Really? You have access to sales figures then that no one else has except at Apple? I doubt it. They have never been released so you can not make that statement. We've been told they were selling 2 or 3 times as were originally but that statment meens nothing unless you have a hard figure. For all intents and purposes you surely can not call it a success. It has been in production now for over 3 years yet is still considered a "hobby"? Most have never even heard of it. They think it's an actual TV whenever its mentioned. Blu-ray on the other hand has been flying off shelves both last and this year and now features many of the Apple TV's exact same features: wireless, youtube, movie rentals, pics, etc. Yet a blu-ray player can now be had for under $200 - check Amazon.
The Apple TV can only be considered a success for Apple in that it requires that you constantly spend more money in Apple's iTunes machine and nowhere else. The design of the menus even puts all you own music , video, movies files at the bottom of the list.
You could say the exact same thing about any jukebox in any bar- "it makes money, it gets updated"...
Dude, this is goofy delusional stuff.
I stopped reading when you got to BluRay discs "flying off the shelves" ....
It was extremely overpriced and the sound was mediocre at best- in other words a joke and a failure.
Not true.
One of the few benefits of being as incredibly ancient as I am is that I actually remember stuff as it happened and not as the tech news revisionists and forum pundits re-create it in their minds.
It was pretty much as I laid it out in my first post. I won't bother to repeat myself.
When Jobs returned to Apple. He slashed and simplified the product lines and slammed the lid on news about products in development. Nothing shipped unless it worked.
The Apple TV can only be considered a success for Apple in that it requires that you constantly spend more money in Apple's iTunes machine and nowhere else.
Since it's a device specifically sold for iTunes... yes, it does require iTunes, as everyone who buys one knows And yes, the niche it fills is not huge (but growing).
But it's a success regardless of sales.
Apple NEEDED the AppleTV for a very important reason: they needed content owners to offer movies and TV shows on iTunes. When you have a chicken and egg problem, you may have to create the egg. If it's a "hobby" that at least pays for its own R&D, then that's fantastic--you still get the chicken too, which is what you really wanted.
Content owners were never going to get enthusiastic about iTunes as a video platform if it only fed iPods and computers (especially back then: the days before Hulu, Netflix streaming, and the iPod Touch). And an iPod-to-TV video cable with added remote kit is not a mainstream market solution. Content owners needed to see iTunes deliver to home TVs.
Apple gave them that. The rest is history: iTunes movies and TV shows have taken off. And if nobody BUT the content owners ever cares about AppleTV, it still did its job.
The fact that it remains worth selling years later is the icing on the cake. There's nothing wrong with specialized products that serve the needs/wants of specific small groups. (Thank goodness they exist! I don't want an AppleTV, but I do want lots of other niche things: my DVR, my gaming mouse, my SD card with built-in USB, my Time Capsule that just saved my bacon, etc.)
Given that I own products from every major (and most minor) DAP/PMP manufacturer, including every Apple iPod ever available on the consumer market (save the newest iPod Classic).
I only support outstanding products, not entire companies, as they all tend to be rather inconsistent when taken as a whole.
I see you want to creat a new document. Touch me to create one.
Touch me again.
That was great. Now touch me again.
Touch me again.
Touch me again.
I see you're having trouble. Just keep touching me.
Okay, and now squirt some of those borrowed songs to somebody else with a ... Darn I can't squirt my, uhm I mean microsoft's songs to anybody. Okay then just keep touching me.
Amusing (so called) news given that fully functional Windows-based tablet PCs have been on the market for some 7 years now -
Who here said Apple is going to "invent" tablets? And since when are the current Tablet PCs so wildly popular, since they are "fully functional"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Quite the contrary...
Buy a ZUNE HD now, and rest assured that it will be an integral part of a much lager media-centric ecosystem, that includes integration with the extremely successful X-BOX 360, as well as almost every other media platform they'll release in the foreseeable future.
See How That Works
Quite the contrary...
Buy an iPod Touch now, and rest assured that it ALREADY IS an integral part of a MUCH larger media-centric ecosystem, that includes integration with the MASSIVELY successful iTunes (it's Xbox, not X-box, I-pod genius), yada dada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Really Now...
"Tablet PC refers to a product announced in 2001 by Microsoft, and defined by Microsoft to be a pen-enabled computer conforming to hardware specifications devised by Microsoft"
I feel confident that Apple will make a good go of the Tablet Personal Computer, but they really are some 8 years late...
