Microsoft's SideKick/Pink problems blamed on dogfooding and sabotage

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 158
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post


    Really? You haven't read anything about MM since its launch? (Aside from the fact that they're charging a hundred dollars — every year, let alone ever — for free services) Well, if you happen to like it, more power to you, I guess.



    actually i've been a .Mac now MM subscriber for about 3 years and use it a lot with no problems with two accounts at home and work on five different macs and two iphones. so i might kinda know more about it than most. there is so much poorly or uninformed trash talk on the web. some real diligence never hurts.
  • Reply 142 of 158
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,427member
    after this all i can say

    LONG LIVE MS, it will continue apple's market share increase

    SJ is laughing his head off, as he does an overview of his own cloud
  • Reply 143 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by york2600 View Post


    After reading this story I have a really hard time believing that Microsoft had absolutely no clue how the T-Mobile service ran to the point of not being able to even bring up new servers. I work for a good sized dot com with hundreds of servers across multiple datacenters. .... They help with planning to avoid disasters and they're crucial to disaster recovery. If Microsoft ran those people out of the company then they killed the service via bad HR practices not technical or sabotage.



    fabulous post.
  • Reply 144 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


    lemme guess ... "dogfooding" will now join "keynote" and "flagship" as the most incorrectly used and overused terms in appleinsider articles.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blue_sky View Post


    This is just flat out a wrong use of the term dogfooding.



    Dogfooding means using your own code to do what it's designed to do, as opposed to relying on external users. For example, if you're writing a web server, dogfooding means using it to host your blog. If you're writing a word processor, it means using that word processor to write all your correspondence. It has nothing to do with eradicating acquired technology.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NeilM View Post


    blue_sky is correct. Dogfooding has a well established meaning in tech circles, and the sense in which this article used the term is certainly not it.



    If anything, dogfooding is complimentary, not pejorative. It's the very opposite of the outraged software user asking whether the developers had even bothered to use their own crappy software.



    I hate to bicker and quibble with you dogfood purists, but you're all wrong.



    This term is used correctly.



    1. The article's use of this term directly related to the more common technology definition of the word "dogfood" where a company uses their own products.

    2. Words change definition, and the term "dogfood" itself is already a modified definition of the word, so it's silly to think that a modified use of a word has it's meaning set into concrete.

    3. The article implies that this is an internal to Microsoft use of the word based on the companies hyperallergic problem with outside technology (ex. CEO Ballmer recently pretended to stomp on an employees iPhone).



    To be sure this is slightly different than the more positive connotation use of the word that many here are implying is the One True? definition, but it's a very clear derivative of that use.



    Bottom line, understand language, especially in English is subject to constant changes.
  • Reply 145 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blue_sky View Post


    This is just flat out a wrong use of the term dogfooding.



    Dogfooding means using your own code to do what it's designed to do, as opposed to relying on external users. For example, if you're writing a web server, dogfooding means using it to host your blog. If you're writing a word processor, it means using that word processor to write all your correspondence. It has nothing to do with eradicating acquired technology.



    Yeah, I don't know if y'all have noticed this, but Daniel Eran Dilger's not a very good writer.



    I started reading this article, got two paragraphs in (to the incorrect use of the term "dogfood", and immediately thought, "I'll bet this is another one of those Dilger articles". Yep, I'm right.
  • Reply 146 of 158
    cu10cu10 Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steven R Wilson View Post


    [dogfood] is used correctly.



    Agreed. This was obvious IMHO but some people disagree for some reason.



    But erased backup tapes? Possible if done manually or the tapes were in a silo or robot, or even discarded or destroyed. Maybe they didn't back up to tape at all, but to a disk backup system.
  • Reply 147 of 158
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David Steuber View Post


    Wouldn't tape backups be kept off site? Also, there should be three generations of backups. Isn't that SOP?



    Backup is really a misnomer - it should be called restore, since that's what's really important.



    It doesn't matter how many backups you have, if they aren't done correctly. Systems like Danger's weren't just a matter of pointing NT Backup at a disk drive and clicking Start - there are routines you have to go through to ensure application and database consistency. Simple file system backups are indeed drop dead stupid to perform. Complex transactional systems that are clustered or massively parallel and never down are not so easy and take skill beyond simple A+ certification or an MCSE.



    I too have a hard time believing it was sabotage - although gross incompetence is probably unfair as well. Probably more along the lines of the "wizards" that hold a complex environment together being driven off by an acquisition that, to them, was sour. I have seen it happen before and will probably see it happen again. What I find astonishing is a company like Microsoft could let such a public facing service be so poorly managed - if you don't have the expert support you need, you sure as heck don't do maintenance that can render your system unusable without having the right people there to recover. Wizards can be replaced - eventually. But first you need to try.



