Bill Gates unimpressed by Apple iPad

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  • Reply 241 of 410
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    ... Intuitive is word that gets thrown around a lot without being very well defined. I think your observation that intuitive is what you are used to, is quite fair. The implication is, that in order for people find a reason to change requires an approach which is far superior to the one they are currently used to. The iPhone succeeded because the UI experience with feature phones was so bad, it was relatively easy for Apple to show how it could be made substantially better. Whether Apple can duplicate this feat with the iPad remains to be seen.



    Your reason for the success of the iPhone is a little oversimplified but sure, I agree. Whether they can carry this over to the iPad is much more interesting. Personally I believe they can and will. But this is just the beginning and where it all gets complicated. I wonder if the iPad experience is so easy (successful) and satisfying for techno luddites, incompetents and complete beginners that they , and the rest of the world become used to and grow to love this simplicity, then what next? Can the model somehow be adapted to the desktop, or rather the mouse and keyboard model? Lets say for arguments sake there is a whole generation that has grown to love the iPhone/pad gui and literally know nothing else. Where will Apple take them? I remember at some point in the distant past Apple had a two or three tiered gui in order of complexity. They also have the widgets and dashboard at the moment (does anybody ever go to the dashboard?). Interesting times ahead for sure. Nothing will happen quickly and at this point nobody knows answer to your question - if Apple can duplicate the iPhone success with the iPad.
  • Reply 242 of 410
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Cool. Now, can we see actual numbers? After all, Norway has a bit bellow 5 million people all together - one mid-sized US city?



    In the last year or two we've seen more than half of Apple's revenue come from outside the US. As of last quarter The US was $6B while Europe was $5B with the remaining $4.5B coming from the rest of the world. European growth could push it past the US' revenue this year.
  • Reply 243 of 410
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    That would be cool, but I fear iPad hardware is nowhere powerful enough to process huge images - especially RAW images - in any really useful manner. That just by judging how fast (slow?) is processing of Nikon 6MP NEF images on quad core with 8GB of RAM.



    For that reason mostly I still carry laptop with me while travelling, but even with fully functional dual core laptop I usually do most basic things - backup images to the laptop, sort them to subfolders, eventually delete really bad ones. All the other adjustments will wait for quad core and big screen... \



    True. I am very curious to see just how powerful the A4 CPU/GPU really is once you go beyond Apple's demos. Keeping in mind that it's not just raw power, but how efficiently you use it. If the A4 is optimized to run things like Core Image, which I assume it is to run all the fancy UI widgets, then something like Aperture would also benefit greatly. Reports so far are that Aperture 3, just released, runs faster on Snow Leopard than on Leopard. So if the iPad OS (perhaps when iPhone OS 4.0 is released) is based on Snow Leopard, then that would also help.



    But I'm curious as to your impression of slow/fast, because my 8 MB 20D RAW images seem to process in a timely manner on my lowly MBP with 4 GB of RAM. Granted, I don't do a ton of post processing as I try to get the image right when the shutter releases. The biggest bottleneck is my MBP's slow hard drive, which wouldn't be an issue with the iPad because it's flash storage should be faster than a hard drive.



    I would agree that layering tons of adjustments and brushes on your image might be slow on an iPad, but how much of that type of PP are you going to be doing in the field? The ability to view, sort, and tag photos on the spot would be great. All of that only requires that you view the JPEG previews of your RAW images (which, granted, need to be generated when you import and that could be slow on the iPad). And that should be speedy, even with limited processing power. So based on your description of how you use your laptop in the field, an iPad would seem to meet the need and be smaller, lighter, with longer battery life. And Aperture's new project syncing/merging seems ready-made for an iPad to "check out" a project to take and share with a client at their location.



    Anyway...just kind of ranting at this point. But iAperture would be enough reason for me to get an iPad.
  • Reply 244 of 410
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    I'm arguing the point that he never had an idea, design or suggestion for something to be produced ever. Your original point was that he never designed or engineered anything, which is what I doubt. After over 30 years of being in business, I am quite sure he did get involved in something. He may not have programmed any single line of code, but that doesn't mean that he never had any input or ideas on products that was given to his goons and prototyped.



