Apple, Verizon in disagreement over CDMA iPhone pricing - report

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  • Reply 61 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adisor19 View Post


    Seriously, this is pure BS. Apple will never make a CDMA version of it. It makes 0 sense. What they'll probably do is add the 1700Mhz UMTS antenna to it and call it a day. This will guarantee that T-Mobile, Wind, Dave wireless and Videotron will get the device as well.



    Adi



    Of course it makes sense to release a CDMA iPhone. It forces consumers to buy new equipment from apple and not use existing iPhones, hence more $$$ for Apple. I know plenty of people willing to jump the ATT ship at almost any cost. Plus Apple can still release an LTE iPhone in 2011 and make even more $$$.



    Plus CDMA is just a better service, sure 3G isn't as fast and no simultaneous data/voice, but that's because EVDO was 1st to market years ahead of GSM 3G. It's more secure, better call quality, better hand-off, less dropped calls. This would sure clear up the grief the iPhone gets as a "PHONE" (http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/11/...-worlds-worst/) . Last time I checked, the US military wasn't using GSM, but they do use CDMA. I don't see ATT winning any service awards lately do you? One more thing GSM is just as dead and obsolete as CDMA with LTE on the horizon. Therefore releasing another re-tooled GSM iPhone is just as stupid as releasing a CDMA.



    Just as other posters have said. Apple ain't hurting for $$$, but neither is Verizon and with the Android devices coming on so hard and fast, really the iPhone has lost a lot of luster. That is unless Steve-o can keep up with what google is doing so quickly, and I am sure he will try and that means saturation. He has to get the iPhone in everyone's hands and keeping it on 1 or 2 providers ain't gonna do that.
  • Reply 62 of 102
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    I'm not saying Apple will make one. Just that there are far more rational reasons for making one than against.



    Assuming all parties are being rational, you are correct in there is no reason to not do a CDMA iPhone.



    But, it sounds like Verizon is being their usual arrogant selves.



    Why should they get a better deal than AT&T? They took no risk. The iPhone is a success without them now. Despite the clever advertising, their network is't that much better then AT&T's - actually as has been pointed out their network is slower.



    Apple doesn't need Verizon. They would be nice to have, but Apple doesn't need to cut any sort of deal with Verizon - it's the other way around. AT&T has beat them on adds for three quarters in a row - probably four now. There is no Alltell for Verizon to buy to artificially pump up their numbers. Other then "the network" and their narrow lead in total subscribers what's so special about them?



    Nothing.
  • Reply 63 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Of course they're at odds over pricing. Verizon is anti-consumer and wants to fsck over the consumer, whereas Apple is pro-consumer and wants to protect the consumer.



    WOW...It's business! They are both pro-money otherwise why isn't Apple open source. It's just another greedy corporation. This Apple demagoguery has to stop!
  • Reply 64 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Verizon is an anti-consumer company which originally turned down the iPhone for at least 5 reasons:



    1. They wouldn't allow Apple to include WiFi on the iPhone. Instead, they wanted to charge their customers exorbitant per-megabyte rates to use their cell phone network to browse the Internet.



    2. They wouldn't change their network to allow for visual voicemail. So instead of innovating for the future, they wanted to stifle innovation by forcing customers to check their voicemails the old fashioned way.



    3. They wouldn't allow Apple to sell their own ringtones or music, which are priced very reasonably for customers. Instead, they wanted to rip off customers and be in control of selling their own ringtones & music at exorbitant prices to customers.



    4. They wouldn't allow Apple to open up their own App Store. Instead, they wanted to have their OWN crappy app store on the iPhone, which is evidenced by their crappy app store on their other phones.



    5. They wouldn't share any revenue with Apple for bringing new customers to Verizon.



    All of this, along with the fact that...



    a) Verizon phones don't work outside of the country.

    b) Verizon said "fsck you" to customers by raising their early termination fee to $350.

    c) VERIZON DOES NOT HAVE AN UNLIMITED DATA PLAN -- IT IS LIMITED TO 5 GB PER MONTH.



    ...will ensure that I NEVER do ANY business with Verizon at all.



    There are several other reasons as well (not to mention their horrible customer service), but I can't remember them all now.



