You do know Steve Jobs never developed, engineered, or designed anything right? Is he a hypocrite too for saying something isn't up to snuff?
At least Gates actually designed, engineered, developed, SOMETHING!
You do know you're wrong, right? I suppose not, but then I'd assumed you'd have not shot your mouth off if you had been in NeXT/Apple Engineering design labs where prototyping took/takes place.
Software programming is NOT ENGINEERING. Get it through your brain.
Bill Gates oversaw his products and prototypes while driving the direction he saw for each product.
Paul Allen was the software head and founder of Microsoft [Bill's Boss] before they screwed him out of it. He's the programming genius.
Steve Jobs does know how to write some ObjC and he's got decades of industrial design input.
He also designed the NeXT Computer Inc Robotic Assembly Plant. It was his vision to the core. He picked out the materials, the assembly systems he wanted installed and how they all worked together.
He hired the talent to assemble it under his specs.
Did he come up with the design of the iMac? Yes. He took his look to Ive and they co-designed it down to the finished product.
He drove it just like he drove every design at NeXT and every design at Apple with Ive refining his vision.
Did Ive actually Engineer anything? No. He's an Industrial Designer. He's akin to the Architect who then passes it off to the Structural Engineer who invalidates his work throughout the process until it's structurally sound.
Did Ive design the implementation of any IC boards? No. He designed a layout of how he wanted the basic Mac Pro tower to look and worked with Engineers to refine the look--all then refined by Jobs.
People call him a visionary because he's got his hands into how he wants all the products to look and work.
Far be it for Mr Gates to praise the competition, but a keyboard would ruin the premise of the device. The sense of touch makes for an impressive UI, and idea behind how people should interact with their devices. While it is lacking in features, I reckon using it will be an enjoyable experience. I'm looking forward to seeing what developers do with it though.
It isn't meant to replace a general purpose computer, but augment one - yet for some people like my dad, it will be the only "computing device" they need.
For an awful lot of people it will be the only 'computer' they'll need at home. Not just the 'moms' and 'dads', either. I bring my laptop home ever day but by the time I have time to collapse on the couch most days all I would need is the pad. I'd say 80% of my home computing does not require a powerful machine.
This will just add weight to the device - might as well stick to the netbook format combining guts with keyboard.
I couldn't disagree more. There are plenty of times where I don't need, nor do I want a keyboard. If I do need or want a real physical keyboard, with the iPad I can optionally have it. It's up to me. With a netbook, I have no choice - it's always there. And 99% of the time it's a pretty inferior keyboard and not much of an advantage.
Give that, your comment about an optional case is even more ironic and silly...
Quote:
Touch controls do not equal typing comfortably.
Yeah, well there are very few netbooks where having physical keys are much of an advantage either. I like the touch keyboard on my iPhone - now that I am used to how autocorrection works, I can type out messages and notes pretty efficiently The extra space on the iPad will be most welcome. In landscape mode I think touch typing, after a little practice, will be fairly easy. Just like the Palm Pre - for all the fuss over having "real" keys, once it shipped for all but users with the smallest hands they keyboard was basically unusable.
That's the key word - useable. If the right compromises are made, usability doesn't suffer. The problem with netbooks is everything on them is whacked with no focus on overall usability - it's all about size and cost. I would laugh when the whole netbook thing was ramping up and these techies on podcasts would gush about how great netbooks were and then go on and on about all the ways they upgraded them - for what they spent when they got done they could have had a real laptop with a real processor and a really useful keyboard. Talk about ironic...
But the entry price was cheap
And people joke about Jobs and Apple selling style over substance? Sheesh, the whole netbook phenomenon in general is just ridiculous. Yes, people who like to hack around love them, but the average consumer tends to get frustrated with them - I've dealt with the fallout of them with friends and family so I know the difference between geek lust and everyone else.
Everyone else is going to eat up the iPad - esp. when they start circulating and people see what the experience is about. Netbooks don't stand a chance.
In regards to the point regarding how the iPad will fare for gaming compared to a netbook, it's not about processing power. It's about how much more engaging a game becomes when you interact with it on a device like the iPad. Horsepower, FPS, etc. is beside the point, assuming of course that the iPad is powerful enough to run a particular game in a reasonable manner. Then again, being as the only games you'll be able to play on this device will have been designed either for weaker devices like the Touch/iPhone or specifically for the iPad, chances are the hardware will be up to the task.
Does that same average person read books, email, have an iPod touch and browse the web? No, no interest at all.
Average geek does all that. Average Joe (which I believe is more of Average Person definition) doesn't really read much nowadays, TV is major source of information and entertainment. Likewise for the others.