    Whether or not Steve Jobs actually wrote a program himself is completely irrelevant. In fact, history has shown again and again that Jobs' non programmer insight is his greatest asset. His ability to see how technology and people interact has been far more valueable than the insight of Bill Gates. In other words; Steve Jobs has been right about tech a lot more than Bill Gates has. That's the truth. Fact is, almost every product that Apple has released since Jobs' return has been a hit. The same cannot be said about Bill Gates.
  • Reply 245 of 410
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blue martian View Post


    Who is Bill Gates??? Are you talking about that guy who creates Windoz? (the Wind of Oz?) That OS that crashes every minute cause it's a virus' magnet? I heard it can automatically download like 200.000 viruses into your PC in like just a few days! Well, if you like Free stuff, you're in!

    Is it the same guy that recently decided to "clone" the Apple Store because he didn't think of it himself? Does Microsoft becoming the shadow of Apple? Maybe he should comment like "well the Apple store is nothing new really, it's just a store..." or " the Zunes is defiitely beter than the iPod..." Oh, by the way what happened to Windows Mobile?

    At least Windows 8 should be a more decent product as it is "influenced" by OS X.

    The iPad may not be reolutionary but Steve Jobs is getting the last important market with it: Books!!! And 140.000 Apps available right away, I doubt Microsoft can EVER beat that!!! Also, how can it be that Amazon is rethinking the Kindle in the wake of the iPad? (see AppleInsider) If it's that bad, how can Disney be So interested about this revolutionary device? (see AppleInsider).

    But Microsoft can create new awesome products, as far as Apple get the original idea... OK, the copies are cheaply made and never works very well but hey, it's Microsoft. I've heard they may come with a similar device as the iPad, but a little more complicated, adding a pen (that you don't need as God gave you ten fingers versus one pen!) and a keyboard (which by the way is available as an option for the iPad Mr Gates, please get informed before making ignorant comments). Possibilities are this "revolutionary" device has already a code name: the iProut.

    Well, the Dark Side has a price... and now a name...

    Hey, I just got a "revolutionary" idea for MIcrosoft's new slogan: "Why making things simple if you can make them complicated?"



    What a meaningless rant.
  • Reply 246 of 410
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Actually Gates and friends practically swindled some guy who developed DOS out of the OS for fifty grand, when Microsoft had a million dollar contract lined up with IBM. To his credit, he later hired the guy at Microsoft.



    Further, Jobs isn't a great engineering talent, but to say he never developed, engineered, or designed anything is a bit inaccurate. He played a heavy part in much of the development & design of Apple products. He also appears on patents, such as the original iMac.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    You do know Steve Jobs never developed, engineered, or designed anything right? Is he a hypocrite too for saying something isn't up to snuff?



    At least Gates actually designed, engineered, developed, SOMETHING!



  • Reply 247 of 410
    irelandireland Posts: 17,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fredsedzed View Post


    I see huge potential for the iPad, but not out of the starting blocks. When post-1.0 versions offer USB input, play Flash, and run multiple apps concurrently, it'll be a winner.



    Apple is going a different route. They will add multitasking over time probably, but I don't see USB.
  • Reply 248 of 410
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    He never said it would not be a success. I'd argue he's entitled to an opinion just like everyone else. Quit being so defensive, guys.



    P.S. Slash Lane is the best tech news writer on AI.



    Yes, insecurity here is most surprising. Sometimes, I think I can almost smell fear... which is so ridiculous considering how well Apple is doing.



    BG admitting iPad is success even before it started shipping would be as probable as BG admitting he believes SJ is new earthly incarnation of Jesus Christ. Not going to happen. Why encouraging people to buy competitor's product? If/when iPad becomes success, BG will play sport and congratulate Apple... but that is not going to be anything more than stating the obvious.



    And why are you people so surprised? Has SJ ever complemented anything from competition - anything at all?
  • Reply 249 of 410
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macnyc View Post


    Actually he stands on his head and mops his kitchen floor every day.



    I don't think he is actually doing that work himself. Someone else is moving him around the floor.
  • Reply 250 of 410
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Cool. Now, can we see actual numbers? After all, Norway has a bit bellow 5 million people all together - one mid-sized US city?



    mid-sized? I think only New York has more than 5 million in its city limits...
  • Reply 251 of 410
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Cool. Now, can we see actual numbers? After all, Norway has a bit bellow 5 million people all together - one mid-sized US city?