Again, Apple didn't invent smartphones, but that did that mean that they were successful and popular and that Apple didn't blow the competition off with the iPhone? Your argument is flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
That's really a matter of opinion/perspective...
As a former USAF aerospace engineer (now retired), we used Windows-base Tablet PCs almost exclusive in the field, and they proved highly portable, efficient, and well-suited for just about any task.
So, one could easily reason that they/MS absolutely go it 'right' in that respect.
Additionally: One could also argue that it was Apple who 'copied' their entire touch-screen aesthetic from one of the earliest consumer Win-Tablets, the 2003 COMPAQ TC1000.
So tell me WHY I have never seen a Tablet PC out in the wild?
Is the USAF as bad as NASA nowadays to buy M$ products for such important operations?
Let me analyze that picture.... Its screen occupies most of the front... erm... WOW, APPLE IS SUCH A COPIER!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Yes it is to those who are unwilling to see that which is right in front of them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Sure... Whatever you say -
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Not in the least...
Given that I own products from every major (and most minor) DAP/PMP manufacturer, including every Apple iPod ever available on the consumer market (save the newest iPod Classic).
I only support outstanding products, not entire companies, as they all tend to be rather inconsistent when taken as a whole.
Your inability to recognize an outstanding product is a deficiency on your part, and has absolutely nothing to do with the excellence that is the ZUNE HD or any number of other DAP/PMP units on the market.
Just curious- but who exactly are these tablets marketed for? They're going to be too expensive for students. Will people want/need both a laptop and a tablet? It's looking more and more like a niche market. How many devices do people need? Is it the netbook market that will embrace a tablet @ 3 times the amount? Netbooks are so ingrained now in the public's consiousness as both cheap and efficient. I see them all over NY- all the time. It will be very interesting as to how this get played out.
I'll definitely get one if it has a full self functioning OS- no synching and can run intensive applications like the lowend MacBook can.
well if the tablet can do what people have "speculated" it doing, the tablet would be pretty nice for students. I would rather carry a tablet to school in my back pack than my mac book pro. between my laptop, books and the ridiculous walk from the parking lot to my classes, something that I can take my notes on and it being light would be nice. But that is only if it runs a full OSX. if not then screw it.
well if the tablet can do what people have "speculated" it doing, the tablet would be pretty nice for students. I would rather carry a tablet to school in my back pack than my mac book pro. between my laptop, books and the ridiculous walk from the parking lot to my classes, something that I can take my notes on and it being light would be nice. But that is only if it runs a full OSX. if not then screw it.
If, as some rumors suggest, this MacPad/iTablet does run the iPhone OS, then they really needn't even bring it to market.
Any device that is unable to run the less-powerful OSX apps e.g. word processing, basic photo editing, iTunes, et al, is simply unacceptable in a market where one can effectively turn a 300.00 DELL netbook into a NetMac in about 30 minutes.
Another thing Apple need consider is the pricing of the MacPad ( ) , which if priced anywhere north of 500.00 US will be looked upon as being terribly over priced to today's consumer market.
If, as some rumors suggest, this MacPad/iTablet does run the iPhone OS, then they really needn't even bring it to market.
Any device that is unable to run the less-powerful OSX apps e.g. word processing, basic photo editing, iTunes, et al, is simply unacceptable in a market where one can effectively turn a 300.00 DELL netbook into a NetMac in about 30 minutes.
Another thing Apple need consider is the pricing of the MacPad ( ) , which if priced anywhere north of 500.00 US will be looked upon as being terribly over priced to today's consumer market.
Because you couldn't have a tablet version of a word processor amirite?
I want such and such OSX application, therefore the tablet can't run iPhone OS is a weak argument since the app would be written if the demand was there. Personally, I would expect Apple to port iLife and iWork if the tablet ran some version of iPhone OS. OSX wouldn't provide the same seamless touch experience that a beefed up iPhone OS would. But this is off topic...
Sounds like they're going to make another go at the UMPC. Heh. So is Apple, for that matter. I wish both companies the best of luck, but I expect both to fail. People just don't want tablet devices above PDA-size.
I want such and such OSX application, therefore the tablet can't run iPhone OS is a weak argument since the app would be written if the demand was there. Personally, I would expect Apple to port iLife and iWork if the tablet ran some version of iPhone OS. OSX wouldn't provide the same seamless touch experience that a beefed up iPhone OS would. But this is off topic...
Off Topic? Not really...
Are you not aware that the iPhone OS is, in fact, a 'slimmed down' version of OSX based on the same Darwin kernel?
