After Apple legal threats, Microsoft quietly changes ads

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MH01 View Post


    Kinda sad actually, Apple has been bashing M$ for years and years with their marketing,




    yes and no. Apple created an ad campaign around the most heard complaints about Windows running machines. they didn't add that some of their machines have problems too but there's no rule saying they have to.



    Quote:

    As one person has stated in this thread already, does not matter if they adjust the price in the ad, in the end PCs are just cheaper.



    which is part of what makes Turner look like a total douche by spinning things the way he did



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    then the girl says, hey wait I can't play left4dead and throws it out the window going 60mph



    ah but the challenge was to find a machine to do what you want. if the girl is a gamer then she'd get a gaming machine. which yes, likely would be a PC.
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  • Reply 62 of 105
    Chronster - the original ad may not have been a lie at the time, but it was certainly deceptive and misleading. It showed a 13" Macbook, had her comment on the Macbook, and then showed the price for a 15" Macbook. In addition, the price tag for the 15" Macbook was resting on top of another pricetag - you couldn't see the name or specs for the other product - all you could see was the price, which, IIRC, was $2,499. So, they showed a 13" macbook, had her comment on the price being high, and showed the pricetag for a far more expensive machine - and even then, the price shown included two values, one higher than the next, for no good reason. Sleazy advertising, at best. One might expect better from a "market leader" - but then, you'd be expecting better from Microsoft, and so you'd be a fool.



    Second: I'm with Jerseymac about recruiting the actors to talk about their experiences after they got the PCs home - but there's a problem. When the first Lauren ad came out, she was interviewed by some tech reporting outlet (I forget which), and it was revealed that Microsoft had her sign a non-disclosure agreement. I suspect part of her contract is a seriously iron-clad non-compete clause forbidding her to advertise anything Apple-related, talk about anything involving a computer, etc. But I agree - I'd love to see the follow-up ad asking the question: "So, how's that windows computer working for you in your career as an aspiring film maker? Can it "cut video" for you?"
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  • Reply 63 of 105
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    1. When he says he won't stop running the ads, he's talking about running the laptop hunter ads. Not the ads that contain the old pricing from Apple.



    OK now I understand why you keep getting things wrong. You don't appear to know the facts.

    The offending commercial is part of the "hunters" campaign. It's called "Lauren and Sue". http://adage.com/article?article_id=138117







    Quote:

    Even if they WANTED to run those old ads, putting a disclaimer at the start showing when the commercial was filmed would cover them.



    One more time... they are not "Old ads" Seeing as how Microsoft has not added a simple disclaimer... they clearly don't agree with your interpretation of the rules.





    Quote:

    For Microsoft to run new ads with updated pricing simply shows that even the new pricing doesn't disrupt the initial point they were making.



    There is nothing wrong with Microsoft's 'initial point'. There is everything wrong with misrepresenting the price of a competitors product.



    Quote:

    No lies were made here.



    No lies, apart from the one that says a specific Macbook costs $2000!





    Quote:

    You're wrong. Car commercials do this all the time.



    I do not live in the US. Are you sure about that? Examples?



    Quote:

    No they DIDN'T lie in their ads.



    Call it what you like. The quoted price of the Macbook was wrong. That is factual misrepresentation. If Apple did the same to Microsoft then Microsoft would have every right to legally complain. You never know, perhaps they have in the past!



    Quote:

    They represented the correct price as it was at the time.



    Yes they did. No problem!

    No one is blaming Microsoft for making the ads.... or even for running them when the information was correct... however when the Mac prices changed, and they continued to broadcast the ads, they fell foul of FTC rules.



    Quote:

    Apple changed the price after the ads (which might show the ads worked)



    You really believe that Microsoft spends hundreds of millions of dollars in order to get Apple to sell more Macs?





    Quote:

    Wrapping up your comment with a subtle insult wasn't needed.



    Sorry. However I reserve the right to subtly insult you again if you continue to misrepresent the facts in this case.
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  • Reply 64 of 105
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by piot View Post






    You really believe that Microsoft spends hundreds of millions of dollars in order to get Apple to sell more Macs?



