Apple's iPad deal gives Hachette pricing leverage against Amazon

2456

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    have a large collection of DVD's and Blu Rays (around 400 of them) and a large collection of music on CD which I have imported into iTunes, I pay for my stuff and would happily go digital, but I refuse on principal to be shafted by these pricks, everyone else will make there own choice but until they stop ripping us off I will stick with traditional media.



    Hmm. I don't think the margins in publishing are as fat as for the music industry. In fact, I often hear that they are pretty thin. So I understand your feelings, yet I don't really think they are aiming to "rip us off". They are actually taking a smaller amount on ebook sales with this move. They're trying to look long term and make sure that it starts off right.



    Ebooks are in a different position than music was in when prices were set at a dollar. The publishers were competing with pirated music then. Ebooks don't have that and they want to keep the value of their traditional media intact. In spite of what Amazon says, physical books still make up the overwhelming bulk of sales right now. They can always lower prices when books have been out a while. And they now have the power to respond directly to the market on a book by book case. So vote with your dollars.
  • Reply 22 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    But you're leaving out one other cost for yourself, having to buy a special reader device when none was required before.



    Speaking of which, I haven't heard of reader software for the home computer. At least there, you couldn take advantage of an already-made purchase.



    Well sure, you have a point. Except that I look at the situation slightly differently. I don't say that I "HAVE to buy an iPad", I say that I "GET to buy an iPad"! The damn thing looks like a lot of fun to me and reading is only of its supported activities I'm looking forward to.
  • Reply 23 of 116
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    But you're leaving out one other cost for yourself, having to buy a special reader device when none was required before.



    Sure, but then you are leaving out other benefits like being able to carry a few weeks worth of reading on vacation for a fraction of the weight and space.

    Addtionally, at least with the iPad--not the Kindle so far, there is the added benefit of internet browser, picture viewer, app device, music holder...



    Certainly, there are dozens of angles with which to look at the tradeoffs. To each his own...
  • Reply 24 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    Is it my imagination, or don't most new, hardcover books cost much more than $12-$15? I just pulled two hardcover books off my shelf and they said $27.99 and $24.99. Even if I bought them at a discount, they would still have been much more than $15...



    Has their been any talk of pricing for paperback titles and old catalogue books?



    Yeah, the publisher's suggested price (which is the price that is used to determine the price to wholesalers which is generally around half that) is not what most people are comparing it to. They are comparing it to the discounted price which is up the the individual retailers, and some may decide to discount it below cost as a loss leader.



    They have said that they want a range of prices with a low end of maybe $5.99. Yet most all the articles are focused on the "new hardcover" price.
  • Reply 25 of 116
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    No evidence which way? I suppose there isn't any evidence either way.

    However, given the track record, I expect that non-US markets will be waiting a bit.



    Quite so; nothing is known for sure. CEOs are just polling their employees, who own iPhones, on how iPad's gonna sell. Apple is now visibly busy with building NA market. They haven't paid any attention to abroad yet.

    In France in particular it may turn out to be difficult. Intellectual and cultural legacy protection legislation is draconic. Google was not allowed to scan books from french libraries for their book service; no movies available in french iTunes store...
  • Reply 26 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    I feel very strongly that when I purchase downloadable content (be it video, music or in this case books) it should be cheaper than the physical medium.



    I do not wish to devalue the content of books or the creativity of music artists as their public statements claim.



    The simple fact is that with a physical medium they have to manufacture it, store it, ship it, stock it and sell it through a store who obviously put a mark up on top of the price, based on this why should I pay the same and even occasionally pay more (considering how quickly DVD's etc come down in price) for a downloadable version?!?!?!



    I have a large collection of DVD's and Blu Rays (around 400 of them) and a large collection of music on CD which I have imported into iTunes, I pay for my stuff and would happily go digital, but I refuse on principal to be shafted by these pricks, everyone else will make there own choice but until they stop ripping us off I will stick with traditional media.



    The other annoying thing is prices are historically set by supply and demand. With digital versions, there is no limit on supply, so prices are based solely on demand. The market will self-correct. Let them gouge us now (I'm not buying), and learn later.
  • Reply 27 of 116
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    But you're leaving out one other cost for yourself, having to buy a special reader device when none was required before.



