Apple can do just as well by offering it to both T-Mo and Sprint as just offering it to Verizon. If three carriers have the iPhone, it takes a hell of a sustained marketing effort by Verizon to overcome Apples entrenched status.
Verizon will have to cave if they want the iPhone. It will hurt their margins, and they aren't going to jump into it if they can saturate potential buyers on their network with the Droid first.
Ultimately I think the MVNO route is going to offer the greatest bang-for-buck if you want Verizon's network.
how do you figure it will be just as stressed as ATT? there's no way of telling how ready vzw is for the iphone.
With a couple of thousand percent increase in data demand, how do you figure VZW won't be just as stressed as AT&T?
"AT&T wants to craft "incentives" that would compel iPhone owners to reduce demands on the company's overworked 3G cellular network. The most obvious solution is to get them to switch to wireless Wi-Fi networks whenever possible.
Wi-Fi access points, found everywhere from customers' homes to coffee shops, move bits of information directly to a wired broadband Internet connection. That's cheaper than transmitting the bits to a cell tower, as 3G does. Cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game. "Two years ago, all the carriers thought Wi-Fi was a threat" to their cellular networks, says Marc Lowenstein, a consultant who used to run marketing for Verizon Wireless. "Now it's a lifeline.""
If it is indeed true that cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game, what might happen if as few as a couple of dozen of "Verizon" iPhone (if it becomes reality) users try the same thing on Verizon's "There's a Map for That" network?
Although it would be interesting to see the data demand that is being placed on Verizon from those using the Droid or other smart phones just to see what demand IS being placed on their network.
After all, congestion is congestion. I could have a sweet ride by way of a Porsche but if the auto bon is overtaxed with a lot of other vehicles, that can alter the enjoyment of my sweet ride...
Quote:
you really dont read most of what people say. i said its a gateway device. youve obviously used a mac before the iphone. good for you, but how many people bought macs due to the iphone/itouch. if they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something where another 80+ mil people will have a chance of trying.
With all the competition entering the market, the iPhone will always have to be improved to not only maintain but attract it's user base. If they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something so originally unique where another 80+ mil people will have no disposition to leave Verizon for the chance of trying it...
With a couple of thousand percent increase in data demand, how do you figure VZW won't be just as stressed as AT&T?
"AT&T wants to craft "incentives" that would compel iPhone owners to reduce demands on the company's overworked 3G cellular network. The most obvious solution is to get them to switch to wireless Wi-Fi networks whenever possible.
Wi-Fi access points, found everywhere from customers' homes to coffee shops, move bits of information directly to a wired broadband Internet connection. That's cheaper than transmitting the bits to a cell tower, as 3G does. Cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game. "Two years ago, all the carriers thought Wi-Fi was a threat" to their cellular networks, says Marc Lowenstein, a consultant who used to run marketing for Verizon Wireless. "Now it's a lifeline.""
If it is indeed true that cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game, what might happen if as few as a couple of dozen of "Verizon" iPhone (if it becomes reality) users try the same thing on Verizon's "There's a Map for That" network?
Although it would be interesting to see the data demand that is being placed on Verizon from those using the Droid or other smart phones just to see what demand IS being placed on their network.
After all, congestion is congestion. I could have a sweet ride by way of a Porsche but if the auto bon is overtaxed with a lot of other vehicles, that can alter the enjoyment of my sweet ride...
vzw im sure has seen what the iphone has done to att's network. its easier to prepare for something after having seen the aftermath to a similar situation.
no one knows how well the network will hold up if the iphone does indeed switch to vzw, but i have a feeling they would be better prepared than att was.
Quote:
With all the competition entering the market, the iPhone will always have to be improved to not only maintain but attract it's user base. If they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something so originally unique where another 80+ mil people will have no disposition to leave Verizon for the chance of trying it...
both mine and your point can be argued about this section however. it really depends on what apple wants to do and how they want to approach this situation.
1) att's rep is bad. when service is bad, people generally blame the phone and the service. going to vzw will improve apple's brand
2) gateway device. if apple truely wants people to use the iphone as a gateway device for consumers to purchase apple computers/products, why wouldnt they want the largest US carrier to have it?
