MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series

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  • Reply 401 of 450
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    You seem to be stuck looking at mobile interfaces through desktop coloured glasses. The entire paradigm of files and folders was pioneered and polished by Apple. Opting for an interface that goes away from a hierarchal display of applications, files and folders doesn't make it 'dumbed down'...it means they feel that a single level navigation system fits better for mobile devices.



    It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.
  • Reply 402 of 450
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.



    There is room for improvement. There are concepts from the desktop that would work on mobile devices. Does the choice of a single level app launcher make it 'dumbed down'? hardly.
  • Reply 403 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.



    This wasn't an issue with v1.0 which only had the one page. With v2.0 did have apps but going through a few pages wasn't a big deal. v3.0 added the search, which is useful, and 2 extra pages even though the actual number of apps you can add is unlimited, but I suspect v4.0 will add an even better method. I wouldn't be surprised to finally see a hierarchal setup next month. Perhaps even smart folders.
  • Reply 404 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Let me set you straight: Apple takes telephone capability out of the iPhone software, doesn't incorporate Flash or multitasking (two of the things Apple-haters have been hammering the iPhone and the forthcoming iPad for lately), AND the whole thing won't ship for another 2 or 3 months (provided it doesn't get behind schedule), and THIS is supposed to be "innovation"?!? Seriously?



    Color me unimpressed with the 'Pad as well.



    Hey, it takes time to inflate iPhone. If you do that too quickly, cracks might appear



    Just kiddin'.
  • Reply 405 of 450
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Before I got my iPhone, I was under the impression that Apple was the king of the UI. But Springboard (again, IMO) sucks big time. I had better app launchers a decade ago on my PalmOS devices. .





    I think that APple were taken aback by the success of the SDK and App Store ( remember that they didnt have an DSK at launch - they seemed to be promoting web apps). So yes, springboard is real good for about two pages of apps. Simple. But it degenerates badly after that.



    Now you can always search by scrolling left, but nevertheless I am sure they will probably do some grouping in OS 4.0.
  • Reply 406 of 450
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    Quote:

    They tend to confuse 'poorly designed' with 'advanced'.



    Yep. And when they learn the bad UI of windows or the new mobile ( atrocious btw) they are now "smarter" than the "dumb" Apple users.



    Dumb Apple users can write complex Unix scripts in Terminal.app ( this is possible also on the iPhone).



    Unix scripts are way past the ability of the mediocrities who have come to grips with a registry.



    so if they dont want a " toy " - use OS X - a complex Unix based OS.
  • Reply 407 of 450
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    Yep. And when they learn the bad UI of windows or the new mobile ( atrocious btw) they are now "smarter" than the "dumb" Apple users.



    Which parts of the Windows UI and WP7S are atrocious?
  • Reply 408 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wil View Post


    Guys, Game changer proclamations or proclamations of Massive Fail on devices that will not be out yet for two months or 10 months are truly pathetic. What may be good on a demo unit might not be good when people start buying a production unit 2 months or ten months from now. Right now, everything about the Windows Phone 7 are smoke and mirrors, same with the iPad, iPhone 4G and iPhone OS4, same with the next Goggle Phone. To be a True game changer, have the damn product out in the wild and we can discuss all about on how awesome or failure the said device one year after they are realeased.



    So true.
  • Reply 409 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359245,00.asp



    "The phones will be owned by OEMs, and you'll see different form factors and choices," Woodman said.



    Which by default nullifies any real advantage this device (devices?) could have had.



    If I understood correctly, there will be some solid guidelines. Screen resolution and aspect ratio, processing power and graphics, interface (3 buttons). Difference might boil to case shape, colours, material; battery size/life, swappable or not; screen technology (OLED, AMOLED...); brand, of course.



    If executed correctly, it will not be different than iPhone OS challenge with different screen sizes and hardware between 2G, 3G, 3Gs, iPad and incoming iPhone 4 (which might end up with different screen and rest of hardware compared to 3Gs).
  • Reply 410 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


    Just because the Zune does not sell as many units as the iPod does not make it unsuccessful. If that is your rational then Apple is very unsuccessful to Microsoft since MS has 97% of the market.



    From that comparison it almost sounds like Zune is premium market share for MP3 players?
  • Reply 411 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    No, no it's not. It only got the windows branding but it's Zune. And that is made by a totally different team.

    They finally did what they should done in the first place which was fire the windows mobile team and let the Zune team take over.



    This is an excellent product and I can only hope they execute properly on this one as opposed to Palm's very bad handling of the Pre launch.



    Oh how I wishhhhhhhh that Microsoft gets gutsy and actually come out with that Courier....running windows phone 7. I only wished they handed rebranded it windows "phone". What if they wanted to use the OS on devices other than a phone?



    If they were to put this OS on a tablet I would buy it 10 times faster than I would an iPad.



    Speaking of which, I have a suspicion (at least I hope) that the iPhone OS 4.0 will be very similar and is what the iPad should really have been running in the first place.



    I'd really be surprised if MS doesn't come with some sort of tablet based on this. After both Apple and Google are expanding their phone platforms to tablets, it is almost given.