Adding a multitude of additional features (to the iPhone OS) would simply bring it closer to its 'full-featured' parent version anyway.
The bottom line is: With the introduction of (200.00 to 500.00 US) netbooks that are fully capable of running the vast majority of all Windows applications because they actually run a full-fledged version of the Windows operating system (or even OSX if one so desires),
Any Apple product slotting in-between the iPhone/Touch and the MacBook that doesn't reliably run 'most' OSX applications will (potentially) prove quite problematic for Apple to market effectively.
Sounds like they're going to make another go at the UMPC. Heh. So is Apple, for that matter. I wish both companies the best of luck, but I expect both to fail. People just don't want tablet devices above PDA-size.
I agree--in part. I think even an Apple tablet that pushes in user-centric directions not seen before (just as Apple has done with smartphones) will still be only a niche product. A really cool product I will want, but as an iPhone owner, will not need nor buy. I have a MacBook already.
That's OK. A success within a small but growing niche isn't a bad thing--but it won't revolutionize MOST of our lives by any means. However, as a part of the iPhone family (same OS, some/all of the same apps) it will certainly help the platform move forward. Just like Mac Pros help the Mac market, even if almost nobody choose that model. And better to be the first "good" tablet BEFORE the market demands it (and help CREATE a real market--just as Apple has done with the consumer smartphone market) than be late!
As for Microsoft's attempt... I don't see that faring nearly as well
The ArcMouse is one of the best travel mice on the market. Heck, I use it daily on my home computer. Microsoft does seem to have a knack for Mice, even if they are incapable of making an OS that can use it
Xbox Live is brilliantly executed.
Microsoft isn't incapable of innovation, it's just highly improbable
It took me a while to get over what Trudeau did to the Newton with a few panels, but looking back, it was deserved parody.
No it wasn't. At the time the handwriting recognition actually worked pretty well - especially if you (gasp!) read the directions and spent a little time training it.
The sketching mode on the Newton was awesome too - sketch a circle and it would turn it into a perfect circle. Sketch a box and it would become a straight box. Sketch a line and it would straighten it. Still waiting for something like that on the iPhone \
Comments
Really? You have access to sales figures then that no one else has except at Apple? I doubt it. They have never been released so you can not make that statement. We've been told they were selling 2 or 3 times as were originally but that statment meens nothing unless you have a hard figure. For all intents and purposes you surely can not call it a success. It has been in production now for over 3 years yet is still considered a "hobby"? Most have never even heard of it. They think it's an actual TV whenever its mentioned. Blu-ray on the other hand has been flying off shelves both last and this year and now features many of the Apple TV's exact same features: wireless, youtube, movie rentals, pics, etc. Yet a blu-ray player can now be had for under $200 - check Amazon.
The Apple TV can only be considered a success for Apple in that it requires that you constantly spend more money in Apple's iTunes machine and nowhere else. The design of the menus even puts all you own music , video, movies files at the bottom of the list.
You could say the exact same thing about any jukebox in any bar- "it makes money, it gets updated"...
Dude, this is goofy delusional stuff.
I stopped reading when you got to BluRay discs "flying off the shelves" ....
That's wishful thinking if I ever heard it.
It was extremely overpriced and the sound was mediocre at best- in other words a joke and a failure.
Not true.
One of the few benefits of being as incredibly ancient as I am is that I actually remember stuff as it happened and not as the tech news revisionists and forum pundits re-create it in their minds.
It was pretty much as I laid it out in my first post. I won't bother to repeat myself.
When Jobs returned to Apple. He slashed and simplified the product lines and slammed the lid on news about products in development. Nothing shipped unless it worked.
MobileMe?
The Apple TV can only be considered a success for Apple in that it requires that you constantly spend more money in Apple's iTunes machine and nowhere else.
Since it's a device specifically sold for iTunes... yes, it does require iTunes, as everyone who buys one knows
But it's a success regardless of sales.
Apple NEEDED the AppleTV for a very important reason: they needed content owners to offer movies and TV shows on iTunes. When you have a chicken and egg problem, you may have to create the egg. If it's a "hobby" that at least pays for its own R&D, then that's fantastic--you still get the chicken too, which is what you really wanted.
Content owners were never going to get enthusiastic about iTunes as a video platform if it only fed iPods and computers (especially back then: the days before Hulu, Netflix streaming, and the iPod Touch). And an iPod-to-TV video cable with added remote kit is not a mainstream market solution. Content owners needed to see iTunes deliver to home TVs.
