Apple's iPad deal gives Hachette pricing leverage against Amazon

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  • Reply 81 of 116
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrJedi View Post


    Whatever happened to the idea of the public library? I'd be a little less hard on the iPad if Apple introduced some sort of book borrowing paradigm. Of course, there's no profit in that, and if something isn't profitable, then it's not worth doing, eh? It's a sad, sad, commercial world we live in.



    Libraries are not "free". They exist because of volunteers, donations and/or government funding which, btw, comes out of your pocket and mine, whether we use them or not. Get rid of the idea that something is free just because you don't have to reach into your pocket and pay. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Would you work for nothing? I think not.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrJedi View Post


    I thought Apple was a hardware company where the software pushed sales of the hardware that people bought to create stuff. Now it's a media distribution company where the hardware is designed and constrained to push sales of media for consumption.



    The primary focus has always been, and always will be, imho, is to make great devices, but what good would they be if there was no way to get the content out to the people?
  • Reply 82 of 116
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    You forget that electronic books are less valuable. I can't resell them. And more importantly I can't give them to someone else. Which I do with many of my books.



    Value is in the eye of the owner (a terrible paraphrase, but there you have it). For me, the idea of a device containing 1000s of books is worth something. I imagine everyone will work out for themselves what's valuable and what's not.
  • Reply 83 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Seems like Apple is forcing the prices up on the consumer to the benefit of publishers and itself. There is no reason people should pay the same or more for electronic content.



    TBell, I think that this time it's not Apple who is forcing the prices up... it's the publishers that are taking the advantage and because they forced Apple, they now want to force Amazon.

  • Reply 84 of 116
    woodewoode Posts: 67member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Seems like Apple is forcing the prices up on the consumer to the benefit of publishers and itself. There is no reason people should pay the same or more for electronic content.



    Before you start blaming Apple, notice that it is the publishers making changes to their pricing models. Apple allowed them a more appealing model, and they're taking that to Amazon and asking for the same. Apple didn't "force" anybody to change prices.
  • Reply 85 of 116
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aquarius6502 View Post


    TBell, I think that this time it's not Apple who is forcing the prices up... it's the publishers that are taking the advantage and because they forced Apple, they now want to force Amazon.





    I'm not so sure an eyerolling conclusion can be made with the available information. Of course the publishers want more money but it wouldn't hurt Apple's position to force Amazon to act defensively. Amazon has already changed their fee from 50/50 to 30/70 to match then non-existant iPad. Making them lose favour with the publishers could be a double-edged sword for Apple.
  • Reply 86 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    That's very cool. So do you use the mini essentially as a media server? How is it connected to the playback devices?



    Wait - I reread what was quoted - the mini is not authorized to play any media? So what do you do with it? Is it just for mass storage?



    The Media Server Mini is located anywhere there are 3 outlets (Mini and 2 external drives-- there is no KB, Mouse or display). Mine happens to be in a China cabinet in the dining room.



    The Media Server shows up as a shared device in everyone's iTunes:







    Everything communicates through 811n WiFi.



    DR - Mac Mini (media Server) 1,000 videos (DVDS, TV shows, Music Videos, Home Moveis, 3 kids soccer); 11,000 photos; 10,000 songs.



    DR - Airport Express to Bose HI-Fi (Speakers)



    LR - Airport Express to B&O HiFi (Speakers)



    Office - Main iMac 27, Cinema Display, 20TB of external HDD, spare iMac 20



    FR- Family iMac 20

    FR- Comcast Cable/ Modem Airport Extreme

    FR- AppleTV, iPhone Media dock, Sony HDTV, SDTV, Wii, GameCube, Mac Mini (EyeTV



    BR1- iMac 17, Tivo, TV



    BR2- iMac 20



    BR3- iMac (no WiFi)



    Roving/Backyard- Airport Express to Apple iPod Hi-Fi (speakers), MacBook 17.



    These devices are authorized to play purchased iTunes content. Any computer or the AppleTV can stream audio to selected or all Airport Express speakers and the AppleTV/HTDV speakers.





    In our location, Comcast Cable cannot support any more cable devices (TVs, DVRs, VHS/DVD Players because of signal degradation. We tend to use iMacs to play movies in the bedrooms over WiFi.



    *
  • Reply 87 of 116
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    You forget that electronic books are less valuable. I can't resell them. And more importantly I can't give them to someone else. Which I do with many of my books.



    That's true, which is part of why I'm not eager to leap just yet. I usually keep my books, but I can off them if I decide it's not worth it. I can usually make a private sale at 70% of list price.
  • Reply 88 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm not so sure an eyerolling conclusion can be made with the available information. Of course the publishers want more money but it wouldn't hurt Apple's position to force Amazon to act defensively. Amazon has already changed their fee from 50/50 to 30/70 to match then non-existant iPad. Making them lose favour with the publishers could be a double-edged sword for Apple.



    I agree. it is a double-edged sword to me.

    However, My guess is that Apple had no choice.



    IMHO, I think that to consumers and competition, a model where there is flexibility of prices is better. This way it is the consumer who decides the cost-value and gives force to competition.



