD DVD players are limited to 1080i output only. Not the same as Blu-ray player's 1080P output.
For the love of God please look up the definition of "Inverse Telecine" so you stop looking like an idiot. Hint if the original content is 1080p/24 then IT reconstructs the image back into a progressive image for dispay.
Why would it need to reconstruct progressive frames if it's progressive content to begin with? I know what inverse telecine is and I can't imagine what it would have to do with 24fps film source material being played back on 24 or 48fps HDTVs.
p.s. Just out of curiousity, I checked out your blog and I see it's as contradictory as everything else. You label h.264 as a "hot" codec there yet over at Macworld News, you wrote that VC-1 was "cleaning h.264's clock." So which is it -- hot or not?
Inverse Telecine is done because very few HDTV will accept HD progressive inputs. The Sony "Ruby" 1080p projector will accept a 1080p/48 which is great for film because when your scan rate is a factor of 24 you eliminate the judder that happens when you use 3:2 pulldown (which duplicates frames to keep things in sync with TVs that want factors of 30).
Inverse Telecine allows you to set flags in the video so that the interlaced output can be reconstructed "without" the need to duplicate frames as in basic 3:2 pulldown. It doesn't eliminate judder because you still have the 24p 30p sync issue s with most inputs. But you shouldn't have screwed up frames causing artifacts. Most digital gear with higher quality deinterlacing support this.
Thanks for checking my blog. I guess I'll get around to updating it. Well don't get me wrong h.264 is pretty damn cool stuff. I thought that HD-DVD and Blu Ray would be jumping to it after MPEG2 but now I have my doubts and the reason why is the processing power needed. When h.264 hit you needed roughly 8x the cpu power for encode as compared to MPEG2 encoding. Decode cost you roughly 4x the cpu power.
That's not bad for the quality increase but from what I've read about VC-1 the cpu hit there is lighter and thus every HD-DVD release to date has been in VC-1. H.264 may be the slightly superior codec but until it becomes a bit more efficient with the CPU in the encode/decode process it's going to take a back seat to VC-1 and MPEG2.
On another subject I found out that the HD-A1 Toshiba HD-DVD uses the Broadcom BCM7411d controller. It seems to be a nice controller and it probably one of the reasons why a $499 pricepoint could be made. However I checked out Amtel's stuff and in addition to their wonder SoC chip that handles everything optical
At any rate I think you're going to see IC consolidation happen very quickly bringing the cost of both formats down. The Amtel IC for diodes is really going to help Blu Ray because its so vastly different OPU needs.
Inverse Telecine is done because very few HDTV will accept HD progressive inputs. The Sony "Ruby" 1080p projector will accept a 1080p/48 which is great for film because when your scan rate is a factor of 24 you eliminate the judder that happens when you use 3:2 pulldown (which duplicates frames to keep things in sync with TVs that want factors of 30).
Inverse Telecine allows you to set flags in the video so that the interlaced output can be reconstructed "without" the need to duplicate frames as in basic 3:2 pulldown. It doesn't eliminate judder because you still have the 24p 30p sync issue s with most inputs. But you shouldn't have screwed up frames causing artifacts. Most digital gear with higher quality deinterlacing support this.
My mistake. I thought you were writing about 24fps on a 1080p/24 device. Still, 24fps devices are probably not long in coming, considering the changeover to an all-digital stream from HD player through HDMI to the displays means these home theater systems are becoming essentially special-purpose computers, and we all know computers and their displays can handle any framerate. 1080p/24 is included in the HDMI specification, after all. However, 1080i/48 is not, AFAIK, which means 1080i will always be a compromise at a telecined 60fps.
Powermac G5s aren't meant to live in your lounge room. The noise of the 360 is excessive for where people are meant to be placing it. There's something to be said for good design and a die shrink in 2007 doesn't really remove the problem or the error. That's no different to Sony deciding to redesign the boomerang, although at least that poor design will never see the light of day, unlike the first Xbox's original controller.
Comments
Originally posted by Eugene
Incoming damage control...possibly.
