That isn?t how life works. If you want complete control then format and install Linux on it, but what ever you do stop bitching that Apple makes a complete solution for the average user who just wants a smartphone that works as advertised.
I'm not aware that installing an alternative OS is a possibility. I think a better strategy is to wait for the ATT Android phones and then check them out to see if one may be a better choice for me. In the meantime, the iPhone, warts and all, is clearly my best choice.
And if you don't like to hear me, you have a complete solution available to you. I'll continue to reade your posts, however. You occasionally have an interesting perspective.
Then you should be able to sell your iPhone and get something else pretty easily. Resale for iPhones, as others have pointed out, is really good.
Yeah, but none of the better phones work on ATT, and I'm locked into them for another 1.5 years. If I had the choices then that I have now, I'd check out TMob to see if their reception is good in the Boston area.
Yeah. And you're so interested in establishing the negatives of Apple's customers that it precludes you from noticing when someone is being a bit tongue in cheek.
Sorry for being obtuse. I didn't realize. Excuse me for mistaking your comments for those of the rabid fanbois who are currently piling on and moving the goalposts.
Was Apple "aloof" when they released the original iPhone?
Yes, they were. jobs has stated several times over the years that Apple doesn't compete with others, just with themselves.
That's certainly aloof.
Quote:
Perhaps, perhaps they aren't fully baked yet. That's my point.
i know your point. I also know software development.
Quote:
Your absolutely right it's up to Apple how they releases new features. My point is, they will do it when it makes sense in the context of the overall experience. Apple rarely is reactionary to their competitors - indeed, the majority of the time it's the competitors that are reacting to Apple - and for good reason. Many of the killer "features" that have been cited as compelling on Android and the Pre in actually are just incremental checklist features that matter mainly to geeks. The evidence is in the sales (or lack of) of these devices compared to the iPhone.
Don't try to turn my argument against me. It won't work. Apple, like many developers is sitting on features that are already finished and waiting for release. While, so far, no one phone has caught up the public's imagination as the iPhone's have, collectively, their sales are significant. It's useless to contend those sales won't continue to rise. every sale for one company means one less sale for another. It's impossible to insist those sales aren't coming from Apple, even if Apple's sales rise nicely.
Apple doesn't produce products in a vacuum. We've been laughing at Palm's Rubinstein for stating that he doesn't pay attention to Apple. It would be just as funny to think that Apple doesn't pay attention to Palm and others. Of course they do. But, by thinking that iPhone sales are impregnable, they will eventually see that they are not.
So, if Apple has a feature finished that people are clamoring about, release it. Making a slightly smaller splash in late June isn't a big deal.
Quote:
If Apple was as arrogant or incompetent at releasing features as half of the people in these threads continually imply, then that means the last three iPhone releases were total flukes
You miss the point. Of course Apple is releasing good upgrades once a year. Few are denying that. The point I'm making is that not everything needs to await a major upgrade.
This does not entitle you to new hardware in development. Certainly, some major software and hardware developers have been privileged to some of Apples pre-releases, but trust me it is not done casually and not without virtually signing your life away, if at all.
Certainly, just signing up for an Apple SDK kit does not unilaterally get you a pre-release software at any discount.
Eh pre-release software??? All I said was that there's at least one example where Apple had provided [discounted] hardware early to developers. I didn't imply that it was an automatic entitlement related to any ADC membership. If there is a tablet, there's a fair chance that carefully selected 3rd parties have been given the change to try their software on it.
No, I don't think that is the reason why the device satisfies the majority of users. Indeed, I would venture that reason ain't got hardly nothing to do with "satsifaction of the majority".
And, your reasons would be?
Quote:
You seem to be missing the point entirely. This is not a binary world where flexibility and options are always "at the expense of the majority". To think that these limited choices are the ONLY choices is irrational.
Here's my point: It is not impossible to make a full-featured device which is easy to use. A great device could be made with advanced functionality which is transparent to disinterested users. To be truly great, basic functionality should be intuitive to novice and stupid users. (Some might argue that the current Mac meets this description).
There is no dichotomy between "easy to use" and "full functionality". I believe your premise is defective.
I think it's you who is missing that point.