Apple gave them that. The rest is history: iTunes movies and TV shows have taken off. And if nobody BUT the content owners ever cares about AppleTV, it still did its job.
The fact that it remains worth selling years later is the icing on the cake. There's nothing wrong with specialized products that serve the needs/wants of specific small groups. (Thank goodness they exist! I don't want an AppleTV, but I do want lots of other niche things: my DVR, my gaming mouse, my SD card with built-in USB, my Time Capsule that just saved my bacon, etc.)
You seem like a die-hard Microsoft fan...
Not in the least...
Given that I own products from every major (and most minor) DAP/PMP manufacturer, including every Apple iPod ever available on the consumer market (save the newest iPod Classic).
I only support outstanding products, not entire companies, as they all tend to be rather inconsistent when taken as a whole.
Clippy:
I see you want to creat a new document. Touch me to create one.
Touch me again.
That was great. Now touch me again.
Touch me again.
Touch me again.
I see you're having trouble. Just keep touching me.
Okay, and now squirt some of those borrowed songs to somebody else with a ... Darn I can't squirt my, uhm I mean microsoft's songs to anybody. Okay then just keep touching me.
Touch me again.
Amusing (so called) news given that fully functional Windows-based tablet PCs have been on the market for some 7 years now -
Who here said Apple is going to "invent" tablets? And since when are the current Tablet PCs so wildly popular, since they are "fully functional"?
Quite the contrary...
Buy a ZUNE HD now, and rest assured that it will be an integral part of a much lager media-centric ecosystem, that includes integration with the extremely successful X-BOX 360, as well as almost every other media platform they'll release in the foreseeable future.
See How That Works
Quite the contrary...
Buy an iPod Touch now, and rest assured that it ALREADY IS an integral part of a MUCH larger media-centric ecosystem, that includes integration with the MASSIVELY successful iTunes (it's Xbox, not X-box, I-pod genius), yada dada.
Really Now...
"Tablet PC refers to a product announced in 2001 by Microsoft, and defined by Microsoft to be a pen-enabled computer conforming to hardware specifications devised by Microsoft"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_PC
I feel confident that Apple will make a good go of the Tablet Personal Computer, but they really are some 8 years late...
Again, Apple didn't invent smartphones, but that did that mean that they were successful and popular and that Apple didn't blow the competition off with the iPhone? Your argument is flawed.
That's really a matter of opinion/perspective...
As a former USAF aerospace engineer (now retired), we used Windows-base Tablet PCs almost exclusive in the field, and they proved highly portable, efficient, and well-suited for just about any task.
So, one could easily reason that they/MS absolutely go it 'right' in that respect.
Additionally: One could also argue that it was Apple who 'copied' their entire touch-screen aesthetic from one of the earliest consumer Win-Tablets, the 2003 COMPAQ TC1000.
http://www.intomobile.com/wp-content...paq-tc1000.jpg
So tell me WHY I have never seen a Tablet PC out in the wild?
Is the USAF as bad as NASA nowadays to buy M$ products for such important operations?
Let me analyze that picture.... Its screen occupies most of the front... erm... WOW, APPLE IS SUCH A COPIER!
Yes it is to those who are unwilling to see that which is right in front of them...
Sure... Whatever you say -
Not in the least...
Given that I own products from every major (and most minor) DAP/PMP manufacturer, including every Apple iPod ever available on the consumer market (save the newest iPod Classic).
I only support outstanding products, not entire companies, as they all tend to be rather inconsistent when taken as a whole.
So why are you supporting the :ZUNE HD: ?
So why are you supporting the :ZUNE HD: ?
Your inability to recognize an outstanding product is a deficiency on your part, and has absolutely nothing to do with the excellence that is the ZUNE HD or any number of other DAP/PMP units on the market.
It's really that simple
Just curious- but who exactly are these tablets marketed for? They're going to be too expensive for students. Will people want/need both a laptop and a tablet? It's looking more and more like a niche market. How many devices do people need? Is it the netbook market that will embrace a tablet @ 3 times the amount? Netbooks are so ingrained now in the public's consiousness as both cheap and efficient. I see them all over NY- all the time. It will be very interesting as to how this get played out.
I'll definitely get one if it has a full self functioning OS- no synching and can run intensive applications like the lowend MacBook can.
well if the tablet can do what people have "speculated" it doing, the tablet would be pretty nice for students. I would rather carry a tablet to school in my back pack than my mac book pro. between my laptop, books and the ridiculous walk from the parking lot to my classes, something that I can take my notes on and it being light would be nice. But that is only if it runs a full OSX. if not then screw it.
well if the tablet can do what people have "speculated" it doing, the tablet would be pretty nice for students. I would rather carry a tablet to school in my back pack than my mac book pro. between my laptop, books and the ridiculous walk from the parking lot to my classes, something that I can take my notes on and it being light would be nice. But that is only if it runs a full OSX. if not then screw it.