- $399
- November release
- 60 GB HDD (XBox 360 = 20 GB)
- Free online multiplayer from Sony
- Backward compatible with all PS/PS2 games
This is an unsupported rumor from a PS centric magazine, but I'm hopeful.
Eugene,
Thanks for the info. I just wanted to add by listing this article in reference to a possible $399 price tag for the PS3 (from a Xbox site, interesting,hmm...)...
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/10795/...etails-Emerge/
New PlayStation 3 Details Emerge
By: César A. Berardini - "Cesar"
Apr. 26th, 2006 8:14 am
The latest issue of PSM has revealed new details about the PlayStation 3. While CNN?s Chris Morris claims that Sony won?t announce a price for the PS3 at E3 2006, PSM says the PlayStation 3 is expected to sell for about $399 in the U.S., ?322 in Europe and ¥45,965 in Japan.
The magazine also claims that the console will come standard with a 60GB, non-removable hard drive.
For those who care about backward compatibility, PSM also revealed that PSO and PS2 games will run on the PlayStation 3 in 720, 1080i and 1080p.
The magazine also confirms some info we already knew. First, all games will come in Blu-ray Disc media and there won?t be regional lockouts. Second, the launch line-up, as well as the final design for the controller, will be revealed at next month?s E3 expo.
Finally, the console will launch in the first half of November with the PlayStation Network Platform service launching simultaneously with the console and offering free online gameplay.
Thanks ZBOX.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE
Randy Nelson, the Executive Editor of PSM, contacted us to clarify some of the info posted in this article. Nelson was kind enough to provide the actual quotes frome the magazine. He explains:
First off, our story doesn't specifically list any price as confirmed. On our piece, we write: "According to Sony, the price of the system 'will not retail for under' about $425 Japanese yen. Since game consoles are typically a little cheaper here in the U.S. than in Japan, it's reasonable for us to expect to see a price tag of $399."
Secondly, we don't say that the 60GB hard disk drive is "non-removable"; specifically, we write: "Every PS3 will come standard with an upgradeable 60GB hard drive."
Originally posted by hmurchison
Marzetta7
Quoting Cnet of all places? That's embarrassing.
You mean the same Cnet that brought us the crazy rumor that Apple would be switching to Intel?
Originally posted by hmurchison
No. I'll eventually own a BD player. I feel that HD-DVD strikes a balance between manufacturers and consumer and content providers more deftly than Blu Ray. Blu Ray is a technical tour de force in an arena that really only requires a modest jump.
Blu-Ray is more flexible as the extra capacity gives you more options now and down the road. This is what we have been saying for the past six months. It's only a modest jump when you fail to consider future possibilities.
It's up to the content providers whether to use MPEG2 or MPEG4. For Sony/MGM they have chosen MPEG2 for the time being as it's easier.
Media consumption should be centered around interoperability. I don't have to buy a sony tv because it's the only tv compatible with my comcast. That's because standards are generally good..especially when they don't lead back to one huge company.
That's an odd statement seeing as how Toshiba is virtually the only company pushing HD-DVD while pretty much every other manufacturer is supporting Blu-Ray.
TDK: Ok, we're done with the 200GB recordable Blu-Ray
Originally posted by 1984
You mean the same Cnet that brought us the crazy rumor that Apple would be switching to Intel?
A broken clock is right twice a day 1984.
Oh yeah check this out Digital Playground the Porn studio that announced support for Blu Ray....has changed.
Expect more "defections" as studios realize that Blu Ray is too damn expensive with HD-DVD providing the same quality.
Blu-Ray is more flexible as the extra capacity gives you more options now and down the road. This is what we have been saying for the past six months. It's only a modest jump when you fail to consider future possibilities.
When I peer into the future I see the need for less datarate and not more. Sony's going to try and ship movies on SL discs to keep cost down. HD-DVD doesn't have pricing issues with DL discs and thus every HD-DVD shipped thus far is DL.
It's up to the content providers whether to use MPEG2 or MPEG4. For Sony/MGM they have chosen MPEG2 for the time being as it's easier.
Nothing wrong with that but it negates the capacity advantage that BD-ROM has.