True but Apple had a contract with at&t in 2007. Then at&t was the largest US carrier. Contracts make things harder for Apple.
Sure - but I don't expect Apple to budge and walk away if necessary. For all the rhetoric, Apple doesn't need Verizon. I will laugh if verizon screws up again.
that's right. it's Verizon that is the needy one. Perhaps. Apple is doing fine even with the ATT contract. If they open up the phone with unlocked GSM it would be better for consumer and company.
As for the device cost, if Apple picks up this likely a tad pricy dual chip or sets up a second production line for CDMA you can bet they won't budge on the price. Especially not a $250 drop. Plus if they give that price to Verizon, other companies would demand it also. And Apple would have to agree or risk lawsuits galore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep
1) att's rep is bad. when service is bad, people generally blame the phone and the service. going to vzw will improve apple's brand
as would just unlocking the current phone. Then folks can't gripe that Apple is to blame for lousy service cause they chose ATT over T-Mobile etc
Quote:
2) gateway device. if apple truely wants people to use the iphone as a gateway device for consumers to purchase apple computers/products, why wouldnt they want the largest US carrier to have it?
or perhaps that role will be played by another device. a highly rumored device. that won't require folks to sign a contract with a phone service to get one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD
Both VZ and Apple are about control of the customer. Anyway, loss of exclusivity with ATT means reduced subsidy and ASP. Not good for profits.
Not at all. ATT plays full price for the phones to Apple, so Apple gets their money no matter what.
And on the customer side, no way will ATT lower their subsidy to the subscribers because to do so could drive folks to other carriers. Which would be bad. for them. competition with the subsidies and rate plans could be very very good for us.
Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been. One US company does not make difference in global mobile market. In fact T-Mobile with its owned local international networks is much bigger company than Verizon or AT&T. hence T-Mobile might be attractive to Apple..
Not like that one country is Apple's home market and has about the same population as all of western Europe with 160 million CDMA customers or anything. Apple doesn't need this mall insignificant market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adisor19
Seriously, this is pure BS. Apple will never make a CDMA version of it. It makes 0 sense. What they'll probably do is add the 1700Mhz UMTS antenna to it and call it a day. This will guarantee that T-Mobile, Wind, Dave wireless and Videotron will get the device as well.
Adi
1700mhz antenna: 34 million with spotty coverage
CDMA antenna: 90-160 million with very good coverage.
Apple can do just as well by offering it to both T-Mo and Sprint as just offering it to Verizon.
but isn't Sprint also CDMA.
so they make a phone for Sprint, locked. and folks unlock it and use it on Verizon. Same as what's happened with T-Mobile.
Also, Sprint is going WiMax not LTE so you'd make a CDMA phone for a company that is phasing out for a tech no one else is using. Don't see it happening.
Also to everyone talking about Verizon's user base etc, don't forget that there can be legal troubles when you race to the head of the pack. That Apple lacks the lead in this market is a good thing. Just like the lack of computer share is (legally) a good thing.
It would be funny if VZ's iPhone doesn't do Voice and Data at the same time as ATT's...
Rollover Minutes on ATT vs. Better Coverage on a slower Network - another consideration...
It's January 5, 2010, and according to CNN, the Google's Nexus "iPhone Killer" can be used on Any Network - thus a Q: what Universal Chip is that phone using, other than Qualcomm, and why can't iPhone use the same chip?
Verizon wants control of the device, and Apple doesn't want to give up control. Verizon is terrified of becoming nothing more than simply a carrier; they want their own app store, own apps, limits on the phones, etc.
Of course they're at odds over pricing. Verizon is anti-consumer and wants to fsck over the consumer, whereas Apple is pro-consumer and wants to protect the consumer.
Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been.
OTOH, built in obsolesence! Apple gets to sell more phones to Verizon customers when CDMA dies (despite what happens around here, lots of people *don't* upgrade their phones when the contract expires -- this would force them to do so).
Verizon is an anti-consumer company which originally turned down the iPhone for at least 5 reasons:
1. They wouldn't allow Apple to include WiFi on the iPhone. Instead, they wanted to charge their customers exorbitant per-megabyte rates to use their cell phone network to browse the Internet.
