Apple, Verizon in disagreement over CDMA iPhone pricing - report

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  • Reply 41 of 102
    zepzep Posts: 130member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Verizon is an anti-consumer company which originally turned down the iPhone for at least 5 reasons:



    1. They wouldn't allow Apple to include WiFi on the iPhone. Instead, they wanted to charge their customers exorbitant per-megabyte rates to use their cell phone network to browse the Internet.



    2. They wouldn't change their network to allow for visual voicemail. So instead of innovating for the future, they wanted to stifle innovation by forcing customers to check their voicemails the old fashioned way.



    3. They wouldn't allow Apple to sell their own ringtones or music, which are priced very reasonably for customers. Instead, they wanted to rip off customers and be in control of selling their own ringtones & music at exorbitant prices to customers.



    4. They wouldn't allow Apple to open up their own App Store. Instead, they wanted to have their OWN crappy app store on the iPhone, which is evidenced by their crappy app store on their other phones.



    5. They wouldn't share any revenue with Apple for bringing new customers to Verizon.



    All of this, along with the fact that...



    a) Verizon phones don't work outside of the country.

    b) Verizon said "fsck you" to customers by raising their early termination fee to $350.

    c) VERIZON DOES NOT HAVE AN UNLIMITED DATA PLAN -- IT IS LIMITED TO 5 GB PER MONTH.



    ...will ensure that I NEVER do ANY business with Verizon at all.



    There are several other reasons as well (not to mention their horrible customer service), but I can't remember them all now.



    most of your post is just rage and plain wrong.



    1) the iphone is a smartphone. there are smart phone plans. $30/mo 5GB limit. i dont know where you got this per megabyte thing for a smart phone but enjoy being wrong.



    2) visual voice mail is on vzw's network, and has been since the iphone had it. i know, i had to try and sell it (i worked at vzw at the time). again, you're wrong.



    what vzw did want to do was charge for it, not let it be part of the phone for free.



    3) i dont know how much an iphone ringtone is, but vzw's cost is $1.99. the song is also $1.99, but you could always put music that wasnt DRM protected on any of their phones.



    4) the app store came after the deal was already made to att. in fact it came out with v2.0 of the iphone software. i dont know where you got this from in any way shape or form.



    5) unless you were there, you dont know why. dont even bother posting this stuff.



    a) yes they do, depending on the phone. there are world phones with *gasp* GSM chips in the phones! oh no!

    b) that was to protect the company from losing money from smartphones. buy phone for $150, cut line off for $175, keep phone. sell phone on ebay for $400. phone in the store costs $599. you make profit at the expense of the company.

    c) att's is the same way. there is no difference.



    summary: you're wrong.
  • Reply 42 of 102
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zep View Post


    eh, but the first time around according to rumors/reports there wasnt even a working model of the phone yet. its hard to take a risk on something you cant see/test. im sure the record company had at least a demo record of the beatles.



    and negotiations happen with any product. both sides are looking at cost/profit margin. its going to happen.



    mmm not sure AT&T saw working version either ... my point is exactly that Verizon didn't take the risk.
  • Reply 43 of 102
    gordygordy Posts: 1,004member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    Apple will never create an iPhone for a carrier/technology that does not support concurrent voice and data access.



    I bet most of these rumors begin at Verizon where they are doing their best to stop this exodus to AT&T.



    If anyone is next, it will be T-Mobile.



    I'm suprised this was only mentioned twice and yet to be rebuffed directly. VZW is a nonstarter with its current network.
  • Reply 44 of 102
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Reminds me of the record companies that turned down that unknown band called the Beatles! Here they are with a rare second chance and they argue?



    Actually, it would be more equivalent to record companies turning down the Beatles AFTER Ed Sullivan/Shea Stadium.
  • Reply 45 of 102
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    Verizon, you should know your place, you're a service provider. You're not a hardware/software manufacturer or innovator in consumer devices/software. Just know your row and keep providing that fast fiber pipe so companies like Apple can use you to propagate data and media to the masses. Fall in line Verizon, get it right.
  • Reply 46 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HJC33921 View Post


    Okay, this whole iPhone on Verizon has reached absurdity. If VZW did get an iPhone this year and it was CDMA I wouldn't buy it.



    I would. You know why? Because I want to be able to make a phone call. Having a $500 smartphone that cant make phone calls is my definition of absurdity.



    Just open the phone to all carriers and let people choose the network that is best for them.
  • Reply 47 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zep View Post


    c) att's is the same way. there is no difference.



    AT&T does not have a 5GB limit. It is true unlimited access.



    AT&T also has rollover minutes.



    AT&T supports concurrent voice / data (why would Apple go backwards?)





    Go ahead all you Verizon Fanboys....leave...enjoy your "superior" network.