That's an odd statement seeing as how Toshiba is virtually the only company pushing HD-DVD while pretty much every other manufacturer is supporting Blu-Ray.
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
HP
RCA
Fujitsu
LG
and Samsung if they grow some balls.
China hasn't even jumped in to the fray yet. Do I care that there are just 3 models available upon the initial launch? No I expect more vendors to jump in for the second generation which will be cheaper and probably more robust.
You know..the truth is the BDA has lost steam since CES 2006. Everyone talks about Blu Ray buzz and all that mess but right now blue laser HD in your home theater is coming from HD-DVD.
Just as they said they'd be they were first to market. Quality is impressive (Apollo 13 is getting raves) and it's priced right.
Currently right now the Playstation 3 is Blu Ray's ONLY chance of making up ground.
Funny how I've stuck to my guns against you guys and I'm still here in a good position and you guys are right were you were back in the day with "what ifs" hehehehe.
Originally posted by hmurchison
A broken clock is right twice a day 1984.
Oh yeah check this out Digital Playground the Porn studio that announced support for Blu Ray....has changed.
Expect more "defections" as studios realize that Blu Ray is too damn expensive with HD-DVD providing the same quality.
When I peer into the future I see the need for less datarate and not more. Sony's going to try and ship movies on SL discs to keep cost down. HD-DVD doesn't have pricing issues with DL discs and thus every HD-DVD shipped thus far is DL.
Nothing wrong with that but it negates the capacity advantage that BD-ROM has.
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
HP
RCA
Fujitsu
LG
and Samsung if they grow some balls.
China hasn't even jumped in to the fray yet. Do I care that there are just 3 models available upon the initial launch? No I expect more vendors to jump in for the second generation which will be cheaper and probably more robust.
You know..the truth is the BDA has lost steam since CES 2006. Everyone talks about Blu Ray buzz and all that mess but right now blue laser HD in your home theater is coming from HD-DVD.
Just as they said they'd be they were first to market. Quality is impressive (Apollo 13 is getting raves) and it's priced right.
Currently right now the Playstation 3 is Blu Ray's ONLY chance of making up ground.
Funny how I've stuck to my guns against you guys and I'm still here in a good position and you guys are right were you were back in the day with "what ifs" hehehehe. [/B]
Delusional to the end.
What you were trying to post on Digital Playground is busted. Please fix.
BTW, Playstation is NOT the "ONLY" chance Blu-ray has of making up ground, I think there are 150-160+ companies that would differ in your opinion, or more accurately, your delusion.
Blu Ray has yet to prove why I should spend twice as much for a player. Studio support and a larger variety of manufacturers mean nothing if I have one solid and affordable option.
Hell I might as well buy a Xbox 360 now because it's a given that an HD-DVD option is coming for it.
Don't get me wrong now. I'm not just trying to be stubborn here. I like aspects of Blu Ray but I think it's a bit of overkill for what consumers want (low cost HD movies).
I support both platforms rights to exist. Let the market decide on what platform lives.
Originally posted by hmurchison
No. I'll eventually own a BD player. I feel that HD-DVD strikes a balance between manufacturers and consumer and content providers more deftly than Blu Ray. Blu Ray is a technical tour de force in an arena that really only requires a modest jump.
You don't even have an HDTV yet and you're talking about owning Blu-ray? I'm sorry, but it's so utterly ironic when you are clearly waving HD-DVD branded pom-poms while accusing Blu-ray supporters of being fanboys.
You really are delusional.
Originally posted by Eugene
You don't even have an HDTV yet and you're talking about owning Blu-ray? I'm sorry, but it's so utterly ironic when you are clearly waving HD-DVD branded pom-poms while accusing Blu-ray supporters of being fanboys.
You really are delusional.
Roomate has a Philips 30in CRT. We share Comcast HD Cable with a DVR capice?
Nothing I've said has been delusional. When Blu Ray came out every geek ooohed and ahhhhed about the technical specs. However, what makes a geek a geek isn't common sense but rather a love for those things that are technical.
Blu Ray excites my inner geek but I come from a sales background and I know you can't sell on geekiness alone. Every feature has to be demonstrably beneficial in ways that consumers understand.
