Quote: "... could board 20 flights per year and still be less likely to be the subject of an attempted terrorist attack than to be struck by lightning."
Hmm.... the terrorists are *winning*, not because of the damage they are causing, but of the stupid response of governments and airlines...
[QUOTE=solipsism;1540526]Poking a hole isn’t enough. You need to disrupt it’s ability to maintain flight. Of course, if you want to scare everyone everywhere all you need to do is soil your underwear with PETN and light yourself on fire.
Mythbusters busted the explosive decompression myth awhile back…
Poking a hole isn’t enough. You need to disrupt it’s ability to maintain flight. Of course, if you want to scare everyone everywhere all you need to do is soil your underwear with PETN and light yourself on fire.
Mythbusters busted the explosive decompression myth awhile back…
First of all let me state that decompression of an commercial aircraft doesn't have to be explosive to be deadly. Remember the golfer Payne Stewart and how his jet flew for several hundred miles before eventually crashing, even after all on board were unconsious? The flight crew's' condition was observed by Air National Guard pilots. However for something like that to take place on a commercial flight, two things would have to happen. The cabin has to be breached, which would cause the pressurization system to become inoperable, and the emergency oxygen system (at least for the flight crew) has to be disabled either simutaneously with, or prior to, the breach of the cabin. And at 30,000 ft. a person will most likely become unconcious in seconds without a proper air supply. This would be a difficult thing to coordinate, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
Another scenario, which is the one that is said to have been the cause of Payne Stewarts' crash, is a simutaneous failure of the emergency oxygen system and the failure of the cabin pressurization system. And this happened without a cabin breach.
Wow! That small of a explosive can take down a plane?
According to Wikipedia, PETN is pretty explosive if you can ignite it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky
Let me try again.
First of all let me state that decompression of an commercial aircraft doesn't have to be explosive to be deadly. Remeber the golfer Payne Stewart and how his jet flew for several hundred miles before eventually crashing, even after all on board were unconsious? The flight crew's' condition was observed by Air National Guard pilots. However for something like that to take place, two things would have to happen. The cabin has to be breached and the emergency oxygen system (at least for the flight crew) has to be disabled either simutaneously with, or prior to, the breach of the cabin. A difficult thing to coordinate, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
I?ve hear ya, but that sounds awfully unlikely. Do the pilots not also have manual, oxygen tanks in the cockpit in case there is a malfunction and they need to descend to a lower atmosphere immediately? Is the autopilot not programmed to descend in case of a loss of cabin pressure?
According to Wikipedia, PETN is pretty explosive if you can ignite it.
I’ve hear ya, but that sounds awfully unlikely. Do the pilots not also have manual, oxygen tanks in the cockpit in case there is a malfunction and they need to descend to a lower atmosphere immediately? Is the autopilot not programmed to descend in case of a loss of cabin pressure?
I'm not sure about the manual O2 tanks, but that's one thing I didn't consider. From what I've been able to ascertain, jets like older Boeing 737's and the even older 727 don't have any sort of automated emergency decent sysytems that are part of the autopilot. However, I don't know about the newer models of the 737. I've got an aquaintance that is a 737 captain for a major airline. If I can contact him I'll try to find out and let you know for sure. Both the 737 and of the 727 are not normally thought of as international flyers, but there are plenty of both in use all over Central & South America. And depending on the point of origin, both aircraft can reach the U.S. or Canada, non-stop.
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the 23-year-old Nigerian ...
The boy's name was added to a list of 550,000 individuals with alleged terror connections, but was not added to the no-fly list, nor was his US visa canceled or flagged.
Um, "boy"?? I'm sure you meant "man", right? (What century is this again?)
Some changes need to be made, really all internationally arriving passengers should be undergoing a full body search and scan.
Why people from UK, Spain, Japan, France, etc has to be treated like suspects?
Here in Spain we have had terrorism since 1.959, 800 deads by ETA. And we had 290 deads by Islamic terrorism bombing trains in 2.004.
We can't live with fear and lose liberties because of that, that makes terrorists win.
I wan't to travel to USA, so some of my friends want, but with all of those measures we won't go there for vacations. We don't want to be treated like suspects.
Have you ever gone through one? I got a second screening because I had a wadded up receipt in my pocket. That goes well beyond the mission of the TSA, and that is what pisses me off. Their job is to determine if someone is a threat or not a threat.
