I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)
My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!
It is a lot of fun having a crack at M$. I have enjoyed the comments which all have some foundation in reality if they tend to the hyperbolic.
However, I would add that M$ is looking to defend what it already has. It wants to take away some of Apple's edge in public perception etc.
The stores will be bad mouthing Apple stuff, showcasing top end >$1000 PCs like the Dell Adamo, to take a little sheen off the cool Apple kit, and helping people migrate to Win7 etc. If it can take a few MBA or MBP sales away from Apple, it is probably a job well done.
It probably can't be profitable for M$ directly, but it can slow the Apple train, take something off the halo and do something that the individual PC makers with their pitiful margins can't afford to do for themselves.
I tend to agree with you Capnbob, but still think this effort may be doomed.
- Are they prepared for the immediate comparisons to the Apple Store?
The press will give them hell for ripping off Apple again and likely gloss over any unique features
- Will Wall Street accept a loss leader on this scale?
- Hardware sales will be a real problem
If they do sell PCs they'll likely have to go with expensive premium models and sales will be low. This may turn off many customers. The Sony stores suffer from this. And why aren't they leveraging the XBox more? Or do they not want the gamer crowd?
- How will they take a mainstream product upscale?
Companies that have launched their own stores are generally at the high end - Sony, Apple, Nike. It's not easy to go up-market.
- Guru Bar is a disaster waiting to happen
As has been well stated by others, Windows suffers from much greater support issues than do Macs. Viruses, spyware, driver issues, etc can be a real nightmare. Setting up a support area may only invite angry/unhappy customers into the store.
Shouldn't it be, just a bar I mean, you'd have to be drunk, or want to be drunk, to use a PC (at least after using it, and pulling out your hair). Maybe
- Bar for dummies
- Open Bar
- Bar-none
- Barred
- Broken Bar
- Wet Bar
- Closed Bar
- Bar Closed (after 1st customer who can't be helped)
- Bar This (with a photo of Michael Jackson grabbing his crotch)
Hell for good it will do them, they might as well call it "Roseanne Bar", at least it should get a few laughs.
This "concept" is a 100% copy of an Apple Store! Oh, gee, they changed the labels and use different typefaces. How original. Even the design of the tables is nearly an exact copy.
There are simply NO words to describe the pure and utter creative bankruptcy that Microsoft represents.
Who would actually go into one of these stores? And why?
Retail tech support? Wow what a concept. Except the MS Stores will have to fight off angry crowds.
I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)
My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!
I'd say that'll be the "Guru Bar".
'Creative bankruptcy.'
Well said. A scorching damnation of the company who is a creative desert of ideas.
Next week it is expected that Mr Balmer will hold a media event announcing and presenting MicroSoft's new concept for their upcoming stores. They may as well go whole hog and claim it all.
I am an Apple user and the surprising thing is I am not angry at this. I just know this organization is a parasite on society and the industry. The question is will they succeed killing their host or will their host take steps to control this parasite.
This "concept" is a 100% copy of an Apple Store! Oh, gee, they changed the labels and use different typefaces. How original. Even the design of the tables is nearly an exact copy.
There are simply NO words to describe the pure and utter creative bankruptcy that Microsoft represents.
Who would actually go into one of these stores? And why?
Retail tech support? Wow what a concept. Except the MS Stores will have to fight off angry crowds.
I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)
My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!
I'd say that'll be the "Guru Bar".
I believe that this looks more like an analysis of the Apple Store and what makes it successful and effective. Hence, they actually include photos of Apple Store components.
Microsoft may be able to work a good store solution, but as long as it is not a retail store, it will not be a success. Merely creating good will is virtual salesmanship. A Genius Bar copy will be much more messy, as it seems lately Apple has been creating things in such a way that cannot be mimicked.
Microsoft's marketing department is a ham-fisted PR time-bomb. I can't recall all the gaffes, but I do remember one time when Microsoft was promoting Windows or Office, and included a coupon for free mouse pads. The promo was highlighted by an overly attractive model showcasing the mousepad on a pillared pedestal, but the problem was that she looked like a porn star in heat. The next month, they had the pedestal and pad minus the lady.
Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.
My personal opinion is that this could help microsoft i na big way. The number one complaint i get as a pc tech outside of work is about not having a store to go to for help (i dont mean best buy).
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?
Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.
Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.
My personal opinion is that this could help microsoft i na big way. The number one complaint i get as a pc tech outside of work is about not having a store to go to for help (i dont mean best buy).
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?
Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.
Do you really think the MS store guys will actually OPEN UP a computer and diagnose a hardware problem? And then FIX it?
This is unbelievable . . . has Microsoft ever had a truly original idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
A leaked presentation has exposed Microsoft's tentative plans for its retail stores -- and the high degree to which they'll imitate Apple stores, down to their layouts and even the presence of a dedicated "Guru Bar" for help.
