MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series

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  • Reply 421 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It is only iPhone OS 3.2 which is for the iPad development but not the iPhone. Something is off here. Even the iPad simulator says iPhone Simulator.



    A couple things to consider... The iPad OS is clearly unique and diverse enough from iPhone OS 3.1 to be its own OS. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone OS 4.0 creates a formal deviation known as iPad OS 1.0.



    Also consider that making too many visual changes aren't good for business unless your current model is failing, which this isn't. You have to consider that most people don't like change and if it's too different they may not be able to use it anymore or will simply lose internet.



    Finally, there is also the need for Apple to build intelligently, which means they can't travel down unchartered areas too often and then backtrack if it doesn't work out. That has hurt them before. Customers lose faith.



    I think it's very possible that 3.2 was just a placeholder for the time being to get devs working on the iPad apps otherwise I see no point in even showing us the device, expect for getting more publishers on board. I think 4.0 will have more user interface changes that you expect but I wouldn't expect anything so sweeping that you'll have to relearn the way it works all over again.



    All very interesting points.
  • Reply 422 of 450
    If you haven't already, I suggest reading through this Gizmodo article on the strategy of WP7:



    http://gizmodo.com/5473947/microsoft...one-7-strategy



    Agree or not with WP7, it's a very good read and breaks WP7 down into all the major parts that make up the whole.



    There's definitely potential for something huge here. If MS pulls it off right...
  • Reply 423 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    There's definitely potential for something huge here. If MS pulls it off right...



    I agree. This is the first time we've seen MS think outside the box in a long time.
  • Reply 424 of 450
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    I personally think this is a pretty ingeneous way of displaying more information than a pocketable screen size allows. One wide band of all the information related to the subject (apps, pictures, messages, etc), divided up into screen-width chucks that's easy to read an manage.



    It's an extension and improvement of what the Android home screen is right now. 3, 5, or even 7 screens side-by-side with all the information that you want. As you scroll to the left or right, you'll notice the background shifts slightly in that direction.



    I've always figured MS had something up their sleeves when they used this style on the ZHD. Like you said, it makes me want to scroll in the direction the text is cut off in to see what's there when it becomes revealed.



    Yes, I was also thinking Zune HD was sort of test platform. Not test in terms of commercial success, but test in terms of user experience. That might be a reason why MS didn't make even an effort to cover other markets on launch - it was like volume-limited beta program.



    Because they must have got W7M at the time in some reasonably mature stage of development. They wanted to see how people will react to UI. Reaction was, in general, positive, so they proceeded with project. If reaction was bad, they would (possibly?) scrap UI and go for something else. Much as we know (or don't know), they could have more than one UI competing for the title.
  • Reply 425 of 450
    definitely potential for something huge....
  • Reply 426 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post
    • Intelligent background apps that even my mother can get her head around

    • A rich notification system on the lock screen

    • Complete notification history accessible from any home screen

    • Hierarchal folder system for apps

    • Smart folder option for apps (eg: new apps, games, utilities, weblinks)

    • Method to see how often you use an app, last time you used it, etc. (Similar to Windows Program Manager. Besides helping users organize, it would help Apple to not keep pushing out updates for apps people no longer want/use but have forgotten about)

    • Concatenation of Mail accounts

    • Safari page search

    • Stocks app to ticker on Lock Screen

    • Weather app to finally get GPS capability

    • New Mail to get more than just a vibration.

    • Smart Mail notifications (eg: notify with popover if certain senders or topics come through)

    • Auto-VM for certain phone numbers (eg: Ones that aren't in your contacts go straight to VM)

    • Three-finger swipe of Safari page to switch pages instead of hitting the pages button.

    • Deletion and edit of songs in iPod app, or at least a way to tag a song so you can alter it back in iTunes. (You can already delete videos and podacsts in iPod app)

    • See the iPod music summary (eg: format, bit rate, EQ)

    • Dvorak keyboard layout (more for iPad)

    • Ability for SDK and web devs to choose which keyboard to use (no caps, cap lock on, number pad first, characters greyed out for different fields)

    • More space for storing voicemails

    • Ability to record phone calls with a touch of a button (likely the last thing to happen on this list)

    • Enable disk use

    Those are just a few of the things I would like to see, but that doesn't mean I expect to see them.