    That doesn't seem to be a long term issue if there is convenience and added usability associated with the product. There are many personal and professional examples, going at least back to accounting software in the 80s.



    Quote:

    Speaking of which, I haven't heard of reader software for the home computer. At least there, you couldn take advantage of an already-made purchase.



    Kindle for Windows is available. Kindle for Mac is coming
  • Reply 28 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    In past discussions, there were multiple links that gave the cost breakdown for publishing a book. The printing & paper is only 10% of the cost. Distribution is 10%. Typical retailer portion is 40%.



    I wish it were right. Only 10% for printing and paper???

    first of all, it always depends on how many copies they print from that book.

    I just know magazine printing where this cost of printing and paper, especially the paper is the biggest part of all costs.
  • Reply 29 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    But you're leaving out one other cost for yourself, having to buy a special reader device when none was required before.



    Speaking of which, I haven't heard of reader software for the home computer. At least there, you couldn take advantage of an already-made purchase.



    All the major players have software available for your computer. Kindle is available for PC Stanza is available for PC and Mac, as is B&N's eReader. adobe has Digital Editions... there are numerous options.
  • Reply 30 of 116
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    Sure, but then you are leaving out other benefits like being able to carry a few weeks worth of reading on vacation for a fraction of the weight and space.

    Addtionally, at least with the iPad--not the Kindle so far, there is the added benefit of internet browser, picture viewer, app device, music holder...



    Certainly, there are dozens of angles with which to look at the tradeoffs. To each his own...



    if i wanted a vacation book i would buy something in one of the airport stores while waiting for my flight. one or two paperbacks is enough. no need to take 20 books with you.



    unless you go on vacation in the US, a lot of the features of the ipad are useless because they will cost you a lot of money in data fees. and most people already have ipods or iphones for music
  • Reply 31 of 116
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    Sure, but then you are leaving out other benefits like being able to carry a few weeks worth of reading on vacation for a fraction of the weight and space.

    Addtionally, at least with the iPad--not the Kindle so far, there is the added benefit of internet browser, picture viewer, app device, music holder...



    Certainly, there are dozens of angles with which to look at the tradeoffs. To each his own...



    That is true, but most advantages were already mentioned. But if you take in the advantages and ignore the disadvantages, then you're likely really just selling yourself on the concept because you want one, and not looking at the bigger picture.



    As it is, I want to see the catalog before I consider it for that purpose. I also want to see how the magazines are executed. A lot of times, a magazine subscription sells for about the cost of postage, the actual content is paid for through ads. If they split the difference, then I might be interested in subscriptions. Another thing is sometimes I'd like to print a page, particularly if it's a scale drawing. But the scale model publishers don't seem to have signed up yet. But their articles tend to have a more timeless aspect to it, techniques and project information might be good for a decade or more, depending.
  • Reply 31 of 116
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    But you're leaving out one other cost for yourself, having to buy a special reader device when none was required before.



    Speaking of which, I haven't heard of reader software for the home computer. At least there, you couldn take advantage of an already-made purchase.





    i used to have fictionwise on my laptop which synced with my blackberry. and the NY Public Library has a lot of digital books you can borrow to read on mobile devices. last i heard iphone and ipods weren't supported
  • Reply 33 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    I feel very strongly that when I purchase downloadable content (be it video, music or in this case books) it should be cheaper than the physical medium.



    I do not wish to devalue the content of books or the creativity of music artists as their public statements claim.



    The simple fact is that with a physical medium they have to manufacture it, store it, ship it, stock it and sell it through a store who obviously put a mark up on top of the price, based on this why should I pay the same and even occasionally pay more (considering how quickly DVD's etc come down in price) for a downloadable version?!?!?!



    I agree with all those points!



    I would like to add a few of my own:



    1) Electronic (downloaded) media is cheaper for the consumer so store, access, manipulate in many of same ways it cheaper for the publisher-- we don't to spend money on expensive transportation, physical space, storage racks...



    2) Convenience/instant gratification/unlimited stock-- with digital downloads we can instantly take possesion of (and use) our purchases, at our whim, anywhere, anytime 24/7. Compare this to the cost and time: of jumping into the the car, driving to the store, searching for the book/DVD, discovering that they are out of stock... or waiting days to have your purchase delivered. Electronic purchases are like: Calling in a pizza; hanging up the phone as the doorbell rings; opening the door to the delivery man; getting exactly what you ordered; no extra charge for delivery; no tip for the delivery person. "Convenience" has cost/value that should be considered as part of the equation.