    Wrong... Verizon doesn't BETA test phones. That was the main reason. It lets the others take all the risks. In this case it was a big risk as Apple never made a cell phone before and wanted too much for it, including pricey one-off network upgrades and costly subsidies. Of course we can all look back and say what a mistake (in this case it was), but what if the iPhone was the next Newton. One thing you forgot, when the VZW/Apple talks were going down in 2007 VZW was still feeling the sting of it's PTT (Push-To-Talk) debacle. Don't worry about it. The phone WILL come to Verizon. It is inevitable. There is too much money to be made.
  • Reply 65 of 102
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adisor19 View Post


    Seriously, this is pure BS. Apple will never make a CDMA version of it. It makes 0 sense. What they'll probably do is add the 1700Mhz UMTS antenna to it and call it a day. This will guarantee that T-Mobile, Wind, Dave wireless and Videotron will get the device as well.



    Adi



    It didn't make sense in the past. There are new hybrid CDMA/GSM chips, so it might make sense now.
  • Reply 66 of 102
    bregaladbregalad Posts: 816member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zep View Post


    how do you figure it will be just as stressed as ATT? there's no way of telling how ready vzw is for the iphone.



    you really dont read most of what people say. i said its a gateway device. youve obviously used a mac before the iphone. good for you, but how many people bought macs due to the iphone/itouch. if they want to reach as many US people as possible to get more people to use apple products, its smart business to make something where another 80+ mil people will have a chance of trying.



    CDMA wont die off. the audio codec will be used for a very long time due to its a much cleaner and now, more secure codec than GSM. the dual channel chips made by qualcomm will ensure the longevity of cdma in the US while still being able to offer gsm to the world.



    in the US its hard to grow subscribers. sprint bleeds them every quarter. vzw and att still have net adds. im honestly not sure how tmobile does, but im sure its losing some customers every quarter. its no more or less steal customers from 1 wireless company and put them in your own.



    iPhone users are notorious data hogs. There's little doubt that vzw would have some serious issues if they suddenly had a couple million iPhone users added to their network on top of the Blackberry and Droid ones.



    I agree with the gateway device theory and accept that Americans are Apple's prime target market, but 80 million people is a tiny fraction of the world wide market.



    I remain convinced CDMA will wither and die, driven out of existence by demands for simultaneous voice and data and the roll out of 4G networks. Here in Canada the CDMA providers (Bell, Telus and their myriad of subsidiaries) were under so much pressure to offer the iPhone that they're routing voice calls over their shared data network. They still sell CDMA phones too so I expect the towers will continue to support those signals for a minimum of three years (standard contract length in Canada), but I wouldn't be surprised to see CDMA as we know it disappear completely at the end of 2014.
  • Reply 67 of 102
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zep View Post


    1) att's rep is bad. when service is bad, people generally blame the phone and the service. going to vzw will improve apple's brand

    2) gateway device. if apple truely wants people to use the iphone as a gateway device for consumers to purchase apple computers/products, why wouldnt they want the largest US carrier to have it?



    Rethink AT&T's rep when Apple's quarter numbers come out and more of Verizon's base is gouged.
  • Reply 68 of 102
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post


    Adding more phones to the mix (we have 3G, 3GS and Chinese versions already) splits the effort on the Engr end and invites REAL comparisons between carriers with twice the support issues. What is in it for Apple? I don't think it would increase sales appreciably and the extra cost due to support, Engr, extra inventory, etc probably wipes that out.



    [My emphasis added.]



    First, I believe the extra engineering, inventory, etc is trivial. Many phone makers are able to manage versions of their phones for different carriers. To suggest that Apple couldn't do the same is an insult to Apple. Apple has multiple versions of nearly all of their products. They offer 3 different stock configurations of 15" MBP, and the option to custom configure any of them. Having another version of the iPhone would be child's play for them to manage.



    As far as not increasing sales appreciably... I haven't looked at recent sales figures, but last I saw, US iPhone sales represented 50% of total sales worldwide (including US). Verizon has a slightly larger customer base than ATT. Assuming the same penetration, having the iPhone on Verizon would increase iPhone sales by 50%! Even if you assume only half the penetration with Verizon (taking into account that a lot of Verizon customers already defected to ATT), that still represents a 25% increase in iPhone sales.



    I would call that an appreciable increase in sales.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post


    Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out.



    CDMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It will still be available on Verizon's network long after the typical lifetime of an iPhone sold in 2010. Or do you think Verizon is going to abandon all of it's CDMA using customers at the end of 2012 or something? It would make perfect sense to offer a CDMA iPhone now to get you onto the iPhone platform (and locked in once you've bought a bunch of applications). That would provide a clear upgrade path to an LTE iPhone once that becomes the standard.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    Apple will never create an iPhone for a carrier/technology that does not support concurrent voice and data access.