We are talking about Homer Simpson type of average person.
For an awful lot of people it will be the only 'computer' they'll need at home. Not just the 'moms' and 'dads', either. I bring my laptop home ever day but by the time I have time to collapse on the couch most days all I would need is the pad. I'd say 80% of my home computing does not require a powerful machine.
You'll still need a computer, portable or desktop, for that other 20 per cent. But the advantage of the iPad is that since it's not designed to do that other 20 per cent of work, few compromises are needed in the form of a heavier form factor or poorer battery life.
Also, the iPad is really platform independent. A PC owner could supplement their PC with the iPad so you don't have to buy an Apple to complete the product chain.
I'm an Apple fan, but I wasn't blown away by the iPad Keynote.
However, I get what Apple is doing. Apple is building a product family that encompasses a number of categories, but that doesn't overload on SKUs.
The iPad is designed to scale. It's a generic device that can be either a very simple tool (read: reader) or a companion device to other more sophisticated products. Not everyone will want one or need one, but for those people who need that device between a phone and computer, Apple will have the best product in that category.
As for Mr. Gates comments...
Who wants a stylus? Who wants a fixed keyboard that will determine orientation and break up the clean lines of the screen. Who wants a fixed keyboard that has little parts that break or that catch moisture or debris?
Whenever I hear Mr. Gates or Mr. Ballmer comment on an Apple product, they always try to cast it as something that is poorly conceived or unlikely to gain any traction. They never point to something they have that is better. They never demonstrate why they are leading the industry in new directions.
But I'm curious as to your impression of slow/fast, because my 8 MB 20D RAW images seem to process in a timely manner on my lowly MBP with 4 GB of RAM. Granted, I don't do a ton of post processing as I try to get the image right when the shutter releases. The biggest bottleneck is my MBP's slow hard drive, which wouldn't be an issue with the iPad because it's flash storage should be faster than a hard drive.
Ah, yes - we get spoiled easily
I shoot a lot and usually return from a week-long trips with around 1000 NEFs.
Just importing and creating previews in Lightroom takes enough time to motivate me to minimize Lightroom and do something else - or simply leave computer alone to do it. Likewise exporting to JPG. Oh, it doesn't take that long (I'll actually stopwatch it next time) but as I run process and check on progress bar, I always decide it is not worth sitting and just waiting for it to finish
Another interesting question is how fast is iPad's flash disk. If it is something like iPhone 3Gs speed, I'd say it is still much slower than HDD, even 5400rpm... especially write speeds. If it is fast as proper SSD, that would be different story...
Are you claiming that 90% or so of desktop/laptop users are geeks?
Or would you allow that many more types of folks, other than geeks, also are comfortable with the MS "approach"?
Or what?
Or what: Until the iPad they really didn't have a viable alternative. Linux? Mac OSX? In their own ways, more of the same. What is unique about the iPad is for the first time you have a device that hit's 98% of what casual users want without all the "techie overhead" of a general purpose computer, but's not overly restricted like previous attempts at appliance computing (WebTV anyone?).
It has balance and usability. In short it's perfect for the majority of people who just want to do certain things and not worry about the care and feeding of a "computer". That is why the iPad is significant. The fact that people like you don't get it just re-enforces how well Apple has hit the mark with the iPad.
So to prove that nerds aren't the only one's who are unenthused by the iPad, you mirrored a nerdcomic. My GOD - that's profound.
The more I hear nerds bitch and moan - the more I want this thing. If people who think Linux Ubuntu installations are a good time can't stand the iPad, then I want it even more.
But hey - they were right before - their Blackberry just PWNED the iPhone. Oh ya - instant FAIL. LOLcats. Pedobear. 4chan. Whatever.
Uh, I don't think average person cares much about technology at all.
But that's exactly what excites me about the iPad for my parents. All they want to do is read email, visit a few web sites and my mother want's quicken. That's pretty much it! I don't see my mom giving up her iMac, but I see the iPad as being perfect for my father who mainly wants to send email to his friends and occasionally read some web sites. Well, that and read newspapers or magazines - he actually asked me about electronic books on the iPad - you could have knocked me over with a feather. When my 72 year old father starts asking about ebooks and electronic newspapers on an iPad that had only been announced for two days (and I hadn't talked with them about it yet) you know Apple is getting broad penetration.
I think far more "average" people get it than the tech press wants to admit.
I wonder what's going to happen when all the people who have never seen an IPAD start to see them on television shows. I see shows like Bones and CSI New York pull out a tablet PC to demonstrate something to their co-workers. They generally show the actor holding the tablet while some graphic display is flashing on the screen. But they never really show them actively using it in a meaningful way.