    3) For those interested in conserving resources or protecting the planet-- purchasing elctronic media may be a way we can make a small, personal, contribution to these causes.



    4) Electronic media is an option that we can use or ignore-- our choice! For whatever reasons! If we so choose, we can invest the time and expense to purchase the physical alternative (often at greater expense). It is our choice.



    5) Reportedly, Amazon was setting Eletronic book prices artifically low and taking a loss on every sale. This is unsustainable! Either Amazon would have to raise their prices (sometime) or they would be so successful that they would go bankrupt.



    6) Reportedly, Amazon took a 70% cut (publishers/authors got 30%) of an unsustainable business model. This, too, had to change or publishers and authors would find other, more profitable, endeavors. Death of the "publication" with no practical replacement would be a great loss to us all-- creators and consumers, alike.



    7) Comparing Amazon book pricing to iTunes (original) song pricing (99 cents) is a different issue. Music was being ripped off with no compensation to the "eviil record companies" (or the artists). Apple created a marketplasce where people could purchase legitimate media at an acceptable price! Apple did not use artifically low prices or loss-leaders. Apple broke even (or slight profit) and made money on computers and iPods. This was, and is, a sustainable business model.





    Finally, when you consider the entire electronic/physical media ecosystem, everyone benifits from options at reasonable and fair(er) prices. I, for one, appreciate the opportunity to evaluate the options and choose for myself.



    *
  • Reply 34 of 116
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,616member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macadamias View Post


    Yeah, the publisher's suggested price (which is the price that is used to determine the price to wholesalers which is generally around half that) is not what most people are comparing it to. They are comparing it to the discounted price which is up the the individual retailers, and some may decide to discount it below cost as a loss leader.



    They have said that they want a range of prices with a low end of maybe $5.99. Yet most all the articles are focused on the "new hardcover" price.



    Exactly. I have never read anywhere that the digital equivalent of a title will cost the same a physical copy, on the contrary. In the end prices for products need to cover the expenses. Are book publishers ripping us off? I have never heard this until now. If the iTunes deal allows publishing houses to nurture new talent and publish a greater variety of books the price increase is probably a good thing.



    I'm not sure how this compares to the music trade - they are very different.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm disappointed that Apple didn't offer anything new to the electronic print. I hope this is just a start, but I was hoping for textbooks, magazines and comic books to be demoed to really show how a colour LCD is a better than E Ink



    I suspect this is a work in progress and by launch there will have been many announcements. My guess is that there is a bit of scramble going on behind the scenes for content providers to be represented. I get the sense that now that the hype has died down the potential of the iPad is becoming more apparent. I think content providers may be realizing the marketing value of a 'product on the iPad' announcement. I'm guessing, of course.
  • Reply 35 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Seems like Apple is forcing the prices up on the consumer to the benefit of publishers and itself. There is no reason people should pay the same or more for electronic content.



    I agree totally. I've been considering buying an ebook reader recently. The iPad was in the running until now. Kindle here I come. Screw you Mr. Jobs.
  • Reply 36 of 116
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm disappointed that Apple didn't offer anything new to the electronic print. I hope this is just a start, but I was hoping for textbooks, magazines and comic books to be demoed to really show how a colour LCD is a better than E Ink.



    I agree. I thought the 'Pad would be innovative and offer something better than what is currently available.
  • Reply 37 of 116
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,616member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I agree with all those points!



    I would like to add a few of my own:



    1) Electronic (downloaded) media is cheaper for the consumer so store, access, manipulate in many of same ways it cheaper for the publisher-- we don't to spend money on expensive transportation, physical space, storage racks...



    2) Convenience/instant gratification/unlimited stock-- with digital downloads we can instantly take possesion of (and use) our purchases, at our whim, anywhere, anytime 24/7. Compare this to the cost and time: of jumping into the the car, driving to the store, searching for the book/DVD, discovering that they are out of stock... or waiting days to have your purchase delivered. Electronic purchases are like: Calling in a pizza; hanging up the phone as the doorbell rings; opening the door to the delivery man; getting exactly what you ordered; no extra charge for delivery; no tip for the delivery person. "Convenience" has cost/value that should be considered as part of the equation.



