According to that screenshot, if you only account for the processor speed, the screen size, the HDD size, multi-card readers and number of ports, then you can save well over a $300 over the cost of a Mac.
I think I can get a crappy 2” thick notebook for $500 with a 2.2Ghz AMD Turion CPU with 3GB RAM and a 200GB HDD and more USB ports, VGA, RJ-11, many other ports and a 16” display . That is like $700 cheaper than the 13” MBP and it bests the MBP in every single way according to MS.
I don't disagree with any of the points, they are true for the most part, and nothing wrong with selling to their products advantages. The mac ads are the same, selling to the Mac advantages.
It's a shame they could not be more fun about it, feels a bit under the table when doing it at the sales clerk level.
Thinking out of all my friends, 3 of them fit into the Windows camp for the reasons given (a mac would send them into shock, the other 2 are serious gamers), but the rest are willing to invest a bit of time to get it back in spades. Strict policy, you get ravished by viruses, I will go with you to get a Mac, or you can learn how to install windows.
I don't understand the 4 page rant about this... some of the points are valid - some aren't... None of them are untrue. It reminds me of car-sales lectures... you don't point out the strengths of your competitor, you point out their weaknesses.
Why point out anything about Macs (remember the miniscule market percentage?) unless the customer brings it up?
Also from the training;
Quote:
PCs run more of the software programs your customers use most...
Those software programs will also run on a Mac (it's not a PC?) in Windows.
Sounds like MS is getting kickbacks for hardware sales.
I have to be honest here, I love Microsoft. If it were not for them I probably wouldn't be driving a new car, living in a big house and sitting with a pile of cash in the bank. The frequency and number of IT issues that we deal with regarding Microsoft OS is astounding. One of our customers who we made a tidy profit on, recently switched to Macs and their support call rate has dropped by 75%.
I hope Apple do not get a greater market share as this is going to hit us IT guys in the wallet.
It wasn't that bad. The fact and myth stuff was over the top though. How easy an OS is to learn is subjective and varies from person to person, you can't state it as a fact. I also disagree with the value argument, I'm willing to pay more for a mac because I see more value in it, even if the specs are a little lower. Windows 7 is a very solid OS though, if it was out a few years back, I may not have switched. Not because it is better than OSX, but because it would have been good enough.
MS would gain more in revenue by solving its piracy issues across the asian continent than winning sales from potential Apple customers. The amount of money and resources it is throwing at fighting Apple is out of line with what it could cost to gain more business elsewhere.
This suggests that MS believe Apple will keep on becoming stronger and stronger, and will become a much bigger threat to it's revenues.
Even if MS decided to spend all of its (and Bill Gates) fortune on promotions, it would still never persuade me to switch back to Windoze.
As I have said on postings on other forums, the cost of ownership of a computer is ((cost of purchase and upkeep) - (value at end of life)) / lifespan. Most PC's are worth nothing at the end of life, yet I've just sold my iBook G4 for 1/2 of it's original value. It was a bullet proof machine and never failed (despite being dropped twice!!).
Ultimately, people with intelligence will always choose the right product!!
When you force a comparison between services that are different like Windows Live being free, even though it offers no similar service. Instead it offers download options for copies of software that comes standard on the Mac, and the other services they offer a free from them on the Mac. I guess the funny part is, Apple's hardware offers far more software availability than the Windows PC. You get all of the Mac only apps including those from Apple, you also can run Multiple Versions of Windows, & Linux on the same computer, even at the same time. So how does not going Mac give you more software choices?
Windows Live doesn't offer email? (Hotmail) Doesn't host photos? (Live Photos - 25GB free storage) What else doesn't it do? I am a MobileMe subscriber, but really, other than the convenience, you can get pretty much everything free from another service. It's people making these hardline 'Microsoft Sucks' types of rants that turn people away. The computer - Mac or PC - is quickly becoming just a window into a digital snapshot of a person - stored on the 'net. We're finally getting close to the 'browser as the PC' that Sun and such dreamed about 10 years ago.
And, it's tough to call iLife 'free'. If it is free, then what are we paying for when we buy a Mac?