    Someone who was in charge of this fiasco needs to go back and learn proper risk management \
  • Reply 148 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adavidw View Post


    Yeah, I don't know if y'all have noticed this, but Daniel Eran Dilger's not a very good writer.



    I started reading this article, got two paragraphs in (to the incorrect use of the term "dogfood", and immediately thought, "I'll bet this is another one of those Dilger articles". Yep, I'm right.



    You're welcome to disregard Dilger as a writer if you wish, but I already went over why you are wrong about "dogfood" being used incorrectly. Try to keep up!
  • Reply 149 of 158
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    even cheapo blackberries had 1GB of storage for years now. Danger specifically designed the system to keep all the data in the cloud



    Sure - it's a heck of a lot easier. Synchronization is hard - witness Palm playing hide and seek with Apple vs. writing their own sync software. Back when the sidekick was launched, it was really hard - there was no precedent like the iPhone for data synchronization with a desktop. Sure, Palm had some synchronization, but even it pales in comparison to what we have today.



    Plus, it was probably a safe assumption that the "Pro's" at Danger would be more diligent with backup then average end users. Due to unfortunate sequence of change of ownership, the pro's left or were marginalized



    Still, designing in local storage wouldn't have been that hard and in retrospect pretty smart. Whoops!
  • Reply 150 of 158
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    actually i've been a .Mac now MM subscriber for about 3 years and use it a lot with no problems with two accounts at home and work on five different macs and two iphones. so i might kinda know more about it than most. there is so much poorly or uninformed trash talk on the web. some real diligence never hurts.



    No kidding - I've been using it since the iTools days. I've never lost data and other then a few minor service disruptions (never lasting more then half a day) it's been rock solid. The features Apple has been adding lately just sweeten the pot.
  • Reply 151 of 158
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steven R Wilson View Post


    You're welcome to disregard Dilger as a writer if you wish, but I already went over why you are wrong about "dogfood" being used incorrectly. Try to keep up!



    I think you made a valid point. It seemed like someone was saying that MS doesn't use the term in the way described in the article. Kind of a subtle distinction, but that's what I gathered. And MS is its own culture, it shouldn't be surprising if they have their own jargon and own meanings of certain words important to them.



    From the perspective of the article, I'm interested in how the MS culture uses the word. I really can't get it straight and I really don't know who to believe. I didn't get a sense of whether the person that disagreed with the article's claim of the MS use is authoritative.
  • Reply 152 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post


    You forgot his star turn in this video:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21VUgw82ME (jump ahead to 2:15 mark)



    Ok, I get the gag as Ballmer being the clueless blind man and the public the poor monster but you do know that the old man was played by Gene Hackman and the monster was played by Peter Boyle, right?
  • Reply 153 of 158
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    Most of the data has been recovered:



    http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/?category.id=Sidekick



    Now I wonder if AI will do a followup?
  • Reply 154 of 158
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Most of the data has been recovered:



    http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/?category.id=Sidekick



    Now I wonder if AI will do a followup?



    I was JUST about to post this. The only thing AI gives a damn about when it comes to MS is when they screw up. My gut feeling says AI will NOT post a followup, and inevitably someone will bring up this situation in conversation, completely ignorant to what the end result was.
  • Reply 155 of 158
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    I was JUST about to post this. The only thing AI gives a damn about when it comes to MS is when they screw up. My gut feeling says AI will NOT post a followup, and inevitably someone will bring up this situation in conversation, completely ignorant to what the end result was.



    After all of AI's rabble-rouding and two articles, you'd think they'd at least do a small followup. I guess not.
  • Reply 156 of 158
    kpluckkpluck Posts: 500member
    It seems most tech sites are ignoring the latest bit of news about this story. Most, if not all, the data has been restored.



    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10375688-56.html



    -kpluck
  • Reply 157 of 158
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kpluck View Post


    It seems most tech sites are ignoring the latest bit of news about this story. Most, if not all, the data has been restored.



    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10375688-56.html



    -kpluck



    Correction: it seems like Apple sites are ignoring the news. Everyone else is reporting on it (as indicated by link you posted).



    The NYT, Washington Post, CNET, Associated Press, Engadget, Gizmodo, and all the major tech blogs/sites have reported on the data restoration.



    AI, not a peep... or if they do say anything, they'll put it on the "Blog" where no one will see it.
  • Reply 158 of 158
    I think AI should have least done what others have, which is to just have a blurb about Microsoft saying they have recovered most of the data and then reprint the letter.



    But how long has this outage been now? And by this Saturday, MS promised to have another update. I'd think Sidekick users would be starting to rebuild their contacts themselves by this point. But I don't have one so I really don't know how that would work.



    If you enter in all new contacts yourself and then when the data is restored, what would happen? Would it do a merge?
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