I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.
I don't understand why you only got "old iLife". If you bought from apple (rather than third party used/old stock) got iLife 08 then maybe you should take that up with Apple.
Exactly. The Mac Mini came with 08. I was curious if the up-to-date program included iLife 09 since the iLife package comes with any new Mac.
I think the point is, with most operating systems, it is at least theoretically possible to purchase the legal right to use an operating system totally independently from the act of acquiring and/or assembling the necessary hardware on which to run the operating system.
You can purchase or otherwise acquire the legal right to run the full version of an operating system in one act, and then you can purchase or otherwise bring together all the hardware necessary to run that operating system in a separate act. This is true of most personal-computer-class operating systems.
Alternately, you might be able to acquire the "upgrade" version of most operating systems, and even though it might be technologically possible to install them from scratch on a computer that has never had any previous version of that operating system on it, it would be illegal to do so because you hadn't already acquired the right to use a previous "full version".
On the Mac side of the equation, the only way to acquire the right to use Mac OS X in the first place, is if you purchase it bundled with computer hardware. If you have already assembled the necessary hardware technologically adequate to run Mac OS X, thus eliminating the need to purchase any new hardware, it is impossible to independently acquire the legal right to use Mac OS X. The versions of Mac OS X that you can purchase separately by retail are therefore all effectively "upgrades" for the original version of Mac OS X that came with the initial hardware purchase.
It is impossible to separate the cost of the Mac hardware from the cost of acquiring the legal right to run the initial "full version" of OS X.
I think you are digging too deep into what the poster was hinting at. It was just an OSX is expensive, not cheap rant. "The cheapest full license of OSX is $599!!!" Yeah, but it comes with a free computer.
Considering what your post, yes the OSX licensing scheme is different from Windows and Linux. However, it is not true that most operating systems operate like Windows. Most operating systems are tied directly to their hardware, with no major upgrades available. Cell phones, calculators, routers, cable boxes, etc often have operating systems that you can't purchase in store without buying new hardware. Now they are more basic than a personal computer operating system, but they demonstrate that tying the OS to the hardware is a perfectly viable business model. Now what do you do if you want to follow that business model, but also want to make updates available to your customers? You do what Apple does. I fail to see how a company wanting to allow customers to update their operating system requires the company to license the operating system for any and all "capable hardware".
I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.
You mean like how more powerful and efficient apps utilizing these core changes allow the user to be more productive or how allowing developers to make easy work of these frameworks and core technologies means that the user get a much more powerful app than they would have had in that same amount of coding time?
I’m not really understanding your stance that things like Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, CoreAnimation, Quicktime, Quartz and all these other foundations changes are to benefit the user. Just because the user doesn’t understand how they work or even that they exist doesn’t mean that the user isn’t benefiting from them.
How do you know these changes are working? For one, each new OS release has made the same HW more efficient than the previous OS. Snow Leopard is worlds above Leopard in many fundamental ways due to these core changes. My battery management is even better, while Windows keeps adding core changes that are great for the new HW used but tend to be less efficient than the pervious version. Take this AnandTech article as Exhibit A: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582
You mean like how more powerful and efficient apps utilizing these core changes allow the user to be more productive or how allowing developers to make easy work of these frameworks and core technologies means that the user get a much more powerful app than they would have had in that same amount of coding time?
I’m not really understanding your stance that things like Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, CoreAnimation, Quicktime, Quartz and all these other foundations changes are to benefit the user. Just because the user doesn’t understand how they work or even that they exist doesn’t mean that the user isn’t benefiting from them.
I was asking about Leopard over Tiger, only one of those were involved in that transition. I wonder how many devs are using Core Animation. The efficiency differences between Tiger and Leopard didn't seem to be that great. It's going to be some time before developers can take advantage of the architecture upgrades, the people in the know say that OpenCL and GCD aren't being used by software yet. Snow Leopard seems to have a lot better case going for it than Leopard did, possibly cleaning up a decade's worth of cruft, so it should be good once all those transition kinks are worked out.
I was asking about Leopard over Tiger, only one of those were involved in that transition. I wonder how many devs are using Core Animation. The efficiency differences between Tiger and Leopard didn't seem to be that great. It's going to be some time before developers can take advantage of the architecture upgrades, the people in the know say that OpenCL and GCD aren't being used by software yet. Snow Leopard seems to have a lot better case going for it than Leopard did, possibly cleaning up a decade's worth of cruft, so it should be good once all those transition kinks are worked out.
