Do you mean on the iPad? I haven't actually seen one but the keyboard looks good to me from afar. (its bigger) I would like to see the ability to customize the home screen with 'widgets', however. (iPad spaces?) Maybe that could appear and disappear with a swipe.
Yeah, the iPad. I expect that a lot of the big OS changes were left off the iPad to make the iPhone OS 4.0 in March(?) a great event.
LOL. I think if they banned members for saying fanboy half the forum would have been banned by now.
Add to that "troll" a certain user's favorite expression.
Notice how they started this flame war because I said something untowards SJ and his iPad. They rode this discussion right off the rails- diversionary tactics. And notice who started it all - he who has 14,000 posts.
Most consumers are not impressed with it either. Although the little fanboys here will try to claim it is the best thing since swiss cheese....too dumb to realize it is nothing more than an iPod Touch.
Really?
Well every real world potential consumer I speak to is sat with credit card in hand counting down the days. I'll think i'll save your post to textedit and post it back in june or july...
Your comment and the parallel drawn is, frankly, ridiculous. It's nothing more than iPod touch. Well I guess an iPhone is nothing more than iPod touch that happens to make calls - yet they aren't the same product.
Can I view a web page at 1024/768 on my ipod touch. Can I read a book on a decent size screen on an iPod touch? Can I run iWork on an iPod touch?
Well every real world potential consumer I speak to is sat with credit card in hand counting down the days. I'll think i'll save your post to textedit and post it back in june or july...
It's hard to debunk his statement since he says "most consumers" and doesn't qualify as you do. The iPod's worldwide sales still don't equal more than 50% (ie: most) of the US' population.
I'm sure the iPad will do well. The fact there are posters vehemently trolling the forums trying to say how it will fail but using the exact same talking points from the 2007 iPhone announcement proves to me it will be a relative success.
PS: I love the ones that say it will fail because it doesn't have a desktop OS on it, followed by a comment about how tablets have failed in general so Apple can't possibly succeed. It's like the brain can't connect thoughts sentence to sentence. Fun times!
I agree that the AppleTV has been a success in the nascent and lackluster media extender market but things have changed since it's arrival and the AppleTV has not. This last year the popular PS3, 360 and TiVo have stepped up their game to offer a lot of the features the AppleTV came with. Popcorn Hour and other media extenders are becoming popular, for good reason.
Unless you specifically want iTS access the AppleTV now offers little benefit over these other appliances. They aren't as simple as the AppleTV but the AppleTV fails in other areas they excel in. Favour is tipping toward them more each day.
I expect Apple to release another AppleTV this year. They can't drop the living room and the current model is using some old tech. The iPad's HW and OS (not the UI) looks like a pretty good and inexpensive fit for the next AppleTV.
I'd like to see an SDK for apps and an option for direct file access but I am not holding my breath on either of these.
The problem is not one of hardware, it's one of content. I genuinely don't see how anything has changed in content licensing/broadcasting since the introduction of the apple tv.
As long as content providers lock down content and don't allow ripping of DVDs, the apple TV can't perform the one function that would make it great. No change in design or software can overcome that. What we all want is to be able to legally stream content from our computers to the apple tv in any format, free of copy restriction that gets in the way and requires third party hacking software, or hacking the apple tv itself. Let's have an optical drive that enables you to insert your blu-ray or DVD and automatically have all the content and menus copied to a massive harddrive, and put all our physical media away in the loft with our CD collections.
The content producers simply aren't ready to let this happen, and Apple can't overcome that - neither can anybody else. It may be 'old tech', but there's no point trying to move to the next stage without the content to support it.
Well now that you ask... I know many people who are "comfortable" with Windows beacause they have to be... but absolutely no one that really "likes it"... or loves it. Not one person.
On the other hand, those that have switched to Apple devices, either at my behest or simply on their own... are always telling me how they "love their iPhone", or their new MB or MBP.
For many people, Windows is the only choice (business, games, and cheap). Again, it doesn't make using it any more pleasant and gratifying.
And just because Windows is the market-share and cost leader in computing devices, does NOT make them the best UI or user experience.... and I wouldn't say they "won" anything really. They simply are the GM of computer software.