Thus it brings me to my point. "I" believe consumers want HD content for their HDTVs. I believe they want this at the cheapest price possible. I believe they have modest expectations such as high quality, no disc flipping and ease of use.
Both formats meet this need however if you ask the HD-DVD fan why they the format they speak about low cost and high quality for movies. If you ask the Blu Ray fan about why they like the format they talk about 200GB 8 layer discs and durabis coatings.
It's interesting to see the split. The geeks tend to gravitate towards the features of BR that don't necessarily improve the quality of the pre-recorded content. Sure there's an assumption that if you toss more bitrate at video it's quality will improve but no one has any empirical proof to back that assumption up.
The great divide is between pragmatism and fantasy. I only look at the formats value within the context of movie playback and distribution. If we changed to context to computer application I'd be in the BR camp because of its roadmap.
I assure you all not only and I'm not being delusional but I am operating from a standpoint that is succinct in its ideology. "What exactly do the people want and what product gets them the desired result?"
I think when it's all said and done many will agree that HD-DVD has been on the right path. Although I offer no animus towards Blu Ray other than a bit of lively debate.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Again you assume that there will be enough iPod video users to warrant using the space.
BD-ROM doesn't have endless space. You have multiple tracks of audio in multiple languages. You have BD-Java and extras. I really doubt they are going to add extra data that only a subset of users can access. I expect this idea to get vetoed unless Apple can make things a bit more lucrative.
I find it slightly amusing that you are concerned for Blu-Ray's capacity for solely AV purposes when HD-DVD is far more constrained and you fail to be concerned at all. How do you think they plan to fit these things?
On the topic of specific video for the iPod that strikes me as somewhat stupid. I'd assume it'd be easier to build the ability into the manage copy functions of AACS, portable media players are a big part of what that is aimed at.
so no we have to really bad blunders
1. naming your console "wii"
2. boomerang controller
i still believe the 360 had the most solid package at E3 and they still do now
Originally posted by Elixir
nintendo just released their official next gen console name "Wii"
so no we have to really bad blunders
1. naming your console "wii"
2. boomerang controller
i still believe the 360 had the most solid package at E3 and they still do now
I think that wii is fine, and the boomerang vibrating controller will be popular with the ladies.
Originally posted by hmurchison
A broken clock is right twice a day 1984.
Oh yeah check this out Digital Playground the Porn studio that announced support for Blu Ray....has changed.
Expect more "defections" as studios realize that Blu Ray is too damn expensive with HD-DVD providing the same quality.
Umm, I don't know where you get your information, but I have yet to see anything "official" concerning Digital Playground defecting as you so call it to HD DVD. The closest I've read to a defection would be in this article (yet it is far from official and far from the claimed defection)...
HD-DVD Arrives in the U.S. Today
By Steve Javors
Wednesday, April 19, 2006
DALLAS, Tex. ? As the next-generation DVD format war heats up, Toshiba launched two models of its HD-DVD player in the U.S. today. The two players are priced at $499 and $799 when purchased through Best Buy, and only four movies are available.
A Best Buy spokesman in Texas was quoted as saying all HD-DVD equipment was sold out almost as soon as it hit the shelves.
The biggest boon to the survival of HD-DVD is that sales of high-definition TVs have skyrocketed. Users would need an HD TV to take advantage of all the functions on an HD-DVD disc. Experts predict the sales of HD TVs will eclipse that of standard TV sets.
Sony?s competing Blu-ray DVDs and hardware are expected to hit stores in May. Many movie studios and retailers are approaching the rival formats with a wary eye, but have publicly supported Blu-ray. Among them are Twentieth Century Fox, MGM, Warner Brothers and Paramount. Microsoft and Intel are among the big players supporting HD-DVD. Microsoft claims to support Toshiba?s format in its forthcoming Vista OS.
In the adult arena, Digital Playground announced earlier this year that it would release movies for Blu-ray, while Vivid CEO Steve Hirsch said his company would put out both Blu-ray and HD-DVD content.
?We feel that Blu-ray is superior technology, but we will support both formats,? Digital Playground publicist Adella O?Neal told XBIZ.