There's a difference between enhanced functionality that is additional to the normal functionality, that can be turned on by those who know what it is, and need it. Or, only used when desired, like C/paste. Adding that didn't make anything more complex for people not using it.. Adding video doesn't make using the still camera more complex.
Saying that this is easy is wrong. Some major features requite a major rewrite.
But adding a feature such as multitasking does affect every single user. Unless, somehow, Apple could have that function turned off in such a way that only those who really want it could understand how to turn it on, if it didn't work that well, everyone would be negatively impacted.
So far, every review of every phone that does this has had comments about battery life, slowdowns, stuttering in music playback or video etc. Not all phones exhibiting all of the problems, but all phones showing some. But managing this stuff isn't as easy as you say.
Apple's customers are more critical than are customers of other products. The smallest imperfection is howled about here, when on other products, the problems are often much worse.
Why is that? It's because Apple's customers expect the products to be perfect. As that's not possible, they complain at every small thing.
Honestly, few people expect Android phones to be perfect, and they aren't. But problems with those phones wouldn't pass muster from an Apple product. So Google gets away with a lot of crap in Android that Apple could never get away with. The same thing is true for other companies products.
Yeah, but none of the better phones work on ATT, and I'm locked into them for another 1.5 years. If I had the choices then that I have now, I'd check out TMob to see if their reception is good in the Boston area.
If resale value isn't important to you, then why should the termination fee be important? That makes no sense. In reading your posts, you seem to be really unhappy. If so, take the loss, and cut out. Sell your phone, and go where you'll be happy. Waiting another year and a half, when the past six months seem to have been such a drag is nuts. If you really think that an Android phone, with all of their problems would be better, then just do it already.
By the time you'll be ready to jump, Apple will have leapfrogged over them again, and then your excuse will have disappeared. So, do it now before that happens later this year, and again next year.
[*]Folder for apps so I don't have to use so many pages (less likely)[*]Smart Folders for apps that can categorize many apps in multiple places, like Recently Added apps
I'd like to see location-based home screens. I don't want the three pages of games to be visible when I'm at work, I don't need the tube map app unless I'm in London, and I'd the National Rail app to be most accessible when I'm on a train or near the station. Naturally all apps should be available through Spotlight regardless of location.
At the very least home screens should either be up, down, left, right and diagonals rather than linear, or perhaps being able to tap one of the home screen dots to jump to a distant right home screen for example would help too.
Saying that this is easy is wrong. Some major features requite a major rewrite.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything was easy.
I think that Apple is capable of what I DID suggest. You may think it is beyond their capabilities, but I disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
But adding a feature such as multitasking does affect every single user. Unless, somehow, Apple could have that function turned off in such a way that only those who really want it could understand how to turn it on, if it didn't work that well, everyone would be negatively impacted.
Again, I think it could be accomplished by Apple. You may think that they would implement it in a manner where "everyone would be negatively impacted", but I disagree. Indeed, some kid in his bedroom has already made it available in an unobtrusive package that nobody other than those who really want it need download.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
So far, every review of every phone that does this has had comments about battery life, slowdowns, stuttering in music playback or video etc. Not all phones exhibiting all of the problems, but all phones showing some. But managing this stuff isn't as easy as you say.
Again, I never said it was easy. Why do folks here constantly argue against points that I never made? It seems like they regurgitate half-baked points, attribute them to me, and then cut them down.
If resale value isn't important to you, then why should the termination fee be important? That makes no sense.
The resale value is unimportant because I keep phones for the life of the contract. The termination fee is important because it is a barrier to switching prior to the end of the contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
In reading your posts, you seem to be really unhappy. If so, take the loss, and cut out. Sell your phone, and go where you'll be happy. Waiting another year and a half, when the past six months seem to have been such a drag is nuts. If you really think that an Android phone, with all of their problems would be better, then just do it already.
I may do just that if ATT introduces some great Android phones. If not, and if the iPhone is the best device at expiration, I'll get another iPhone.
And in the meantime, I'll continue to identify good and bad aspects of various platforms, even within the range of the hear-no-evil fanbois.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything was easy.