If, as some rumors suggest, this MacPad/iTablet does run the iPhone OS, then they really needn't even bring it to market.
Any device that is unable to run the less-powerful OSX apps e.g. word processing, basic photo editing, iTunes, et al, is simply unacceptable in a market where one can effectively turn a 300.00 DELL netbook into a NetMac in about 30 minutes.
Another thing Apple need consider is the pricing of the MacPad (
If, as some rumors suggest, this MacPad/iTablet does run the iPhone OS, then they really needn't even bring it to market.
Any device that is unable to run the less-powerful OSX apps e.g. word processing, basic photo editing, iTunes, et al, is simply unacceptable in a market where one can effectively turn a 300.00 DELL netbook into a NetMac in about 30 minutes.
Another thing Apple need consider is the pricing of the MacPad (
Because you couldn't have a tablet version of a word processor amirite?
Because you couldn't have a tablet version of a word processor amirite?
Sure... That's It - NOT!
Sure... That's It - NOT!
I want such and such OSX application, therefore the tablet can't run iPhone OS is a weak argument since the app would be written if the demand was there. Personally, I would expect Apple to port iLife and iWork if the tablet ran some version of iPhone OS. OSX wouldn't provide the same seamless touch experience that a beefed up iPhone OS would. But this is off topic...
I want such and such OSX application, therefore the tablet can't run iPhone OS is a weak argument since the app would be written if the demand was there. Personally, I would expect Apple to port iLife and iWork if the tablet ran some version of iPhone OS. OSX wouldn't provide the same seamless touch experience that a beefed up iPhone OS would. But this is off topic...
Off Topic? Not really...
Are you not aware that the iPhone OS is, in fact, a 'slimmed down' version of OSX based on the same Darwin kernel?
Adding a multitude of additional features (to the iPhone OS) would simply bring it closer to its 'full-featured' parent version anyway.
The bottom line is: With the introduction of (200.00 to 500.00 US) netbooks that are fully capable of running the vast majority of all Windows applications because they actually run a full-fledged version of the Windows operating system (or even OSX if one so desires),
Any Apple product slotting in-between the iPhone/Touch and the MacBook that doesn't reliably run 'most' OSX applications will (potentially) prove quite problematic for Apple to market effectively.
Sounds like they're going to make another go at the UMPC. Heh. So is Apple, for that matter. I wish both companies the best of luck, but I expect both to fail. People just don't want tablet devices above PDA-size.
I agree--in part. I think even an Apple tablet that pushes in user-centric directions not seen before (just as Apple has done with smartphones) will still be only a niche product. A really cool product I will want, but as an iPhone owner, will not need nor buy. I have a MacBook already.
That's OK. A success within a small but growing niche isn't a bad thing--but it won't revolutionize MOST of our lives by any means. However, as a part of the iPhone family (same OS, some/all of the same apps) it will certainly help the platform move forward. Just like Mac Pros help the Mac market, even if almost nobody choose that model. And better to be the first "good" tablet BEFORE the market demands it (and help CREATE a real market--just as Apple has done with the consumer smartphone market) than be late!
As for Microsoft's attempt... I don't see that faring nearly as well
As for Microsoft's attempt... I don't see that faring nearly as well
Whoa! How Utterly Shocking -
Microsoft has only made one great piece of hardware. 10 years later, it's still in production.
IntelliMouse® Optical
The ArcMouse is one of the best travel mice on the market. Heck, I use it daily on my home computer. Microsoft does seem to have a knack for Mice, even if they are incapable of making an OS that can use it
Xbox Live is brilliantly executed.
Microsoft isn't incapable of innovation, it's just highly improbable
It took me a while to get over what Trudeau did to the Newton with a few panels, but looking back, it was deserved parody.
No it wasn't. At the time the handwriting recognition actually worked pretty well - especially if you (gasp!) read the directions and spent a little time training it.
The sketching mode on the Newton was awesome too - sketch a circle and it would turn it into a perfect circle. Sketch a box and it would become a straight box. Sketch a line and it would straighten it. Still waiting for something like that on the iPhone
Has MS had an ORIGINAL IDEA in its existence?
No. Not really.