Today (5AM, Lambert St. Louis Airport, Concourse A, lane 3) I watched as a guy went through the metal detector with a 3-4" knife sticking out of his back pocket. He made it through. TSA violated protocol in not forcing him to do a pat-down when he walked through the first time with a blackberry on his hip holster. The knife is something that the freaking detectors are supposed to catch...
Not understanding. The above seems to say it would be good to have better technology. Both seem to be targeted at standard metal detectors and screening. I assume you reported the knife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
With the millimeter wave stuff, I have little faith that the deviant on the other side of the screen isn't more interested in looking at genitalia (or whatever) than trying to find someone smuggling something through in their clothes.
And this portion seems to say that something new would be used in a deviant way. Not thinking the new scanners are designed to provide naked pics of travelers, but I could be wrong. With the above arguments, what is the solution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
(Oh, and the summary's comment that the flight attendants are too busy during the last hour to notice is a bit of BS; they are much more likely to notice something odd when they are actually standing up or walking the aisles than when they are sitting and chatting in the jumpseats. Also, it isn't that hard to know exactly where you are if you are flying a known route, especially as you approach your final destination. I was proud of myself for spotting Telluride based on a friend's description of the town while flying by at 500MPH and at 38,000 feet.)
This part make sense, agreed and cool on the spotting.
They should just tie everyone to their seats the entire flight and get over with it. If terrorists on watch lists can get on planes easily then even the new rules won't work effectively.
They should just tie everyone to their seats the entire flight and get over with it. If terrorists on watch lists can get on planes easily then even the new rules won't work effectively.
Yeah, knock all passengers out and wake only after safely landing.
We can't live with fear and lose liberties because of that, that makes terrorists win.
Exactly, but most Americans are too dumb to realize that. And that's why terrorists keep trying--because everytime they do something, failed or not, the kneejerk Americans overreact and give them all the publicity they ever dreamed of.
Exactly, but most Americans are too dumb to realize that. And that's why terrorists keep trying--because everytime they do something, failed or not, the kneejerk Americans overreact and give them all the publicity they ever dreamed of.
Comments
More tourists for the rest of us...
BTW... this is a great analysis of how this whole "terrorism" thing is hogwash:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...ne-terror.html
Quote: "... could board 20 flights per year and still be less likely to be the subject of an attempted terrorist attack than to be struck by lightning."
Hmm.... the terrorists are *winning*, not because of the damage they are causing, but of the stupid response of governments and airlines...
F.
Mythbusters busted the explosive decompression myth awhile back…[/QUOTE
sorry for the empty post. I removed it because I didn't think it through well enough until after it was up.
Poking a hole isn’t enough. You need to disrupt it’s ability to maintain flight. Of course, if you want to scare everyone everywhere all you need to do is soil your underwear with PETN and light yourself on fire.
Mythbusters busted the explosive decompression myth awhile back…
Let me try again.
First of all let me state that decompression of an commercial aircraft doesn't have to be explosive to be deadly. Remember the golfer Payne Stewart and how his jet flew for several hundred miles before eventually crashing, even after all on board were unconsious? The flight crew's' condition was observed by Air National Guard pilots. However for something like that to take place on a commercial flight, two things would have to happen. The cabin has to be breached, which would cause the pressurization system to become inoperable, and the emergency oxygen system (at least for the flight crew) has to be disabled either simutaneously with, or prior to, the breach of the cabin. And at 30,000 ft. a person will most likely become unconcious in seconds without a proper air supply. This would be a difficult thing to coordinate, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
Another scenario, which is the one that is said to have been the cause of Payne Stewarts' crash, is a simutaneous failure of the emergency oxygen system and the failure of the cabin pressurization system. And this happened without a cabin breach.
Wow! That small of a explosive can take down a plane?
According to Wikipedia, PETN is pretty explosive if you can ignite it.
Let me try again.
First of all let me state that decompression of an commercial aircraft doesn't have to be explosive to be deadly. Remeber the golfer Payne Stewart and how his jet flew for several hundred miles before eventually crashing, even after all on board were unconsious? The flight crew's' condition was observed by Air National Guard pilots. However for something like that to take place, two things would have to happen. The cabin has to be breached and the emergency oxygen system (at least for the flight crew) has to be disabled either simutaneously with, or prior to, the breach of the cabin. A difficult thing to coordinate, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
I?ve hear ya, but that sounds awfully unlikely. Do the pilots not also have manual, oxygen tanks in the cockpit in case there is a malfunction and they need to descend to a lower atmosphere immediately? Is the autopilot not programmed to descend in case of a loss of cabin pressure?