Lastly, selling a Mac as a 'multi version of windows' machine is completely counter-intuitive to your whole argument. Why, if the Mac is 'better', would you need to run even one Windows image, let alone many? And if you are doing this legitimately, you need a licence for EACH image of Windows, as well as Fusion or Parallels. There are also the same virtualization tools available on the PC.
I love Mac, and would never go back. There is nothing wrong with saying that, plain and simple, and leaving all the fluff out of it. Of my friends who have switched to Mac, not one of them was convinced by a PC-bashing rant... they all took a look at what I was doing with my mac (iPhoto books, iMovie production, Logic scores) and wanted to DO THAT as easy as I was. You can do all that on just about ANY pc... but Mac wraps it up in a compelling package.
[QUOTE=djsherly;1478187]I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years/QUOTE]
Get ready then.
"Windows 7 when it ships next month will be vulnerable to an attack that hasn't been possible since 1999, a new vulnerability found by a security researcher shows. Sending a deliberately malformed network negotiation request can force a Windows 7 system into a page fault that triggers a "blue screen of death" error, even without the user's help in launching the code. The attack affects both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS."
I didn't see much in the way of lies in the slides. Sure, they're a bit selective about their material but then again, most material has an agenda these days. When you go to windows training prepared by Microsoft, tell me honestly what information you expect to be fed? I would expect no less from any other vendor.
That may be because you're not using Windows 7 yet.
MS's training aside, Best Buy charges $50 to set up an email account? Something that should take all about about 5 minutes. Or is it that much more complicated on Windows? That should just come free with the purchase.
As for the training...maybe I'll go hang out at my local Best Buy after Win7 releases...purely for the entertainment value of sales people parroting these lines!
The training material says the $300 you save by buying a Mac is good for two Geek Squad sessions to remove viruses and spyware.
Whoever came up with this "selling point" for Windows is a total idiot.
Agreed, this is bonehead beyond belief.
Since this training program is now public, there now exists the potential for considerable backlash. Informed consumers will know any apparent cost savings will be eaten up in sales pressure to buy anti-virus software, etc. This is bonehead on Microsoft's part, they didn't think this through at all.
What Microsoft is saying in effect is, sure you can save money on the hadware but our software sucks so bad the extra software you should buy or the Geek Squad assistance you will need to secure your computer brings the cost up to what Apple charges
Not going out of your way to advertise a competitors services isn't exactly "lying" - This presentation is just about right for a PC orientated sales pitch.
Apple Sales Training is just as biased.
Move along, nothing to see here...
the problem isn't that one, the other, or both are biased. the problem is that best buy is lazy and aren't writing their own training programs which only serves to water down the customer service provided by their "expert" sales people.
having "experts" who are merely trained puppets (from either side) sinks your credibility and eventually your business.
So, Microsoft believes they have to train big box employees to lie about products. That was their first mistake. They should have just told them to do what they're already trained do -- make it up as they go along.
One thing that has kept me on the PC side even though we have a PC and Mac Mini is that OSX doesn't have anything that compares to the handwriting recognition that Windows Vista and Windows 7 has. There is just no comparison.
What do I want? A Mac tablet that supports a true version of OSX and Windows 7 and allows for stylus as well as multi-touch input. If Apple made such a device I would switch 100%
OS X does have handwriting recognition built in, and always has. You need a graphics tablet connected for 'Inkwell' to show up in System Preferences. This is what the Axiotron Modbook people have taken advantage of.
Agreed, I'd love Apple to make hardware to use this out the box. For me it would be for mainly artistic reasons, there is no way I can write as fast as I can type.
Windows Live doesn't offer email? (Hotmail) Doesn't host photos? (Live Photos - 25GB free storage) What else doesn't it do? I am a MobileMe subscriber, but really, other than the convenience, you can get pretty much everything free from another service. It's people making these hardline 'Microsoft Sucks' types of rants that turn people away. The computer - Mac or PC - is quickly becoming just a window into a digital snapshot of a person - stored on the 'net. We're finally getting close to the 'browser as the PC' that Sun and such dreamed about 10 years ago.
Does it have an iDisk equivalent? Find my iPhone service? Remote wipe service? Contact and calendar syncing? That list is just going to grow as mobileme matures too. They are different services, the only thing that relates them is that they are online services.
