Apple's Snow Leopard disc will install on Tiger Macs

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  • Reply 101 of 166
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineWine View Post


    I don't need to have Leopard. All I need is a hard drive that's formatted for mac, and the $29 disc. That's the whole point of this thread. Of course, I could bittorrent SL, but I do want to give apple some $$. I'd give them a whole lot more if they had a $1000 desktop that wasn't married to a screen. As it is, I'll buy a mini, and later build a hackintosh.



    You'd give them a whole lot more if you could give them a whole lot less. Nice thinking.
  • Reply 102 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    You'd give them a whole lot more if you could give them a whole lot less. Nice thinking.



    ???



    What's wrong with my thinking? Isn't it true that there's a hole in Apple's product line? Specifically between the mini and the MP? I'm sorry, but an all-in-one with laptop components is not something that everyone is looking for. What if you have a monitor, and need a desktop, but the mini is too little and the MP is way too much (and too expensive). That's why on the PC side you have products in every price category. Now, if Apple can't make a "$500 computer that's not junk", fine, I understand, but I'm talking about a $1000 computer. There's a bit of a product hole if your only options are $599 or $2500 and nothing in between (without a screen). Sheesh! Really, some people are so judgmental without having an idea of fundamental basic fairness.
  • Reply 103 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    You have an intel Mac and you're still running 10.4??



    Many folks like me (9 Macs) still run 10.4.11 when possible under the premise of if it ain't broke don't fix it. Users of demanding mission-critical apps often find it smarter to keep a stable fast OS/apps/drivers combination unchanged rather than deal with inevitable upgrade anomalies just to add a few cutesy bells and whistles. And IMO 10.5 was mostly bells and whistles.



    Snow Leopard however is literally a cleaner/stronger/better OS, not just bells and whistles, so I will be upgrading after the 10.6.0 version dust settles.



    -Allen Wicks
  • Reply 104 of 166
    I was wondering what kind of disc came for those of us who qualified for the Up-to-Date program so contacted them through the store chat. This is what I found out:



    Apple: Hi, my name is Danielle C. Welcome to Apple!

    A: Good afternoon.

    A: How may I help you today?



    Me: I ordered a copy of Snow Leopard through the "Up-to-Date" program and I was wondering if the version I am receiving will be a full retail copy or an upgrade disk. The reason I ask is I plan on doing a fresh install on a new hard drive I bought and was wondering if I will have to install Leopard first then upgrade to Snow Leopard or if I will be able to just insert the Snow Leopard disk and let it go to work?



    A: It is a full retail copy.

    A: Unfortunately the clean install option is not available with Snow Leopard.

    A: You have to have Leopard on the computer in order to install it.



    Me: OK, so I will just have to do a fresh install of Leopard and then upgrade?



    A: That is correct yes.



    Me: OK, I was just trying to plan my Friday and that helps. Thank you!



    My conclusion of this is one of confusion. She was either lying, had no idea what she was talking about, or a little of both. From what we have heard, you will be able to do a fresh install with the full retail copy, and I believe that to be true, but previous UTD versions have been upgrade only and required the discs from the previous OS.



    I have half a mind to cancel my UTD order (it hasn't shipped yet according to my order status) and walk into a store tomorrow and spend the extra $20 to save the time and hassle of having to do a fresh install of Leopard and then upgrade to Snow Leopard.



    What are your thoughts? Do you think the UTD will be full retail like I was told or an upgrade version?
  • Reply 105 of 166
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    You're absolutely right, but I could have afforded a PC that wasn't an all-in-one. When I decided to taste the Apple Kool-Aid, the best Mac I could afford was an iMac and not the only upgradeable Mac that currently starts at $2499.



    But you missed the point anyhow. Getting OS X requires a minimum investment of $599 for which Apple won't even throw in a keyboard and mouse (but after the painful experience those items were, Apple is free to keep them next time. Apparently ergonomic is a foreign word to the keyboard/mouse design areas).







    Congrats to you. I haven't seen any real reason to be any more impressed than regular PC hardware.