    3) For those interested in conserving resources or protecting the planet-- purchasing elctronic media may be a way we can make a small, personal, contribution to these causes.



    4) Electronic media is an option that we can use or ignore-- our choice! For whatever reasons! If we so choose, we can invest the time and expense to purchase the physical alternative (often at greater expense). It is our choice.



    5) Reportedly, Amazon was setting Eletronic book prices artifically low and taking a loss on every sale. This is unsustainable! Either Amazon would have to raise their prices (sometime) or they would be so successful that they would go bankrupt.



    6) Reportedly, Amazon took a 70% cut (publishers/authors got 30%) of an unsustainable business model. This, too, had to change or publishers and authors would find other, more profitable, endeavors. Death of the "publication" with no practical replacement would be a great loss to us all-- creators and consumers, alike.



    7) Comparing Amazon book pricing to iTunes (original) song pricing (99 cents) is a different issue. Music was being ripped off with no compensation to the "eviil record companies" (or the artists). Apple created a marketplasce where people could purchase legitimate media at an acceptable price! Apple did not use artifically low prices or loss-leaders. Apple broke even (or slight profit) and made money on computers and iPods. This was, and is, a sustainable business model.





    Finally, when you consider the entire electronic/physical media ecosystem, everyone benifits from options at reasonable and fair(er) prices. I, for one, appreciate the opportunity to evaluate the options and choose for myself.

    *



    Quite. I am repeating myself but can anyone point to evidence of price parity between digital downloads and physical books?
  • Reply 38 of 116
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    In past discussions, there were multiple links that gave the cost breakdown for publishing a book. The printing & paper is only 10% of the cost. Distribution is 10%. Typical retailer portion is 40%. Apple takes 30% on most media they sell (iTunes store), and that doesn't earn them more than a sliver of net profit. There are still costs with maintaining the electronic store. The best you can hope for here with electronic distribution is a 30% reduction in cost.



    I see what you're saying but there's something I think you are leaving out of the digital-migration equation.



    I'n the world of hardcopy there is a finite amount of space for stocking books and having them available for distribution. At any given time there must be a certain percentage of titles that are simply not available any longer. Getting a book from the 'no longer in print' category to active distribution is no small feat I presume, since a new spark of interest must be a present driving the new found demand for an older title. (Authors death perhaps?)



    With digital distribution no book ever gets moved to 'out of print' and instead can remain an active title forever. Sure from the publishers perspective I'm sure active promotion of any given book will decrease over time (just as it does now) but if someone wants said book even 20 years after it was published it could still be purchased.



    'Super-Sales' - Book stores often have certain books 'heavily discounted' over the published price... Often this is due to the book not selling as well as was forecasted and since the books have already been printed and shipped its better to blow them out at fire sale prices just so they get off the retailers shelves since nobody wants crates of books being returned to the publisher. With digital this problem all but disappears. Which is good and bad, good because you have ZERO additional risk when offering a (digital) book for sale or running a 2nd print run (no such thing in digital) on the other hand bargain shoppers who often get lured into buying multiple books due to first being attracted by a 'fire sale' priced title will no longer be part of the customer base unless publishers periodically offer 'deals of the week' on various titles.
  • Reply 39 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    if i wanted a vacation book i would buy something in one of the airport stores while waiting for my flight. one or two paperbacks is enough. no need to take 20 books with you.



    unless you go on vacation in the US, a lot of the features of the ipad are useless because they will cost you a lot of money in data fees. and most people already have ipods or iphones for music



    It's been a while since I traveled, but AIR, Airport stores charged a premium for the convenience of last-minute purchases and had a very limited selection.



    With a reader like a Kindle or iPad, I have [relatively] unlimited selection at a [relatively] fair market price.



    With 2-3 business trips per month, I could easily recover the cost of the reader in a few months... and have what I want when I want it!



    *
  • Reply 40 of 116
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Speaking of which, I haven't heard of reader software for the home computer. At least there, you couldn take advantage of an already-made purchase.



    Download.com lists 198 hits for "ebook reader" in windows, and 16 for Mac.



    Facts are easy to discover in today's world. No need to rely upon what you remember hearing.
Sign In or Register to comment.