    I wouldn't be surprised if the end of this year doesn't bring us both phone and tablet. Considering that phone is announced 9 months in advance, I wouldn't be surprised if there is something else in the sleeve.



    Add to that iPhone 4 OS and, presumably, new iPhone device, iPad's take-off and whatever Android update comes from Google... this year will be brilliantly gadget-centric.
  • Reply 412 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    http://www.riagenic.com/archives/249



    http://www.neowin.net/news/ex-micros...in.net+News%29



    Ex-Microsoft employee compares Windows Phone 7 to Vista



    By Tom Warren



    Scott Barnes, formerly a Microsoft Rich Platform Product Manager (WPF & Silverlight), has voiced his opinions on the Windows Phone 7 user interface (UI).



    Barnes covers various topics of thought on the Windows Phone 7 announcements and admits when he initially saw the early specs, whilst he was working at Microsoft, he was "a little jaded with the whole level of commitment to the UX." He compares the new UI to that of the iPhone:



    "the UI is trying a little to hard to do the opposite of the iPhone, like it?s a challenge they need to rise up against. Examples like no Icons, panning up/down instead of left / right for content etc seems to pack a little too much anti-iPhone."



    Barnes also feels the Windows Phone 7 launch is similar to Vista. "This is the Windows Vista launch, as after some code resets and downward pressure from above this is almost exactly the same internal conditions Windows Vista team had before their launch, 'get it to market, get it fast and we?ll come back around for the bits we wanted to put in place'."



    After playing with a Windows Phone 7 series device I have similar concerns about the user interface. It's fast and gives you a quick overview of information but having to "Pivot" (slide) through panels of information isn't natural and could easily cause usability issues. Sliding to different parts of content is fine in principle, providing you know there's more content to slide to and you have a preview or understanding of what content you can slide to in either direction. I feel that Windows Phone 7 doesn't address this and buries options and content too far into what is referred to as a "Hub".



    Microsoft switched their strategy for Windows Mobile approximately two years ago when they decided to "reset". Similar to the Longhorn (Vista) reset and subsequent development of Windows 7, Windows Mobile internal groups went through restructuring and a series of changes designed to improve the development process. I can't help but feel despite this effort, and the tasks involved, that it could be too late. The UI is basic and doesn't offer anything really compelling that makes you want to purchase a Windows Phone 7 device yet. The integration with web services is fantastic and a great step in the right direction but the UI is lacking somewhat. HTC spent years covering up the UI problems in Windows Mobile and Microsoft seems to have addressed this by ensuring every part of the OS now looks the same and functions the same. The problem is by doing this they have lost a great UI that they could have embraced and built upon in partnership with HTC. It's still not fully clear whether HTC will bring a cut down version of Sense to Windows Phone 7. The company could a Start Screen tile or Custom Hub. Loking at Windows Phone 6.5 with the Sense UI and comparing this to Windows Phone 7, I don't get the feeling of "wow" or usability that I get with the HTC Sense bar or impressive weather animations. The rest of the Windows Mobile 6.5 operating system underneath isn't as consistent however, Windows Phone 7 fixes that issue.



    Despite my UI reservations, Microsoft has many months until Windows Phone 7 will hit the market. We know very little about how applications will interface with the operating system and which developers plan to create Windows Phone 7 apps. The juicy details of how Windows Phone 7 will position itself in the market won't arrive for another few weeks until MIX 2010 in March. Meanwhile Apple is likely to react to the announcements with its own plans for the iPhone OS 4.0 and next generation iPhone device due in June/July. If Apple has some interesting changes to their iPhone OS and impressive hardware then Microsoft could be on the back foot before Windows Phone 7 Series devices have even shipped.







    And now that one ex-employer has said that, we can all calmly go to sleep. All sorted.



    But what about that ex-Apple employer who sad he never had or used iPhone, and doesn't worry about it? Shall we sleep on that, too?
  • Reply 413 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Don't blame me because you communicate no better than an unloved 10yo with ADHD. Instead of your "I didn't mean that" posts, how about actually using your big boy words and saying what you mean.





    [CENTER]"Look at me! Look at me!"



    Note: If you continue to be caustic and abusive to everyone I'll continue to put the smack down on you.[/CENTER]



    Well... you made some threats against his arse, man...
  • Reply 414 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Your claims were that it dumbed down, in the sense that it was too easy to use, i.e. your example that your neighbour with down syndrome would easily use it. This doesn't imply anything to do with missing feature, but instead appears to be a complaint about ease of use of the interface itself.



    Are there missing feature? Yes, of course. Most have little to do with ease of use. The most glaring have mostly been added (CnP, tethering, VOIP on 3G) and had nothing to do with ease of use.



    Which features/functions in particular are missing that you feel were left out in order to make the device easier to use and so dumbed down?



    The inability to choose a better icon. The inability to rename icons. The inability to arrange icons where you want them. The inability to arrange icons alphabetically. The inability to leave spaces between icons. The inability to group similar icons into folders. Indeed, the inability to substitute a competent app launcher in place of the dumbed-down Springboard.



    The inability to run chosen software in the background. The inability to install software not pre-approved by our iNanny. The inability to delete pre-installed shovelware.



