Happy over its success yes. But maybe not as that it is being seen as a toy. Steve Jobs and Apple aren't into games never have been. It would not surprise me if Apple was less enthusiastic about this perception. Knowing Apple and Jobs I think they were looking for the respect that a smartphone like blackberry get's in the business world.
First, I don't know anyone who sees it as a toy. One can't be happy over its success and then be unhappy about its success a mobile gaming platform.
"Business", or at least competently run business, is all about pragmatism. A business isn't a middle school student, obsessed by what the other kids will think. They want the tool that works for the job at hand.
The iPhone is clearly a tool that works for the job at hand. If an employee really likes that tool, and is likely to use it all the time, all the better.
I don't recall "business" recoiling in disgust as PC based gaming took off, do you? That's probably because they could tell the difference between an app and a platform.
And business owners are of course people, and people are stupid and impressionable. Advertising dictates what the product is for. Show a few business men and suits on TV with iPhones in hand, adoption will start to occur. (How many blackberry commercials have you seen, that show exactly this??)
Show a funky, nickelodeon-style commercial with dogfighting and ball-in-a-cup games, and you'll sell tons of devices to people who want ball-in-a-cup games.
Its not complicated. Its called Advertising. Your advertising is designed with your Target Market in mind. It works on everyone, including business owners and the idiots who work in IT departments.
Business owners are not above or beyond the affects of advertising and cultural trends. Even smart people, who work in and design marketing material, are not immune to it.
People are dumb and easily manipulated. Enter advertising.
My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?
You just turned everything I said, and all the care I took to couch it in specific terms, mention exceptions, etc. and just turned it into an absolute. I didn't say that.
If you want the short version I was saying something closer to:
- Games are not as crucial to the computer industry as those who are involved tend to think.
- Smart mature people tend to play less of them.
Everyone plays games of some sort. Part of the problem here is we aren't differentiating between Chess and Halo and are calling the whole thing "games."
My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?
Thanks
The PSP Go has physical buttons that might feel easier to her. It's capable of impressive graphics, and has a large game selection. She'll like it a lot.
A device like the ipod touch might get frustrating to use if she's having trouble hanging on to things. Also, the ipod touch responds to any accidental taps. The way the screen reads a finger press means there's no sensitivity level. Just touched or not touched.
The PSP Go has physical buttons that might feel easier to her. It's capable of impressive graphics, and has a large game selection. She'll like it a lot.
A device like the ipod touch might get frustrating to use if she's having trouble hanging on to things. Also, the ipod touch responds to any accidental taps. The way the screen reads a finger press means there's no sensitivity level. Just touched or not touched.
Agreed. Physical buttons is the way to go. And the larger they are, the better.
... John Carmack is a smart individual. ... I am surprised to see so many people bust on Carmack .... Carmack is in some eyes a programming genius. ....
Being smart has nothing to do with it.
I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.
That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.
In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.
He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
I don't really know anything about Carmack. You say he's mature and credible, but common sense and all the visible evidence says that Apple is plenty happy with their success with gamers. I for one would like to see more proof that he's believable. Show me some evidence from Apple itself that it's opposed to gaming.
Carmack as had some bad experiences with Apple I think that my be clouding his judgment. He doesn't point out in bad decision Apple has made, just vage statements that they don't suport gaming, "deep down", what ever that's suppose to mean.
My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?
Thanks
I have seen several articles which state that the Wii is helpful to Parkinson's patients, e.g. link
I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.
That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.
In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.
He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
Carmack has changed the face of video gaming forever. He deserves the credit. Its not just being smart at coding. Its transforming his ideas into industry wide use. ID maybe known for games like DOOM and QUAKE, but its the fact that his company's 3d game engines are used by other developers and spawning 25 other games. He may be exceedingly smart at coding, but I don't think he should put down for just being that.
Um, being smart at coding is exactly what is involved in making game engines that change the video game industry. What other skill did you imagine was involved, having a winning personality?
At any rate, I'm not putting him down for being a good programmer. I'm saying that being a good programmer doesn't make you insightful into human nature, or especially skilled at any number other areas of human endeavor.