    FYI...all the latest independent Wireless Carrier Tests (Gizmodo, Network World, Telephony Online,, Engadget, Root Wireless) reach the same result: AT&T has a faster and stronger network than Verizon. Go to those websites yourself and read.
  • Reply 48 of 102
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adisor19 View Post


    Seriously, this is pure BS. Apple will never make a CDMA version of it. It makes 0 sense. What they'll probably do is add the 1700Mhz UMTS antenna to it and call it a day. This will guarantee that T-Mobile, Wind, Dave wireless and Videotron will get the device as well.



    Adi



    Please explain why it makes 0 sense? There are no significant technical or economical reasons to not make a CDMA phone. So from a business perspective, it makes little sense to NOT make one. It would significantly increase Apple's marketshare and profits.



    I'm not saying Apple will make one. Just that there are far more rational reasons for making one than against.
  • Reply 49 of 102
    zepzep Posts: 130member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    AT&T does not have a 5GB limit. It is true unlimited access.



    AT&T also has rollover minutes.



    AT&T supports concurrent voice / data (why would Apple go backwards?)





    Go ahead all you Verizon Fanboys....leave...enjoy your "superior" network.



    FYI...all the latest independent Wireless Carrier Tests (Gizmodo, Network World, Telephony Online,, Engadget, Root Wireless) reach the same result: AT&T has a faster and stronger network than Verizon. Go to those websites yourself and read.



    you sure about that they dont have a 5gb limit?



    Quote:

    We may, at our discretion, suspend your account if we believe your data usage is excessive, unusual or is better suited to another rate plan. If you are on a data plan that does not include a monthly MB/GB allowance and additional data usage rates, you agree that AT&T has the right to impose additional charges if you use more than 5 GB in a month; provided that, prior to the imposition of any additional charges, AT&T shall provide you with notice and you shall have the right to terminate your Service.



    from att's terms and conditions. verizons says basically the same thing. doesnt mean there is a hard limit, but they can charge more if they feel like it and give you notice.



    go ahead you att fanboy. keep clinging to att and getting your "stronger" network dropping calls.
  • Reply 50 of 102
    timontimon Posts: 152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post


    Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been. One US company does not make difference in global mobile market. In fact T-Mobile with its owned local international networks is much bigger company than Verizon or AT&T. hence T-Mobile might be attractive to Apple.



    That's understandable that Apple is hestistant and Verizon has only customer base to offer, but that can dwindle over time. Verizon is not growing anymore. Others are. Competitive edge is where growth is that sooner or later will take away market from those who do not grow on established market.



    If the new iPhone has the Qualcomm chipset that does GSM, CDMA and LTE then all bases are covered no matter which carrier it goes to except for Sprint who is sticking with WiMax for some unknown stupid reason.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    Apple will never create an iPhone for a carrier/technology that does not support concurrent voice and data access.



    I bet most of these rumors begin at Verizon where they are doing their best to stop this exodus to AT&T.



    If anyone is next, it will be T-Mobile.



    Sure the will if they include LTE since they know that Verizon will be deploying LTE at the start of 2011.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post


    Verizon wants control of the device, and Apple doesn't want to give up control. Verizon is terrified of becoming nothing more than simply a carrier; they want their own app store, own apps, limits on the phones, etc.



    Old news that people keep quoting. Verizon gave up control when they released the Droid phones.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Verizon is an anti-consumer company which originally turned down the iPhone for at least 5 reasons:



    1. They wouldn't allow Apple to include WiFi on the iPhone. Instead, they wanted to charge their customers exorbitant per-megabyte rates to use their cell phone network to browse the Internet.



    True, but it's old news now so it doesn't matter anymore.



    Quote:

    2. They wouldn't change their network to allow for visual voicemail. So instead of innovating for the future, they wanted to stifle innovation by forcing customers to check their voicemails the old fashioned way.



    True, but it's old news since they have VVM. Only problem is they want to charge $1.99 for it which most people won't do.



    Quote:

    3. They wouldn't allow Apple to sell their own ringtones or music, which are priced very reasonably for customers. Instead, they wanted to rip off customers and be in control of selling their own ringtones & music at exorbitant prices to customers.



    You don't know that for sure although it's likely true but again it's old news now. You can get your ringtones from any place you want and Verizon won't try and stop you.



    Quote:

    4. They wouldn't allow Apple to open up their own App Store. Instead, they wanted to have their OWN crappy app store on the iPhone, which is evidenced by their crappy app store on their other phones.



    Again, old news. Verizon no longer trys to control apps. The Droid phones are totally open and so will iPhones when they get them.



