The statement "Microsoft copied Apples look" is true, no matter what way you look at it.
Anyone here can bring up any real or imaginary history lesson involving Microsoft, Apple, Xerox, NextStep, Sun, whatever... if that story doesn't end with Microsoft trying to make Windows 7 look like Mac OS X, then you ended the story too early.
If no computer or software company ever copied anyone else, no one reading this thread would be using a mouse or a touchscreen. Heck, you're computer wouldn't even be online, routers and modems weren't MS, Apple, or Linux originals.
Did you know that Snow Leopard shipped with a re-sizable popup keyboard built right into the OS. If that is not for touch screen applications. What is it for???????
Think and learn before you post.....
I do and I have.......
Vista had Touch features first. Did Leopard before it got Snow?? NOooooooooooooo.
I love this line: "I'd like to point out that I spent much of the 90s disappointed not that Microsoft built Windows upon concepts Apple invented for the Mac, but that Windows was such a poor copy. "
And that was one of the main reason why Apple lost their lawsuit against Microsoft for copying their Mac OS. Microsoft showed the jury that Windows did not look like the MAC OS. Which looked nothing like the GUI from Xerox. While Windows actually looked more like the GUI found on the Xerox Star computer. Bill Gates stated that both Apple and MS stole their GUI ideas from Xerox PARC. Therefore MS can't be accused of stealing from Apple.
Don't be ridiculous. Jobs asked permission to use the Xerox-developed ideas (that shoud be reflected in the wikipedia article). Xerox said okay. Xerox had no vision about how useful it was, Jobs and Wozniak had the vision. They developed the ideas much further than Xerox ever could have.
Oh I just thought Apple always invents everything and has them available first. \
I forgot:
1.) Microsoft has a Touch screen PC OS already available but Apple invented it.
2.) Microsoft had the first available Task Bar (since the 90's) but Apple invented it before they released their Dock in OSX.
You are amazing once you get going.
Apple has the best mobile touchscreen (2 1/2 years ago it turned the mobile industry upside down, and nobody's caught up yet). Apple has by far the best touch trackpad of anyone. They have chosen not to put a touchscreen on a computer. I don't get your point - you're saying that because there are PCs with touchscreens, Apple is behind in touch innovation? Hardly.
The taskbar/Doc debate is hilarious also. The 90s Microsoft Taskbar was hardly functional - less so than what Apple was doing. If I'm remembering right, there was a pull-down menu (upper right) that listed your open apps. You could actually have more than one app, and more than one window in the same app onscreen at the same time. Imagine that. Microsoft couldn't.
So who's copying who? This should quiet a lot of people from both sides.
Transparency has been part of OSX since the beginning and decent windows management is only new to Windows. As for 3D, what function did it actually perform? Probably impressive for Linux fans though.
That is such BS. First, the GUI concept predates Xerox. Second, Jeff Raskin, one of Apple's famous early engineers, was interested in GUI's before coming to Apple and Apple brought him on board partially for his knowledge in that area. To get Jobs interested as well, he talked Jobs into getting permission to check our Xerox's PARC to get inspiration for a GUI. Apple paid Xerox millions of dollars for the privilege. Further, Xerox's GUI was nothing like what Apple eventually came up. It couldn't be because Apple had to create ways to bring a GUI to an inexpensive computer, whereas Xerox's GUI was designed to work on a computer that costs over $10, 000.
Here is a source that describes the events pretty well.
look, in the field of technology, especially consumer products, there is inevitably a huge amount of "cross fertilization" among all the competitors. new techniques, new services, new concepts that any one introduces and become popular then spread rapidly throughout the entire industry. Apple has adapted a lot of ideas that others originated for its GUI and services, and vice versa. "adaptation" is a good word to use in general for this constant "borrowing" of ideas from each other. and it's a good thing.
the next level i suppose is "emulation." (def: "match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation"). if MS were being honest, they would say that in some regards they were trying to emulate the Mac GUI in W7 - and actually that pretty much is what that poor MS guy did say. and i think it is fair - and not negative - to say MS has consistently been seeking to emulate many aspects of the Apple OS since the birth of Windows in the early '90's. when they deny even that they just prove what an utter phony Ballmer is. as if more proof were needed ...
but a flat out "copy" (or pejoratively, a knock-off) has to mean almost a literal reproduction of something. like for example the new MS retail stores, a veritable copy of Apple Stores beyond any possible dispute (adding one or two tweaks is not enough).
i keep wondering about the fate of that poor honest MS guy. i envision him hunkered down at home, unable to go back to MS HQ, shamed, shunned, excoriated, and of course doomed. the leper of Redmond.