    Every reputable third-party rating and survey outfit (JD Powers, Consumer Reports, etc.) has Apple computers at the top of their lists. Certainly OS X is a factor but the hardware itself has to be a big reason behind the lofty ratings.
  • Reply 106 of 166
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rpzigler View Post


    My conclusion of this is one of confusion. She was either lying, had no idea what she was talking about, or a little of both.



    Especailly as a sales rep, she better toe the company line, regardless of what she actiually knows.

    Quote:

    What are your thoughts? Do you think the UTD will be full retail like I was told or an upgrade version?



    From everything described here (and other reports), there is only one version of SL.

    Until it is actually delivered and tested, no one will know absolutely.
  • Reply 107 of 166
    cmasoncmason Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rpzigler View Post


    I was wondering what kind of disc came for those of us who qualified for the Up-to-Date program so contacted them through the store chat. This is what I found out: ...



    A: It is a full retail copy.

    A: Unfortunately the clean install option is not available with Snow Leopard.

    A: You have to have Leopard on the computer in order to install it.



    ...



    I think we'll have to wait to find out. However, it's possible the remarks can be seen as not contradictory though. The disk can be retail and the comment about requiring Leopard is a *policy* or *license* requirement, not a *technical* requirement. (i.e. the up-to-date program is specifically designed only for Leopard users who purchased since June.)



    The comment about the "clean install" option is also technically correct. The install menus do *not* give you a optional choice of "clean install" at anytime in the process, unlike previous versions. Instead before starting the install, you must use the menus to run disk utility and manually re-format the drive, then continue the install process, which will still work fine.



    The difference is that you *can* do a "clean install" but there is *not* a "clean install option". Again, this is splitting hairs, but Apple has been known to do so before.
  • Reply 108 of 166
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:

    Apple concedes that the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade will work properly on these Tiger-equipped Macs



    Where did Apple concede this?
  • Reply 109 of 166
    cmasoncmason Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


    Where did Apple concede this?



    That was a quote from Walt Mossberg. Obviously he contacted Apple and received this confirmation from them. Hence this article.
  • Reply 110 of 166
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineWine View Post


    ???



    What's wrong with my thinking? Isn't it true that there's a hole in Apple's product line? Specifically between the mini and the MP? I'm sorry, but an all-in-one with laptop components is not something that everyone is looking for. What if you have a monitor, and need a desktop, but the mini is too little and the MP is way too much (and too expensive). That's why on the PC side you have products in every price category. Now, if Apple can't make a "$500 computer that's not junk", fine, I understand, but I'm talking about a $1000 computer. There's a bit of a product hole if your only options are $599 or $2500 and nothing in between (without a screen). Sheesh! Really, some people are so judgmental without having an idea of fundamental basic fairness.



    People aren't looking for desktops. The desktop market, as it stands today, is dying.



    The money is in notebooks and portables.



    Apple's numbers and consumer trends certainly don't show any deficiency in Apple's desktop line. You'd better call Cupertino and tell Jobs and co. that their record-setting mac sales and non-holiday record quarter were just dumb luck and the changing moon phase. Same for their 18 out of 19 last quarters that beat The Street.



    Apple doesn't deal in the low-end, and even locks out a good portion of the mid-end. Apple deala in the Premium end, and does astoundingly well. In a recession, no less, when the other also-rans are losing money. You should be giving your "advice" to Dell and the rest.



    Do you have any understanding at all of Apple's market? Hint: most of it DOES NOT inlcude the minority of tech enthusiasts who post on Mac forums in the dark little corners of the internet. Hackintosh users and their needs amount to roughly 0.001% of of the market. So . . . aside from doing Apple a favour with your anecdotes about how OS X works on new hardware, and apart from the few of you that buy (one would hope) copies of OS X to screw around with, you don't really matter.
  • Reply 111 of 166
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineWine View Post


    ???



    I'm not going to restart a debate which consumes so many threads here. Suffice to say, Apple isn't in business to make everybody happy. They can't be all things to all people without becoming nothing to nobody.
  • Reply 112 of 166
    cmasoncmason Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    People aren't looking for desktops. The desktop market, as it stands today, is dying.