2. They wouldn't change their network to allow for visual voicemail. So instead of innovating for the future, they wanted to stifle innovation by forcing customers to check their voicemails the old fashioned way.
3. They wouldn't allow Apple to sell their own ringtones or music, which are priced very reasonably for customers. Instead, they wanted to rip off customers and be in control of selling their own ringtones & music at exorbitant prices to customers.
4. They wouldn't allow Apple to open up their own App Store. Instead, they wanted to have their OWN crappy app store on the iPhone, which is evidenced by their crappy app store on their other phones.
5. They wouldn't share any revenue with Apple for bringing new customers to Verizon.
All of this, along with the fact that...
a) Verizon phones don't work outside of the country.
b) Verizon said "fsck you" to customers by raising their early termination fee to $350.
c) VERIZON DOES NOT HAVE AN UNLIMITED DATA PLAN -- IT IS LIMITED TO 5 GB PER MONTH.
...will ensure that I NEVER do ANY business with Verizon at all.
There are several other reasons as well (not to mention their horrible customer service), but I can't remember them all now.
Okay, this whole iPhone on Verizon has reached absurdity. First, people have to realize that VZ wireless (VZW) is a seperate company from landline VZ. Parent company Vodafone does have a good rapport with Apple but VZW does not. Given that fact I would be extremely skeptical that VZW will EVER get an iPhone, let alone this year. There are several factors prohibiting this. One, Apple doesn't want to pay the high licensing fee for CDMA chips from Qualcomm. Two, VZW is focusing on Droids and the google mobile OS platform. Three, Droid users are using about 10x the bandwidth of Blackberry users just like iPhone users. Four, that high demand is placing a huge strain on the ageing EVDO Rev A network. Five, VZW is moving to LTE later in 2010 and wouldn't want a CDMA version of the iPhone that wouldn't be compatible with the new system. Six, as previously mentioned, CDMA is a dead-end technology. If VZW did get an iPhone this year and it was CDMA I wouldn't buy it. EVDO (which is a hybrid of GSM and CDMA technologies) is slow compared to HSPDA/UMTS and decrepid compared to LTE.
It's January 5, 2010, and according to CNN, the Google's Nexus "iPhone Killer" can be used on Any Network - thus a Q: what Universal Chip is that phone using, other than Qualcomm, and why can't iPhone use the same chip?
Apple is usually quite clever. Chances are, CDMA support might actually be there, but has to be unlocked. Usually, Apple isn't short-sighted and has actually prepared for this day back when the iPhone was originally released.
Comments
Verizon will have to cave if they want the iPhone. It will hurt their margins, and they aren't going to jump into it if they can saturate potential buyers on their network with the Droid first.
Ultimately I think the MVNO route is going to offer the greatest bang-for-buck if you want Verizon's network.
I bet most of these rumors begin at Verizon where they are doing their best to stop this exodus to AT&T.
If anyone is next, it will be T-Mobile.
how do you figure it will be just as stressed as ATT? there's no way of telling how ready vzw is for the iphone.
With a couple of thousand percent increase in data demand, how do you figure VZW won't be just as stressed as AT&T?
"AT&T wants to craft "incentives" that would compel iPhone owners to reduce demands on the company's overworked 3G cellular network. The most obvious solution is to get them to switch to wireless Wi-Fi networks whenever possible.
Wi-Fi access points, found everywhere from customers' homes to coffee shops, move bits of information directly to a wired broadband Internet connection. That's cheaper than transmitting the bits to a cell tower, as 3G does. Cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game. "Two years ago, all the carriers thought Wi-Fi was a threat" to their cellular networks, says Marc Lowenstein, a consultant who used to run marketing for Verizon Wireless. "Now it's a lifeline.""
If it is indeed true that cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game, what might happen if as few as a couple of dozen of "Verizon" iPhone (if it becomes reality) users try the same thing on Verizon's "There's a Map for That" network?
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...221_605613.htm
Although it would be interesting to see the data demand that is being placed on Verizon from those using the Droid or other smart phones just to see what demand IS being placed on their network.