Windows copies/borrows/steals something here or there. .. Apple copies/borrows/steals something from Windows. It happens with software and look and feel cannot be copyrighted so Apple learned in the early 1990s. So what people. That's what progress is"
Just when one guy from ms who it seems is not a loser, a lier and counterfeiter steps up and gives the company some minimal credit for some modicum of honesty, there come then the corporate honchos to leave (again) no doubt what a sorry bunch of conniving corporate vermin they are, equal to the likes of enron and lehman brothers.
Congratulations again ms, add this one to the gargantuan list of making yourself look absolutely foolish.
What can you do - they don't have SJ's Big Brother presence to control their every breath, thought, spoken word or fart...
My intention was to point out that even Apple did some copy-jobs!
I'm just a poor German Brainwashed ex-Xerox employe !
At the PARC there was the first demonstration of GUI with the usage of the graphical elements with a mouse + group working at a document in a Network, that was 35 years ago!
Later on Microsoft has done some copies on Apple's ideas, and the copy of the Apple-Store is just pathetic!
Comments
OOOhh- a retraction.
Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?
OOOhh- a retraction.
Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?
One other thing..... If the Mac Tablet has a touch screen will you retract your statement?
Anyone here can bring up any real or imaginary history lesson involving Microsoft, Apple, Xerox, NextStep, Sun, whatever... if that story doesn't end with Microsoft trying to make Windows 7 look like Mac OS X, then you ended the story too early.
If no computer or software company ever copied anyone else, no one reading this thread would be using a mouse or a touchscreen. Heck, you're computer wouldn't even be online, routers and modems weren't MS, Apple, or Linux originals.
Did you know that Snow Leopard shipped with a re-sizable popup keyboard built right into the OS. If that is not for touch screen applications. What is it for???????
Think and learn before you post.....
I do and I have.......
Vista had Touch features first. Did Leopard before it got Snow?? NOooooooooooooo.
One other thing..... If the Mac Tablet has a touch screen will you retract your statement?
Why should I? Vista had Touch first. Did Leopard have Touch before it got Snowed? NOoooooooooooooo.
Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet.
you'd be wrong, yesterday and today.
...... and Steve Ballmer is a replicant of Steve Jobs!
No, he's the evil twin from a parallel universe.
I love this line: "I'd like to point out that I spent much of the 90s disappointed not that Microsoft built Windows upon concepts Apple invented for the Mac, but that Windows was such a poor copy. "
And that was one of the main reason why Apple lost their lawsuit against Microsoft for copying their Mac OS. Microsoft showed the jury that Windows did not look like the MAC OS. Which looked nothing like the GUI from Xerox. While Windows actually looked more like the GUI found on the Xerox Star computer. Bill Gates stated that both Apple and MS stole their GUI ideas from Xerox PARC. Therefore MS can't be accused of stealing from Apple.
Nope, Apple has stolen from XEROX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
regards,
Joerg
Don't be ridiculous. Jobs asked permission to use the Xerox-developed ideas (that shoud be reflected in the wikipedia article). Xerox said okay. Xerox had no vision about how useful it was, Jobs and Wozniak had the vision. They developed the ideas much further than Xerox ever could have.
Is there an echo in here?
Oh god- who cares? It's all perception anyway. People in the US think Henry Ford invented the automobile.
You seemed to care a lot when someone suggested Apple stole from Xerox. Not that you know it's false, you don't care. What a baby you are.
Oh I just thought Apple always invents everything and has them available first.
I forgot:
1.) Microsoft has a Touch screen PC OS already available but Apple invented it.
2.) Microsoft had the first available Task Bar (since the 90's) but Apple invented it before they released their Dock in OSX.