    That stuff all looks great.



    But what I asked is nat what you would like to see, but instead, what you expect to see.



    My expectations for the iPad were clearly too high.
  • Reply 427 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    That stuff all looks great.



    But what I asked is nat what you would like to see, but instead, what you expect to see.



    My expectations for the iPad were clearly too high.



    For each or those items I have a 0% to 100% rating on actual expectation but it's based on a gut feeling with limited data based on Apple's history and what other mobile OSes are doing so it doesn't amount to much.
  • Reply 428 of 450
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Specifically, there are too many things I want from 4.0, but that doesn't mean I'll throw a fit if they don't appear. Either the device fits my needs or it doesn't. If jailbreaking can offer those features, like backgrounding and rich notifications then I'll do it as I see fit.
    • Intelligent background apps that even my mother can get her head around

    • A rich notification system on the lock screen

    • Complete notification history accessible from any home screen

    • Hierarchal folder system for apps

    • Smart folder option for apps (eg: new apps, games, utilities, weblinks)

    • Method to see how often you use an app, last time you used it, etc. (Similar to Windows Program Manager. Besides helping users organize, it would help Apple to not keep pushing out updates for apps people no longer want/use but have forgotten about)

    • Concatenation of Mail accounts

    • Safari page search

    • Stocks app to ticker on Lock Screen

    • Weather app to finally get GPS capability

    • New Mail to get more than just a vibration.

    • Smart Mail notifications (eg: notify with popover if certain senders or topics come through)

    • Auto-VM for certain phone numbers (eg: Ones that aren't in your contacts go straight to VM)

    • Three-finger swipe of Safari page to switch pages instead of hitting the pages button.

    • Deletion and edit of songs in iPod app, or at least a way to tag a song so you can alter it back in iTunes. (You can already delete videos and podacsts in iPod app)

    • See the iPod music summary (eg: format, bit rate, EQ)

    • Dvorak keyboard layout (more for iPad)

    • Ability for SDK and web devs to choose which keyboard to use (no caps, cap lock on, number pad first, characters greyed out for different fields)

    • More space for storing voicemails

    • Ability to record phone calls with a touch of a button (likely the last thing to happen on this list)

    • Enable disk use

    Those are just a few of the things I would like to see, but that doesn't mean I expect to see them.



    All good. I'd add:
    • "Toggle" widgets that can appear as icons to turn features on\\off (i.e. 3G, WiFi, Location etc)

    • Scheduled switch on\\off for features. i.e. I don't need WiFi\\location\\3G on between 12pm and 6am.

    • Ability to choose different tones for all notifications!

    • Backup of game saves

    • A "game mode" that closes off everything and disables calls.

  • Reply 429 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    All good. I'd add:
    • "Toggle" widgets that can appear as icons to turn features on\\off (i.e. 3G, WiFi, Location etc)

    • Scheduled switch on\\off for features. i.e. I don't need WiFi\\location\\3G on between 12pm and 6am.

    • Ability to choose different tones for all notifications!

    • Backup of game saves

    • A "game mode" that closes off everything and disables calls.




    I can't comment on the games since I'm not really a gamer, but I really like the other ideas.



    It would be great not to have to go into Settings for these common switches, like WiFi. I'm not sure how well the edge of the touchscreen works or if it's a feasible idea, but if they can make the icons up there touch sensitive for drop down menus that would be perfect for me.
  • Reply 430 of 450
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    The inability to choose a better icon. The inability to rename icons. The inability to arrange icons where you want them. The inability to arrange icons alphabetically. The inability to leave spaces between icons. The inability to group similar icons into folders. Indeed, the inability to substitute a competent app launcher in place of the dumbed-down Springboard.



    The inability to run chosen software in the background. The inability to install software not pre-approved by our iNanny. The inability to delete pre-installed shovelware.



    This is all off the top of my head.



    I certainly hope those were off the top off your head.



    Most of your complaints centre around superficial UI elements. Since one doesn't have access to a file system, renaming of files becomes sort of a perplexing request. Actually, your complaint was the inability to rename icons. Do you rename icons on other OSes much? Strange.



    Let's looks at the rest:

    The inability to choose a better icon.

    Yup, that would certainly make it a more intelligent UI.