I pointed it out because in modern geek culture "smart" is synonymous with "good programmer" and "really smart" is synonymous with "notoriously good programmer." There are all kinds of smart, and being a good programmer isn't even the better part of most of them.
I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.
That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.
In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.
He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
Since day 1 Steve Job returned to Apple, the core markets for Apple are Education and Creative. Apple still have significant shares in this two market today.
Game developers will automatically follow the trend if the platform is growing. One of the biggest reason game developers use DirectX and develop for Windows is because of Market Share.
In 2008 the NPD Group stated only $910 million of the some $18.8 billion dollars spent on game software went to the entire PC market. That means some 95% went into consoles and if you look DirectX dominates in only one console: Xbox 360 which at best a dismal 30% of the console market. Worse the DirectX the Xbox 360 is stuck at DirectX 9 as Directx 10 and higher are effectively incompatible. Everybody else in the console market is on some variant of the OpenGL bandwagon. Given some 66% of the gaming market is OpenGL running on some non Windows OS what idiot game developer is going code for Windows on a PC if marketshare is the thing?
Well he's certainly a far cry from being right. I honestly don't know what to make of Carmack's statements. He's either clairvoyant, or he's just guessing, or someone told him something. Pick your poison.
All those iPod Touch commercials showcasing the games really gives the impression that Apple is upset over the strong sales of both the Touch and games. Carmack is just some disgruntled programmer spreading lies. Even before the iPhone and iPod Touch existed, people played games on their cellphones...as pathetic as they were. So of course people want to do the same with the Touch. Apple is hardly upset over the strong sales.
Well he's certainly a far cry from being right. I honestly don't know what to make of Carmack's statements. He's either clairvoyant, or he's just guessing, or someone told him something. Pick your poison.
Well we're guessing too. He's been in more contact with Apple higher ups than most of us can attest to, despite his bias. All we can go on is Apple's own marketing of the iPod touch as the gaming machine and the iPhone as more of an all-encompassing device. "Embarrassed" was AI's own interpretation of his words, but the context of what he was saying seems to suggest Apple would prefer the iPhone to be perceived as a more "serious" device rather than a gaming machine. I wouldn't call that a 'far cry' off in the least.
Perhaps Apple view hardcore gaming like a previous poster - who just slated it.
I'll say that by thinking of the iPhone solely as a gaming machine you are ignoring much of what it has to offer.
John Carmack, creator of the classic PC game Doom, described working with Apple as a "rollercoaster ride," and suggested that company executives are not happy about the popularity of gaming on the iPhone and iPod touch.
In an interview with gaming website Kotaku, John Carmack revealed that top executives at Apple do not look fondly on the growing popularity of games on the iPod Touch and iPhone.
"At the highest level of Apple, in their heart of hearts," Carmack reportedly said, "they're not proud of the iPhone being a game machine, they wish it was something else."…With more and more established console game companies such as Electronic Arts, id Software, and Konami making serous forays into App store gaming, it seems like the iPhone/Touch will continue to be major players in the world of handheld gaming, whether Apple likes it or not.
This article is what we used to call "Prostitution of the Literature." That is taking a spin on 'what might have been stated' and not giving all the facts and letting the reader make up his own mind.
Actually, I would argue that there was an interview at all. Certainly, it does indicate such as was stated and the more comprehensive reporting evidenced in the CNBC article.
And this author's headline, to contend that "embarrassed" is the same as "not proud" is even more embarrassing. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the highest level of Apple view their success in gaming as an 'embarrassment of riches' and that has a different meaning all together.
As to conclude by saying, …whether Apple likes it or not… is really a prostitution of literature for which the author of this article should be most ashamed to admit he ever attended a course in journalism.
Comments
Happy over its success yes. But maybe not as that it is being seen as a toy. Steve Jobs and Apple aren't into games never have been. It would not surprise me if Apple was less enthusiastic about this perception. Knowing Apple and Jobs I think they were looking for the respect that a smartphone like blackberry get's in the business world.
First, I don't know anyone who sees it as a toy. One can't be happy over its success and then be unhappy about its success a mobile gaming platform.
I really don't buy the "perception" argument.