Yes, but that's more or less beside the point. Microsoft's OS market share is a product of a series of historical accidents, which are very unlikely to be duplicated or repeated. The point is, the merit of their approach has never been a real issue. Irrespective of how they got where they are today, Microsoft's approach has always been fully geek compliant. They have always been more into feature cram than implementation, both in Windows and in their software. This is a distinguishing characteristic of their approach. Their products are no less Bill Gates personified than Apple's are Steve Jobs personified.
I like the look and performance of the iPad, but I'm a little concerned about the form factor. Everyone I see using a netbook/small notebook is sitting at a bar or table, or on the floor - they are not in a easy chair or couch. I don't think it will be very convenient to type into this device while looking down at the screen. We will have to use a separate stand/keyboard, but that just means carrying two things around.
Ray
Well, I guess people will have to move to a comfy chair then. Think of it this way. The natural way that a human being works is at a desk, with the piece of paper flat on the desk and working on the paper while looking down on it. Shakespeare did it, sophocles did it, we all did it at high school. It is only the computer that has us looking up at a vertical surface while typing (on a flat surface, on the table)
Since Ape first drew in the dirt, man has worked on a horizontal surface - cave wall paintings are all well and good, but the ink ran and the guys got tired arms, so man invented paper and put it on his desk and assumed a comfortable, ergonomic posture.
We need to get away from the strange concepts that the early days of computing have thrust upon us, and start to think different.
Well every real world potential consumer I speak to is sat with credit card in hand counting down the days. I'll think i'll save your post to textedit and post it back in june or july...
It's a good product in its own right, but I don't think the interest is _that_ broad. Didn't this site show the results of a survey that said 15% of the respondents were definitely going to buy? Something like half just weren't interested or didn't think they were going to buy. It's a good start and it's plenty enough to make a good market out of, but apparently, not everyone is convinced yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm
The problem is not one of hardware, it's one of content. I genuinely don't see how anything has changed in content licensing/broadcasting since the introduction of the apple tv.
As long as content providers lock down content and don't allow ripping of DVDs, the apple TV can't perform the one function that would make it great. No change in design or software can overcome that. What we all want is to be able to legally stream content from our computers to the apple tv in any format, free of copy restriction that gets in the way and requires third party hacking software, or hacking the apple tv itself. Let's have an optical drive that enables you to insert your blu-ray or DVD and automatically have all the content and menus copied to a massive harddrive, and put all our physical media away in the loft with our CD collections.
The content producers simply aren't ready to let this happen, and Apple can't overcome that - neither can anybody else. It may be 'old tech', but there's no point trying to move to the next stage without the content to support it.
If we didn't have CD ripping, it's possible that we wouldn't have portable music file players right now. The labels fought internet distribution pretty hard, they weren't interested in advancing technology. We're still seeing that with videos, there are a lot of TV shows and movies that aren't legitimately available over the internet.
1) I don't understand this "it's just a big iPod Touch" meme. Watch the demo -- every application was significantly re-designed using an assortment of new multi-touch UI widgets. Most third party iPad applications are going to get the same treatment. They're two totally different environments at the application level. When you're dealing with a touchscreen interface there's not going to be a lot of variation in the hardware. It's just a touchscreen with a case around it. All the important differences are in software.
2) Just because the iPad exists doesn't mean you can't buy a net book if that's what you prefer. People seem to be very confused about this point. I personally prefer full sized laptops. I don't go around telling net book owners their net books are soooo crippled compared to my MacBook. It's their money -- they can buy whatever fits their needs.
3) Technology is reaching a much larger market these days than ever before. Geeks need to start accepting that not every single product is going to be designed for their specific extremist geek needs. That's just how it goes.
We have no clue if the average user is going to have any interest in the iPad. We should at least wait until its been available for a while.
Actually we do, with several companies who have allowed customers to pre-order (well, ask to be notified as soon as the device is available for priority sales) effectively closing the books for their 'pre-ordering'.
I'd also be very interested to know how many people have registered interest on the apple web site for notification when the iPad is available for pre-order.
Speak to the average user on the street - you'll find a good percentage are very interested. All that remains to be seen is whether this interest is converted to sales.