    What? Chicago and Los Angeles don't even have 5 million people. What 'mid-sized' cities in the US have around 5 million people?
  • Reply 252 of 410
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post


    Thank you- and no amount of spin here or from Apple will change that. It's basiclly an extension of the iTunes store (an iPod) and, even worse, a hobby exactly like the Apple TV (another iPod) was when it was released. And look where that is today.

    Now I will be accused of being negative and a troll but I could care less.



    If you could care less, then that begs the question, how much less could you care and of course, being in a position to care less implies you do care to some extent, otherwise you couldn't care less, now could you.



    So if you don't mind my asking, how much do you care and how much less could you care, being as you could care less?
  • Reply 253 of 410
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    Your reason for the success of the iPhone is a little oversimplified but sure, I agree. Whether they can carry this over to the iPad is much more interesting. Personally I believe they can and will. But this is just the beginning and where it all gets complicated. I wonder if the iPad experience is so easy (successful) and satisfying for techno luddites, incompetents and complete beginners that they , and the rest of the world become used to and grow to love this simplicity, then what next? Can the model somehow be adapted to the desktop, or rather the mouse and keyboard model? Lets say for arguments sake there is a whole generation that has grown to love the iPhone/pad gui and literally know nothing else. Where will Apple take them? I remember at some point in the distant past Apple had a two or three tiered gui in order of complexity. They also have the widgets and dashboard at the moment (does anybody ever go to the dashboard?). Interesting times ahead for sure. Nothing will happen quickly and at this point nobody knows answer to your question - if Apple can duplicate the iPhone success with the iPad.



    It's a bit of back to the future. The Mac UI as it was originally conceived was far more simplified than it became ultimately, even by the time the Mac was finally released. If Jef Raskin were alive today, I wonder what he'd think of the iPhone and iPad UI. He was an advocate of simplicity, a concept that pretty much got lost in the effort to make computers all-purpose devices. I suspect he'd feel somewhat vindicated. But as you say, I think many if not most are missing the potential significance of the iPad. It could change the way people think about how they interface with computing devices. That could be next wave.
  • Reply 254 of 410
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    Steve Jobs is the 'Marketing Guy' that the OP was claiming Gates to be, are you really arguing that point?



    In the end it doesn't mater what Steve is other than "successful". Whether he coded it himself or inspired someone else to carry out his vision, his mark on the world of technology is self evident.



    i'm not saying Microsoft hasn't had a mark on the world of technology, and you can get into value arguments as to the good or bad of the respective companies impact all you want - but to imply that Steve is less important because he isn't a "true geek" is... well, flat out stupid.



    And completely missing the point. Like most tech pundants, including Gates. The iPad will succeed because of all thing things the digerati are decrying it for not having - it's not aimed at them, it's aimed at people like my dad (or heck, me when I get home at night). An information appliance you pick up and it just works for a set number of tasks. It isn't meant to replace a general purpose computer, but augment one - yet for some people like my dad, it will be the only "computing device" they need.



    It's brilliantly positioned and will do just fine despite all the hysterics to the contrary...
  • Reply 255 of 410
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    If Jef Raskin were alive today, I wonder what he'd think of the iPhone and iPad UI. He was an advocate of simplicity, a concept that pretty much got lost in the effort to make computers all-purpose devices.



    Raskin was smart. But I think the Canon Cat and "leap" keys proved he wasn't the ultimate authority on user interface design.



    What is certainly true is that the iPad is much closer to a true computing appliance than any other device I can think of.



    C.
  • Reply 256 of 410
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gts_mac View Post


    nah...he only scribbles all those zeros in his net worth figure.



    It amazes me to this day how people discount and devalue what the MOST SUCCESSFUL (Read: Richest) MAN IN THE WORLD thinks.



    They say: "Nah, ignore him, he's a fool."



    When one understands how many of those zero's were acquired, I think the appropriate weight to his comments are then applied.



    Quote:

    Ah, no sorry, you're the fool. Next.



    Looking at just one aspect of a person to gauge credibility is the truly foolish act.
  • Reply 257 of 410
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    I agree, which is one of the reasons I am so disappointed that the iTouch interface was shoehorned into the new form factor.



    Shoehorned? Did you even watch the introduction video? It's not just a bigger iPod Touch (which further calls into question the use of the term "shoehorn") - there are substantive changes to the touch UI to take advantage of the larger screen size, and I have a feeling we have only seen a sampling of what Apple has up their sleeve.