After all, congestion is congestion. I could have a sweet ride by way of a Porsche but if the auto bon is overtaxed with a lot of other vehicles, that can alter the enjoyment of my sweet ride...
you really dont read most of what people say. i said its a gateway device. youve obviously used a mac before the iphone. good for you, but how many people bought macs due to the iphone/itouch. if they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something where another 80+ mil people will have a chance of trying.
With all the competition entering the market, the iPhone will always have to be improved to not only maintain but attract it's user base. If they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something so originally unique where another 80+ mil people will have no disposition to leave Verizon for the chance of trying it...
Whether that phone would be available for Verizon's CDMA network remains to be seen.
How true and well put!
With a couple of thousand percent increase in data demand, how do you figure VZW won't be just as stressed as AT&T?
"AT&T wants to craft "incentives" that would compel iPhone owners to reduce demands on the company's overworked 3G cellular network. The most obvious solution is to get them to switch to wireless Wi-Fi networks whenever possible.
Wi-Fi access points, found everywhere from customers' homes to coffee shops, move bits of information directly to a wired broadband Internet connection. That's cheaper than transmitting the bits to a cell tower, as 3G does. Cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game. "Two years ago, all the carriers thought Wi-Fi was a threat" to their cellular networks, says Marc Lowenstein, a consultant who used to run marketing for Verizon Wireless. "Now it's a lifeline.""
If it is indeed true that cell towers get swamped when as few as a dozen nearby iPhone users simultaneously try to watch a YouTube clip or play a game, what might happen if as few as a couple of dozen of "Verizon" iPhone (if it becomes reality) users try the same thing on Verizon's "There's a Map for That" network?
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...221_605613.htm
Although it would be interesting to see the data demand that is being placed on Verizon from those using the Droid or other smart phones just to see what demand IS being placed on their network.
After all, congestion is congestion. I could have a sweet ride by way of a Porsche but if the auto bon is overtaxed with a lot of other vehicles, that can alter the enjoyment of my sweet ride...
vzw im sure has seen what the iphone has done to att's network. its easier to prepare for something after having seen the aftermath to a similar situation.
no one knows how well the network will hold up if the iphone does indeed switch to vzw, but i have a feeling they would be better prepared than att was.
With all the competition entering the market, the iPhone will always have to be improved to not only maintain but attract it's user base. If they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something so originally unique where another 80+ mil people will have no disposition to leave Verizon for the chance of trying it...
both mine and your point can be argued about this section however. it really depends on what apple wants to do and how they want to approach this situation.
1) att's rep is bad. when service is bad, people generally blame the phone and the service. going to vzw will improve apple's brand
2) gateway device. if apple truely wants people to use the iphone as a gateway device for consumers to purchase apple computers/products, why wouldnt they want the largest US carrier to have it?
True but Apple had a contract with at&t in 2007. Then at&t was the largest US carrier. Contracts make things harder for Apple.
Sure - but I don't expect Apple to budge and walk away if necessary. For all the rhetoric, Apple doesn't need Verizon. I will laugh if verizon screws up again.
that's right. it's Verizon that is the needy one. Perhaps. Apple is doing fine even with the ATT contract. If they open up the phone with unlocked GSM it would be better for consumer and company.
As for the device cost, if Apple picks up this likely a tad pricy dual chip or sets up a second production line for CDMA you can bet they won't budge on the price. Especially not a $250 drop. Plus if they give that price to Verizon, other companies would demand it also. And Apple would have to agree or risk lawsuits galore.
1) att's rep is bad. when service is bad, people generally blame the phone and the service. going to vzw will improve apple's brand
as would just unlocking the current phone. Then folks can't gripe that Apple is to blame for lousy service cause they chose ATT over T-Mobile etc
2) gateway device. if apple truely wants people to use the iphone as a gateway device for consumers to purchase apple computers/products, why wouldnt they want the largest US carrier to have it?
or perhaps that role will be played by another device. a highly rumored device. that won't require folks to sign a contract with a phone service to get one.
Both VZ and Apple are about control of the customer. Anyway, loss of exclusivity with ATT means reduced subsidy and ASP. Not good for profits.
Not at all. ATT plays full price for the phones to Apple, so Apple gets their money no matter what.