It's a good product in its own right, but I don't think the interest is _that_ broad. Didn't this site show the results of a survey that said 15% of the respondents were definitely going to buy? Something like half just weren't interested or didn't think they were going to buy. It's a good start and it's plenty enough to make a good market out of, but apparently, not everyone is convinced yet.
Well, 15% of respondents interested in definitely purchasing a product they've yet to see in the real world is a MASSIVE percentage. Even if 10% of consumers were interested, that is one helluva lot of sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
If we didn't have CD ripping, it's possible that we wouldn't have portable music file players right now. The labels fought internet distribution pretty hard, they weren't interested in advancing technology. We're still seeing that with videos, there are a lot of TV shows and movies that aren't legitimately available over the internet.
Yup, the alternative - as we have seen - is content providers losing control of their content through illegal torrents and software/firmware circumvention of their DRM. I can't believe tv and film producers are making exactly the same mistakes as the music industry - they have got to move with the times, or simply lose revenue when they could be exploiting and controlling alternative delivery methods right now. Let us have our media digitally and freely interchangeable between platforms - or we will do it ourselves.
Yes, but that's more or less beside the point. Microsoft's OS market share is a product of a series of historical accidents, which are very unlikely to be duplicated or repeated. The point is, the merit of their approach has never been a real issue. Irrespective of how they got where they are today, Microsoft's approach has always been fully geek compliant. They have always been more into feature cram than implementation, both in Windows and in their software. This is a distinguishing characteristic of their approach. Their products are no less Bill Gates personified than Apple's are Steve Jobs personified.
This is true though I think the two worlds are getting closer. There is a geek element to OSX now that you have Terminal and Unix foundations. With W7 it is clear that MS has realized the importance of simplicity. I have never tried a W7 machine but it is simpler, is it not? In the war between the two OS's theres always been the Apple argument that our GUI is more intuitive. I do believe that to be true but I also know that the most intuitive GUI is the one you are used to (having seen switchers struggle). Which proves that no GUI is very intuitive at all and which brings us nicely to the iPhone OS and the iPad. I am sure this is the way forward as the first truly intuitive GUI ever.
1) I don't understand this "it's just a big iPod Touch" meme. Watch the demo -- every application was significantly re-designed using an assortment of new multi-touch UI widgets. Most third party iPad applications are going to get the same treatment. They're two totally different environments at the application level. When you're dealing with a touchscreen interface there's not going to be a lot of variation in the hardware. It's just a touchscreen with a case around it. All the important differences are in software.
2) Just because the iPad exists doesn't mean you can't buy a net book if that's what you prefer. People seem to be very confused about this point. I personally prefer full sized laptops. I don't go around telling net book owners their net books are soooo crippled compared to my MacBook. It's their money -- they can buy whatever fits their needs.
3) Technology is reaching a much larger market these days than ever before. Geeks need to start accepting that not every single product is going to be designed for their specific extremist geek needs. That's just how it goes.
Exactly - people don't argue that a 12" portable television is the same product as a 60" HD plasma screen. Why draw this unnecessary parallel? Is a school-bus just an enlarged car - no - it's a different form factor for a different purpose and works in a different way, albeit with the same basic principles - steering wheel, accelerator - but all working slightly differently to perfectly complement the form factor.
The problem is not one of hardware, it's one of content. I genuinely don't see how anything has changed in content licensing/broadcasting since the introduction of the apple tv.
IMHO with the iPad, Apple is doing the wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say-no-more to content providers. Apple is effectively telling them all: "You've been knocking yourselves out trying to provide the best, free content over the Internet, because no one wants to pay for it. None of you has a viable business model for continuing this. But with the iPad, its proven e-store environment, its locked-down OS and hardware, and unique user experience, you've finally got an excuse to charge for all that great content."
Look to the purchase price of the iPad to be just the beginning of the total cost of ownership. If the iPad platform is a huge success, Apple's revenue from subscription services etc. might even reduce the iPad purchase price below the cost of manufacturing.
that he's been wrong so many times in the past, he's certainly at least a little wrong now. He was wrong about the iPhone and iPod too.
I think the only people in the tech industry have been wrong more often than Gates about the impact of Apple's work are Dvorak and Enderle... and that's saying something. You're in rare company there Billy!