Now along comes the iPad. Producers, directors and actors see this sexy, sleek device with over 140,000 apps available for it out the gate. They see their friends and family start to use them. They start to use them in their shows. Everyone starts to ask what is it they are using. Apple gets free advertising.
The point I'm trying to make is I have seen tablets used in TV shows for years and I have never felt the urge to get one. They looked bulky and clumsy and difficult to use. I have no reservations about the iPad. I immediately want one. It just feels right and I haven't held one yet.
So if TV shows start using them in their programs and this makes this device more popular, I wonder what Bill Gates would think about this? After all, his tablets were seen for years on TV shows and nothing seriously happened in sales. If the iPad becomes the trendy device to show off in your TV show, that development could not and would not make him happy. It's difficult to predict the future. But I'm willing to put up my vision of it against Bill's vision when I say the iPad will be a huge success.
The biggest bottleneck is my MBP's slow hard drive, which wouldn't be an issue with the iPad because it's flash storage should be faster than a hard drive.
I just ordered http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/inter..._SSD_Sandforce for my Mac Pro. If it works as well a the reviews say it does (esp. with OSX's lack of TRIM support) I will be getting one for my MBP - along with the kit to boot the optical drive and move my hard drive over in it's place for data file storage.
Quote:
I would agree that layering tons of adjustments and brushes on your image might be slow on an iPad, but how much of that type of PP are you going to be doing in the field? The ability to view, sort, and tag photos on the spot would be great.
No doubt! For rapid tagging and initial sorting, the iPad would be huge. Esp. if you attached audio notes
Quote:
Anyway...just kind of ranting at this point. But iAperture would be enough reason for me to get an iPad.
"Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."
Here's to hoping - that's a tantalizing vision! Hopefully it won't take 3 years like Aperture 3 did - although I do think much of Aperture 3 was hung up by SL. It is indeed an interesting an exciting time to be into digital photography!
Just importing and creating previews in Lightroom takes enough time to motivate me to minimize Lightroom and do something else
Building previews isn't fast with Aperture, either. I shudder to think how long it's going to take to upload and build previews after my upcoming 3 week trip to New Zealand with my new 18 MP 7D. Especially because I'm not taking a laptop with me and will have to upload them all when I get home.
On the one hand, it'd be nice to have something as small/lightweight as an iPad to have all that done by the time I get home. On the other hand, the thought of uploading that much data over USB/dock is kinda painful, too. (Not to mention that the iPad's camera connection is probably going to be pretty slow compared to my ExpressCard reader.)
Comments
A few points:
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/124447/wApCi-700x583.png
I had pretty much given up on this thread until I saw these two posts. Made it all worthwhile. Thanks guys!
You do know Steve Jobs never developed, engineered, or designed anything right? Is he a hypocrite too for saying something isn't up to snuff?
At least Gates actually designed, engineered, developed, SOMETHING!
You do know you're wrong, right? I suppose not, but then I'd assumed you'd have not shot your mouth off if you had been in NeXT/Apple Engineering design labs where prototyping took/takes place.
Software programming is NOT ENGINEERING. Get it through your brain.
Bill Gates oversaw his products and prototypes while driving the direction he saw for each product.
Paul Allen was the software head and founder of Microsoft [Bill's Boss] before they screwed him out of it. He's the programming genius.
Steve Jobs does know how to write some ObjC and he's got decades of industrial design input.
He also designed the NeXT Computer Inc Robotic Assembly Plant. It was his vision to the core. He picked out the materials, the assembly systems he wanted installed and how they all worked together.
He hired the talent to assemble it under his specs.
Did he come up with the design of the iMac? Yes. He took his look to Ive and they co-designed it down to the finished product.
He drove it just like he drove every design at NeXT and every design at Apple with Ive refining his vision.
Did Ive actually Engineer anything? No. He's an Industrial Designer. He's akin to the Architect who then passes it off to the Structural Engineer who invalidates his work throughout the process until it's structurally sound.
Did Ive design the implementation of any IC boards? No. He designed a layout of how he wanted the basic Mac Pro tower to look and worked with Engineers to refine the look--all then refined by Jobs.
People call him a visionary because he's got his hands into how he wants all the products to look and work.
It isn't meant to replace a general purpose computer, but augment one - yet for some people like my dad, it will be the only "computing device" they need.
For an awful lot of people it will be the only 'computer' they'll need at home. Not just the 'moms' and 'dads', either. I bring my laptop home ever day but by the time I have time to collapse on the couch most days all I would need is the pad. I'd say 80% of my home computing does not require a powerful machine.