And on the customer side, no way will ATT lower their subsidy to the subscribers because to do so could drive folks to other carriers. Which would be bad. for them. competition with the subsidies and rate plans could be very very good for us.
Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been. One US company does not make difference in global mobile market. In fact T-Mobile with its owned local international networks is much bigger company than Verizon or AT&T. hence T-Mobile might be attractive to Apple..
Not like that one country is Apple's home market and has about the same population as all of western Europe with 160 million CDMA customers or anything. Apple doesn't need this mall insignificant market.
Seriously, this is pure BS. Apple will never make a CDMA version of it. It makes 0 sense. What they'll probably do is add the 1700Mhz UMTS antenna to it and call it a day. This will guarantee that T-Mobile, Wind, Dave wireless and Videotron will get the device as well.
Adi
1700mhz antenna: 34 million with spotty coverage
CDMA antenna: 90-160 million with very good coverage.
Anyone else distracted by the use of this guy's last name in the article?
Apple can do just as well by offering it to both T-Mo and Sprint as just offering it to Verizon.
but isn't Sprint also CDMA.
so they make a phone for Sprint, locked. and folks unlock it and use it on Verizon. Same as what's happened with T-Mobile.
Also, Sprint is going WiMax not LTE so you'd make a CDMA phone for a company that is phasing out for a tech no one else is using. Don't see it happening.
Also to everyone talking about Verizon's user base etc, don't forget that there can be legal troubles when you race to the head of the pack. That Apple lacks the lead in this market is a good thing. Just like the lack of computer share is (legally) a good thing.
It would be funny if VZ's iPhone doesn't do Voice and Data at the same time as ATT's...
Rollover Minutes on ATT vs. Better Coverage on a slower Network - another consideration...
It's January 5, 2010, and according to CNN, the Google's Nexus "iPhone Killer" can be used on Any Network - thus a Q: what Universal Chip is that phone using, other than Qualcomm, and why can't iPhone use the same chip?
Why is Verizon so stubborn?
Verizon wants control of the device, and Apple doesn't want to give up control. Verizon is terrified of becoming nothing more than simply a carrier; they want their own app store, own apps, limits on the phones, etc.
Why is Verizon so stubborn?
Because they're top banana and too much like Microsoft.
Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been.
OTOH, built in obsolesence! Apple gets to sell more phones to Verizon customers when CDMA dies (despite what happens around here, lots of people *don't* upgrade their phones when the contract expires -- this would force them to do so).
Why is Verizon so stubborn?
Verizon is an anti-consumer company which originally turned down the iPhone for at least 5 reasons:
1. They wouldn't allow Apple to include WiFi on the iPhone. Instead, they wanted to charge their customers exorbitant per-megabyte rates to use their cell phone network to browse the Internet.
2. They wouldn't change their network to allow for visual voicemail. So instead of innovating for the future, they wanted to stifle innovation by forcing customers to check their voicemails the old fashioned way.
3. They wouldn't allow Apple to sell their own ringtones or music, which are priced very reasonably for customers. Instead, they wanted to rip off customers and be in control of selling their own ringtones & music at exorbitant prices to customers.
4. They wouldn't allow Apple to open up their own App Store. Instead, they wanted to have their OWN crappy app store on the iPhone, which is evidenced by their crappy app store on their other phones.
5. They wouldn't share any revenue with Apple for bringing new customers to Verizon.
All of this, along with the fact that...
a) Verizon phones don't work outside of the country.
b) Verizon said "fsck you" to customers by raising their early termination fee to $350.
c) VERIZON DOES NOT HAVE AN UNLIMITED DATA PLAN -- IT IS LIMITED TO 5 GB PER MONTH.
...will ensure that I NEVER do ANY business with Verizon at all.
There are several other reasons as well (not to mention their horrible customer service), but I can't remember them all now.
It's January 5, 2010, and according to CNN, the Google's Nexus "iPhone Killer" can be used on Any Network - thus a Q: what Universal Chip is that phone using, other than Qualcomm, and why can't iPhone use the same chip?
Apple is usually quite clever. Chances are, CDMA support might actually be there, but has to be unlocked. Usually, Apple isn't short-sighted and has actually prepared for this day back when the iPhone was originally released.