    This alone is worth repeating.
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  • Reply 65 of 105
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,519moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    do you really think that Apple called him and whined about the ads. Also he made a comment to the effect "all those over a measly $100 price change" when I"m sure he knew it was triple that



    But it wasn't. The laptop shown in the advert was a 13" Macbook, which has the same aesthetics as the Macbook Pro so there's no real false information there. Then there was a close up of a sticker that clearly said Macbook Pro at $2000



    The model in the shot was the one with the 9600M GT GPU. The latest Apple Macbook Pro at $1700 is a new model with only the 9400M. The 9600M GT model is still $2000.



    IMO the advert isn't inaccurate in any way and I think it's quite petty of Apple to issue a legal notice over this when as mentioned previously, their Mac/PC ads bend the truth far more. For example, the one about devices just working with a Mac and not with the PC when Windows has much higher 3rd party driver support.



    I don't think the adverts damage Apple much but they highlight an important point. Almost all the people in the ads think they are desirable machines but to them aren't worth the price. People have had this opinion for a long time and Apple has made it clear they don't want to make cheap machines. The recent articles about 90% of premium machines being Apple Macs is pretty firm evidence that's their target.



    My suggestion would be that if Apple want people to stop saying they are expensive then by all means they can try harder to deliver more affordable machines. Try and aim to make a sub-$1000 15" laptop. If they choose not to that's fine but they shouldn't complain when people point it out.
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  • Reply 66 of 105
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by piot View Post


    OK now I understand why you keep getting things wrong. You don't appear to know the facts.

    The offending commercial is part of the "hunters" campaign. It's called "Lauren and Sue". http://adage.com/article?article_id=138117



    One more time... they are not "Old ads" Seeing as how Microsoft has not added a simple disclaimer... they clearly don't agree with your interpretation of the rules.



    There is nothing wrong with Microsoft's 'initial point'. There is everything wrong with misrepresenting the price of a competitors product.



    No lies, apart from the one that says a specific Macbook costs $2000!



    I do not live in the US. Are you sure about that? Examples?



    Call it what you like. The quoted price of the Macbook was wrong. That is factual misrepresentation. If Apple did the same to Microsoft then Microsoft would have every right to legally complain. You never know, perhaps they have in the past!



    Yes they did. No problem!

    No one is blaming Microsoft for making the ads.... or even for running them when the information was correct... however when the Mac prices changed, and they continued to broadcast the ads, they fell foul of FTC rules.



    You really believe that Microsoft spends hundreds of millions of dollars in order to get Apple to sell more Macs?



    Sorry. However I reserve the right to subtly insult you again if you continue to misrepresent the facts in this case.



    Look at the commercial again with google video. Tell me if u can see if it's the 2000 or 1700 model.



    In the initial ad, she says "This mac is 2000 dollars, and that's before you add anything." In the new ad, she specifically says the 250gb model, which is the 1700 model, and they show it.



    From what I can tell between the two ads, there was no way to discern if the $2000 mbp was the 320gb 2.66ghz model or not in the original ad, but definitely obvious they were addressing the $1700 model in the updated ad. This is probably why they dropped it but who knows. It's not a matter of MS proving the laptop really was $2000, but that they couldn't prove it wasn't the $1700 model so they went back and updated the ad. Even with the 1700 model, the point is made clear.



    BTW, nobody "reserves the right" to insult anyone on these forums. I'm sure the mods will be happy to explain why if you want to keep that up.
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  • Reply 67 of 105
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Don't forget.

    "Macs to me are all about aesthetics more than they are the computing power."

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  • Reply 68 of 105
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post




    What's in a Mac that holds it's value? OSX, period. The guts at the time are still similar to what PC's have.




    No, the guts are different. This point is constantly overlooked by MS fans but everyone with a functioning brain who thinks about it knows it.



    Every component out of manufacturing varies in quality, minute changes in the manufacturing conditions affect the end product. Like cpu chips from the same wafer are different, they are graded according to performance and clocked to achieve target MTBF rates.



    Same applies to everything, drives, ram, power supplies, cables, plastics - the whole damned lot. Component buyers have the power to specify, Dell goes for lowest price, Apple goes for best batch number. Last time I heard, and it was a few years ago, the difference between acceptable and best hard drives was 17 cents. Apple buy the best, specify the best in their long term contracts, those 17 cents add up a bit but more important is the care Apple takes to look after its customers. Whilst most all the other companies are trying to sucker a new customer in by shaving nickels off the price Apple is looking after their existing customers by providing computers that last longer.