I think that Apple is capable of what I DID suggest. You may think it is beyond their capabilities, but I disagree.
It's certainly not beyond, but it means it takes more time.
Quote:
Again, I think it could be accomplished by Apple. You may think that they would implement it in a manner where "everyone would be negatively impacted", but I disagree. Indeed, some kid in his bedroom has already made it available in an unobtrusive package that nobody other than those who really want it need download.
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I said just the opposite. I said that they WON'T release it until they believe they got it right, just like C/paste, and other late features.
Quote:
Again, I never said it was easy. Why do folks here constantly argue against points that I never made? It seems like they regurgitate half-baked points, attribute them to me, and then cut them down.
It's because when you complain about a "missing" feature, you do it in a way that presupposes that Apple can "just do it".
What we're trying to explain is that things don't "just happen" because some people want it. Some things are hard to do properly. You can look at a lot of these features on other phones and see that a lot of it doesn't work well, even though the feature is there.
Since other manufacturers are coming out with models that are unrelated to their other models, if they get it wrong in some, they can change it in others. All those phones may be offered for sale at the same time. It's confusing. That's why we see the reviews often referring to other phones in a line-up, where the reviewer is wondering why they all do the same thing differently.
Apple doesn't do that. They want to get it right the first time, so that all the phones will have the same methodology, and so that future phones will too. That makes it easier for developers, who don't have to worry about how something will work, and users, who will know how it works all of the time.
The resale value is unimportant because I keep phones for the life of the contract. The termination fee is important because it is a barrier to switching prior to the end of the contract.
So sell the phone and recover the termination fee, which should be prorated anyway. You may come out ahead.
Quote:
I may do just that if ATT introduces some great Android phones. If not, and if the iPhone is the best device at expiration, I'll get another iPhone.
And in the meantime, I'll continue to identify good and bad aspects of various platforms, even within the range of the hear-no-evil fanbois.
It's no a matter of fanbois, it's a matter of unfair criticism that isn't even entirely correct.
Comments
So you found a year old mockup.
Time makes it less effective? Maybe your wife should dump you because she had you last year. You're old news man.
Can't wait for iChat video!
That isn?t how life works. If you want complete control then format and install Linux on it, but what ever you do stop bitching that Apple makes a complete solution for the average user who just wants a smartphone that works as advertised.
I'm not aware that installing an alternative OS is a possibility. I think a better strategy is to wait for the ATT Android phones and then check them out to see if one may be a better choice for me. In the meantime, the iPhone, warts and all, is clearly my best choice.
And if you don't like to hear me, you have a complete solution available to you. I'll continue to reade your posts, however. You occasionally have an interesting perspective.
Then you should be able to sell your iPhone and get something else pretty easily. Resale for iPhones, as others have pointed out, is really good.
Yeah, but none of the better phones work on ATT, and I'm locked into them for another 1.5 years. If I had the choices then that I have now, I'd check out TMob to see if their reception is good in the Boston area.
Yeah. And you're so interested in establishing the negatives of Apple's customers that it precludes you from noticing when someone is being a bit tongue in cheek.
Sorry for being obtuse. I didn't realize. Excuse me for mistaking your comments for those of the rabid fanbois who are currently piling on and moving the goalposts.
See, I never understand these kinds of arguments.
Was Apple "aloof" when they released the original iPhone?
Yes, they were. jobs has stated several times over the years that Apple doesn't compete with others, just with themselves.
That's certainly aloof.
Perhaps, perhaps they aren't fully baked yet. That's my point.
i know your point. I also know software development.
Your absolutely right it's up to Apple how they releases new features. My point is, they will do it when it makes sense in the context of the overall experience. Apple rarely is reactionary to their competitors - indeed, the majority of the time it's the competitors that are reacting to Apple - and for good reason. Many of the killer "features" that have been cited as compelling on Android and the Pre in actually are just incremental checklist features that matter mainly to geeks. The evidence is in the sales (or lack of) of these devices compared to the iPhone.
Don't try to turn my argument against me. It won't work. Apple, like many developers is sitting on features that are already finished and waiting for release. While, so far, no one phone has caught up the public's imagination as the iPhone's have, collectively, their sales are significant. It's useless to contend those sales won't continue to rise. every sale for one company means one less sale for another. It's impossible to insist those sales aren't coming from Apple, even if Apple's sales rise nicely.