    The inability to arrange icons where you want them. The inability to arrange icons alphabetically. The inability to leave spaces between icons. The inability to group similar icons into folders.

    So, really what you are looking for is Explorer/Finder, with windowed, columnar views. Hardly an optimal interface for small screens. I would also like some sort of grouping, but it is hardly 'dumbing down' to omit it.



    Indeed, the inability to substitute a competent app launcher in place of the dumbed-down Springboard.

    There are improvements that could be made. Repeatedly using silly adjectives like 'dumbed-down' still doesn't make expand your point.



    The inability to run chosen software in the background. The inability to install software not pre-approved by our iNanny. The inability to delete pre-installed shovelware.



    Absolutely, completely unrelated to your assertion that the UI is 'dumbed down'.





    In the end, most of your complaints seem to have more to do with preferences for different UI choices than what Apple choose, that have little to do with 'dumb' or not, or the ability to tweak. None of them really, other than perhaps grouping and the app launcher, would really seem to making the interface more powerful.



    I completely agree with you that the UI could be improved. I think it is juvenile to repeatedly call it dumbed down, simply because your tastes are different. Sort of like my wife's 12 year old nephew who calls everything he doesn't like 'gay' or 'retarded'. You are left wondering when he'll actually put some thought into explaining his opinions instead of goofy insults.
  • Reply 431 of 450
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Do you rename icons on other OSes much? Strange.



    All the time. I've never really needed to on the iPhone though because I tend to look for the icon graphic rather than the text, which is lucky because a lot of apps do have silly cut-off names.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    In the end, most of your complaints seem to have more to do with preferences for different UI choices than what Apple choose, that have little to do with 'dumb' or not, or the ability to tweak.



    It's a touchy subject. Apple does purposefully block user configuration options. Some people see this as a good thing and say that it is a "clean" or "easy to use" interface. Others get upset at Apple's perceived lack of trust to actually know what is good for oneself or, if they are more abrasive, say that it is "dumbed down". I'm not sure where the truth lies, I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are.
  • Reply 432 of 450
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    All the time. I've never really needed to on the iPhone though because I tend to look for the icon graphic rather than the text, which is lucky because a lot of apps do have silly cut-off names.



    I assume you actually rename files and not icons. Not that you couldn't rename an icon file, but since you can't access files on the iPhone, renaming files is a strange request...unless you has access to files. Sort of like you don't 'run' icons, you run apps.



    As for renaming apps, which seems to be his actual request, how often do you really rename exe's or .apps?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    It's a touchy subject. Apple does purposefully block user configuration options. Some people see this as a good thing and say that it is a "clean" or "easy to use" interface. Others get upset at Apple's perceived lack of trust to actually know what is good for oneself or, if they are more abrasive, say that it is "dumbed down". I'm not sure where the truth lies, I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are.



    Locked down is distinctly different than dumbed down. Whether it is the UI, System behavior, the SDK or allowed apps, exerting draconian control, as I feel they do, isn't 'dumbing it down', it is denying choice.



    The original complaint is that the UI is so easy to use that a person with down syndrome could use it, hence it must be dumbed down. Not only does that seem to be simply trolling without thinking through the complaint, it doesn't take into account the difficulty in creating a UI that anyone can quickly understand. That is hardly dumbed down...in fact the more intuitive, easy and clean an interface is actually speaks more to the intelligence that went into designing it. It take a lot more to make an interface easy to use and understand.



    I commend Apple for the advances in mobile interfaces they have brought to market. At the same time, I hope for them to loosen their overly tight restrictions and controls over how we are able to use our devices. Most of the restrictions/controls that people complain about have nothing to do with ease of use/dumbing down of the UI, but instead have to do with functionality and features that are/were missing or prohibited for reasons completely unrelated to ease of use (i.e. tethering, CnP, fully compliant Blutooth, VOIP over 3G, ridiculously banned apps, etc).



    iGenious' only complaints that validly related to UI decisions that hinder productivity and so could be considered a 'dumbing down' of the UI would be his request for app grouping and springboard.
  • Reply 433 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Do you rename icons on other OSes much? Strange. [/QUOTE]



    No, not much. Indeed, rarely. But on the iPhone, the Boston Business Journal app is called "Boston". I have referred to the paper as the BBJ for decades. I would like to rename the icon BBJ. But that seems impossible on the iPhone.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Let's looks at the rest:

    The inability to choose a better icon.