Comments
Do you mean on the iPad? I haven't actually seen one but the keyboard looks good to me from afar. (its bigger) I would like to see the ability to customize the home screen with 'widgets', however. (iPad spaces?) Maybe that could appear and disappear with a swipe.
Yeah, the iPad. I expect that a lot of the big OS changes were left off the iPad to make the iPhone OS 4.0 in March(?) a great event.
LOL. I think if they banned members for saying fanboy half the forum would have been banned by now.
Add to that "troll" a certain user's favorite expression.
Notice how they started this flame war because I said something untowards SJ and his iPad. They rode this discussion right off the rails- diversionary tactics. And notice who started it all - he who has 14,000 posts.
Most consumers are not impressed with it either. Although the little fanboys here will try to claim it is the best thing since swiss cheese....too dumb to realize it is nothing more than an iPod Touch.
Really?
Well every real world potential consumer I speak to is sat with credit card in hand counting down the days. I'll think i'll save your post to textedit and post it back in june or july...
Your comment and the parallel drawn is, frankly, ridiculous. It's nothing more than iPod touch. Well I guess an iPhone is nothing more than iPod touch that happens to make calls - yet they aren't the same product.
Can I view a web page at 1024/768 on my ipod touch. Can I read a book on a decent size screen on an iPod touch? Can I run iWork on an iPod touch?
Really?
Well every real world potential consumer I speak to is sat with credit card in hand counting down the days. I'll think i'll save your post to textedit and post it back in june or july...
It's hard to debunk his statement since he says "most consumers" and doesn't qualify as you do. The iPod's worldwide sales still don't equal more than 50% (ie: most) of the US' population.
I'm sure the iPad will do well. The fact there are posters vehemently trolling the forums trying to say how it will fail but using the exact same talking points from the 2007 iPhone announcement proves to me it will be a relative success.
PS: I love the ones that say it will fail because it doesn't have a desktop OS on it, followed by a comment about how tablets have failed in general so Apple can't possibly succeed. It's like the brain can't connect thoughts sentence to sentence. Fun times!
I agree that the AppleTV has been a success in the nascent and lackluster media extender market but things have changed since it's arrival and the AppleTV has not. This last year the popular PS3, 360 and TiVo have stepped up their game to offer a lot of the features the AppleTV came with. Popcorn Hour and other media extenders are becoming popular, for good reason.
Unless you specifically want iTS access the AppleTV now offers little benefit over these other appliances. They aren't as simple as the AppleTV but the AppleTV fails in other areas they excel in. Favour is tipping toward them more each day.
I expect Apple to release another AppleTV this year. They can't drop the living room and the current model is using some old tech. The iPad's HW and OS (not the UI) looks like a pretty good and inexpensive fit for the next AppleTV.
I'd like to see an SDK for apps and an option for direct file access but I am not holding my breath on either of these.
The problem is not one of hardware, it's one of content. I genuinely don't see how anything has changed in content licensing/broadcasting since the introduction of the apple tv.
As long as content providers lock down content and don't allow ripping of DVDs, the apple TV can't perform the one function that would make it great. No change in design or software can overcome that. What we all want is to be able to legally stream content from our computers to the apple tv in any format, free of copy restriction that gets in the way and requires third party hacking software, or hacking the apple tv itself. Let's have an optical drive that enables you to insert your blu-ray or DVD and automatically have all the content and menus copied to a massive harddrive, and put all our physical media away in the loft with our CD collections.
The content producers simply aren't ready to let this happen, and Apple can't overcome that - neither can anybody else. It may be 'old tech', but there's no point trying to move to the next stage without the content to support it.
Well now that you ask... I know many people who are "comfortable" with Windows beacause they have to be... but absolutely no one that really "likes it"... or loves it. Not one person.
On the other hand, those that have switched to Apple devices, either at my behest or simply on their own... are always telling me how they "love their iPhone", or their new MB or MBP.
For many people, Windows is the only choice (business, games, and cheap). Again, it doesn't make using it any more pleasant and gratifying.