Apple doesn't produce products in a vacuum. We've been laughing at Palm's Rubinstein for stating that he doesn't pay attention to Apple. It would be just as funny to think that Apple doesn't pay attention to Palm and others. Of course they do. But, by thinking that iPhone sales are impregnable, they will eventually see that they are not.
So, if Apple has a feature finished that people are clamoring about, release it. Making a slightly smaller splash in late June isn't a big deal.
If Apple was as arrogant or incompetent at releasing features as half of the people in these threads continually imply, then that means the last three iPhone releases were total flukes
You miss the point. Of course Apple is releasing good upgrades once a year. Few are denying that. The point I'm making is that not everything needs to await a major upgrade.
Best you do some due diligence.
Apple has a number of ADC Membership levels.
For Example, the
This does not entitle you to new hardware in development. Certainly, some major software and hardware developers have been privileged to some of Apples pre-releases, but trust me it is not done casually and not without virtually signing your life away, if at all.
Certainly, just signing up for an Apple SDK kit does not unilaterally get you a pre-release software at any discount.
Eh pre-release software??? All I said was that there's at least one example where Apple had provided [discounted] hardware early to developers. I didn't imply that it was an automatic entitlement related to any ADC membership. If there is a tablet, there's a fair chance that carefully selected 3rd parties have been given the change to try their software on it.
No, I don't think that is the reason why the device satisfies the majority of users. Indeed, I would venture that reason ain't got hardly nothing to do with "satsifaction of the majority".
And, your reasons would be?
You seem to be missing the point entirely. This is not a binary world where flexibility and options are always "at the expense of the majority". To think that these limited choices are the ONLY choices is irrational.
Here's my point: It is not impossible to make a full-featured device which is easy to use. A great device could be made with advanced functionality which is transparent to disinterested users. To be truly great, basic functionality should be intuitive to novice and stupid users. (Some might argue that the current Mac meets this description).
There is no dichotomy between "easy to use" and "full functionality". I believe your premise is defective.
I think it's you who is missing that point.
There's a difference between enhanced functionality that is additional to the normal functionality, that can be turned on by those who know what it is, and need it. Or, only used when desired, like C/paste. Adding that didn't make anything more complex for people not using it.. Adding video doesn't make using the still camera more complex.
Saying that this is easy is wrong. Some major features requite a major rewrite.
But adding a feature such as multitasking does affect every single user. Unless, somehow, Apple could have that function turned off in such a way that only those who really want it could understand how to turn it on, if it didn't work that well, everyone would be negatively impacted.
So far, every review of every phone that does this has had comments about battery life, slowdowns, stuttering in music playback or video etc. Not all phones exhibiting all of the problems, but all phones showing some. But managing this stuff isn't as easy as you say.
Apple's customers are more critical than are customers of other products. The smallest imperfection is howled about here, when on other products, the problems are often much worse.
Why is that? It's because Apple's customers expect the products to be perfect. As that's not possible, they complain at every small thing.
Honestly, few people expect Android phones to be perfect, and they aren't. But problems with those phones wouldn't pass muster from an Apple product. So Google gets away with a lot of crap in Android that Apple could never get away with. The same thing is true for other companies products.
Yeah, but none of the better phones work on ATT, and I'm locked into them for another 1.5 years. If I had the choices then that I have now, I'd check out TMob to see if their reception is good in the Boston area.
If resale value isn't important to you, then why should the termination fee be important? That makes no sense. In reading your posts, you seem to be really unhappy. If so, take the loss, and cut out. Sell your phone, and go where you'll be happy. Waiting another year and a half, when the past six months seem to have been such a drag is nuts. If you really think that an Android phone, with all of their problems would be better, then just do it already.
By the time you'll be ready to jump, Apple will have leapfrogged over them again, and then your excuse will have disappeared. So, do it now before that happens later this year, and again next year.