You are amazing once you get going.
Apple has the best mobile touchscreen (2 1/2 years ago it turned the mobile industry upside down, and nobody's caught up yet). Apple has by far the best touch trackpad of anyone. They have chosen not to put a touchscreen on a computer. I don't get your point - you're saying that because there are PCs with touchscreens, Apple is behind in touch innovation? Hardly.
The taskbar/Doc debate is hilarious also. The 90s Microsoft Taskbar was hardly functional - less so than what Apple was doing. If I'm remembering right, there was a pull-down menu (upper right) that listed your open apps. You could actually have more than one app, and more than one window in the same app onscreen at the same time. Imagine that. Microsoft couldn't.
You know with This talk of copy cop copy.
Want to
see where a lot of leopard features came from?
And I do mean a lot.
This video is 7 years or older. After the 3rd slide it goes live to an audience.
Check out this video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXv8V...=youtube_gdata
So who's copying who? This should quiet a lot of people from both sides.
Transparency has been part of OSX since the beginning and decent windows management is only new to Windows. As for 3D, what function did it actually perform? Probably impressive for Linux fans though.
McD
FAIL. Apple did not STEAL anything from Xerox.
People at Xerox didn't know what to do with the technology, so Apple LICENSED it.
Microsoft then stole it from Apple. FYI to the gullible, anyone can put anything on wiki.
TRUTH: Xerox had invested a million dollars into Apple?s development while it had no relationship with Microsoft.
Why Microsoft?s Copy-Killing Has Reached a Dead End:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/1...ed-a-dead-end/
you complain about wiki cos anyone can put anything on it, then you post roughly drafted?
hahahahaha
Here is a source that describes the events pretty well.
Nope, Apple has stolen from XEROX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
regards,
Joerg
the next level i suppose is "emulation." (def: "match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation"). if MS were being honest, they would say that in some regards they were trying to emulate the Mac GUI in W7 - and actually that pretty much is what that poor MS guy did say. and i think it is fair - and not negative - to say MS has consistently been seeking to emulate many aspects of the Apple OS since the birth of Windows in the early '90's. when they deny even that they just prove what an utter phony Ballmer is. as if more proof were needed ...
but a flat out "copy" (or pejoratively, a knock-off) has to mean almost a literal reproduction of something. like for example the new MS retail stores, a veritable copy of Apple Stores beyond any possible dispute (adding one or two tweaks is not enough).
i keep wondering about the fate of that poor honest MS guy. i envision him hunkered down at home, unable to go back to MS HQ, shamed, shunned, excoriated, and of course doomed. the leper of Redmond.
They didn't- one employee who doesn't speak for MS did.
And everyone likes Win7, except diehard Mac addicts, so I don't quite get the comparison.
He speaks for MS. Any MS employee being interviewed and making public statements is speaking for their compnay. Besides, that's all the public sees.
They are compulsively embarrassing themselves.
Just when one guy from ms who it seems is not a loser, a lier and counterfeiter steps up and gives the company some minimal credit for some modicum of honesty, there come then the corporate honchos to leave (again) no doubt what a sorry bunch of conniving corporate vermin they are, equal to the likes of enron and lehman brothers.
Congratulations again ms, add this one to the gargantuan list of making yourself look absolutely foolish.
What can you do - they don't have SJ's Big Brother presence to control their every breath, thought, spoken word or fart...
You seemed to care a lot when someone suggested Apple stole from Xerox. Not that you know it's false, you don't care. What a baby you are.
Waggghhh.
I don't? You read my mind?
How do you know how I feel or what I care about??
What an odd statement indeed.
Exactly. That's what user joergsi would claim.
http://obamapacman.com/2009/10/micro...nt-plagiarism/
No, I would never claim this!
My intention was to point out that even Apple did some copy-jobs!
I'm just a poor German Brainwashed ex-Xerox employe
At the PARC there was the first demonstration of GUI with the usage of the graphical elements with a mouse + group working at a document in a Network, that was 35 years ago!
Later on Microsoft has done some copies on Apple's ideas, and the copy of the Apple-Store is just pathetic!
Regards,
Joerg