And just because Windows is the market-share and cost leader in computing devices, does NOT make them the best UI or user experience.... and I wouldn't say they "won" anything really. They simply are the GM of computer software.
Yes, but that's more or less beside the point. Microsoft's OS market share is a product of a series of historical accidents, which are very unlikely to be duplicated or repeated. The point is, the merit of their approach has never been a real issue. Irrespective of how they got where they are today, Microsoft's approach has always been fully geek compliant. They have always been more into feature cram than implementation, both in Windows and in their software. This is a distinguishing characteristic of their approach. Their products are no less Bill Gates personified than Apple's are Steve Jobs personified.
I like the look and performance of the iPad, but I'm a little concerned about the form factor. Everyone I see using a netbook/small notebook is sitting at a bar or table, or on the floor - they are not in a easy chair or couch. I don't think it will be very convenient to type into this device while looking down at the screen. We will have to use a separate stand/keyboard, but that just means carrying two things around.
Ray
Well, I guess people will have to move to a comfy chair then.
Since Ape first drew in the dirt, man has worked on a horizontal surface - cave wall paintings are all well and good, but the ink ran and the guys got tired arms, so man invented paper and put it on his desk and assumed a comfortable, ergonomic posture.
We need to get away from the strange concepts that the early days of computing have thrust upon us, and start to think different.
Really?
Well every real world potential consumer I speak to is sat with credit card in hand counting down the days. I'll think i'll save your post to textedit and post it back in june or july...
It's a good product in its own right, but I don't think the interest is _that_ broad. Didn't this site show the results of a survey that said 15% of the respondents were definitely going to buy? Something like half just weren't interested or didn't think they were going to buy. It's a good start and it's plenty enough to make a good market out of, but apparently, not everyone is convinced yet.
The problem is not one of hardware, it's one of content. I genuinely don't see how anything has changed in content licensing/broadcasting since the introduction of the apple tv.
As long as content providers lock down content and don't allow ripping of DVDs, the apple TV can't perform the one function that would make it great. No change in design or software can overcome that. What we all want is to be able to legally stream content from our computers to the apple tv in any format, free of copy restriction that gets in the way and requires third party hacking software, or hacking the apple tv itself. Let's have an optical drive that enables you to insert your blu-ray or DVD and automatically have all the content and menus copied to a massive harddrive, and put all our physical media away in the loft with our CD collections.
The content producers simply aren't ready to let this happen, and Apple can't overcome that - neither can anybody else. It may be 'old tech', but there's no point trying to move to the next stage without the content to support it.
If we didn't have CD ripping, it's possible that we wouldn't have portable music file players right now. The labels fought internet distribution pretty hard, they weren't interested in advancing technology. We're still seeing that with videos, there are a lot of TV shows and movies that aren't legitimately available over the internet.
1) I don't understand this "it's just a big iPod Touch" meme. Watch the demo -- every application was significantly re-designed using an assortment of new multi-touch UI widgets. Most third party iPad applications are going to get the same treatment. They're two totally different environments at the application level. When you're dealing with a touchscreen interface there's not going to be a lot of variation in the hardware. It's just a touchscreen with a case around it. All the important differences are in software.
2) Just because the iPad exists doesn't mean you can't buy a net book if that's what you prefer. People seem to be very confused about this point. I personally prefer full sized laptops. I don't go around telling net book owners their net books are soooo crippled compared to my MacBook. It's their money -- they can buy whatever fits their needs.
3) Technology is reaching a much larger market these days than ever before. Geeks need to start accepting that not every single product is going to be designed for their specific extremist geek needs. That's just how it goes.
We have no clue if the average user is going to have any interest in the iPad. We should at least wait until its been available for a while.
Actually we do, with several companies who have allowed customers to pre-order (well, ask to be notified as soon as the device is available for priority sales) effectively closing the books for their 'pre-ordering'.
I'd also be very interested to know how many people have registered interest on the apple web site for notification when the iPad is available for pre-order.
Speak to the average user on the street - you'll find a good percentage are very interested. All that remains to be seen is whether this interest is converted to sales.
'nuff said.
It's a good product in its own right, but I don't think the interest is _that_ broad. Didn't this site show the results of a survey that said 15% of the respondents were definitely going to buy? Something like half just weren't interested or didn't think they were going to buy. It's a good start and it's plenty enough to make a good market out of, but apparently, not everyone is convinced yet.