This will just add weight to the device - might as well stick to the netbook format combining guts with keyboard.
I couldn't disagree more. There are plenty of times where I don't need, nor do I want a keyboard. If I do need or want a real physical keyboard, with the iPad I can optionally have it. It's up to me. With a netbook, I have no choice - it's always there. And 99% of the time it's a pretty inferior keyboard and not much of an advantage.
Give that, your comment about an optional case is even more ironic and silly...
Touch controls do not equal typing comfortably.
Yeah, well there are very few netbooks where having physical keys are much of an advantage either. I like the touch keyboard on my iPhone - now that I am used to how autocorrection works, I can type out messages and notes pretty efficiently The extra space on the iPad will be most welcome. In landscape mode I think touch typing, after a little practice, will be fairly easy. Just like the Palm Pre - for all the fuss over having "real" keys, once it shipped for all but users with the smallest hands they keyboard was basically unusable.
That's the key word - useable. If the right compromises are made, usability doesn't suffer. The problem with netbooks is everything on them is whacked with no focus on overall usability - it's all about size and cost. I would laugh when the whole netbook thing was ramping up and these techies on podcasts would gush about how great netbooks were and then go on and on about all the ways they upgraded them - for what they spent when they got done they could have had a real laptop with a real processor and a really useful keyboard. Talk about ironic...
But the entry price was cheap
And people joke about Jobs and Apple selling style over substance? Sheesh, the whole netbook phenomenon in general is just ridiculous. Yes, people who like to hack around love them, but the average consumer tends to get frustrated with them - I've dealt with the fallout of them with friends and family so I know the difference between geek lust and everyone else.
Everyone else is going to eat up the iPad - esp. when they start circulating and people see what the experience is about. Netbooks don't stand a chance.
quit hijacking threads with this. you are resorting to what you are 'concerned' about. thanks.
Actually, I think he is spot on and definitely not alone. And for the real irony, you just did the same thing where a PM would have sufficed
Does that same average person read books, email, have an iPod touch and browse the web? No, no interest at all.
Average geek does all that. Average Joe (which I believe is more of Average Person definition) doesn't really read much nowadays, TV is major source of information and entertainment. Likewise for the others.
We are talking about Homer Simpson type of average person.
For an awful lot of people it will be the only 'computer' they'll need at home. Not just the 'moms' and 'dads', either. I bring my laptop home ever day but by the time I have time to collapse on the couch most days all I would need is the pad. I'd say 80% of my home computing does not require a powerful machine.
You'll still need a computer, portable or desktop, for that other 20 per cent. But the advantage of the iPad is that since it's not designed to do that other 20 per cent of work, few compromises are needed in the form of a heavier form factor or poorer battery life.
Also, the iPad is really platform independent. A PC owner could supplement their PC with the iPad so you don't have to buy an Apple to complete the product chain.
However, I get what Apple is doing. Apple is building a product family that encompasses a number of categories, but that doesn't overload on SKUs.
The iPad is designed to scale. It's a generic device that can be either a very simple tool (read: reader) or a companion device to other more sophisticated products. Not everyone will want one or need one, but for those people who need that device between a phone and computer, Apple will have the best product in that category.
As for Mr. Gates comments...
Who wants a stylus? Who wants a fixed keyboard that will determine orientation and break up the clean lines of the screen. Who wants a fixed keyboard that has little parts that break or that catch moisture or debris?
Whenever I hear Mr. Gates or Mr. Ballmer comment on an Apple product, they always try to cast it as something that is poorly conceived or unlikely to gain any traction. They never point to something they have that is better. They never demonstrate why they are leading the industry in new directions.
<plonk>
That's your third plonk and an excellent idea.
<plonk>!
But I'm curious as to your impression of slow/fast, because my 8 MB 20D RAW images seem to process in a timely manner on my lowly MBP with 4 GB of RAM. Granted, I don't do a ton of post processing as I try to get the image right when the shutter releases.
Ah, yes - we get spoiled easily
I shoot a lot and usually return from a week-long trips with around 1000 NEFs.
Just importing and creating previews in Lightroom takes enough time to motivate me to minimize Lightroom and do something else - or simply leave computer alone to do it. Likewise exporting to JPG. Oh, it doesn't take that long (I'll actually stopwatch it next time) but as I run process and check on progress bar, I always decide it is not worth sitting and just waiting for it to finish
Another interesting question is how fast is iPad's flash disk. If it is something like iPhone 3Gs speed, I'd say it is still much slower than HDD, even 5400rpm... especially write speeds. If it is fast as proper SSD, that would be different story...