A leaked proposal for Microsoft from design consulting firm Lippicott immediately provides hints of an Apple connection with a bright, open layout where the center and edges of the store are dominated by computers showing the "seamless" link between Windows PCs and peripherals. Themed areas would push specific products, such as home theater PCs, netbooks or Windows Mobile and Zune devices.
On closer inspection, though, the influence becomes at times extremely close. The reference store seen by Gizmodo would have a Guru Bar -- in some slides labeled as an Answer Bar or Windows Bar -- that would directly copy the Genius Bars at Apple stores and let customers make appointments either for help or just to ask questions. The number of products would be kept to a minimum to avoid the confusion present in stores where most Windows PCs are sold today. Microsoft's outlets would even revive the theater component that Apple has mostly tossed aside: an "event space" at the back of the store would provide a dedicated screen and seating for training sessions or social events.
Lippicott isn't shy about where it takes its cue and shows the positive experiences it sees in other major, if not always successful, retail brands. Apple is held as the best example for its branding, simple layouts, and enthusiastic staff, but others aren't quite treated so kindly. Sony stores are criticized for "uninformed" staff and poor layouts, while AT&T and Nike are also docked for certain weaknesses.
Customers could even set aside parts of the store for paid private events, such as custom group training or, oddly enough, birthday parties.
The standard PC tables at the proposed Microsoft store design. | Image credits: Gizmodo.
A Guru Bar at the tentative Microsoft store. | Image credits: Gizmodo.
Lippicott's positive view of how the Apple store concept could benefit Microsoft. | Image credits: Gizmodo.
Where Microsoft would differentiate itself is in the technology behind the shopping experience. Instead of static graphics, a giant store-length display would advertise new products and change with the season or with major launches. Not surprisingly, multi-touch Surface tables would be omnipresent to give shoppers demos of certain experiences, and customers could order computers online or even print custom notebook decals at the store.
As the extensive document isn't necessarily representative of Microsoft's final action plan, it's undetermined just how much of this experience would actually reach the finished stores when they open in the fall. The slides indicate that the store arrangement may be intended for flagship stores and, by extension, could be scaled back for smaller locations. However, they do corroborate previous reports that the stores will be showcases for Microsoft's ideal vision of computing rather than a store meant to move as much product as possible.
Company executives have previously sworn that the stores wouldn't echo Apple "in the long term" and that the future shops would serve as incubators for ideas other retailers could use to improve their own stores. All the same, the new presentation shows that, at least in the short term, visitors to Apple's shops will find more than a few similarities in what Microsoft plans to offer.
When will Ballmer admit that he is not tech guy? Here is another way for Microsoft investors to see their stock go down. Sell now and leave your misery behind, a perfect advice to Microsoft investors.
What we witnessed today in the stock market with Microsoft stock is a trend that will never cease.
If they follow this model, I don't think they will succeed. But I don't think it takes a tech guy to make a successful tech company. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to be any more of a tech guy than Ballmer but has operated two successful tech companies. I think the difference is a certain kind of business savvy that Ballmer will never acquire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc
this is simple. the guru bar will explain that the solution to any problem is to buy a copy of windows 7.
your hard drive failed? a new hard drive [with windows 7 preinstalled] will fix that. video card issues? you need a new video card compatable with win7, and we can upgrade you to win7 with that. start key broken? upgrade to windows 7 and get a keyboard 20% off.
Clearly they will have to come up with a model that will pay for the service. Microsoft's take per product is less than Apple's that they will either have to charge for it or try to push things on people they don't need to fix the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes
I have to believe that the Guru Bar is a joke.
That is, MS has no intention of having such a thing in their stores (where you can't actually buy anything except a Xbox and a mouse).
If it's real, I don't see why it's a joke. I do see this as likely just one of many concepts under consideration, hopefully it's been abandoned for something that's different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randythot
I believe that this looks more like an analysis of the Apple Store and what makes it successful and effective. Hence, they actually include photos of Apple Store components.
If that's the case, why did they need those slides with mock-ups showing Microsoft brand cut & paste substitutions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981
Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.
Why not? Just tell me where is the Microsoft originality is here. I don't see how this would be anything but a tacit admission that Microsoft is a follower, not a leader. And a wholesale rip-off of someone else's design.
Quote:
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?
First, explain Microsoft's hypocrisy in claiming innovation while just substituting their own names and logos in this concept. If it were an academic paper or a book, this would be called plagiarism.
Quote:
Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.
That would be nice, but they have to be converted into production units first.
Comments
I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)
My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!
I'd say that'll be the "Guru Bar".
OMG! I'm am dying over here...