"Business", or at least competently run business, is all about pragmatism. A business isn't a middle school student, obsessed by what the other kids will think. They want the tool that works for the job at hand.
The iPhone is clearly a tool that works for the job at hand. If an employee really likes that tool, and is likely to use it all the time, all the better.
I don't recall "business" recoiling in disgust as PC based gaming took off, do you? That's probably because they could tell the difference between an app and a platform.
And business owners are of course people, and people are stupid and impressionable. Advertising dictates what the product is for. Show a few business men and suits on TV with iPhones in hand, adoption will start to occur. (How many blackberry commercials have you seen, that show exactly this??)
Show a funky, nickelodeon-style commercial with dogfighting and ball-in-a-cup games, and you'll sell tons of devices to people who want ball-in-a-cup games.
Its not complicated. Its called Advertising. Your advertising is designed with your Target Market in mind. It works on everyone, including business owners and the idiots who work in IT departments.
Business owners are not above or beyond the affects of advertising and cultural trends. Even smart people, who work in and design marketing material, are not immune to it.
People are dumb and easily manipulated. Enter advertising.
My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?
Thanks
So smart mature people don't play games?... D
No.
You just turned everything I said, and all the care I took to couch it in specific terms, mention exceptions, etc. and just turned it into an absolute. I didn't say that.
If you want the short version I was saying something closer to:
- Games are not as crucial to the computer industry as those who are involved tend to think.
- Smart mature people tend to play less of them.
Everyone plays games of some sort. Part of the problem here is we aren't differentiating between Chess and Halo and are calling the whole thing "games."
Hi guys,
My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?
Thanks
The PSP Go has physical buttons that might feel easier to her. It's capable of impressive graphics, and has a large game selection. She'll like it a lot.
A device like the ipod touch might get frustrating to use if she's having trouble hanging on to things. Also, the ipod touch responds to any accidental taps. The way the screen reads a finger press means there's no sensitivity level. Just touched or not touched.
The PSP Go has physical buttons that might feel easier to her. It's capable of impressive graphics, and has a large game selection. She'll like it a lot.
A device like the ipod touch might get frustrating to use if she's having trouble hanging on to things. Also, the ipod touch responds to any accidental taps. The way the screen reads a finger press means there's no sensitivity level. Just touched or not touched.
Agreed. Physical buttons is the way to go. And the larger they are, the better.
... John Carmack is a smart individual. ... I am surprised to see so many people bust on Carmack .... Carmack is in some eyes a programming genius. ....
Being smart has nothing to do with it.
I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.
That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.
In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.
He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
I don't really know anything about Carmack. You say he's mature and credible, but common sense and all the visible evidence says that Apple is plenty happy with their success with gamers. I for one would like to see more proof that he's believable. Show me some evidence from Apple itself that it's opposed to gaming.
Carmack as had some bad experiences with Apple I think that my be clouding his judgment. He doesn't point out in bad decision Apple has made, just vage statements that they don't suport gaming, "deep down", what ever that's suppose to mean.
Hi guys,
My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?
Thanks
I have seen several articles which state that the Wii is helpful to Parkinson's patients, e.g. link
Being smart has nothing to do with it.
I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.
That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.
In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.
He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
We all thought these people were "smart", too:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/21/p...hs-off-iphone/
http://www.chatsusa.com/f70/motorola...-iphone-19099/
http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/...s-retires-soon
I'm not including Ballmer because, well . . . you know.
Carmack has changed the face of video gaming forever. He deserves the credit. Its not just being smart at coding. Its transforming his ideas into industry wide use. ID maybe known for games like DOOM and QUAKE, but its the fact that his company's 3d game engines are used by other developers and spawning 25 other games. He may be exceedingly smart at coding, but I don't think he should put down for just being that.
Um, being smart at coding is exactly what is involved in making game engines that change the video game industry. What other skill did you imagine was involved, having a winning personality?
At any rate, I'm not putting him down for being a good programmer. I'm saying that being a good programmer doesn't make you insightful into human nature, or especially skilled at any number other areas of human endeavor.
I pointed it out because in modern geek culture "smart" is synonymous with "good programmer" and "really smart" is synonymous with "notoriously good programmer." There are all kinds of smart, and being a good programmer isn't even the better part of most of them.