There were several core technologies added or improved upon with Leopard. ScreenFlow is a brilliant app that is Leopard-only as it takes advantage of CoreAnimation. Sure, it can take some time for developers to finally utilize it but that doesn?t mean that they don?t benefit the user. The very fact that it takes some time to get integrate these core changes into an app should tell us that they are significant changes.
I did say that Snow Leopard takes it to another level. I think it?s been less than 3 months since Apple finally closed the door on GCD alterations so that developers can finally make their apps work with it. But GCD and OpenCL still seem very complex and Apple is still improving the developer info on it. On top of that, the apps that can most benefit from these changes are likely larger, more complex apps. That will take time, but we the users will benefit from these core changes in the end.
Thank goodness this is finally cleared up (although we really knew yesterday with the story from Spain, although MR totally didn't report about the installation).
Maybe now all the douchebags who insisted that it absolutely wouldn't install without 10.5 already on the disk ("but it's an UPGRADE"!) based on absolutely nothing but their own hunches and wild speculation will learn to keep their yaps shut instead of trying to pass off their worthless opinions as fact.
But probably not.
Doubt we'll even see most of them admit they were wrong on this one. But here's your chance.
Snow Leopard is Faster than Leopard. The proof is I upgraded to it from Leopard on my osx86 PC. Yes PC!
I bought a Mac Mini 2 weeks ago which came with 10.5 and the old iLife. I ordered the up-to-date software from Apple for $10. Will that also include the iLife 09 bundle, or will it just include only the OS?
I've never done the up-to-date bit so I'm not sure what it includes. I also can't tell if it's shipped. The apple store just says it will ship on or before Aug 28th. I'm getting impatient when I could just go down to my local Best Buy and pick it up for $29
I bought a new iMac last June (last year's 2008 clearance model) and it had iLife '09 (Drop in CPU) DVD. Guess your Mac Mini must have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time. The up to date program for Mac OS X is for OS X only. It does not include iLife.
I bought a new iMac last June (last year's 2008 clearance model) and it had iLife '09 (Drop in CPU) DVD. Guess your Mac Mini must have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time. The up to date program for Mac OS X is for OS X only. It does not include iLife.
I have heard of Apple honoring the up-to-date program for iLife in circumstances such as this. I'd give them a call, it can't hurt.
Reviving this thread with the question about whether the up-to-date Snow Leopard disc is the same as the full retail version. If not, what are the differences (specifically) based on actual experiences?
Reviving this thread with the question about whether the up-to-date Snow Leopard disc is the same as the full retail version. If not, what are the differences (specifically) based on actual experiences?
The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
No, the retail version doesn't come with iLife and iWork, only the box set does. He was asking if there is a difference between the $29 Snow Leopard retail disc and the $9.95 "up to date" version that people could get if they bought a Mac after a certain date.
The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
I thought only the box set came with iWork and iLife. I'm comparing the $9.95 up-to-date disc for Snow Leopard to the $29 retail version.
I don?t know as I haven?t gotten my hands on one of those discs. I?ll be buying a new Mac when they are updated but they?ll have machine specific discs by then. Posting these types of technical questions tend to get better results on sites like MacOSXHints.com.
I don’t know as I haven’t gotten my hands on one of those discs. I’ll be buying a new Mac when they are updated but they’ll have machine specific discs by then. Posting these types of technical questions tend to get better results on sites like MacOSXHints.com.
The up-to-date disc contains only the core OS for $9.99, as does the $29 version retail version of 10.6. It does not include iLife. The Boxed set is $129.00 and includes iLife and iWork.
The up-to-date disc contains only the core OS for $9.99, as does the $29 version retail version of 10.6. It does not include iLife. The Boxed set is $129.00 and includes iLife and iWork.
Comments
I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.
I don't understand why you only got "old iLife". If you bought from apple (rather than third party used/old stock) got iLife 08 then maybe you should take that up with Apple.
Exactly. The Mac Mini came with 08. I was curious if the up-to-date program included iLife 09 since the iLife package comes with any new Mac.
I think the point is, with most operating systems, it is at least theoretically possible to purchase the legal right to use an operating system totally independently from the act of acquiring and/or assembling the necessary hardware on which to run the operating system.