Online DVD rental service Netflix has quietly added HD-DVD choices to its site. The company didn?t make a formal announcement of the addition, but when asked by XBIZ, a spokesperson was quick to say that Netflix is already working on adding a section for Blu-ray movies.
Delusion, yes, when you claim that certain studios have "defected" which would indicate a complete abandonment of a certain format, which is just untrue to my knowledge. Nice try though. What is pretty funny here is that in past posts you verbosely argued how porn wasn't going to be a factor at all in this format, but you quickly turn on this when you CLAIM that Digital Playground has defected to HD DVD. Hmm interesting, if having content behind a format isn't all that important, why bother trying to post this information as if HD DVD has gained an upper hand or something? You contradict yourself by trying to satisfy your own HD DVD delusion.
When I peer into the future I see the need for less datarate and not more. Sony's going to try and ship movies on SL discs to keep cost down. HD-DVD doesn't have pricing issues with DL discs and thus every HD-DVD shipped thus far is DL.
Nothing wrong with that but it negates the capacity advantage that BD-ROM has.
Pure crap. How do you know what Sony is going to do to keep costs down? It is amazing how much FUD you throw out concerning Blu-ray (No 50GB discs, No 100 GB discs, More expensive Blu-ray discs, No managed copy, etc) but all your claims have yet to be substantiated. This latest FUD, that somehow Sony will only be releasing single-layered discs to keep costs down, again is not substantiated. Case in point with my EMPHASIS added...
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...Ultraviolet/35
Sony Announces Second Day-and-Date Blu-Ray Release with 'Ultraviolet'
Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 09:03 PM ET
Tags: Disc Announcements, Sony (all tags)
Sony has announced their second Blu-Ray disc title to debut simultaneously with its standard DVD release.
On June 27, the studio will unleash the recent Milla Jovovich action-thriller 'Ultraviolet' in a new Unrated Director's Cut. No supplemental features or disc specs have yet to be released, though the film will be presented in its original 2.35:1 theatrical aspect ratio, and as with all of Sony's current Blu-Ray releases, will be encoded on an BD-50 dual-layer disc at full 1080p video resolution.
The release is the second day-and-date with DVD Blu-Ray release, following 'Underworld: Evolution,' which Sony will debut on June 6.
Sony has priced the disc at its new release MSRP of $38.95. The latest details for 'Ultraviolet' have been added to our comprehensive Blu-Ray Release Schedule.
Do my eyes dare deceive me??? Does that say a 50 GB (dual-layered) disc for Ultraviolet? Indeed it does, and yet again, you have been found to be just spewing FUD as usual.
Moreover, dual-layered 50 GB discs will be here on April 28th according to Panasonic...
http://www.panasonic.co.jp/corp/news...n060421-5.html
Same thing from TDK for this year, 50 GB discs...
http://www.tdk.com/procommon/press/a...corp&recid=115
Catch my drift...yes delusional.
Furthermore, concerning your so called strong support for HD DVD...
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
HP - Also supports Blu-ray
RCA
Fujitsu - Also supports Blu-ray
LG - Also supports Blu-ray
Samsung [if they grow some balls.] - Have major cahoneys for supporting Blu-ray exclusively, they just don't want to be caught getting castrated by supporting HD DVD.
China hasn't even jumped in to the fray yet. Do I care that there are just 3 models available upon the initial launch? No I expect more vendors to jump in for the second generation which will be cheaper and probably more robust.
You know..the truth is the BDA has lost steam since CES 2006. Everyone talks about Blu Ray buzz and all that mess but right now blue laser HD in your home theater is coming from HD-DVD.
Of course you don't care, delusional people usually don't. Regarding China, you keep bringing this up, but I think they're to busy trying to support EVD or FVD which is of course DOA. When is China going to chime in there Murch? Moreover, from all the articles I've read, the BDA is taking the steamboat to Tuna town, full steam ahead. Here is an article regarding Pioneer's recently released Blu-ray drive...
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...,125581,00.asp
"PC World tests show that the Pioneer BDR-101A drive's performance and capacity are impressive."