    This is all off the top of my head.
  • Reply 415 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.



    The entire serial-access paradigm of the iPhone drives me nuts. Everything from setting time on the clock to launching an app is done in a serial access manner, instead of a random-access manner.



    It is an OK way to choose amongst a limited number of choices, but it is not scalable.
  • Reply 416 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    This wasn't an issue with v1.0 which only had the one page. With v2.0 did have apps but going through a few pages wasn't a big deal. v3.0 added the search, which is useful, and 2 extra pages even though the actual number of apps you can add is unlimited, but I suspect v4.0 will add an even better method. I wouldn't be surprised to finally see a hierarchal setup next month. Perhaps even smart folders.



    We expected that a better UI would be introduced for the 'Pad, but it didn't happen. I am skeptical that they will make the 'Pad UI obsolete before it is even launched. I expect that there will be few major improvements to the iOS UI for a LONG time.
  • Reply 417 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post




    Now you can always search by scrolling left, but nevertheless I am sure they will probably do some grouping in OS 4.0.



    My take on that is that iOS has a lousy GUI, so they added a command-line interface in an attempt to fix it. IMO, the expectation that typing a memorized app title is a fix to a broken GUI is a step backwards.
  • Reply 418 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    We expected that a better UI would be introduced for the 'Pad, but it didn't happen. I am skeptical that they will make the 'Pad UI obsolete before it is even launched. I expect that there will be few major improvements to the iOS UI for a LONG time.



    Better doesn't work here. The UI was altered to work for a 10" multitouch display. They use column view not modal for setting and made evolved popover for the more intrinsic iPad-specific apps.



    What are you expecting? A new type face? A different arch on the window bubbles? Something that looks so alien and different that it makes basement dwelling geeks spooj their panties? All that is silly.
  • Reply 419 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    What are you expecting? A new type face? A different arch on the window bubbles? Something that looks so alien and different that it makes basement dwelling geeks spooj their panties? All that is silly.



    I expected a brilliantly designed interface that added most of the missing functionality, all in an easy-to-use and intuitive manner. I guess I expected way too much.



    What are you expecting from iOS 4.0?
  • Reply 420 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    I expected a brilliantly designed interface that added most of the missing functionality, all in an easy-to-use and intuitive manner. I guess I expected way too much.



    What are you expecting from iOS 4.0?



    It is only iPhone OS 3.2 which is for the iPad development but not the iPhone. Something is off here. Even the iPad simulator says iPhone Simulator.



    A couple things to consider... The iPad OS is clearly unique and diverse enough from iPhone OS 3.1 to be its own OS. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone OS 4.0 creates a formal deviation known as iPad OS 1.0.



    Also consider that making too many visual changes aren't good for business unless your current model is failing, which this isn't. You have to consider that most people don't like change and if it's too different they may not be able to use it anymore or will simply lose internet.



    Finally, there is also the need for Apple to build intelligently, which means they can't travel down unchartered areas too often and then backtrack if it doesn't work out. That has hurt them before. Customers lose faith.



    I think it's very possible that 3.2 was just a placeholder for the time being to get devs working on the iPad apps otherwise I see no point in even showing us the device, expect for getting more publishers on board. I think 4.0 will have more user interface changes that you expect but I wouldn't expect anything so sweeping that you'll have to relearn the way it works all over again.





    Specifically, there are too many things I want from 4.0, but that doesn't mean I'll throw a fit if they don't appear. Either the device fits my needs or it doesn't. If jailbreaking can offer those features, like backgrounding and rich notifications then I'll do it as I see fit.
    • Intelligent background apps that even my mother can get her head around

    • A rich notification system on the lock screen

    • Complete notification history accessible from any home screen

    • Hierarchal folder system for apps

    • Smart folder option for apps (eg: new apps, games, utilities, weblinks)

    • Method to see how often you use an app, last time you used it, etc. (Similar to Windows Program Manager. Besides helping users organize, it would help Apple to not keep pushing out updates for apps people no longer want/use but have forgotten about)

    • Concatenation of Mail accounts

    • Safari page search

    • Stocks app to ticker on Lock Screen

    • Weather app to finally get GPS capability

    • New Mail to get more than just a vibration.

    • Smart Mail notifications (eg: notify with popover if certain senders or topics come through)

    • Auto-VM for certain phone numbers (eg: Ones that aren't in your contacts go straight to VM)

    • Three-finger swipe of Safari page to switch pages instead of hitting the pages button.

    • Deletion and edit of songs in iPod app, or at least a way to tag a song so you can alter it back in iTunes. (You can already delete videos and podacsts in iPod app)

    • See the iPod music summary (eg: format, bit rate, EQ)

    • Dvorak keyboard layout (more for iPad)

    • Ability for SDK and web devs to choose which keyboard to use (no caps, cap lock on, number pad first, characters greyed out for different fields)

    • More space for storing voicemails

    • Ability to record phone calls with a touch of a button (likely the last thing to happen on this list)

    • Enable disk use

    Those are just a few of the things I would like to see, but that doesn't mean I expect to see them.
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