    Of course, Verizon could simply implement the newly approved CDMA standard that allows for simultaneous voice/data. In fact, ATT's current ad campaign my entice them to do just that.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Verizon is an anti-consumer company which originally turned down the iPhone for at least 5 reasons:



    Of course, we all know that you do not have a shred of evidence to support a single one of your 5 reasons.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    FYI...all the latest independent Wireless Carrier Tests (Gizmodo, Network World, Telephony Online,, Engadget, Root Wireless) reach the same result: AT&T has a faster and stronger network than Verizon. Go to those websites yourself and read.



    And yet every Consumer Reports customer survey for at least the past 5 years, since long before the iPhone brought the ATT network to its knees, has put Verizon at the top of the rankings and ATT at/near the bottom. Consistently, every year.



    Historically speaking, Windows computers were faster than Macs. We were stuck on 1.5 GHz when Windows PC were pushing nearly 3 GHz. How many switched to PCs just because of that one number? Just saying that it's more than pure speed that matters, like usability...like not constantly dropping calls, or being able to use my phone at all when I go to my parent's house in a small town.
  • Reply 69 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    iPhone users are notorious data hogs. There's little doubt that vzw would have some serious issues if they suddenly had a couple million iPhone users added to their network on top of the Blackberry and Droid ones.



    I agree with the gateway device theory and accept that Americans are Apple's prime target market, but 80 million people is a tiny fraction of the world wide market.



    I remain convinced CDMA will wither and die, driven out of existence by demands for simultaneous voice and data and the roll out of 4G networks. Here in Canada the CDMA providers (Bell, Telus and their myriad of subsidiaries) were under so much pressure to offer the iPhone that they're routing voice calls over their shared data network. They still sell CDMA phones too so I expect the towers will continue to support those signals for a minimum of three years (standard contract length in Canada), but I wouldn't be surprised to see CDMA as we know it disappear completely at the end of 2014.



    Why did apple release a 2G iphone when ATT had 3G, that was more idiotic. 4 years is an eternity in the cell phone world. I don't see your point. Most people change phones every 2 years. VZW will not have full 4G LTE until 2013-2014, and look how long VZW held onto analog AMPS after CDMA was introduced. It was at least 8-10 years. At the rate ATT puts up 3G, they wont have LTE until 2020
  • Reply 70 of 102
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post


    Because CDMA is dead end and its support time runs out. The fact of customer base for one network will not last forever. 70% of the world is not on CDMA and never has been. One US company does not make difference in global mobile market. In fact T-Mobile with its owned local international networks is much bigger company than Verizon or AT&T. hence T-Mobile might be attractive to Apple.



    The US is 1/3 of the world's GDP and about 1/3 of most world markets. Verizon is the biggest US carrier. When the iPhone went multicarrier in France, it went from 15% of the smartphone market there to 40% in a few months. CDMA may be dead end technology, but why not support it for now: people are going to buy a new phone in a couple of years anyways, so its all obsolete soon.
  • Reply 71 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Rethink AT&T's rep when Apple's quarter numbers come out and more of Verizon's base is gouged.



    How so... VZW had 1.2M net adds last quarter and 1.1M the quarter before that. That doesn't factor in the Droid's release.
  • Reply 72 of 102
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NormM View Post


    The US is 1/3 of the world's GDP and about 1/3 of most world markets. Verizon is the biggest US carrier. When the iPhone went multicarrier in France, it went from 15% of the smartphone market there to 40% in a few months. CDMA may be dead end technology, but why not support it for now: people are going to buy a new phone in a couple of years anyways, so its all obsolete soon.



    I concur!
  • Reply 73 of 102
    zepzep Posts: 130member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Rethink AT&T's rep when Apple's quarter numbers come out and more of Verizon's base is gouged.



    rethink your statement.



    att's rep is garbage. you are comparing APPLE'S NUMBERS to att's rep. you cant. those two things arent even in the same field. the only reason att is still standing worth a crap is the iphone.
  • Reply 74 of 102
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    if Verizon refuses to cooperate, Apple should just cut a deal with TMobile and leave Verizon odd man out. that will hurt Verizon with its dead-end CDMA more than Apple. Apple marketing can point out that CDMA is 'soon to be obsolete.'
  • Reply 75 of 102
    ibillibill Posts: 400member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    AT&T does not have a 5GB limit. It is true unlimited access.



    Go ahead all you Verizon Fanboys....leave...enjoy your "superior" network.



    They're not fanboys, they're "verizontards"
  • Reply 76 of 102
    ifailifail Posts: 463member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    1) Blueray licensing, while a little better, still sucks



    2) Very few people watch movies on their computers, let alone have screen resolution that benefits from hi-def



    3) Bluray is still minority marketshare



    I'm not saying they will never offer it, but I fully understand why they don't right now.