    So let's get off this 'it's all the same hardware' bullshit because it simply is not true.



    .
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  • Reply 69 of 105
    johnnykrzjohnnykrz Posts: 152member
    What I always thought the problem was is that when she says that the MacBook Pro is $2000, she is actually looking at the then $1200 13" MacBook (that they now call Pro) and her budget is $1700 which makes the $1200 MacBook more than affordable.
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  • Reply 70 of 105
    With regard Microsoft's ramped up $300 M ad campaign, you can toss as much perfume on manure but in the end it is still manure.
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  • Reply 71 of 105
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


    Don't forget.

    "Macs to me are all about aesthetics more than they are the computing power."





    Hehe, apparently that comment ended up falling on deaf ears.
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  • Reply 72 of 105
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post


    No, the guts are different. This point is constantly overlooked by MS fans but everyone with a functioning brain who thinks about it knows it.



    Every component out of manufacturing varies in quality, minute changes in the manufacturing conditions affect the end product. Like cpu chips from the same wafer are different, they are graded according to performance and clocked to achieve target MTBF rates.



    Same applies to everything, drives, ram, power supplies, cables, plastics - the whole damned lot. Component buyers have the power to specify, Dell goes for lowest price, Apple goes for best batch number. Last time I heard, and it was a few years ago, the difference between acceptable and best hard drives was 17 cents. Apple buy the best, specify the best in their long term contracts, those 17 cents add up a bit but more important is the care Apple takes to look after its customers. Whilst most all the other companies are trying to sucker a new customer in by shaving nickels off the price Apple is looking after their existing customers by providing computers that last longer.



    So let's get off this 'it's all the same hardware' bullshit because it simply is not true.



    .



    Good lord man, you truly believe all of that? LOL @ the brainless comment. Was it really impossible for you to not get your point across and avoid calling me brainless at the same time?



    First off, I understand about cherry picking hardware, probably better than most around here actually. It's something almost every hardware reviewer seems to explain when exploring the potential clocks in a chip. Companies like nvidia or ati will cherry pick a gpu before sending it off to a place like tom's hardware because they know the chip will stand a better chance at yielding higher clocks with minimal effort. This gets people excited when considering the card. "Wow, TH got that 8800gt to 720/1200 on a stock cooler!" then 2 weeks later "My clocks are 680/900 max"



    Now, that's good and all, but there is such thing as quality control. You think Apple's snagging up all the working chips, while dell is buying up all the ticking time-bombs? Last I checked, these two companies ran everything at stock speeds. Quality control has a level of stress testing involved. If it doesn't pass the stress testing, dell doesn't come buy them up at a bargain. That's silly.



    I've been building systems for a very long time now. I won't lie and say I've never had an issue with hardware, but people like you shouldn't lie and say macs don't either.



    See, the guts of these machines are pretty much the same. Apple insists on some extra coding at the hardware level which is why you have stuff like a 9800gtx mac edition. Everything you just said is mindless dribble that's been fed to you, that you regurgitate and spread around as just another reason to justify Apple's pricing.



    Heck, I'll believe the excuse that OSX and the extra goodies is what justifies the pricing any day over that excuse you just gave.
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  • Reply 73 of 105
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    So he's a liar? He said Apple called him about the ads, then they changed them. I think the fact that they changed them is evidence enough that there most likely WAS a call. So how is he a liar?



    And do you feel the price drop that Apple introduced was substantial enough for a large multi-million dollar lawsuit?



    I don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't be completely covered if they simply put "filmed 4/25/09" or something at the start of the ads. It seems like such a waste of money to pull these. They didn't lie in the ads, Apple simply changed the price, now suddenly they are exposed to a lawsuit? Something doesn't make sense here.



    It makes total sense (other than the "liar" part - that's speculation). Apple notified MS that their ads were out-of-date, and Microsoft changed them. If MS didn't change the ads after being informed they contain wrong facts, then there could be a lawsuit and MS would lose.



    You can't just put an old date on an outdated ad that talks about a competitor, and say it was true at the time it was filmed. As far as wasting money, that's the risk you take when you compare yourself to a competitor - if the facts change, the ads must go.