I could go on and on about the buzz on Blu-ray, so I don't know where your getting this so called "truth."
Just as they said they'd be they were first to market. Quality is impressive (Apollo 13 is getting raves) and it's priced right.
Currently right now the Playstation 3 is Blu Ray's ONLY chance of making up ground.
Funny how I've stuck to my guns against you guys and I'm still here in a good position and you guys are right were you were back in the day with "what ifs" hehehehe. [/B]
What's funny is the delusional self-proclaimed good position you think you are in. What-ifs? Hahahha. What if Blu-ray doesn't 50 GB discs? They do. What if Blu-ray discs are going to cost the consumer tons more than HD DVD? They don't, they're the same price. What if Blu-ray doesn't have MMC? They've already stated they will. The only one in the What If market is you man, the What If FUD market. You claimed to be a realist in an earlier post, but I can't help but see a pessimist with all things Blu-ray. Did Sony drop you on your head as a child or something? Seriously, time to let the grudge go.
Moreover, you claimed the same quality from HD DVD as Blu-ray but that is untrue as well. HD DVD might have the potential to play full 1080P output on their discs, but we all know that HD DVD players are limited to 1080i output only. Not the same as Blu-ray player's 1080P output. Again, nice try. As far as raves go, there hasn't been much regarding HD DVD. Just the opposite actually. I've already posted the CNet article on why HD DVD falls short, and I've read many more. All I'm saying is that I'm reading a lot of negative information as it pertains to HD DVD's launch and performance.
Blu Ray has yet to prove why I should spend twice as much for a player. Studio support and a larger variety of manufacturers mean nothing if I have one solid and affordable option.
We've already discussed why this is such a poor argument. It is an early adoption market bud. Price will be higher, it is an economic guarantee. If studio support means nothing, why did you throw up the old Digital Playground defection CLAIM (claim, because what you stated was not completely true)? That's has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Content sells man, and with it so does hardware with the majority of IT and consumer electronics companies providing the players. Sure it means nothing, when your _____. You fill in the blank. (Hint: Begins with D and ends with elusional.)
Originally posted by Elixir
nintendo just released their official next gen console name "Wii"
so no we have to really bad blunders
1. naming your console "wii"
2. boomerang controller
i still believe the 360 had the most solid package at E3 and they still do now
And the 360 was fine if you don't mind the sound of a jet plane in your lounge room. They are really excessively noisy.
Moreover, you claimed the same quality from HD DVD as Blu-ray but that is untrue as well. HD DVD might have the potential to play full 1080P output on their discs, but we all know that HD DVD players are limited to 1080i output only. Not the same as Blu-ray player's 1080P output. Again, nice try. As far as raves go, there hasn't been much regarding HD DVD. Just the opposite actually. I've already posted the CNet article on why HD DVD falls short, and I've read many more. All I'm saying is that I'm reading a lot of negative information as it pertains to HD DVD's launch and performance.
I just saw a HD-DVD playing on a Westinghous 42" 1080P screen at the Tukwila Best Buy. Looked great. For the love of God please look up the definition of "Inverse Telecine" so you stop looking like an idiot. Hint if the original content is 1080p/24 then IT reconstructs the image back into a progressive image for dispay. Until you can show me a TV that can take 1080p/24 or 1080p/48 there will always be scaling involved.
You've posted a Cnet article because you lack any kind of foresight into what you're arguing about. Half the Cnet article pertained to issues unrelated to HD-DVD as a format. The audio issues can be explained but I have neither the time nor inclination to educate you on this as well.
There will be little difference qualitatively between HD-DVD and Blu Ray. The extra storage and the 1080p outputs are merely superfluous specs. Thus I believe the platform that wins is the one that can maintain
1. Lower hardware and media pricing
2. The most studio support.
Blu Ray definitely has the lead on the latter and is behind in the former. Nothing I've said has off. I haven't spoken in absolutes. I know 50GB discs are coming. My point is they are expensive and if 25GB will do that's what studios will likely use.