Are you claiming that 90% or so of desktop/laptop users are geeks?
Or would you allow that many more types of folks, other than geeks, also are comfortable with the MS "approach"?
Or what?
Or what: Until the iPad they really didn't have a viable alternative. Linux? Mac OSX? In their own ways, more of the same. What is unique about the iPad is for the first time you have a device that hit's 98% of what casual users want without all the "techie overhead" of a general purpose computer, but's not overly restricted like previous attempts at appliance computing (WebTV anyone?).
It has balance and usability. In short it's perfect for the majority of people who just want to do certain things and not worry about the care and feeding of a "computer". That is why the iPad is significant. The fact that people like you don't get it just re-enforces how well Apple has hit the mark with the iPad.
mid-sized? I think only New York has more than 5 million in its city limits...
Ouch, I should refresh my geography knowledge
Somehow I thought NY, LA, SF, Chicago... are nowadays orbiting toward 10 mils.
What? Chicago and Los Angeles don't even have 5 million people. What 'mid-sized' cities in the US have around 5 million people?
Err... Metropolis? Gotham City?
My bad.
So to prove that nerds aren't the only one's who are unenthused by the iPad, you mirrored a nerdcomic. My GOD - that's profound.
The more I hear nerds bitch and moan - the more I want this thing. If people who think Linux Ubuntu installations are a good time can't stand the iPad, then I want it even more.
But hey - they were right before - their Blackberry just PWNED the iPhone. Oh ya - instant FAIL. LOLcats. Pedobear. 4chan. Whatever.
Uh, I don't think average person cares much about technology at all.
But that's exactly what excites me about the iPad for my parents. All they want to do is read email, visit a few web sites and my mother want's quicken. That's pretty much it! I don't see my mom giving up her iMac, but I see the iPad as being perfect for my father who mainly wants to send email to his friends and occasionally read some web sites. Well, that and read newspapers or magazines - he actually asked me about electronic books on the iPad - you could have knocked me over with a feather. When my 72 year old father starts asking about ebooks and electronic newspapers on an iPad that had only been announced for two days (and I hadn't talked with them about it yet) you know Apple is getting broad penetration.
I think far more "average" people get it than the tech press wants to admit.
Now along comes the iPad. Producers, directors and actors see this sexy, sleek device with over 140,000 apps available for it out the gate. They see their friends and family start to use them. They start to use them in their shows. Everyone starts to ask what is it they are using. Apple gets free advertising.
The point I'm trying to make is I have seen tablets used in TV shows for years and I have never felt the urge to get one. They looked bulky and clumsy and difficult to use. I have no reservations about the iPad. I immediately want one. It just feels right and I haven't held one yet.
So if TV shows start using them in their programs and this makes this device more popular, I wonder what Bill Gates would think about this? After all, his tablets were seen for years on TV shows and nothing seriously happened in sales. If the iPad becomes the trendy device to show off in your TV show, that development could not and would not make him happy. It's difficult to predict the future. But I'm willing to put up my vision of it against Bill's vision when I say the iPad will be a huge success.
The biggest bottleneck is my MBP's slow hard drive, which wouldn't be an issue with the iPad because it's flash storage should be faster than a hard drive.
I just ordered http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/inter..._SSD_Sandforce for my Mac Pro. If it works as well a the reviews say it does (esp. with OSX's lack of TRIM support) I will be getting one for my MBP - along with the kit to boot the optical drive and move my hard drive over in it's place for data file storage.
I would agree that layering tons of adjustments and brushes on your image might be slow on an iPad, but how much of that type of PP are you going to be doing in the field? The ability to view, sort, and tag photos on the spot would be great.
No doubt! For rapid tagging and initial sorting, the iPad would be huge. Esp. if you attached audio notes
Anyway...just kind of ranting at this point.
"Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."
Here's to hoping - that's a tantalizing vision! Hopefully it won't take 3 years like Aperture 3 did - although I do think much of Aperture 3 was hung up by SL. It is indeed an interesting an exciting time to be into digital photography!
Just importing and creating previews in Lightroom takes enough time to motivate me to minimize Lightroom and do something else
Building previews isn't fast with Aperture, either. I shudder to think how long it's going to take to upload and build previews after my upcoming 3 week trip to New Zealand with my new 18 MP 7D.
On the one hand, it'd be nice to have something as small/lightweight as an iPad to have all that done by the time I get home. On the other hand, the thought of uploading that much data over USB/dock is kinda painful, too. (Not to mention that the iPad's camera connection is probably going to be pretty slow compared to my ExpressCard reader.)
Dammit, you are ruining my iPad buzz.