Being smart has nothing to do with it.
I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.
That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.
In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.
He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.
He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.
So he's wrong then?
Since day 1 Steve Job returned to Apple, the core markets for Apple are Education and Creative. Apple still have significant shares in this two market today.
Game developers will automatically follow the trend if the platform is growing. One of the biggest reason game developers use DirectX and develop for Windows is because of Market Share.
In 2008 the NPD Group stated only $910 million of the some $18.8 billion dollars spent on game software went to the entire PC market. That means some 95% went into consoles and if you look DirectX dominates in only one console: Xbox 360 which at best a dismal 30% of the console market. Worse the DirectX the Xbox 360 is stuck at DirectX 9 as Directx 10 and higher are effectively incompatible. Everybody else in the console market is on some variant of the OpenGL bandwagon. Given some 66% of the gaming market is OpenGL running on some non Windows OS what idiot game developer is going code for Windows on a PC if marketshare is the thing?
So he's wrong then?
Well he's certainly a far cry from being right. I honestly don't know what to make of Carmack's statements. He's either clairvoyant, or he's just guessing, or someone told him something. Pick your poison.
I believe Carmack. It's quite easy to see that gaming ranks very low on the Apple list of priorities.
I had to buy and Xbox and recently a Windows 7 based pc in order to game even though I love the mac OS for everything else.
The most common reason I have heard from friends and acquaintances why they haven't purchased a mac is that you can't game well on one.
Intel Macs run Windows. Good thing you wasted your money on another computer. And your friends are not too bright either.
Well he's certainly a far cry from being right. I honestly don't know what to make of Carmack's statements. He's either clairvoyant, or he's just guessing, or someone told him something. Pick your poison.
Well we're guessing too. He's been in more contact with Apple higher ups than most of us can attest to, despite his bias. All we can go on is Apple's own marketing of the iPod touch as the gaming machine and the iPhone as more of an all-encompassing device. "Embarrassed" was AI's own interpretation of his words, but the context of what he was saying seems to suggest Apple would prefer the iPhone to be perceived as a more "serious" device rather than a gaming machine. I wouldn't call that a 'far cry' off in the least.
Perhaps Apple view hardcore gaming like a previous poster - who just slated it.
I'll say that by thinking of the iPhone solely as a gaming machine you are ignoring much of what it has to offer.
So he's wrong then?
Well ... (insert long, wordy response here).
John Carmack, creator of the classic PC game Doom, described working with Apple as a "rollercoaster ride," and suggested that company executives are not happy about the popularity of gaming on the iPhone and iPod touch.
In an interview with gaming website Kotaku, John Carmack revealed that top executives at Apple do not look fondly on the growing popularity of games on the iPod Touch and iPhone.
"At the highest level of Apple, in their heart of hearts," Carmack reportedly said, "they're not proud of the iPhone being a game machine, they wish it was something else."…With more and more established console game companies such as Electronic Arts, id Software, and Konami making serous forays into App store gaming, it seems like the iPhone/Touch will continue to be major players in the world of handheld gaming, whether Apple likes it or not.
This article is what we used to call "Prostitution of the Literature." That is taking a spin on 'what might have been stated' and not giving all the facts and letting the reader make up his own mind.
It would have been interesting to see the take on this 'interview' if this sound bite had been based on the CNBC article, i.e., iPhone Has Become Threat To Nintendo: 'Doom' Creator http://www.cnbc.com/id/33721096/site/14081545 rather than KOTAKU's Carmack: Working With Apple Is a Rollercoaster Ride http://kotaku.com/5397908/carmack-wo...yline=true&s=x
Actually, I would argue that there was an interview at all. Certainly, it does indicate such as was stated and the more comprehensive reporting evidenced in the CNBC article.
And this author's headline, to contend that "embarrassed" is the same as "not proud" is even more embarrassing. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the highest level of Apple view their success in gaming as an 'embarrassment of riches' and that has a different meaning all together.
As to conclude by saying, …whether Apple likes it or not… is really a prostitution of literature for which the author of this article should be most ashamed to admit he ever attended a course in journalism.