The Guru Bar. I guess they couldn't use "Brainiac Bar" because the Simpson's already nailed that one!
Not Simpsons; Superman!
It is a lot of fun having a crack at M$. I have enjoyed the comments which all have some foundation in reality if they tend to the hyperbolic.
However, I would add that M$ is looking to defend what it already has. It wants to take away some of Apple's edge in public perception etc.
The stores will be bad mouthing Apple stuff, showcasing top end >$1000 PCs like the Dell Adamo, to take a little sheen off the cool Apple kit, and helping people migrate to Win7 etc. If it can take a few MBA or MBP sales away from Apple, it is probably a job well done.
It probably can't be profitable for M$ directly, but it can slow the Apple train, take something off the halo and do something that the individual PC makers with their pitiful margins can't afford to do for themselves.
I tend to agree with you Capnbob, but still think this effort may be doomed.
- Are they prepared for the immediate comparisons to the Apple Store?
The press will give them hell for ripping off Apple again and likely gloss over any unique features
- Will Wall Street accept a loss leader on this scale?
- Hardware sales will be a real problem
If they do sell PCs they'll likely have to go with expensive premium models and sales will be low. This may turn off many customers. The Sony stores suffer from this. And why aren't they leveraging the XBox more? Or do they not want the gamer crowd?
- How will they take a mainstream product upscale?
Companies that have launched their own stores are generally at the high end - Sony, Apple, Nike. It's not easy to go up-market.
- Guru Bar is a disaster waiting to happen
As has been well stated by others, Windows suffers from much greater support issues than do Macs. Viruses, spyware, driver issues, etc can be a real nightmare. Setting up a support area may only invite angry/unhappy customers into the store.
- Bar for dummies
- Open Bar
- Bar-none
- Barred
- Broken Bar
- Wet Bar
- Closed Bar
- Bar Closed (after 1st customer who can't be helped)
- Bar This (with a photo of Michael Jackson grabbing his crotch)
Hell for good it will do them, they might as well call it "Roseanne Bar", at least it should get a few laughs.
Skip
What can you say about this?
This "concept" is a 100% copy of an Apple Store! Oh, gee, they changed the labels and use different typefaces. How original. Even the design of the tables is nearly an exact copy.
There are simply NO words to describe the pure and utter creative bankruptcy that Microsoft represents.
Who would actually go into one of these stores? And why?
Retail tech support? Wow what a concept. Except the MS Stores will have to fight off angry crowds.
I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)
My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!
I'd say that'll be the "Guru Bar".
'Creative bankruptcy.'
Well said. A scorching damnation of the company who is a creative desert of ideas.
Next week it is expected that Mr Balmer will hold a media event announcing and presenting MicroSoft's new concept for their upcoming stores. They may as well go whole hog and claim it all.
I am an Apple user and the surprising thing is I am not angry at this. I just know this organization is a parasite on society and the industry. The question is will they succeed killing their host or will their host take steps to control this parasite.
Respectfully submitted
HT
This "concept" is a 100% copy of an Apple Store! Oh, gee, they changed the labels and use different typefaces. How original. Even the design of the tables is nearly an exact copy.
There are simply NO words to describe the pure and utter creative bankruptcy that Microsoft represents.
Who would actually go into one of these stores? And why?
Retail tech support? Wow what a concept. Except the MS Stores will have to fight off angry crowds.
I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)
My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!
I'd say that'll be the "Guru Bar".
I believe that this looks more like an analysis of the Apple Store and what makes it successful and effective. Hence, they actually include photos of Apple Store components.
Microsoft may be able to work a good store solution, but as long as it is not a retail store, it will not be a success. Merely creating good will is virtual salesmanship. A Genius Bar copy will be much more messy, as it seems lately Apple has been creating things in such a way that cannot be mimicked.
Any stories you'd like to share?
"where the center and edges of the store are dominated by computers showing the "seamless" link between Windows PCs and peripherals"
These guys should write for Conan.
My personal opinion is that this could help microsoft i na big way. The number one complaint i get as a pc tech outside of work is about not having a store to go to for help (i dont mean best buy).
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?
Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.
Very original.
Yah. Free prize to anyone who can remember when MS had an original idea...
Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.
My personal opinion is that this could help microsoft i na big way. The number one complaint i get as a pc tech outside of work is about not having a store to go to for help (i dont mean best buy).
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?
Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.
Do you really think the MS store guys will actually OPEN UP a computer and diagnose a hardware problem? And then FIX it?
Oh, maybe on a Zune or Xbox.
Where does Microsoft find these people?? It takes real effort to be so unoriginal.
"Guru" was really associated with Indian religions - possibly offensive? Then with what O/S did it become associated? Unix!!