    Yup, that would certainly make it a more intelligent UI.



    I would choose a different adjective. But yes, it would make for a better user experience.



    If you don't like dumbed-down, how about simplistic? Or lacking in features?
  • Reply 434 of 450
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post




    No, not much. Indeed, rarely. But on the iPhone, the Boston Business Journal app is called "Boston". I have referred to the paper as the BBJ for decades. I would like to rename the icon BBJ. But that seems impossible on the iPhone.



    I would choose a different adjective. But yes, it would make for a better user experience.



    If you don't like dumbed-down, how about simplistic? Or lacking in features?



    "More customizable or tweak friendly" might be more appropriate. Apple has always been resistant to customizations, themes, tweaks, rightly or wrongly. They like to lock things down, even in the UI. I don't always agree with these decisions, but it is their way.



    Simplified does have to mean, nor does it even generally mean dumbed down. Keeping a UI clean and simple can take a lot of work and effort. You generally seem to simply have different tastes for what the UI should look like and allow and quite rightfully so. But the difference in taste doesn't have to mean resorting to ill-thought out comments calling it downed down. The simplicity of the UI is a big part of what makes it advanced.
  • Reply 435 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Simplified does have to mean, nor does it even generally mean dumbed down. Keeping a UI clean and simple can take a lot of work and effort. You generally seem to simply have different tastes for what the UI should look like and allow and quite rightfully so. But the difference in taste doesn't have to mean resorting to ill-thought out comments calling it downed down. The simplicity of the UI is a big part of what makes it advanced.



    It is my impression that lots of stuff is left off the iDevices due to the fear that naive users could get into trouble. At least, that is what I am told here.



    If, indeed, the reasons for simplification are to protect the unsophisticated, or the naive, or the simply stupid, then I believe my choice of descriptor is apt.
  • Reply 436 of 450
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    I assume you actually rename files and not icons.



    You assume incorrectly By "renaming an icon" I mean to "edit the text that appears below the icon".



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Locked down is distinctly different than dumbed down.



    Like I said, it's a perspective thing. I'm not trying to argue the point with you because I don't have an opinion either way, but I do know plenty of people that have the same ideas as iGenius and I understand where their opinions are coming from. "Dumbed down" is such an ambiguous term that debating over the definition would just go around in circles.



    At the end of the day all I'm hoping for is a really good v4.0 iOS update.
  • Reply 437 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Simplified does have to mean, nor does it even generally mean dumbed down.



    Absolutely. Seemingly, Apple's solution is not elegance, but instead, lopping off functionality.
  • Reply 438 of 450
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    At the end of the day all I'm hoping for is a really good v4.0 iOS update.



    Me too. But then again, I was hoping for a really good tablet computer too.



    I'm not getting my hopes up again, not when it comes to Apple. Now I expect 4.0 to include more eye candy and less useful stuff. I don't expect the iOS to catch up to Android anytime soon.
  • Reply 439 of 450
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    Quote:

    IMO, the expectation that typing a memorized app title is a fix to a broken GUI is a step backwards.



    Not at all, even with folders ( which I agree with) scrolling left and typing will be faster than burrowing down. Certainly that will be the case for large numbers of apps.



    What I would like to see would be the ability to automatically sort the front page by use ( at the user's request). After all the front page is pretty much the quickest access point, and i dont use the calculator app much, and I am prepared to search for it. I bet they will bring that in.



    Solipism's idea that there will be a 4.0 before , or just after the release of the iPad is almost certainly true. There isnt enough there.



    That said some of what he wants is in 3.2. NDA precludes talk about what exactly but it is available in MR Google.
  • Reply 440 of 450
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    What I would like to see would be the ability to automatically get sort the front page by use. After all the front page is pretty much the quickest access point, and i dont use the calculator app much, and I am prepared to search for it. I bet they will bring that in.



    Or at least a smart folder system for certain app categories, like the last 15 used (or the last 15 used that aren't on the 1st Home Page), smart folders for each App Store category (eg: Games, Sports, News, Productivity) and others, like apps you've never used or haven't used in a long time. These could be turned on/off and configured through Settings and then you could move them to the place you want them on the Home Pages.
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