    Few do watch movies on their computer...but for the new iMac that thing would be an even sweeter deal to watch Blu-Ray on (idk if it supports 1080p res). Mac Mini or AppleTV would be quite nice for Blu-Ray. Ill hold steady with my PS3 though



    Blu-Ray is picking up pretty well but most cant justify switching TVs out to go from 720p/1080i to 1080p and when China starts slinging $99 BR players at us, i think we'll see a huge jump.







    ANYWAYS back to the topic...



    Who cares if Verizon gets the iPhone or not? You fanboys want to dig at Verizon every chance you get, but simply put Verizon has still done remarkably well WITHOUT the iPhone. While im sure VZW does want the iPhone, i wouldnt expect them to bend over backwards for it while other carriers will.
  • Reply 77 of 102
    ifailifail Posts: 463member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    if Verizon refuses to cooperate, Apple should just cut a deal with TMobile and leave Verizon odd man out. that will hurt Verizon with its dead-end CDMA more than Apple. Apple marketing can point out that CDMA is 'soon to be obsolete.'



    How is CDMA going to be obsolete? Is 3G going to be obsolete? Isnt EDGE already obsolete?



    Why do people assume that CDMA is just going to wither away and die? 1XEV and 3G will be the new EDGE when we are all running on LTE in a few years.
  • Reply 78 of 102
    mudpudmudpud Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by electraluxx View Post


    Because of how Apple ran away with AT&T.



    Verizon is a bigger company and has more to offer than AT&T (like reliability). So, they are not as easy to shake down. This is said with no disrespect for Apple. They (Steve) are an incredible phone and computer company. The best! They also possess fantastic business acumen.



    The biggest obstacle I see to Apple going to Verizon is Android taking over the market. Looking at product quality and customer satisfaction, it could easily happen.



    But let's face it, the iPhone is coming to Verizon. It is just too sweet a deal for both companies. They will hammer it out and the ones who will pay will be us, the customers, via late and hidden fees.



    Thank you! Too many VZW haters in here. To all the haters: your posts are sooo 2001. The Big Red has luckily stopped massacring smartphones and any of their high end multimedia phones. BREW is gone - thank God! I have a Storm and I can't wait to get the iPhone. CDMA is here to stay - for years to come. LTE will initially be deployed for DATA only (akin to Sprint's WiMax, which is already in existence and currently only data devices work on WiMax). AT&T is at least a year behind Verizon in terms of LTE, probably longer. AT&T first has to fix their mess with regular 3G before they move on to LTE. Apple knows all this and they WILL make a deal with Verizon. Just wait and see...I told you so



    And by the way, Verizon's EVDO might be a bit slower than HSPA, but wouldn't you rather have a fast network than a slightly faster network that is spotty at best???
  • Reply 79 of 102
    mudpudmudpud Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jareskog View Post


    Why did apple release a 2G iphone when ATT had 3G, that was more idiotic. 4 years is an eternity in the cell phone world. I don't see your point. Most people change phones every 2 years. VZW will not have full 4G LTE until 2013-2014, and look how long VZW held onto analog AMPS after CDMA was introduced. It was at least 8-10 years. At the rate ATT puts up 3G, they wont have LTE until 2020



    Totally agreed. I used to have AT&T when they were Cingular and they sucked. Real bad. Once, I used my cell phone to call a 1-800 calling card number to call abroad and even though I only used my Cingular phone to call a US 1-800 number, and only then dialed the foreign number after confirming my PIN, they said that Cingular policy is that they charge customers as if they dialed the number directly!!!! How ludicrous.



    I switched to Verizon in 2005 and I have been sooooooooooooo freakin' happy. I get free trials, late fee payment deductions, new phones, calling card functionality. None of the AT&T hassles. All I'm missing now is an iPhone to go with my MBP. And that is soon to come...
  • Reply 80 of 102
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    1) Blueray licensing, while a little better, still sucks



    Yet a number of companies still manage to do it



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    2) Very few people watch movies on their computers, let alone have screen resolution that benefits from hi-def



    Every Mac sold can do 720p, which looks fine for HD, it looks a heck of a lot better than DVD on the same screen.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    3) Bluray is still minority marketshare



    I'm not saying they will never offer it, but I fully understand why they don't right now.



    [/QUOTE]



    Blu-ray is a minority marketshare? Yet it is still far ahead of digital downloads, and Apple supports that.
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