Edit: You can get a lot of stuff free from other services, but iLife doesn't have them all. They are different services that share a couple common ones.
OS X does have handwriting recognition built in, and always has. You need a graphics tablet connected for 'Inkwell' to show up in System Preferences. This is what the Axiotron Modbook people have taken advantage of.
Agreed, I'd love Apple to make hardware to use this out the box. For me it would be for mainly artistic reasons, there is no way I can write as fast as I can type.
This is kind of cool use of Snow Leopard and multitouch trackpad. I have already used it to send a document with my signature on it without having to print it out and then scan it again for fax/email. Though it took me several tries to get it right.
Comments
I think I can get a crappy 2” thick notebook for $500 with a 2.2Ghz AMD Turion CPU with 3GB RAM and a 200GB HDD and more USB ports, VGA, RJ-11, many other ports and a 16” display . That is like $700 cheaper than the 13” MBP and it bests the MBP in every single way according to MS.
It's a shame they could not be more fun about it, feels a bit under the table when doing it at the sales clerk level.
Thinking out of all my friends, 3 of them fit into the Windows camp for the reasons given (a mac would send them into shock, the other 2 are serious gamers), but the rest are willing to invest a bit of time to get it back in spades. Strict policy, you get ravished by viruses, I will go with you to get a Mac, or you can learn how to install windows.
I don't understand the 4 page rant about this... some of the points are valid - some aren't... None of them are untrue. It reminds me of car-sales lectures... you don't point out the strengths of your competitor, you point out their weaknesses.
Why point out anything about Macs (remember the miniscule market percentage?) unless the customer brings it up?
Also from the training;
PCs run more of the software programs your customers use most...
Those software programs will also run on a Mac (it's not a PC?) in Windows.
Sounds like MS is getting kickbacks for hardware sales.
I hope Apple do not get a greater market share as this is going to hit us IT guys in the wallet.
Microsoft is terribly scared of Apple. When you don't have anything better than the competition, you just attack and attack.
You mean like what Apple does?
This suggests that MS believe Apple will keep on becoming stronger and stronger, and will become a much bigger threat to it's revenues.
Even if MS decided to spend all of its (and Bill Gates) fortune on promotions, it would still never persuade me to switch back to Windoze.
As I have said on postings on other forums, the cost of ownership of a computer is ((cost of purchase and upkeep) - (value at end of life)) / lifespan. Most PC's are worth nothing at the end of life, yet I've just sold my iBook G4 for 1/2 of it's original value. It was a bullet proof machine and never failed (despite being dropped twice!!).
Ultimately, people with intelligence will always choose the right product!!
Phil
Whoever came up with this "selling point" for Windows is a total idiot.
When you force a comparison between services that are different like Windows Live being free, even though it offers no similar service. Instead it offers download options for copies of software that comes standard on the Mac, and the other services they offer a free from them on the Mac. I guess the funny part is, Apple's hardware offers far more software availability than the Windows PC. You get all of the Mac only apps including those from Apple, you also can run Multiple Versions of Windows, & Linux on the same computer, even at the same time. So how does not going Mac give you more software choices?
Windows Live doesn't offer email? (Hotmail) Doesn't host photos? (Live Photos - 25GB free storage) What else doesn't it do? I am a MobileMe subscriber, but really, other than the convenience, you can get pretty much everything free from another service. It's people making these hardline 'Microsoft Sucks' types of rants that turn people away. The computer - Mac or PC - is quickly becoming just a window into a digital snapshot of a person - stored on the 'net. We're finally getting close to the 'browser as the PC' that Sun and such dreamed about 10 years ago.
And, it's tough to call iLife 'free'. If it is free, then what are we paying for when we buy a Mac?
Lastly, selling a Mac as a 'multi version of windows' machine is completely counter-intuitive to your whole argument. Why, if the Mac is 'better', would you need to run even one Windows image, let alone many? And if you are doing this legitimately, you need a licence for EACH image of Windows, as well as Fusion or Parallels. There are also the same virtualization tools available on the PC.