You can purchase or otherwise acquire the legal right to run the full version of an operating system in one act, and then you can purchase or otherwise bring together all the hardware necessary to run that operating system in a separate act. This is true of most personal-computer-class operating systems.
Alternately, you might be able to acquire the "upgrade" version of most operating systems, and even though it might be technologically possible to install them from scratch on a computer that has never had any previous version of that operating system on it, it would be illegal to do so because you hadn't already acquired the right to use a previous "full version".
On the Mac side of the equation, the only way to acquire the right to use Mac OS X in the first place, is if you purchase it bundled with computer hardware. If you have already assembled the necessary hardware technologically adequate to run Mac OS X, thus eliminating the need to purchase any new hardware, it is impossible to independently acquire the legal right to use Mac OS X. The versions of Mac OS X that you can purchase separately by retail are therefore all effectively "upgrades" for the original version of Mac OS X that came with the initial hardware purchase.
It is impossible to separate the cost of the Mac hardware from the cost of acquiring the legal right to run the initial "full version" of OS X.
I think you are digging too deep into what the poster was hinting at. It was just an OSX is expensive, not cheap rant. "The cheapest full license of OSX is $599!!!" Yeah, but it comes with a free computer.
Considering what your post, yes the OSX licensing scheme is different from Windows and Linux. However, it is not true that most operating systems operate like Windows. Most operating systems are tied directly to their hardware, with no major upgrades available. Cell phones, calculators, routers, cable boxes, etc often have operating systems that you can't purchase in store without buying new hardware. Now they are more basic than a personal computer operating system, but they demonstrate that tying the OS to the hardware is a perfectly viable business model. Now what do you do if you want to follow that business model, but also want to make updates available to your customers? You do what Apple does. I fail to see how a company wanting to allow customers to update their operating system requires the company to license the operating system for any and all "capable hardware".
I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.
You mean like how more powerful and efficient apps utilizing these core changes allow the user to be more productive or how allowing developers to make easy work of these frameworks and core technologies means that the user get a much more powerful app than they would have had in that same amount of coding time?
I’m not really understanding your stance that things like Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, CoreAnimation, Quicktime, Quartz and all these other foundations changes are to benefit the user. Just because the user doesn’t understand how they work or even that they exist doesn’t mean that the user isn’t benefiting from them.
How do you know these changes are working? For one, each new OS release has made the same HW more efficient than the previous OS. Snow Leopard is worlds above Leopard in many fundamental ways due to these core changes. My battery management is even better, while Windows keeps adding core changes that are great for the new HW used but tend to be less efficient than the pervious version. Take this AnandTech article as Exhibit A: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582
You mean like how more powerful and efficient apps utilizing these core changes allow the user to be more productive or how allowing developers to make easy work of these frameworks and core technologies means that the user get a much more powerful app than they would have had in that same amount of coding time?
I’m not really understanding your stance that things like Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, CoreAnimation, Quicktime, Quartz and all these other foundations changes are to benefit the user. Just because the user doesn’t understand how they work or even that they exist doesn’t mean that the user isn’t benefiting from them.
I was asking about Leopard over Tiger, only one of those were involved in that transition. I wonder how many devs are using Core Animation. The efficiency differences between Tiger and Leopard didn't seem to be that great. It's going to be some time before developers can take advantage of the architecture upgrades, the people in the know say that OpenCL and GCD aren't being used by software yet. Snow Leopard seems to have a lot better case going for it than Leopard did, possibly cleaning up a decade's worth of cruft, so it should be good once all those transition kinks are worked out.
I was asking about Leopard over Tiger, only one of those were involved in that transition. I wonder how many devs are using Core Animation. The efficiency differences between Tiger and Leopard didn't seem to be that great. It's going to be some time before developers can take advantage of the architecture upgrades, the people in the know say that OpenCL and GCD aren't being used by software yet. Snow Leopard seems to have a lot better case going for it than Leopard did, possibly cleaning up a decade's worth of cruft, so it should be good once all those transition kinks are worked out.
There were several core technologies added or improved upon with Leopard. ScreenFlow is a brilliant app that is Leopard-only as it takes advantage of CoreAnimation. Sure, it can take some time for developers to finally utilize it but that doesn?t mean that they don?t benefit the user. The very fact that it takes some time to get integrate these core changes into an app should tell us that they are significant changes.