Digital Playground incorrectly labeled their WMV9 disc as HDDVD which is incorrect. Doesn't really matter though because truly the internet is the way to watch porn IMO. Instant gratification ...LOL.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Originally posted by marzetta7
Moreover, you claimed the same quality from HD DVD as Blu-ray but that is untrue as well. HD DVD might have the potential to play full 1080P output on their discs, but we all know that HD DVD players are limited to 1080i output only. Not the same as Blu-ray player's 1080P output.
For the love of God please look up the definition of "Inverse Telecine" so you stop looking like an idiot. Hint if the original content is 1080p/24 then IT reconstructs the image back into a progressive image for dispay.
Why would it need to reconstruct progressive frames if it's progressive content to begin with? I know what inverse telecine is and I can't imagine what it would have to do with 24fps film source material being played back on 24 or 48fps HDTVs.
p.s. Just out of curiousity, I checked out your blog and I see it's as contradictory as everything else. You label h.264 as a "hot" codec there yet over at Macworld News, you wrote that VC-1 was "cleaning h.264's clock." So which is it -- hot or not?
Inverse Telecine allows you to set flags in the video so that the interlaced output can be reconstructed "without" the need to duplicate frames as in basic 3:2 pulldown. It doesn't eliminate judder because you still have the 24p 30p sync issue s with most inputs. But you shouldn't have screwed up frames causing artifacts. Most digital gear with higher quality deinterlacing support this.
Thanks for checking my blog. I guess I'll get around to updating it. Well don't get me wrong h.264 is pretty damn cool stuff. I thought that HD-DVD and Blu Ray would be jumping to it after MPEG2 but now I have my doubts and the reason why is the processing power needed. When h.264 hit you needed roughly 8x the cpu power for encode as compared to MPEG2 encoding. Decode cost you roughly 4x the cpu power.
That's not bad for the quality increase but from what I've read about VC-1 the cpu hit there is lighter and thus every HD-DVD release to date has been in VC-1. H.264 may be the slightly superior codec but until it becomes a bit more efficient with the CPU in the encode/decode process it's going to take a back seat to VC-1 and MPEG2.
On another subject I found out that the HD-A1 Toshiba HD-DVD uses the Broadcom BCM7411d controller. It seems to be a nice controller and it probably one of the reasons why a $499 pricepoint could be made. However I checked out Amtel's stuff and in addition to their wonder SoC chip that handles everything optical
Amtel's All Format DVD
On April 10 the announce a new IC that covers all major formats. CDs 650nm, BD/HD-DVDs 405nm and DVDs 780nm diodes.
Broadcom just announced support for Dolby Digital Plus and aacplus in their 74xx lineup
which handles MPEG2/VC-1/h.264
At any rate I think you're going to see IC consolidation happen very quickly bringing the cost of both formats down. The Amtel IC for diodes is really going to help Blu Ray because its so vastly different OPU needs.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Inverse Telecine is done because very few HDTV will accept HD progressive inputs. The Sony "Ruby" 1080p projector will accept a 1080p/48 which is great for film because when your scan rate is a factor of 24 you eliminate the judder that happens when you use 3:2 pulldown (which duplicates frames to keep things in sync with TVs that want factors of 30).
Inverse Telecine allows you to set flags in the video so that the interlaced output can be reconstructed "without" the need to duplicate frames as in basic 3:2 pulldown. It doesn't eliminate judder because you still have the 24p 30p sync issue s with most inputs. But you shouldn't have screwed up frames causing artifacts. Most digital gear with higher quality deinterlacing support this.
My mistake. I thought you were writing about 24fps on a 1080p/24 device. Still, 24fps devices are probably not long in coming, considering the changeover to an all-digital stream from HD player through HDMI to the displays means these home theater systems are becoming essentially special-purpose computers, and we all know computers and their displays can handle any framerate. 1080p/24 is included in the HDMI specification, after all. However, 1080i/48 is not, AFAIK, which means 1080i will always be a compromise at a telecined 60fps.
Originally posted by Telomar
And the 360 was fine if you don't mind the sound of a jet plane in your lounge room. They are really excessively noisy.
i guess you dont own a powermac g5
microsoft has already announced they were switching to 65nm chips come 2007. that should help the heat and noise issues