According to Wikipedia, PETN is pretty explosive if you can ignite it.
I’ve hear ya, but that sounds awfully unlikely. Do the pilots not also have manual, oxygen tanks in the cockpit in case there is a malfunction and they need to descend to a lower atmosphere immediately? Is the autopilot not programmed to descend in case of a loss of cabin pressure?
I'm not sure about the manual O2 tanks, but that's one thing I didn't consider. From what I've been able to ascertain, jets like older Boeing 737's and the even older 727 don't have any sort of automated emergency decent sysytems that are part of the autopilot. However, I don't know about the newer models of the 737. I've got an aquaintance that is a 737 captain for a major airline. If I can contact him I'll try to find out and let you know for sure. Both the 737 and of the 727 are not normally thought of as international flyers, but there are plenty of both in use all over Central & South America. And depending on the point of origin, both aircraft can reach the U.S. or Canada, non-stop.
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the 23-year-old Nigerian ...
The boy's name was added to a list of 550,000 individuals with alleged terror connections, but was not added to the no-fly list, nor was his US visa canceled or flagged.
Um, "boy"?? I'm sure you meant "man", right? (What century is this again?)
Some changes need to be made, really all internationally arriving passengers should be undergoing a full body search and scan.
Why people from UK, Spain, Japan, France, etc has to be treated like suspects?
Here in Spain we have had terrorism since 1.959, 800 deads by ETA. And we had 290 deads by Islamic terrorism bombing trains in 2.004.
We can't live with fear and lose liberties because of that, that makes terrorists win.
I wan't to travel to USA, so some of my friends want, but with all of those measures we won't go there for vacations. We don't want to be treated like suspects.
Have you ever gone through one? I got a second screening because I had a wadded up receipt in my pocket. That goes well beyond the mission of the TSA, and that is what pisses me off. Their job is to determine if someone is a threat or not a threat.
Today (5AM, Lambert St. Louis Airport, Concourse A, lane 3) I watched as a guy went through the metal detector with a 3-4" knife sticking out of his back pocket. He made it through. TSA violated protocol in not forcing him to do a pat-down when he walked through the first time with a blackberry on his hip holster. The knife is something that the freaking detectors are supposed to catch...
Not understanding. The above seems to say it would be good to have better technology. Both seem to be targeted at standard metal detectors and screening. I assume you reported the knife.
With the millimeter wave stuff, I have little faith that the deviant on the other side of the screen isn't more interested in looking at genitalia (or whatever) than trying to find someone smuggling something through in their clothes.
And this portion seems to say that something new would be used in a deviant way. Not thinking the new scanners are designed to provide naked pics of travelers, but I could be wrong. With the above arguments, what is the solution?
(Oh, and the summary's comment that the flight attendants are too busy during the last hour to notice is a bit of BS; they are much more likely to notice something odd when they are actually standing up or walking the aisles than when they are sitting and chatting in the jumpseats. Also, it isn't that hard to know exactly where you are if you are flying a known route, especially as you approach your final destination. I was proud of myself for spotting Telluride based on a friend's description of the town while flying by at 500MPH and at 38,000 feet.)
This part make sense, agreed and cool on the spotting.
I personally wish they'd TAX fast food chains soooooo much that people would be forced to eat right and at home buying good food.
what was that? think different? naw, couldn't do that...
Here is a pic of his underwear and a link to the Wikipage about the explosive he was going to use.
LMAO
Did he burn his cock off? Woulda served him right.
Terrorists suck.
That is pretty accurate.
They should just tie everyone to their seats the entire flight and get over with it. If terrorists on watch lists can get on planes easily then even the new rules won't work effectively.
Yeah, knock all passengers out and wake only after safely landing.
We can't live with fear and lose liberties because of that, that makes terrorists win.
Exactly, but most Americans are too dumb to realize that. And that's why terrorists keep trying--because everytime they do something, failed or not, the kneejerk Americans overreact and give them all the publicity they ever dreamed of.
Exactly, but most Americans are too dumb to realize that. And that's why terrorists keep trying--because everytime they do something, failed or not, the kneejerk Americans overreact and give them all the publicity they ever dreamed of.
Too true.
Um, "boy"?? I'm sure you meant "man", right? (What century is this again?)
He's 23. I think that counts as a boy in just about any century.
You feel the need to be rude often?
He was not rude.
but please stay on topic !!!
I come here daily to read Apple news and Apple news only !!!
i dont want to see pics of dirty under wear from some terrorist
for world news i got other sites bookmarked