I did say that Snow Leopard takes it to another level. I think it?s been less than 3 months since Apple finally closed the door on GCD alterations so that developers can finally make their apps work with it. But GCD and OpenCL still seem very complex and Apple is still improving the developer info on it. On top of that, the apps that can most benefit from these changes are likely larger, more complex apps. That will take time, but we the users will benefit from these core changes in the end.
Thank goodness this is finally cleared up (although we really knew yesterday with the story from Spain, although MR totally didn't report about the installation).
Maybe now all the douchebags who insisted that it absolutely wouldn't install without 10.5 already on the disk ("but it's an UPGRADE"!) based on absolutely nothing but their own hunches and wild speculation will learn to keep their yaps shut instead of trying to pass off their worthless opinions as fact.
But probably not.
Doubt we'll even see most of them admit they were wrong on this one. But here's your chance.
Snow Leopard is Faster than Leopard. The proof is I upgraded to it from Leopard on my osx86 PC. Yes PC!
(if you are wondering how, here is the guide i used )
And I found it to be at-least 20% faster at all moments. And I love it.
I bought a Mac Mini 2 weeks ago which came with 10.5 and the old iLife. I ordered the up-to-date software from Apple for $10. Will that also include the iLife 09 bundle, or will it just include only the OS?
I've never done the up-to-date bit so I'm not sure what it includes. I also can't tell if it's shipped. The apple store just says it will ship on or before Aug 28th. I'm getting impatient when I could just go down to my local Best Buy and pick it up for $29
I bought a new iMac last June (last year's 2008 clearance model) and it had iLife '09 (Drop in CPU) DVD. Guess your Mac Mini must have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time. The up to date program for Mac OS X is for OS X only. It does not include iLife.
I bought a new iMac last June (last year's 2008 clearance model) and it had iLife '09 (Drop in CPU) DVD. Guess your Mac Mini must have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time. The up to date program for Mac OS X is for OS X only. It does not include iLife.
I have heard of Apple honoring the up-to-date program for iLife in circumstances such as this. I'd give them a call, it can't hurt.
I got the up-to-date version a few days ago and it WILL NOT install on top of a previous Tiger installation.
Reviving this thread with the question about whether the up-to-date Snow Leopard disc is the same as the full retail version. If not, what are the differences (specifically) based on actual experiences?
The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
No, the retail version doesn't come with iLife and iWork, only the box set does. He was asking if there is a difference between the $29 Snow Leopard retail disc and the $9.95 "up to date" version that people could get if they bought a Mac after a certain date.
I am curious to know this as well.
The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
I thought only the box set came with iWork and iLife. I'm comparing the $9.95 up-to-date disc for Snow Leopard to the $29 retail version.
I thought only the box set came with iWork and iLife. I'm comparing the $9.95 up-to-date disc for Snow Leopard to the $29 retail version.
Gotcha. I thought that is what you meant.
Gotcha. I thought that is what you meant.
And the answer is...
And the answer is...
I don?t know as I haven?t gotten my hands on one of those discs. I?ll be buying a new Mac when they are updated but they?ll have machine specific discs by then. Posting these types of technical questions tend to get better results on sites like MacOSXHints.com.
I don’t know as I haven’t gotten my hands on one of those discs. I’ll be buying a new Mac when they are updated but they’ll have machine specific discs by then. Posting these types of technical questions tend to get better results on sites like MacOSXHints.com.
The up-to-date disc contains only the core OS for $9.99, as does the $29 version retail version of 10.6. It does not include iLife. The Boxed set is $129.00 and includes iLife and iWork.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL
The up-to-date disc contains only the core OS for $9.99, as does the $29 version retail version of 10.6. It does not include iLife. The Boxed set is $129.00 and includes iLife and iWork.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL
The Box Set is actually $169, Leopard was $129. I am well aware of this. As I stated previously, I thought Dr. Millmoss was asking something else.
The Box Set is actually $169, Leopard was $129. I am well aware of this. As I stated previously, I thought Dr. Millhouse was asking something else.
It's Millmoss. Please, do I look like Richard Nixon?
I've done a lot of searching for this answer, and found nothing definitive yet. This is surprising, since a lot of people seem to be asking it.