[*]Folder for apps so I don't have to use so many pages (less likely)[*]Smart Folders for apps that can categorize many apps in multiple places, like Recently Added apps
I'd like to see location-based home screens. I don't want the three pages of games to be visible when I'm at work, I don't need the tube map app unless I'm in London, and I'd the National Rail app to be most accessible when I'm on a train or near the station. Naturally all apps should be available through Spotlight regardless of location.
At the very least home screens should either be up, down, left, right and diagonals rather than linear, or perhaps being able to tap one of the home screen dots to jump to a distant right home screen for example would help too.
I think it's you who is missing that point.
Saying that this is easy is wrong. Some major features requite a major rewrite.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything was easy.
I think that Apple is capable of what I DID suggest. You may think it is beyond their capabilities, but I disagree.
But adding a feature such as multitasking does affect every single user. Unless, somehow, Apple could have that function turned off in such a way that only those who really want it could understand how to turn it on, if it didn't work that well, everyone would be negatively impacted.
Again, I think it could be accomplished by Apple. You may think that they would implement it in a manner where "everyone would be negatively impacted", but I disagree. Indeed, some kid in his bedroom has already made it available in an unobtrusive package that nobody other than those who really want it need download.
So far, every review of every phone that does this has had comments about battery life, slowdowns, stuttering in music playback or video etc. Not all phones exhibiting all of the problems, but all phones showing some. But managing this stuff isn't as easy as you say.
Again, I never said it was easy. Why do folks here constantly argue against points that I never made? It seems like they regurgitate half-baked points, attribute them to me, and then cut them down.
If resale value isn't important to you, then why should the termination fee be important? That makes no sense.
The resale value is unimportant because I keep phones for the life of the contract. The termination fee is important because it is a barrier to switching prior to the end of the contract.
In reading your posts, you seem to be really unhappy. If so, take the loss, and cut out. Sell your phone, and go where you'll be happy. Waiting another year and a half, when the past six months seem to have been such a drag is nuts. If you really think that an Android phone, with all of their problems would be better, then just do it already.
I may do just that if ATT introduces some great Android phones. If not, and if the iPhone is the best device at expiration, I'll get another iPhone.
And in the meantime, I'll continue to identify good and bad aspects of various platforms, even within the range of the hear-no-evil fanbois.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything was easy.
I think that Apple is capable of what I DID suggest. You may think it is beyond their capabilities, but I disagree.
It's certainly not beyond, but it means it takes more time.
Again, I think it could be accomplished by Apple. You may think that they would implement it in a manner where "everyone would be negatively impacted", but I disagree. Indeed, some kid in his bedroom has already made it available in an unobtrusive package that nobody other than those who really want it need download.
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I said just the opposite. I said that they WON'T release it until they believe they got it right, just like C/paste, and other late features.
Again, I never said it was easy. Why do folks here constantly argue against points that I never made? It seems like they regurgitate half-baked points, attribute them to me, and then cut them down.
It's because when you complain about a "missing" feature, you do it in a way that presupposes that Apple can "just do it".
What we're trying to explain is that things don't "just happen" because some people want it. Some things are hard to do properly. You can look at a lot of these features on other phones and see that a lot of it doesn't work well, even though the feature is there.
Since other manufacturers are coming out with models that are unrelated to their other models, if they get it wrong in some, they can change it in others. All those phones may be offered for sale at the same time. It's confusing. That's why we see the reviews often referring to other phones in a line-up, where the reviewer is wondering why they all do the same thing differently.
Apple doesn't do that. They want to get it right the first time, so that all the phones will have the same methodology, and so that future phones will too. That makes it easier for developers, who don't have to worry about how something will work, and users, who will know how it works all of the time.
That's worth waiting for.
The resale value is unimportant because I keep phones for the life of the contract. The termination fee is important because it is a barrier to switching prior to the end of the contract.
So sell the phone and recover the termination fee, which should be prorated anyway. You may come out ahead.
I may do just that if ATT introduces some great Android phones. If not, and if the iPhone is the best device at expiration, I'll get another iPhone.
And in the meantime, I'll continue to identify good and bad aspects of various platforms, even within the range of the hear-no-evil fanbois.
It's no a matter of fanbois, it's a matter of unfair criticism that isn't even entirely correct.