    Quote:

    I was expecting something innovative.



    You were expecting unicorns and free pony's, no doubt. Care to define what "innovative" means to you?



    Hint: A list of features isn't innovative
  • Reply 258 of 410
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    It fits in a bag better than any laptop.



    It is thinner but other dimensions don't really differ much from average 10" netbook. I tend do prefer netbook thickness as a price for much better protected screen, plus a benefit of keyboard... but that might just be my old-fashioness.



    Quote:

    It provides a way better browsing experience than any small laptop.



    No, not for me. While I agree need for Flash might be personal, I definitely need it today.



    Quote:

    It provides a better ebook reading experience than any laptop.



    True. I'm not sure if it is really better than iPhone Stanza - for text books (novels), I'd prefer iPhone pocketability. For graphics-rich content, no contest.



    Quote:

    It has a better touchscreen than any currently available laptop.



    True.



    Quote:

    It integrates music playback features better than any small laptop.



    Matter of taste. iTunes, Winamp, WMP, VLC play audio fine. Some will play other media as well. iPad is also too big to be portable player and replace iPod/iPhone. For in-house use, well... I've noticed lots of my friends are moving toward music videos instead of just audio.



    Quote:

    It's way better at accelerometer-based tasks than any laptop.



    True, if you need such feature.



    Quote:

    It syncs your data with your main computer more easily than any laptop.



    Eh? I always thought iTunes is limiting my media sharing a lot. I guess this is also matter of taste, but I prefer to drag and drop whatever I want from my home server over my home wireless, than to sync. Additionally, I don't have to worry about media formats.



    Quote:

    It's a better virtual musical instrument than any laptop.



    Um... OK... (?)



    Quote:

    It's a better game machine than any netbook.



    How about we see games for iPad first? I don't have impression it is more game-capable than, say, dual core Atom with Ion graphics, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to available games. PS2 was hardware wise much inferior to original XBOX, yet ended up much superior platform overall.



    Quote:

    It's better for watching a movie during a cramped commute than any laptop.



    Better form, but without DivX/XviD support, functionality is far from netbook.



    Quote:

    It's a better device for anyone who needs to use it while standing (i.e. doctors) than any laptop.



    Definitely.



    Quote:

    It's a better kitchen wall or refrigerator front internet device than any laptop.



    Ouch... never thought about Internet device on kitchen wall. I'm getting old!



    Quote:

    It's a better textbook replacement than any laptop.



    We have already covered that, haven't we?



    Quote:

    I'm sure I could think of more. I'm sure you could deny a few of the above, but if you're being honest, you have to agree that most of them are pretty clear advantages for the iPad.



    I am being honest, and I am sure you are as well. It is just that our expectations, based on our habits (and lots of other factors) are not the same.
  • Reply 259 of 410
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Reading is one example. Air Hockey. Digital Board Games. Internet in your hands etc. This device has to be used to be understood, I have been blessed with imagination--so it's easier for me.



    The premise here is that because the whole interface is a screen that can display anything, the device "becomes" the thing it's doing. Whereas for example: a laptop does more, but it can't help like always "feel" like a laptop. It sounds like a subtle difference, but I believe it's all the difference in the world.



    If you're playing Air Hockey the tablet is an Air Hockey table - if you're reading a book the tablet is a book - if you're playing poker the tablet is a poker table - If you're watching a movie the table is the movie - if you're surfing the web the tablet is the web. It's not just an illusion that works, but one that people will understand. It's none of these right click, left click unnatural abstraction metaphors - you actually "touch stuff". When you tap a button with your hand it does "it", and because the screen is the device it feels better.



    Don't get me wrong, laptops aren't going anywhere, but times are changing.



    Some great point there.
  • Reply 260 of 410
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    Yes, look where the apple tv is today - 6.5 million units sold, the biggest single selling device of it's type. Don't believe the media, the average owner of this device loves it - that it is 'crippled' is the fault of copyright owning content providers.



    And an extension of the largest media platform on the planet, what a terrible idea. It will never catch on.



    Seriously?!



    Um, you are actually trying to be serious? As far as media streaming devices go, I think the X-Box 360 sales dwarf the Apple TV sales, and the PS3 sales dwarf the Apple TV sales.
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