    But, for ebooks, I would really like the option to rent. With novels, once I finish reading it, I have never went back to re-read it again. and with school/university textbooks is even more appealing to rent the book while in class...
  • Reply 89 of 116
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    From what I have read about the ePub format, I'm assuming that the logical path of digital book acquisition is to purchase it from iTunes and then sync it to your iPad. Has anyone heard anything about being able to obtain your ePub book from alternate sources?



    I found this document on Adobe's site



    http://blogs.adobe.com/digitaleditio...sign-epub.html



    In this short tutorial they explain how to use inDesign CS4 to create your own ePub document. Very interesting stuff. It appears that you can create your own document, however getting it into iTunes is not clear, but if and when you do, you should be able to sync it and read it on the iPad. As a publisher, it would be nice to be able to have clients download the ePub directly to iTunes but I'm not sure if that will be possible. If not, hopefully people can import it easily.



    For small publishers Apple will likely have a similar arrangement to the model used with current App developers, but at least with self publishing you won't be hindered by Apple's approval process.
  • Reply 90 of 116
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    From what I have read about the ePub format, I'm assuming that the logical path of digital book acquisition is to purchase it from iTunes and then sync it to your iPad. Has anyone heard anything about being able to obtain your ePub book from alternate sources?



    I found this document on Adobe's site



    http://blogs.adobe.com/digitaleditio...sign-epub.html



    In this short tutorial they explain how to use inDesign CS4 to create your own ePub document. Very interesting stuff. It appears that you can create your own document, however getting it into iTunes is not clear, but if and when you do, you should be able to sync it and read it on the iPad. As a publisher, it would be nice to be able to have clients download the ePub directly to iTunes but I'm not sure if that will be possible. If not, hopefully people can import it easily.



    For small publishers Apple will likely have a similar arrangement to the model used with current App developers, but at least with self publishing you won't be hindered by Apple's approval process.





    I'm going to suggest the drag and drop method of adding a non-apple epub book to the iPad. if you've been following the iPad, you have probably heard that apps will easily be able to share data with your computer. When you plug the iPad in, any apps that you have enabled sharing on will show up on your computer as mounted drives. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to drag and drop a non drm'd epub book in there.



    As far as I know, Apple has made no mention of an eBook reader application for macs and pc's, or that you epub books will be part of the iTunes library. So I wouldn't jump to any conclusions on that front until we know more.
  • Reply 91 of 116
    There is a good explanation of book price: http://ireaderreview.com/2009/05/03/...ook-publishing. Look at the publisher's share - 45%



    I'm expecting that soon we'll see a lot of small independent publishers. They will provide cheaper editing and pre-printing service, but they won't deal with phisical copies of books
  • Reply 92 of 116
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aquarius6502 View Post


    But, for ebooks, I would really like the option to rent. With novels, once I finish reading it, I have never went back to re-read it again. and with school/university textbooks is even more appealing to rent the book while in class...



    They already have exploding media for movie rentals and I hope Apple announces it for App Store trial periods, but I don't see it coming for books anytime soon.



    It would be nice if a reliable and secure transfer method could be made. Without one libraries will never be able to outgrow physical media.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    As far as I know, Apple has made no mention of an eBook reader application for macs and pc's, or that you epub books will be part of the iTunes library. So I wouldn't jump to any conclusions on that front until we know more.



    iTunes will have to be updated for the iPad and eBookstore. If they don't allow DRMed ePub it would be the first media format that didn't also play on Mac OS X or Windows via iTunes or Quicktime. I have to expect they will include a reader.
  • Reply 93 of 116
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post


    'm expecting that soon we'll see a lot of small independent publishers. They will provide cheaper editing and pre-printing service, but they won't deal with phisical copies of books





    This seems inevitable. We are hoping that we can leverage our publishing and web development skills to that effect. The epub format apparently is pretty easy to edit with existing tools since it is just a zipped xml file with a couple other config files and some CSS thrown in the mix.
  • Reply 94 of 116
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    iTunes will have to be updated for the iPad and eBookstore. If they don't allow DRMed ePub it would be the first media format that didn't also play on Mac OS X or Windows via iTunes or Quicktime. I have to expect they will include a reader.



    It doesn't have to be iTunes, but it could very well be. I think there just might be a parallel reader application and integrated store on the mac. It seems worthwhile to note that you wont be buying books on the itunes store on the iPad (at least the way it was presented), so I would think it is premature to think that iTunes will be in any way involved with the purchase or display of ebooks on the computer. Syncing would still happen through iTunes.



    I think we are too quick to assume everything will happen through iTunes, that's all. iTunes has been a catch-all for just about everything, but I don't think that will/can continue forever.



    Edit: On a rethink, the iTunes Store and App Store are separate on the iPhone and together on the mac, so they could follow in a similar manner with books. We see soon enough. I still think it is to earlier to assume anything about how the content will be delivered and viewed on a computer.
  • Reply 95 of 116
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    It doesn't have to be iTunes, but it could very well be. I think there just might be a parallel reader application and integrated store on the mac. It seems worthwhile to note that you wont be buying books on the itunes store on the iPad (at least the way it was presented), so I would think it is premature to think that iTunes will be in any way involved with the purchase or display of ebooks on the computer. Syncing would still happen through iTunes.