    The money is in notebooks and portables.



    Apple's numbers and consumer trends certainly don't show any deficiency in Apple's desktop line. You'd better call Cupertino and tell Jobs and co. that their record-setting mac sales and non-holiday record quarter were just dumb luck and the changing moon phase. Same for their 18 out of 19 last quarters that beat The Street.



    Apple doesn't deal in the low-end, and even locks out a good portion of the mid-end. Apple deala in the Premium end, and does astoundingly well. In a recession, no less, when the other also-rans are losing money. You should be giving your "advice" to Dell and the rest.



    Do you have any understanding at all of Apple's market?



    I still think there's soon in their product line for a mid-range desktop system. It could potentially have great profit margins since it wouldn't require the miniaturization of the mini. Maybe something the size of the old Cube or a bit bigger with a single expansion slot and an upgradable video card. Maybe room for 2 hard drives, so mirroring or striping could be done.



    I do think there's a market for this, and they could up-sell many mini users to it. The only risk I see is canabalizing sales of the Mac Pro, but that's not a large market for them anyway. This would also provide incentive for more third parties to manufacture Mac edition video cards and other expansion cards (right now these can only be used in the Mac Pro.)



    Not sure if they'll ever do it, but I think there's definitely room in the lineup for a product like this, sort of like the 13-inch Macbook Pro in the portable line.
  • Reply 113 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sierradragon View Post


    Many folks like me (9 Macs) still run 10.4.11 when possible under the premise of if it ain't broke don't fix it. Users of demanding mission-critical apps often find it smarter to keep a stable fast OS/apps/drivers combination unchanged rather than deal with inevitable upgrade anomalies just to add a few cutesy bells and whistles. And IMO 10.5 was mostly bells and whistles.



    Snow Leopard however is literally a cleaner/stronger/better OS, not just bells and whistles, so I will be upgrading after the 10.6.0 version dust settles.



    -Allen Wicks



    Agreed 100%.
  • Reply 114 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmason View Post


    I think we'll have to wait to find out. However, it's possible the remarks can be seen as not contradictory though. The disk can be retail and the comment about requiring Leopard is a *policy* or *license* requirement, not a *technical* requirement. (i.e. the up-to-date program is specifically designed only for Leopard users who purchased since June.)



    The comment about the "clean install" option is also technically correct. The install menus do *not* give you a optional choice of "clean install" at anytime in the process, unlike previous versions. Instead before starting the install, you must use the menus to run disk utility and manually re-format the drive, then continue the install process, which will still work fine.



    The difference is that you *can* do a "clean install" but there is *not* a "clean install option". Again, this is splitting hairs, but Apple has been known to do so before.



    I hope that, at some point, AI pulls together all of the good info on this issue, filters the FUD, and provides a nice little tutorial on what Tiger users should do. That would be a huge service.



    There must be millions like me, with a couple of Tiger systems and a couple of Leopards, all who want to (one day) get all of their home systems to SL without having to spend a fortune, or be bludgeoned into buying the latest-greatest-etc version of iWork and iLife.



    Based on hope generated by this thread, I ordered an SL family pack. Hope that will suffice for all of my computers at home......\
  • Reply 115 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Agreed 100%.



    I agree with concept of ?if it ain?t broke don?t fix it? even though I much prefer to break things so I can fix it to see how it works, but Leopard was far from being bells and whistles. There were a lot of core foundations that Apple really tackled to make this a great OS over Tiger. However, Snow Leopard takes this to a whole?. ?notha?. lev?a with core changes. I?m getting sick of some people crying that Apple is charging anything for this service pack that is only bug fixes.
  • Reply 116 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmason View Post


    I still think there's soon in their product line for a mid-range desktop system. It could potentially have great profit margins since it wouldn't require the miniaturization of the mini. Maybe something the size of the old Cube or a bit bigger with a single expansion slot and an upgradable video card. Maybe room for 2 hard drives, so mirroring or striping could be done.