    Quote:

    5. They wouldn't share any revenue with Apple for bringing new customers to Verizon.



    All of this, along with the fact that...



    a) Verizon phones don't work outside of the country.

    b) Verizon said "fsck you" to customers by raising their early termination fee to $350.

    c) VERIZON DOES NOT HAVE AN UNLIMITED DATA PLAN -- IT IS LIMITED TO 5 GB PER MONTH.



    New phones with LTE will work outside the US as more carriers move to LTE. If the phone has the Qualcomm chip set then it will be able to work anywhere just and the BB world phones do.



    We'll see what the Feds do with the $350 fee but unless you planning to leave why do you care?



    AT&T doesn't have unlimited either. Both carriers will start asking questions if you go over 5GB.
  • Reply 51 of 102
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post


    Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been. One US company does not make difference in global mobile market. In fact T-Mobile with its owned local international networks is much bigger company than Verizon or AT&T. hence T-Mobile might be attractive to Apple.



    That's understandable that Apple is hestistant and Verizon has only customer base to offer, but that can dwindle over time. Verizon is not growing anymore. Others are. Competitive edge is where growth is that sooner or later will take away market from those who do not grow on established market.





    You guys forget that CDMA is not exclusive to the US and that many countries including China have CDMA networks. VZW will begin the transition to LTE starting this year and initially use it for data only and CDMA for voice. Once LTE is available across the entire footprint and LTE handsets pretty common it would be easy to abandon the CDMA network. For those of you that don't remember, ATT was using TDMA at the time they were purchased by Cingular. All those customers had to then buy a GSM phone. VZW is being stubborn for the customers sake. For those of you that are not nor ever have been a VZW customer this is how they operate. If I were to buy a droid today it would cost me $99 because I'm at the end of my 2 year contract and VZW gives me a $100 credit towards a new phone. In 10 months if I wanted another phone I would pay the same price a new customer would. Not like ATT that wanted to charge a $200 upgrade fee to those that had a 3G and wanted the 3GS. Business 101 will teach you that its better to sell 10 million units at a 20% profit than 1 million at 40%. Now don't kill me on those numbers. I understand the position of both companies and both have been doing quite well. I think they should reach a compromise but one that will favor Apple.
  • Reply 52 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    Why is Verizon so stubborn?



    Because of how Apple ran away with AT&T.



    Verizon is a bigger company and has more to offer than AT&T (like reliability). So, they are not as easy to shake down. This is said with no disrespect for Apple. They (Steve) are an incredible phone and computer company. The best! They also possess fantastic business acumen.



    The biggest obstacle I see to Apple going to Verizon is Android taking over the market. Looking at product quality and customer satisfaction, it could easily happen.



    But let's face it, the iPhone is coming to Verizon. It is just too sweet a deal for both companies. They will hammer it out and the ones who will pay will be us, the customers, via late and hidden fees.
  • Reply 53 of 102
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Timon View Post


    If the new iPhone has the Qualcomm chipset that does GSM, CDMA and LTE then all bases are covered no matter which carrier it goes to except for Sprint who is sticking with WiMax for some unknown stupid reason.









    Sure the will if they include LTE since they know that Verizon will be deploying LTE at the start of 2011.









    Old news that people keep quoting. Verizon gave up control when they released the Droid phones.







    True, but it's old news now so it doesn't matter anymore.







    True, but it's old news since they have VVM. Only problem is they want to charge $1.99 for it which most people won't do.







    You don't know that for sure although it's likely true but again it's old news now. You can get your ringtones from any place you want and Verizon won't try and stop you.







    Again, old news. Verizon no longer trys to control apps. The Droid phones are totally open and so will iPhones when they get them.







    New phones with LTE will work outside the US as more carriers move to LTE. If the phone has the Qualcomm chip set then it will be able to work anywhere just and the BB world phones do.



    We'll see what the Feds do with the $350 fee but unless you planning to leave why do you care?



    AT&T doesn't have unlimited either. Both carriers will start asking questions if you go over 5GB.



    We can all agree that VZW has significantly changed in the last 3 yrs. IMO the exclusivity deal hasn't been extended because I'm sure ATT isn't gonna allow Apple to rape them a second time. If ATT is paying $700 per iPhone and the only diffrence between a cust with a flip phone and the iPhone is the $30 data plan then its takes ATT two full yrs to recover that money. If Apple wants to grow market share wise then eventually their gonna have to change a little as well.
  • Reply 54 of 102
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    Why is Verizon so stubborn?



    Verizon fancies themselves more than a purveyor of bits (i.e. a dumb pipe)



    That's the real heartburn - the iPhone turns them into that. I sincerly doubt apple will let them load up the iPhone with all the crap apps that were on the verizon blackberry I just configured for one of our users.
  • Reply 55 of 102
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eclypse View Post


    Um, what?



    Anyone else distracted by the use of this guy's last name in the article?



    Pffft! That guy thinks he's soooo cool with his two letter name.