    I think we are too quick to assume everything will happen through iTunes, that's all. iTunes has been a catch-all for just about everything, but I don't think that will/can continue forever.



    It is just an assumption based on historical actions, not a declaration of the way things have to happen. I've never been a fan of the iTunes Store setup. Didn't buy any music from the store until I could do it from the iPhone, the iTunes version of the ITS is just too cluttered for my taste. I hope they separate the stores out but so far they've shown no interest in that.



    I think Apple would be remiss if they didn't offer the iBookstore and a reader via iTunes. I doubt they'd offer a separate app for reading as iTunes would still be used for backing up and organizing your books, but it sure would be nice. if they don't offer that functionality it will be on that Kindle offers and the only media you can get from Apple that doesn't play on a Mac. That doesn't seem like good plan to me, but they don't seem to thought that much through with the iPad, including calling the operating system iPhone OS.
  • Reply 96 of 116
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Mmmm.... I Like!



    As to item 4:



    -- The original buyer/loaner could receive a small (but reasonable) credit to his iTunes store account when the loanee copy is purchased. The loanee would then be encouraged to become a loaner to propagate the process.



    This is kind of a reverse Ponzi Scheme or even a "Pay It Forward" effort. Everybody wins, no downside risk, everybody gets a potential for more credits or lower prices!



    *



    Great minds.... I actually had what you wrote as an option but removed it since I felt it could muddy the waters too much... but yes I really like the 'minor credit' for loans converted into sales.
  • Reply 97 of 116
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It is just an assumption based on historical actions, not a declaration of the way things have to happen. I've never been a fan of the iTunes Store setup. Didn't buy any music from the store until I could do it from the iPhone, the iTunes version of the ITS is just too cluttered for my taste. I hope they separate the stores out but so far they've shown no interest in that.



    I think Apple would be remiss if they didn't offer the iBookstore and a reader via iTunes. I doubt they'd offer a separate app for reading as iTunes would still be used for backing up and organizing your books, but it sure would be nice. if they don't offer that functionality it will be on that Kindle offers and the only media you can get from Apple that doesn't play on a Mac. That doesn't seem like good plan to me, but they don't seem to thought that much through with the iPad, including calling the operating system iPhone OS.



    I really don't know if there is a major benefit that justifies splitting off app and book management into separate Mac apps, the back end is probably the same, I think you'd just be duplicating a lot of functionality on the front end.



    I would like them to overhaul the app, it just doesn't seem to even try to be efficient.
  • Reply 98 of 116
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I really don't know if there is a major benefit that justifies splitting off app and book management into separate Mac apps, the back end is probably the same, I think you'd just be duplicating a lot of functionality on the front end.



    I would like them to overhaul the app, it just doesn't seem to even try to be efficient.



    This thread has been rife with miscommunication all day. I mean separating the stores, not separating them into different apps. The only thing I suggested for splitting was an option for a separate reader app, the way you can use QuickTime for FairPlay media. I'd be fine with the alternative reader being QuickTime or Safari.



    I say this because I don't like having to go into iTunes for video. First, it takes too long to load and locate my files. Second, the video player is horrible compared to QuickTime. Their controls are too different.





    I don't think we'll see that much change with iTunes until they introduce iTunes X, rewritten in Cocoa and 64-bit. I think that is the mostly likely place to make dynamic changes to the layout. The iPod/iTunes special event in September might be the best time for this kind of reveal, but I'd think this much overhaul of a very popular app might require a developer testing before going live. Anyway, I sure hope so because iTunes can be buggy enough as it is with incremental updates.
  • Reply 99 of 116
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    This thread has been rife with miscommunication all day. I mean separating the stores, not separating them into different apps. The only thing I suggested for splitting was an option for a separate reader app, the way you can use QuickTime for FairPlay media. I'd be fine with the alternative reader being QuickTime or Safari.



    I say this because I don't like having to go into iTunes for video. First, it takes too long to load and locate my files. Second, the video player is horrible compared to QuickTime. Their controls are too different.



    Sorry, I understood some of what you meant, but I didn't write it clearly. But much of the same thing applies, what is really to be gained by separating the stores? What is your vision of how stores would be separated? Maybe I assumed that stores would be separated by providing a different app on the computer.



    The back end is likely the same, and the front end for browsing and purchasing can't be that much different, I wouldn't be surprised if the only difference between video, music and app sales is some changes in XML code. I can't think of any other retail model where a retailer expands its product offerings by with similar kind of rigid segmentation. There are also some negatives with separation, especially if it also segments the search too rigidly, because often times there is related media, say a search for a band can show you all the videos, music, books and podcasts about them.
  • Reply 100 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newbee View Post


    Libraries are not "free". They exist because of volunteers, donations and/or government funding which, btw, comes out of your pocket and mine, whether we use them or not. Get rid of the idea that something is free just because you don't have to reach into your pocket and pay. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Would you work for nothing? I think not.



    Aren't you being just a wee bit dogmatic? The concept of the "free public library" has been around for centuries. Why, many of them say that right over the door.
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