    I do think there's a market for this, and they could up-sell many mini users to it. The only risk I see is canabalizing sales of the Mac Pro, but that's not a large market for them anyway. This would also provide incentive for more third parties to manufacture Mac edition video cards and other expansion cards (right now these can only be used in the Mac Pro.)



    Not sure if they'll ever do it, but I think there's definitely room in the lineup for a product like this, sort of like the 13-inch Macbook Pro in the portable line.



    I agree with you here. Especially on the "Use Desktop Parts" portion. Apple can KEEP their margins while the price stays around 800 dollars. Craft the case in aluminum mATX form factor, and you have yourself a nice winner.



    Apple won't do it though. Too focused on "what is currently working". The reason its working is because it has the Apple logo on the back. Slap the logo on the xMac, and you've got another winner. Till then, I'll do it myself.
  • Reply 117 of 166
    cmasoncmason Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I hope that, at some point, AI pulls together all of the good info on this issue, filters the FUD, and provides a nice little tutorial on what Tiger users should do. That would be a huge service.



    There must be millions like me, with a couple of Tiger systems and a couple of Leopards, all who want to (one day) get all of their home systems to SL without having to spend a fortune, or be bludgeoned into buying the latest-greatest-etc version of iWork and iLife.



    Based on hope generated by this thread, I ordered an SL family pack. Hope that will suffice for all of my computers at home......\





    Yes, the family pack should be fine. I think most of the facts are now clear:



    - The Snow Leopard disk for $29 and in the Box Set are the same

    - You can do a full install on Tiger, Leopard or a bare disk



    The only question remaining is whether the up-to-date disk is the same as above or if it does some kind of Leopard disk check.
  • Reply 118 of 166
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,076member
    w-f-a! (waa-fucking-waa)



    there's just no pleasing some people.



    --a response to all the whiners out there who simply aren't happy about anything apple does.
  • Reply 119 of 166
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    But you missed the point anyhow. Getting OS X requires a minimum investment of $599 for which Apple won't even throw in a keyboard and mouse (but after the painful experience those items were, Apple is free to keep them next time. Apparently ergonomic is a foreign word to the keyboard/mouse design areas).



    I will concede your point that you have to buy a computer to utilize an operating system, and you can buy one that is capable of running windows for less. I really don't see the point of such a remark though.



    Quote:

    Congrats to you. I haven't seen any real reason to be any more impressed than regular PC hardware.



    I don't have an imac, but I love my MBP (core duo) hardware. Apple includes the little things that make a better experience. Illuminated keyboards, better trackpads, built in bluetooth, stiffer frames, lighter weight, no flimsy tray loading drives, ambient light sensor that auto ajusts brightness, etc, etc. I've also opened up my MBP on a couple occasions (once to replace a fan, macs aren't perfect \ and once to add a larger hard drive), and I was amazed at how well utilized the space was. The mounting setup for the hard dive was pretty cool too, the hard drive floats securely on rubber mounts ensure that the vibrations don't get transfered to the frame and other parts of the laptop. There is definitely a level of attention to detail that I haven't seen elsewhere.
  • Reply 120 of 166
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    I will concede your point that you have to buy a computer to utilize an operating system, and you can buy one that is capable of running windows for less. I really don't see the point of such a remark though.







    I don't have an imac, but I love my MBP (core duo) hardware. Apple includes the little things that make a better experience. Illuminated keyboards, better trackpads, built in bluetooth, stiffer frames, lighter weight, no flimsy tray loading drives, ambient light sensor that auto ajusts brightness, etc, etc. I've also opened up my MBP on a couple occasions (once to replace a fan, macs aren't perfect \ and once to add a larger hard drive), and I was amazed at how well utilized the space was. The mounting setup for the hard dive was pretty cool too, the hard drive floats securely on rubber mounts ensure that the vibrations don't get transfered to the frame and other parts of the laptop. There is definitely a level of attention to detail that I haven't seen elsewhere.



    It's all the little things, all the little details. Taken for all in all, the widespread desirability of Apple notebooks is not surprising. Plus it's the entire Apple gestalt. Can't be matched by anyone else.
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