I love Mac, and would never go back. There is nothing wrong with saying that, plain and simple, and leaving all the fluff out of it. Of my friends who have switched to Mac, not one of them was convinced by a PC-bashing rant... they all took a look at what I was doing with my mac (iPhoto books, iMovie production, Logic scores) and wanted to DO THAT as easy as I was. You can do all that on just about ANY pc... but Mac wraps it up in a compelling package.
Get ready then.
"Windows 7 when it ships next month will be vulnerable to an attack that hasn't been possible since 1999, a new vulnerability found by a security researcher shows. Sending a deliberately malformed network negotiation request can force a Windows 7 system into a page fault that triggers a "blue screen of death" error, even without the user's help in launching the code. The attack affects both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS."
I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years?
I didn't see much in the way of lies in the slides. Sure, they're a bit selective about their material but then again, most material has an agenda these days. When you go to windows training prepared by Microsoft, tell me honestly what information you expect to be fed? I would expect no less from any other vendor.
That may be because you're not using Windows 7 yet.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Win...DSoD,8620.html
As for the training...maybe I'll go hang out at my local Best Buy after Win7 releases...purely for the entertainment value of sales people parroting these lines!
The training material says the $300 you save by buying a Mac is good for two Geek Squad sessions to remove viruses and spyware.
Whoever came up with this "selling point" for Windows is a total idiot.
Agreed, this is bonehead beyond belief.
Since this training program is now public, there now exists the potential for considerable backlash. Informed consumers will know any apparent cost savings will be eaten up in sales pressure to buy anti-virus software, etc. This is bonehead on Microsoft's part, they didn't think this through at all.
What Microsoft is saying in effect is, sure you can save money on the hadware but our software sucks so bad the extra software you should buy or the Geek Squad assistance you will need to secure your computer brings the cost up to what Apple charges
I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years?
Anecdotal evidence is only so effective. My friend just had her entire computer go BSOD a week ago. Windows XP i think.
Not going out of your way to advertise a competitors services isn't exactly "lying" - This presentation is just about right for a PC orientated sales pitch.
Apple Sales Training is just as biased.
Move along, nothing to see here...
the problem isn't that one, the other, or both are biased. the problem is that best buy is lazy and aren't writing their own training programs which only serves to water down the customer service provided by their "expert" sales people.
having "experts" who are merely trained puppets (from either side) sinks your credibility and eventually your business.
One thing that has kept me on the PC side even though we have a PC and Mac Mini is that OSX doesn't have anything that compares to the handwriting recognition that Windows Vista and Windows 7 has. There is just no comparison.
What do I want? A Mac tablet that supports a true version of OSX and Windows 7 and allows for stylus as well as multi-touch input. If Apple made such a device I would switch 100%
OS X does have handwriting recognition built in, and always has. You need a graphics tablet connected for 'Inkwell' to show up in System Preferences. This is what the Axiotron Modbook people have taken advantage of.
Agreed, I'd love Apple to make hardware to use this out the box. For me it would be for mainly artistic reasons, there is no way I can write as fast as I can type.
Windows Live doesn't offer email? (Hotmail) Doesn't host photos? (Live Photos - 25GB free storage) What else doesn't it do? I am a MobileMe subscriber, but really, other than the convenience, you can get pretty much everything free from another service. It's people making these hardline 'Microsoft Sucks' types of rants that turn people away. The computer - Mac or PC - is quickly becoming just a window into a digital snapshot of a person - stored on the 'net. We're finally getting close to the 'browser as the PC' that Sun and such dreamed about 10 years ago.
Does it have an iDisk equivalent? Find my iPhone service? Remote wipe service? Contact and calendar syncing? That list is just going to grow as mobileme matures too. They are different services, the only thing that relates them is that they are online services.
Edit: You can get a lot of stuff free from other services, but iLife doesn't have them all. They are different services that share a couple common ones.
OS X does have handwriting recognition built in, and always has. You need a graphics tablet connected for 'Inkwell' to show up in System Preferences. This is what the Axiotron Modbook people have taken advantage of.
Agreed, I'd love Apple to make hardware to use this out the box. For me it would be for mainly artistic reasons, there is no way I can write as fast as I can type.
This is kind of cool use of Snow Leopard and multitouch trackpad. I have already used it to send a document with my signature on it without having to print it out and then scan it again for fax/email. Though it took me several tries to get it right.
? http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...autograph.html