    Well that does it, i'm going out and changing my name to a single letter. Beat that Mr. Um!
  • Reply 56 of 102
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    Why is Apple so stubborn to at least provide the OPTION of Blu-Ray movie playback on Macs?





    1) Blueray licensing, while a little better, still sucks



    2) Very few people watch movies on their computers, let alone have screen resolution that benefits from hi-def



    3) Bluray is still minority marketshare



    I'm not saying they will never offer it, but I fully understand why they don't right now.
  • Reply 57 of 102
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by electraluxx View Post


    Verizon is a bigger company and has more to offer than AT&T (like reliability).



    Not to start a this-carrier-is-better-or-worse-war...



    But keep in mind that the unprecedented level of data usage by AT&T's iPhone customers caused much of the problem. A few thousand percent increase in traffic is pretty hard to deal with...
  • Reply 58 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post


    To Verizon and Apple:



    Listen you guys. I don't know what your problem is and I don't care. Make the deal and get it done. We have been waiting three years. That is long enough.



    And this summer is too long to wait. Have the Verizon iPhone ( the ViPhone?) ready for the special event you have coming up. And a new Apple TV too while you're at it. I have a wallet full of cash! Don't you want some of it? You know you do.



    Yeah dude, it ain't happening. Get over it!



    Apple doesn't need Verizon, Verizon doesn't need Apple. It's plain and simple.

    If Apple doesn't want them to control their device with Verizons crappy VCast ans stuff, and Verizon doesn't want Apple to control the Verizon network, than they're both in an equal disagreement.

    I hate it, when people, that don't have common sense, and know nothing about cell phones, and carriers, say.. "Oh! the iPhone is coming to Verizon this year. I'm waiting for it." or "They're already making the iPhone Nano. And it's gonna be on Verizon." or "People on the news said so, and i think it's true because they're are rumors." and then they think Apple is already unveiling stuff out of the blue! Seriously, good lord, just shut up!

    I'm gonna share a true story, and something you can look up to yourself.

    If you go to YouTube, and you type in- "Part 11 - Macworld 2007 - Steve Jobs Keynote Speech - iPhone" and whatch about the beginning of 11th video of when Steve Jobs announced that Cingular(AT&T) Would become the exclusive carrier of the iPhone. Moments after having Cingulars CEO walk off the stage and having Steve come back up, Steve told everybody at MacWorld, at 0:57 "we have worked wonderfully together, and we love these guys."

    and at 1:01 he actually said!!!-"We're gonna bring some great stuff to market over the years TOGETHER!"

    Uh, hello? doesn't that ring a bell? A possible tablet under the AT&T network?

    Seriously guys, open your minds and think about it and don't go along with what people say and the rumors they hear.

    That's why Apple built a phone, so it can call and ring all over the world with GSM carriers. That's why they came up with the iPhone 3G S, so it can go blazing fast on downloads and browser, on the device, and on the country's fastest 3G network.

    They see this phone as a smart, intelligent, business also phone. So you can talk & browse, etc.

    If Apple were to come up with another carrier, i'm sure it'd probably be T-Mobile.



    but seriously, take a look at that MacWorld keynote.
  • Reply 59 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macologist View Post




    It's January 5, 2010, and according to CNN, the Google's Nexus "iPhone Killer" can be used on Any Network - thus a Q: what Universal Chip is that phone using, other than Qualcomm, and why can't iPhone use the same chip?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    Apple is usually quite clever. Chances are, CDMA support might actually be there, but has to be unlocked. Usually, Apple isn't short-sighted and has actually prepared for this day back when the iPhone was originally released.



    Update! http://www.electronista.com/articles...hone.unveiling is NOT UNIVERSAL Support Chip! How IRRESPONSIBLE of CNN "reporters" to be so vague, and effect stock prices that way! No surprise... I can't wait till 1/27/10 Event to see what Apple Introduces!
  • Reply 60 of 102
    macslutmacslut Posts: 514member
    I find it hard to believe that it would cost Apple more money to develop and produce CDMA iPhones that it would receive in increased revenue from Verizon customers who would refuse to switch or are unable to switch to AT&T.



    Increased cost of CDMA = $1 billion???



    Increased revenue (to Apple) from new iPhone customers locked into Verizon > $1 billion???



    It's not about CDMA not being the future. It's not about 4G. It's not about "liking each other". It's not about GSM being the dominate protocol.



    Sure there a lot of other factors that influence this decision as minor variables...such as the potential to squeeze out other developing platforms. The potential of current AT&T subscribers buying an iPhone because they wanted one all along but wanted to wait to get one until AT&T could handle the load (which they may be in a better position after the exodus to Verizon). Better halo effect, etc...



    But at the end of it, it's all about making money versus the costs involved.
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