A leaked presentation has exposed Microsoft's tentative plans for its retail stores -- and the high degree to which they'll imitate Apple stores, down to their layouts and even the presence of a dedicated "Guru Bar" for help.
A leaked proposal for Microsoft from design consulting firm Lippicott immediately provides hints of an Apple connection with a bright, open layout where the center and edges of the store are dominated by computers showing the "seamless" link between Windows PCs and peripherals. Themed areas would push specific products, such as home theater PCs, netbooks or Windows Mobile and Zune devices.
On closer inspection, though, the influence becomes at times extremely close. The reference store seen by Gizmodo would have a Guru Bar -- in some slides labeled as an Answer Bar or Windows Bar -- that would directly copy the Genius Bars at Apple stores and let customers make appointments either for help or just to ask questions. The number of products would be kept to a minimum to avoid the confusion present in stores where most Windows PCs are sold today. Microsoft's outlets would even revive the theater component that Apple has mostly tossed aside: an "event space" at the back of the store would provide a dedicated screen and seating for training sessions or social events.
Lippicott isn't shy about where it takes its cue and shows the positive experiences it sees in other major, if not always successful, retail brands. Apple is held as the best example for its branding, simple layouts, and enthusiastic staff, but others aren't quite treated so kindly. Sony stores are criticized for "uninformed" staff and poor layouts, while AT&T and Nike are also docked for certain weaknesses.
Customers could even set aside parts of the store for paid private events, such as custom group training or, oddly enough, birthday parties.
The standard PC tables at the proposed Microsoft store design. | Image credits: Gizmodo.
A Guru Bar at the tentative Microsoft store. | Image credits: Gizmodo.
Lippicott's positive view of how the Apple store concept could benefit Microsoft. | Image credits: Gizmodo.
Where Microsoft would differentiate itself is in the technology behind the shopping experience. Instead of static graphics, a giant store-length display would advertise new products and change with the season or with major launches. Not surprisingly, multi-touch Surface tables would be omnipresent to give shoppers demos of certain experiences, and customers could order computers online or even print custom notebook decals at the store.
As the extensive document isn't necessarily representative of Microsoft's final action plan, it's undetermined just how much of this experience would actually reach the finished stores when they open in the fall. The slides indicate that the store arrangement may be intended for flagship stores and, by extension, could be scaled back for smaller locations. However, they do corroborate previous reports that the stores will be showcases for Microsoft's ideal vision of computing rather than a store meant to move as much product as possible.
Company executives have previously sworn that the stores wouldn't echo Apple "in the long term" and that the future shops would serve as incubators for ideas other retailers could use to improve their own stores. All the same, the new presentation shows that, at least in the short term, visitors to Apple's shops will find more than a few similarities in what Microsoft plans to offer.
Yah. Free prize to anyone who can remember when MS had an original idea...
microsoft bob?
Yah. Free prize to anyone who can remember when MS had an original idea...
Yeah, Microsoft BOB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob
When will Ballmer admit that he is not tech guy? Here is another way for Microsoft investors to see their stock go down. Sell now and leave your misery behind, a perfect advice to Microsoft investors.
What we witnessed today in the stock market with Microsoft stock is a trend that will never cease.
If they follow this model, I don't think they will succeed. But I don't think it takes a tech guy to make a successful tech company. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to be any more of a tech guy than Ballmer but has operated two successful tech companies. I think the difference is a certain kind of business savvy that Ballmer will never acquire.
this is simple. the guru bar will explain that the solution to any problem is to buy a copy of windows 7.
your hard drive failed? a new hard drive [with windows 7 preinstalled] will fix that. video card issues? you need a new video card compatable with win7, and we can upgrade you to win7 with that. start key broken? upgrade to windows 7 and get a keyboard 20% off.
Clearly they will have to come up with a model that will pay for the service. Microsoft's take per product is less than Apple's that they will either have to charge for it or try to push things on people they don't need to fix the problem.
I have to believe that the Guru Bar is a joke.
That is, MS has no intention of having such a thing in their stores (where you can't actually buy anything except a Xbox and a mouse).
If it's real, I don't see why it's a joke. I do see this as likely just one of many concepts under consideration, hopefully it's been abandoned for something that's different.
I believe that this looks more like an analysis of the Apple Store and what makes it successful and effective. Hence, they actually include photos of Apple Store components.
If that's the case, why did they need those slides with mock-ups showing Microsoft brand cut & paste substitutions?
Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.
Why not? Just tell me where is the Microsoft originality is here. I don't see how this would be anything but a tacit admission that Microsoft is a follower, not a leader. And a wholesale rip-off of someone else's design.
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?
First, explain Microsoft's hypocrisy in claiming innovation while just substituting their own names and logos in this concept. If it were an academic paper or a book, this would be called plagiarism.
Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.
That would be nice, but they have to be converted into production units first.