    Remember when Apple ran the G5 ads, claiming it was the fastest personal computer made? It was pretty much true when they first ran the ads, but when PCs caught up (within a short time), they complained, and Apple stopped the ads.
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  • Reply 74 of 105
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Good lord man, you truly believe all of that? LOL @ the brainless comment. Was it really impossible for you to not get your point across and avoid calling me brainless at the same time?



    Well the brainless bit was going too far, I must say. Although I do agree with some of what he's saying. I don't think he meant to call you "brainless." What he might have implied, I can't really tell.



    I might not always agree with you, but at least you provide some food for thought and keep the debate going in a more or less sane direction. Brainless you aint.
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  • Reply 75 of 105
    sensisensi Posts: 346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    they don't mention the price of security software, productivity software, additional multimedia software, repair costs, and lost time on the PC side.



    Will people learn someday that such a claim is simply fallacious, if not dishonest or stupid? There is freeware for barely anything on Windows thus your fictional additional costs will go up to 0$. Now about the repair cost, do you still believe that Mac have somewhat a 'superior' hardware? Muhahahaha. Get real.



    e.g.

    security software => Avast home AV + Comodo Firewall = 0$

    productivity software (?) => Open office or whatever = 0$

    additional multimedia software (??) => hundreds of free software to pick from (e.g. mediaportal, KMPlayer, ...), 0$

    etc.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post


    bla bla bla (...) So let's get off this 'it's all the same hardware' bullshit because it simply is not true.



    I have a good laugh reading at your claims. It is exactly the same hardware, it is just the price who can rise up to 100% more (e.g. the middle-range 8800GT back then when it was released as an 'upgrade' (sic) option) on the Apple price label. And some people just love that.
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  • Reply 76 of 105
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,958member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sensi View Post


    Will people learn someday that such a claim is simply fallacious, if not dishonest or stupid? There is freeware for barely anything on Windows thus your fictional additional costs will go up to 0$. Now about the repair cost, do you still believe that Mac have somewhat a 'superior' hardware? Muhahahaha. Get real.



    e.g.

    security software => Avast home AV + Comodo Firewall = 0$

    productivity software (?) => Open office or whatever = 0$

    additional multimedia software (??) => hundreds of free software to pick from (e.g. mediaportal, KMPlayer, ...), 0$

    etc.



    I'd like to see you name once piece of multimedia free software that sufficiently competes with the iLife suite. Good luck there!
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  • Reply 77 of 105
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Look at the commercial again with google video. Tell me if u can see if it's the 2000 or 1700 model.



    In the initial ad, she says "This mac is 2000 dollars, and that's before you add anything." In the new ad, she specifically says the 250gb model, which is the 1700 model, and they show it.



    From what I can tell between the two ads, there was no way to discern if the $2000 mbp was the 320gb 2.66ghz model or not in the original ad, but definitely obvious they were addressing the $1700 model in the updated ad. This is probably why they dropped it but who knows. It's not a matter of MS proving the laptop really was $2000, but that they couldn't prove it wasn't the $1700 model so they went back and updated the ad. Even with the 1700 model, the point is made clear.



    BTW, nobody "reserves the right" to insult anyone on these forums. I'm sure the mods will be happy to explain why if you want to keep that up.





    luckily, i will only be here once, and thus i am not restrained by the mods. this allows me to insult you like this:



    you are the biggest d-bag microsoft shill i have ever read.
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  • Reply 78 of 105
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msmith21345432 View Post


    luckily, i will only be here once, and thus i am not restrained by the mods. this allows me to insult you like this:



    you are the biggest d-bag microsoft shill i have ever read.



    microsoft pwns u
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  • Reply 79 of 105
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    "the value and choice of the PC."



    Wow. Mac, it just works!



    What is the value of crap {WINDOWS}?



    64 bit photoshop



    fully GPU accellerated video in Adobe NLE and 3d tools



    access to many windows only 3d apps



    PRICE PRICE PRICE



    argure the point, dont just flame.
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  • Reply 80 of 105
    sensisensi Posts: 346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    I'd like to see you name once piece of multimedia free software that sufficiently competes with the iLife suite. Good luck there!



    Actually there are plenty of free apps that will do the rather basic things that you can do with iPhoto, iMovie, etc (e.g. Xview, Windows movie maker...). If your point is that it is "all-in-one" then yes I can't name one of my knowledge, this alone may be convenient for the newbie or occasional user, but I have personally no use for this kind of dumbed down -simplistic or limited- apps from the start.
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