Well, 15% of respondents interested in definitely purchasing a product they've yet to see in the real world is a MASSIVE percentage. Even if 10% of consumers were interested, that is one helluva lot of sales.
If we didn't have CD ripping, it's possible that we wouldn't have portable music file players right now. The labels fought internet distribution pretty hard, they weren't interested in advancing technology. We're still seeing that with videos, there are a lot of TV shows and movies that aren't legitimately available over the internet.
Yup, the alternative - as we have seen - is content providers losing control of their content through illegal torrents and software/firmware circumvention of their DRM. I can't believe tv and film producers are making exactly the same mistakes as the music industry - they have got to move with the times, or simply lose revenue when they could be exploiting and controlling alternative delivery methods right now. Let us have our media digitally and freely interchangeable between platforms - or we will do it ourselves.
you're very wrong, in what you're saying with that picture, but the 2010 image made me laugh
apple's idea of evolution isn't oversizing their products
Yes, but that's more or less beside the point. Microsoft's OS market share is a product of a series of historical accidents, which are very unlikely to be duplicated or repeated. The point is, the merit of their approach has never been a real issue. Irrespective of how they got where they are today, Microsoft's approach has always been fully geek compliant. They have always been more into feature cram than implementation, both in Windows and in their software. This is a distinguishing characteristic of their approach. Their products are no less Bill Gates personified than Apple's are Steve Jobs personified.
This is true though I think the two worlds are getting closer. There is a geek element to OSX now that you have Terminal and Unix foundations. With W7 it is clear that MS has realized the importance of simplicity. I have never tried a W7 machine but it is simpler, is it not? In the war between the two OS's theres always been the Apple argument that our GUI is more intuitive. I do believe that to be true but I also know that the most intuitive GUI is the one you are used to (having seen switchers struggle). Which proves that no GUI is very intuitive at all and which brings us nicely to the iPhone OS and the iPad. I am sure this is the way forward as the first truly intuitive GUI ever.
A few points:
1) I don't understand this "it's just a big iPod Touch" meme. Watch the demo -- every application was significantly re-designed using an assortment of new multi-touch UI widgets. Most third party iPad applications are going to get the same treatment. They're two totally different environments at the application level. When you're dealing with a touchscreen interface there's not going to be a lot of variation in the hardware. It's just a touchscreen with a case around it. All the important differences are in software.
2) Just because the iPad exists doesn't mean you can't buy a net book if that's what you prefer. People seem to be very confused about this point. I personally prefer full sized laptops. I don't go around telling net book owners their net books are soooo crippled compared to my MacBook. It's their money -- they can buy whatever fits their needs.
3) Technology is reaching a much larger market these days than ever before. Geeks need to start accepting that not every single product is going to be designed for their specific extremist geek needs. That's just how it goes.
Exactly - people don't argue that a 12" portable television is the same product as a 60" HD plasma screen. Why draw this unnecessary parallel? Is a school-bus just an enlarged car - no - it's a different form factor for a different purpose and works in a different way, albeit with the same basic principles - steering wheel, accelerator - but all working slightly differently to perfectly complement the form factor.
The problem is not one of hardware, it's one of content. I genuinely don't see how anything has changed in content licensing/broadcasting since the introduction of the apple tv.
IMHO with the iPad, Apple is doing the wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say-no-more to content providers. Apple is effectively telling them all: "You've been knocking yourselves out trying to provide the best, free content over the Internet, because no one wants to pay for it. None of you has a viable business model for continuing this. But with the iPad, its proven e-store environment, its locked-down OS and hardware, and unique user experience, you've finally got an excuse to charge for all that great content."
Look to the purchase price of the iPad to be just the beginning of the total cost of ownership. If the iPad platform is a huge success, Apple's revenue from subscription services etc. might even reduce the iPad purchase price below the cost of manufacturing.
I think the only people in the tech industry have been wrong more often than Gates about the impact of Apple's work are Dvorak and Enderle... and that's saying something. You're in rare company there Billy!
image: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-co...Ci-700x583.png